[Movie] The Martian

Mark Friedenbach · 2015-06-09 14:14:25

This one totally slipped under my radar. Looks like we're going to have a Martian blockbuster this November:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue4PCI0NamI

louis · 2015-06-09 19:14:04

Looks like a load of old hokum, but anything that might raise public interest in Mars is good.

Mark Friedenbach wrote:

This one totally slipped under my radar. Looks like we're going to have a Martian blockbuster this November:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue4PCI0NamI

Terraformer · 2015-06-10 09:15:28

Well, one of the character is going to die, we know that from the casting list.

I should probably read the book first.

RobertDyck · 2015-06-10 14:06:10

I saw the trailers, and was really excited! An astronaut on Mars, has to learn to survive living by his wits. Using what he has to live off the land on Mars. We have had long discussions on this forum, how to do that. It sounds great! Exciting! Then louis had to poke holes in it.

Ok, the trailer has some issues. The trailer says the astronaut has to survive 4 years in a hab designed for 31 days. How could any Mars mission last only 31 days? Orbits of planets Earth and Mars around the Sun are what they are. You can't change planetary orbits. How would any mission plan work with only 31 day surface stay? Then there's a Hollywood excuse for an early evacuation. How do you depart early? Again planetary orbits are what they are, you can't leave until the launch window. Then there's the hab itself. The trailer shows a cylindrical space with a dome ceiling about the size of the upper floor of Mars Direct, but with no walls or partitions. And that's just one room, there are at least two tunnels shown to even more space. How big is the Mars surface thing? Then there's the interplanetary transit vehicle (ITV). Can you say "Battlestar Galactica"?

louis · 2015-06-10 14:41:35

RobertDyck wrote:

I saw the trailers, and was really excited! An astronaut on Mars, has to learn to survive living by his wits. Using what he has to live off the land on Mars. We have had long discussions on this forum, how to do that. It sounds great! Exciting! Then louis had to poke holes in it.
Ok, the trailer has some issues. The trailer says the astronaut has to survive 4 years in a hab designed for 31 days. How could any Mars mission last only 31 days? Orbits of planets Earth and Mars around the Sun are what they are. You can't change planetary orbits. How would any mission plan work with only 31 day surface stay? Then there's a Hollywood excuse for an early evacuation. How do you depart early? Again planetary orbits are what they are, you can't leave until the launch window. Then there's the hab itself. The trailer shows a cylindrical space with a dome ceiling about the size of the upper floor of Mars Direct, but with no walls or partitions. And that's just one room, there are at least two tunnels shown to even more space. How big is the Mars surface thing? Then there's the interplanetary transit vehicle (ITV). Can you say "Battlestar Galactica"?
http://chapters.marssociety.org/winnipeg/MartianITV.jpg

The storyline didn't sound too inspiring to me.

I think if I was looking at a similar script I'd go for a small starter colony - based loosely on Musk's ideas - with some rogue member who is out to sabotage things...maybe a religious nutjob with an ideological objection, or maybe working for a rival outfit. Anyway...I think that would be more interesting than just watching one guy try to survive. The truth about Mars is that without technology you can't survive. So it would just be a question of much technology he has access to. It's not really the stuff of drama.

Mark Friedenbach · 2015-06-10 18:59:29

Robert, 30 days is pretty standard for an opposition-class trajectory mission.

Terraformer · 2015-06-11 03:22:41

It seems to be based on NASA's fantasy mission.

Louis, it's based on a book...

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-09-06 16:32:13

louis wrote:

RobertDyck wrote:
I saw the trailers, and was really excited! An astronaut on Mars, has to learn to survive living by his wits. Using what he has to live off the land on Mars. We have had long discussions on this forum, how to do that. It sounds great! Exciting! Then louis had to poke holes in it.
Ok, the trailer has some issues. The trailer says the astronaut has to survive 4 years in a hab designed for 31 days. How could any Mars mission last only 31 days? Orbits of planets Earth and Mars around the Sun are what they are. You can't change planetary orbits. How would any mission plan work with only 31 day surface stay? Then there's a Hollywood excuse for an early evacuation. How do you depart early? Again planetary orbits are what they are, you can't leave until the launch window. Then there's the hab itself. The trailer shows a cylindrical space with a dome ceiling about the size of the upper floor of Mars Direct, but with no walls or partitions. And that's just one room, there are at least two tunnels shown to even more space. How big is the Mars surface thing? Then there's the interplanetary transit vehicle (ITV). Can you say "Battlestar Galactica"?
http://chapters.marssociety.org/winnipeg/MartianITV.jpg

