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#1 2023-01-23 22:22:54

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,757

A Mars cycler (or Earth–Mars cycler) is a kind of space trajectory

For SpaceNut ... recently one of our members has been thinking about "cycler" spacecraft...

I wondered if we had a topic that contained the word "cycler" and discovered we did not have one.

A "cycler" does not stop anywhere ... it is in constant motion.  The Mars Cycler is designed to move between the Earth and Mars without stopping at either.

Google came up with a set of snippets that our readers can follow for additional information...

(th)

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#2 2023-01-23 22:24:15

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,757

Re: A Mars cycler (or Earth–Mars cycler) is a kind of space trajectory

Per Google:

Mars cycler - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Mars_cycler

A Mars cycler (or Earth–Mars cycler) is a kind of spacecraft trajectory that encounters ... The Aldrin cycler is an example of a Mars cycler.
Physics · Proposed use · Notes

Mars cycler

View all

A Mars cycler is a kind of spacecraft trajectory that encounters Earth and Mars regularly. The term Mars cycler may also refer to a spacecraft on a Mars cycler trajectory. The Aldrin cycler is an example of a Mars cycler. Wikipedia

Aldrin Mars Cycler - Buzz Aldrin Astronaut Apollo 11, Gemini 12
buzzaldrin.com › space-vision › rocket_science › aldrin-mars-cycler
The Aldrin Cycler's design features a slow rotation of the spacecraft to create artificial gravity to avoid the bone and muscle loss hazard of weightlessness on ...

People also ask
What is the Aldrin cycle?
What is a cycler orbit?

[PDF] The Aldrin Cycler
www.astro.umd.edu › ~hamilton › Presentation › MacDonaldEthan_0
First proposed by Buzz Aldrin in 1985. • Two ballistic cyclers following mirroring trajectories. • Up and Down “Escalators” for transport to and from Mars.

The Aldrin Cycler: A Conveyor Belt To Mars | Answers With Joe
www.youtube.com › watch

May 10, 2021 · Go to http://www.mackweldon.com/joescott and enter promo code "JOESCOTT" at checkout to ...
Duration: 15:20
Posted: May 10, 2021

Aldrin cycler - Wiktionary
en.wiktionary.org › wiki › Aldrin_cycler
(astronautics) A spacecraft which cycles between the planet Earth and the planet Mars, in its own orbit which intercepts both their orbits at times when the ...
Florida Tech Researchers Explore Buzz Aldrin's Mars Cycler Concept

news.fit.edu › All News
Jul 24, 2020 · After the crew finishes its mission on Mars, the crew transfer vehicle and cycler will then be used in reverse order to get the crew back to ...
[PDF] A Low-Thrust Version of the Aldrin Cycler

engineering.purdue.edu › people › ConferencePapersPresentations › 2...
In this paper we seek a low-thrust version of a cycler orbit between Earth and Mars known as the Aldrin cycler. The principal goal is to design trajectories ...
The Martian Express - Damn Interesting

www.damninteresting.com › the-martian-express
As grand and simple as it all may seem, the Aldrin Cycler concept is not devoid of drawbacks. The Cyclers' construction would certainly require more upfront ...
What uses would the Aldrin-Cycler have?

space.stackexchange.com › questions › what-uses-would-the-aldrin-cycler-...
An Aldrin-Cycler is a vessel on an orbit on which it passes both Earth and Mars every few years without expending much fuel.
Why does the Buzz Aldrin Mars Cycler not play a larger role in ...

Aldrin cycler mission to Mars in MATLAB [closed]
What is the minimum transfer time for Earth/Mars cycler and still ...

More results from space.stackexchange.com
Tutorial: Earth-Moon Aldrin Cycler - Kerbal Space Program Wiki
wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com › wiki › Tutorial:_Earth-Moon_Aldrin_Cycler

May 6, 2020 · Buzz Aldrin invented a class of orbits that allow a ship to continuously transit between two bodies with little or no orbit adjustments.

Related searches
Aldrin Cycler KSP
Lunar cycler
Aldrin cycler orbit
Mars cycler animation
Interstellar cycler
Earth-Moon cycler

(th)

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#3 2023-01-25 07:35:48

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,757

Re: A Mars cycler (or Earth–Mars cycler) is a kind of space trajectory

This post by Calliban was first delivered to a topic of Void...

Calliban wrote:

Using a cycler would actually increase the total dV requirements of a mission, given that a classic hohmann trajectory cannot be used.  But it could substantially reduce the mass requirements of human transfer between planets and would greatly improve comfort.  A small taxi can be used to transfer people from LEO to cycler and then cycler to LMO.  Freight would travel seperately on a more standard hohmann trajectory.

One problem with a classic cycler is that many years may pass between suitabe planetary encounters.  If you board the cycler close to Earth, it may be 4-6 years before reaching Mars. One way of improving the economic utility of a cycler is to use it to reach multiple targets.  If the apogee is greater than Mars semi major axis, then the cycler can also be used to access inner belt asteroids.  Its orbit will also cross the orbit of many Near Earth Asteroids.  A single cycler can facilitate access to many different end points.

A cycler crossing the orbit of Venus could facilitate manned missions to Mercury.  Such a vehicle would seem to be a neccesity for these missions, as astronauts will need protection from solar radiation during transit.

The whole point of a cycler is NOT to stop anywhere, but instead, to provide a safe, comfortable travel experience to persons headed to destinations in System.

There are NO gradations ... a cycler is either 100% on a cycler orbit, or it is not.

There is no such thing as a "partial" cycler.

On the other hand, there may be a term-of-art for a space vessel that plies the spaceways between Earth and another destination, such as Mars.