The storyline didn't sound too inspiring to me.
I think if I was looking at a similar script I'd go for a small starter colony - based loosely on Musk's ideas - with some rogue member who is out to sabotage things...maybe a religious nutjob with an ideological objection, or maybe working for a rival outfit. Anyway...I think that would be more interesting than just watching one guy try to survive. The truth about Mars is that without technology you can't survive. So it would just be a question of much technology he has access to. It's not really the stuff of drama.

I've read so many novels like that, its so formulaic and boring. Have you actually read the book? I have, there is no villain, the hero is trying to survive the consequences of an accident, no one is actually trying to kill him. I think Kim Stanley Robinson might write a book like you described, he has already, his Mars Trilogy has all sorts of elements like that, the humans are their own worst enemy, including some nuts like the Reds, who believe Mars must be left pristine and kill people to keep it red! The Martian is about a Man versus the MArtian environment, and its actually pretty clever really!

I've seen a lot worse, remember the final scene in the Movie Total Recall with Arnold Swartzenneger?

The Martian was a lot better than this!

Here is an image from the Movie Robinson Crusoe on Mars, I think it was made in the 1950s, it is a similar story, its just that the movie got most of the facts about Mars wrong!

Last edited by Tom Kalbfus (2015-09-06 16:37:59)

GW Johnson · 2015-09-07 09:10:45

"Robinson Crusoe on Mars" was released in 1964, right before the Mariner flyby that surprised everybody with the news that Mars's air was virtually a vacuum. Prior to that flyby, most theorists thought Mars's "air" pressure was in the neighborhood of 85 mbar. Some thought it was mostly nitrogen. Some even thought it might have some free oxygen, too.

There were similar mistakes "characterizing" the moon before the Surveyor soft landing in 1963, and even wilder disparities about Venus before that other Mariner went by it in 1962. Ground truth has always been wildly at variance with remote sensing, for about 6 decades now.

The wise mission planner would expect that trend to continue. The less remote the sensing, the better the information remotely gathered is, but you'll not know "for sure" until you go there and actually dig or drill.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2015-09-07 09:12:26)

SpaceNut · 2015-09-07 14:08:55

Tom Kalbfus, I do remember " Total Recall with Arnold Swartzenneger" final scene just prior to the large scale atmospheric generator kicking in saving the day and allowing for the surface to be populated.

RobertDyck "the interplanetary transit vehicle (ITV). Can you say "Battlestar Galactica"" is huge like in iss plus the rocket propulsion to stages needed to get it anywhere huge.....

GW Johnson, like I have said before with the Nasa's timeline of 2035 for manned mission to mars we have plenty of time with each bi-yearly cycle for an unmanned miision to help in determining the best place for man to land at. This is simply risk mitigation of which we should be spraying the probes to all the possible site as to make it quicker to narrow down the most likely places to set up shop at. Focus these on radiation conditions (for ways to make shelter reduction) such as a sharp wall or cave, water and of insitu mineral useages.

GW Johnson · 2015-09-08 08:10:55

Hi Spacenut:

What you say about probes evaluating sites for bases is true, but it's not complete. None of the probes so far can scratch more than a few inches deep. I have seen no plans to do any robot drilling more than a meter deep.

Because is is extremely unlikely for there to be usable water (as non-salty ice) anywhere near the surface, and because that's the biggest, most important prerequisite for a successful base, then any "exploration" effort not drilling deep is conclusively not aimed at a base, pure and simple. If there's no base to be established, then it devolves very quickly to a flag-and-footprints stunt.

The most important probe we could send would target one of those suspected buried glaciers, and drill 10's, even 100's, of m deep to see what's really down there. You find buried freshwater ice, then all you need is steam heat and pressurization to bring up fresh water for crews and crops. You already have your first well from the probe that found it.

Mars is difficult enough to reach with men at this time in history, that I don't see the wisdom of another moon landing stunt there. But establishing some sort of permanent presence there, actually does seem wise, and in accord with a centuries-old dream.

GW

SpaceNut · 2015-09-08 20:55:39

You are correct in that the next mission must take a step to increase the baseline knowledge gained by the first and so on until we can go as its this data that will be needing to make the best choice site to land at....

Excelsior · 2015-10-10 14:59:50

So, has anyone actually seen it?

RobertDyck · 2015-10-10 15:27:05

Long story short, I have. Not the highest quality version, but I saw it. Pretty good! It has a giant spacecraft to go from Earth to Mars. For some reason Mars Pathfinder is within driving distance of the human Mars base location. It's a short-stay mission, also known as opposition-class, but NASA continues to talk about that. The NASA director is a control freak, willing to sacrifice an astronaut for how human space "looks" in the media. But there are precedents for that.

The good thing is it's an attempt to actually show what a real Mars mission would be. No space aliens, no fantasy technologies. The movie opened October 2nd; it's been a week already. You're a member of the Mars Society and haven't seen it yet?

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-10-11 16:32:48

It is the first realistic Mars movie that I have seen, there was no button pressed to turn on the gravity.
List of Mars Movies
Total Recall
Mission to Mars
Mission to Mars is more typical of the sort of Mars Movie we usually get, here is the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHfG7hgilwY
Red Planet
The Martian
This is the Martian Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=25&v=ej3ioOneTy8
John Carter
Ghosts of Mars
Doom
Mars Attacks
Lost of Mars
Empire of Danger
My Favorite Martian
The Martian Chronicles
Race to Mars
RocketMan
Robinson Crusoe on Mars
Species II
Mars needs Moms
Santa Claus Conquers the Martians
http://www.ranker.com/list/the-best-mar … 3DCPNTDFJS
Compare the two trailers above, seems like the events shown in the Movie The Martian are more likely to happen than in Mission to Mars.

Last edited by Tom Kalbfus (2015-10-11 16:43:29)

martienne · 2015-10-13 03:28:04

RobertDyck wrote:

Long story short, I have. Not the highest quality version, but I saw it. Pretty good! It has a giant spacecraft to go from Earth to Mars. For some reason Mars Pathfinder is within driving distance of the human Mars base location. It's a short-stay mission, also known as opposition-class, but NASA continues to talk about that. The NASA director is a control freak, willing to sacrifice an astronaut for how human space "looks" in the media. But there are precedents for that.
The good thing is it's an attempt to actually show what a real Mars mission would be. No space aliens, no fantasy technologies. The movie opened October 2nd; it's been a week already. You're a member of the Mars Society and haven't seen it yet?

Don't know if anyone's read the book? I read it earlier this year...
It's interesting from the Mars perspective, but the quality of writing is square as can be. The guy is literally devoid of feelings, and because he's alone on Mars, the only human interaction is between the people on Earth.

I don't remember anything about NASA proposing to simply leave the guy to die on Mars, in the interest of not damaging the reputation of the space program. Perhaps it was added to make the film more dramatic.

Also, I had the same view of this book as I have of American action films where the hero is unbelievably lucky, has absolutely no inhibitions and pulls crazy stunts which wouldn't work in reality. There was too much of that in the book. Also the "McGyver" stuff - the guy was a living encyclopedia of how to jerry-rig absolutely anything. He's supposed to be a botanist, but he is performing repairs and modifications on the level of a top class engineer and mechanic.

I liked the concept though - it was a cool idea. But I thought it was too much macho, superhero stunts in it, to feel realistic.

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-10-13 05:00:56

martienne wrote:

RobertDyck wrote:
Long story short, I have. Not the highest quality version, but I saw it. Pretty good! It has a giant spacecraft to go from Earth to Mars. For some reason Mars Pathfinder is within driving distance of the human Mars base location. It's a short-stay mission, also known as opposition-class, but NASA continues to talk about that. The NASA director is a control freak, willing to sacrifice an astronaut for how human space "looks" in the media. But there are precedents for that.
The good thing is it's an attempt to actually show what a real Mars mission would be. No space aliens, no fantasy technologies. The movie opened October 2nd; it's been a week already. You're a member of the Mars Society and haven't seen it yet?
Don't know if anyone's read the book? I read it earlier this year...
It's interesting from the Mars perspective, but the quality of writing is square as can be. The guy is literally devoid of feelings, and because he's alone on Mars, the only human interaction is between the people on Earth.
I don't remember anything about NASA proposing to simply leave the guy to die on Mars, in the interest of not damaging the reputation of the space program. Perhaps it was added to make the film more dramatic.
Also, I had the same view of this book as I have of American action films where the hero is unbelievably lucky, has absolutely no inhibitions and pulls crazy stunts which wouldn't work in reality. There was too much of that in the book. Also the "McGyver" stuff - the guy was a living encyclopedia of how to jerry-rig absolutely anything. He's supposed to be a botanist, but he is performing repairs and modifications on the level of a top class engineer and mechanic.

Why wouldn't he be? Do you think just anybody could be an astronaut? You got to have the right stuff! Why don't you go apply for NASA's astronaut program if you think its easy to get in? The thing is, getting into space is expensive, they are not going to let just anybody become an astronaut. Astronauts typically have above normal intelligence, and there is something about each one which makes them stand a head above the rest. So you are going to have astronauts that have some unusual abilities, if they didn't have them, they wouldn't be astronauts!

I liked the concept though - it was a cool idea. But I thought it was too much macho, superhero stunts in it, to feel realistic.

Terraformer · 2015-10-13 07:45:24

I saw it yesterday. It was enjoyable, even though they would have had to vent at least 10% of their mass in the form of atmosphere to decelerate (assuming it is at 1 bar and escapes at the speed of sound) at the end.

martienne · 2015-10-13 08:16:38

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

Why wouldn't he be? Do you think just anybody could be an astronaut? You got to have the right stuff! Why don't you go apply for NASA's astronaut program if you think its easy to get in? The thing is, getting into space is expensive, they are not going to let just anybody become an astronaut. Astronauts typically have above normal intelligence, and there is something about each one which makes them stand a head above the rest. So you are going to have astronauts that have some unusual abilities, if they didn't have them, they wouldn't be astronauts!

1) I have never alluded to having any belief that I would qualify for NASA! Where did you get that from? I am the wrong nationality for starters, and it's downhill from there... So why attack me for something I have never even suggested?

2) I have never refuted that NASA astronauts are likely to have very high IQs. But just because a person has a high IQ doesn't make him a master engineer or mechanic by default! These professions require years and years of training, particularly to be at the level where you can instantly figure out how to fix equipment used for space travel. No amount of intelligence will replace years and years of specialist training and experience in these extremely complex and demanding fields. By his own admission, "The Martian" is a botanist, and nothing else. So I find it unlikely, regardless of how intelligent he is, that he can instantly perform at the level of a NASA flight engineer or mechanic.

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-10-13 20:52:16

He actually is a botanist and an engineer. NASA likes to cross train its astronauts so in case one dies, another can fulfill his role, and the chances of someone dying on a Mars mission is significantly greater than on an Apollo Moon mission, this tend to happen on missions that can last several years. A person could simply die from natural causes if nothing else, there are no hospitals nearby, so a person who has a heart attack in space is in some serious trouble!

As far as foreign astronauts are concerned, NASA has sent a few of those into space including an Israeli, a German, and a British Astronaut.

Last edited by Tom Kalbfus (2015-10-13 20:53:26)

martienne · 2015-10-14 06:39:32

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

He actually is a botanist and an engineer.

OK, I had forgotten that since I read the book. What kind of engineer?

Either way - I hope the film gets more people excited about a Mars mission.

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

As far as foreign astronauts are concerned, NASA has sent a few of those into space including an Israeli, a German, and a British Astronaut.

Yup America's favourite tail-wagging countries. Not everyone is from one of those countries.

Last edited by martienne (2015-10-14 06:40:38)

Terraformer · 2015-10-14 09:59:33

What I read is that he was a botanist and mechanical engineer. Which makes sense, given the sort of people that would be picked for a Mars mission (despite what Dr Zubrin thinks, there *are* people who are trained as both doctors and biologists...).

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-10-14 13:23:03

martienne wrote:

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
He actually is a botanist and an engineer.
OK, I had forgotten that since I read the book. What kind of engineer?
Either way - I hope the film gets more people excited about a Mars mission.

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
As far as foreign astronauts are concerned, NASA has sent a few of those into space including an Israeli, a German, and a British Astronaut.
Yup America's favourite tail-wagging countries. Not everyone is from one of those countries.

Well Obviously we're not going to launch Cubans, North Koreans, and Iranians into space!

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#1 2015-06-09 14:14:25

[Movie] The Martian

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