The term "ferry" is used on Earth, to describe a maritime vessel that shuttles between two (or more) points on the surface of the Earth according to a schedule.

Another term that might be used if service is not regular is "tramp", but that is just a guess on my part.

This topic is about "true" space cycler orbits.

Many thanks to Calliban to adding to the forum record on the benefits (and disadvantages) of the cycler orbit design.

(th)

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#4 2023-01-25 08:17:21

Calliban
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From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 2,336

Re: A Mars cycler (or Earth–Mars cycler) is a kind of space trajectory

Ryugu would be an an excellent candidate for an Earth-Mars cycler.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/162173_Ryugu

It's orbit crosses the orbits of both Earth and Mars.  It also appears to be water and carbon rich.  Its mass is 450 million tonnes.  It therefore contains all of the elements needed to sustain a sizable human population.  It's mass is sufficient for ~100 Island One sized human settlements.

It is probably not coincidental that the Japanese space agency have shown special interest in this object.  It is interesting both as a cycler and as a target for asteroid mining intended to return materials to Earth orbit.  Colonising Ryugu would therefore assist in multiple space development goals such as: (1) An Earth-Mars cycler; (2) A cycler to other NEAs; (3) A destination in itself for long-term settlement; (4) A target for asteroid mining, intended to deliver water and other materials to industries in high Earth orbit.

Last edited by Calliban (2023-01-25 08:23:31)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#5 2023-01-25 10:35:57

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 5,380

Re: A Mars cycler (or Earth–Mars cycler) is a kind of space trajectory

Calliban said:

Ryugu would therefore assist in multiple space development goals such as: (1) An Earth-Mars cycler; (2) A cycler to other NEAs; (3) A destination in itself for long-term settlement; (4) A target for asteroid mining, intended to deliver water and other materials to industries in high Earth orbit.

All the points are good. #2 seems very interesting, as you could create "Spark" worlds that could basically "Ignite" activities in other asteroids.  If you are living in your own "Space House", then it may not matter that it takes a long time to alter orbit with the solar wind, but you can then do so.

Quote:

It's mass is sufficient for ~100 Island One sized human settlements.

So, really a potential chain reaction.  Send a stream of them out to intercept other asteroids.  A sort of Von Neuman machine but not strictly robotic, involving humans.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neuma … onstructor

I read an article recently that indicated that rubble piles may be very old.  We have the idea that they form from shattered solid asteroids, but it seems that they may catch materials even now.  They are a natural shock absorber.  And interesting idea would be if they can serve as mass driver receivers?  It would depend on lots of factors, but even if they blow apart to some extent, I think they can collect back together over a period of time.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-01-25 11:46:15)


Done.

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#6 2023-01-25 21:05:47

SpaceNut
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Re: A Mars cycler (or Earth–Mars cycler) is a kind of space trajectory

The cycler while it fills the role it's still does not have gravity which is a very important health factor.

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#7 2023-01-25 21:33:31

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,757

Re: A Mars cycler (or Earth–Mars cycler) is a kind of space trajectory

For SpaceNut re #6

If you can find a minute or two, please go back to post #2 and read a few sentences down ... you'll find that gravity was planned for in the original Aldrin cycler.  There may be versions of the cycler that did not have gravity, but Aldrin's certainly did!

(th)

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#8 2023-01-25 21:52:48

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 5,380

Re: A Mars cycler (or Earth–Mars cycler) is a kind of space trajectory

It was an important question Spacenut, but (th) is correct by my thinking.

A cycler should offer things that a Starship may not so easily offer.

But the Falcon 9 is, I believe, 1/5th the cost that the Aldrin Cycler expected for launch capabilities.

But how much better do we hope that Starship will be than Falcon 9?

So, if that proves true, then we might want to have another look at cyclers, as if the Starship is successful, cyclers are also much more cost effective.

And then if electric rockets continue to develop, then those may deliver supplies from Starship LEO, to the cyclers.

And then if Nuclear Electric is developed, then that more to power the electric rockets that could supply a cycler with parts and other needed things.

A good cycler should have artificial gravity, very good radiation protection, and I would hope full recycling for life support.

It could be a really exciting thing. 

I want my version tough to be captured into Martian orbit periodically by Ballistic Capture method.  And then to be refilled with propellants and other supplies in Martian orbit.  Then to launch back out into a cycle that might intercept a world of utility, such as Earth.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-01-25 21:56:52)


Done.

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#9 2023-01-26 06:03:33

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 6,371

Re: A Mars cycler (or Earth–Mars cycler) is a kind of space trajectory

I feel as though the best use for a cycler is to deliver low-value cargo at a lower total cost, such as metals and chemicals.  If the payload fails to meet the cycler, then nobody dies and nothing of irreplaceable value is lost in space.  If we eventually gain enough experience using cyclers to assure docking and separation of payloads, then we can think about sending humans.  Beyond that, artificial "spin gravity", if done in one direction only, meaning no counter-rotation, will affect the orbit enough to put the vehicle out of position for the next rendezvous opportunity.

If we think about where the real tonnage is, for purposes of building a Mars colony from scratch, it's metals, petrochemicals, heavy machine tools (tunnel boring machines, lathes, hydraulic presses for metal stamping), tracked motorized vehicles, solar panels, batteries, nuclear fuels (Uranium and Thorium), concrete and steel to build landing pads / launch pads / transport cranes for Starships, cryogenic propellant storage tanks, and eventually a runway with arresting gear and catapults so that "normal" (for Mars) space planes can conduct regular flights without the dangers associated with vertical takeoff and landing.

We talked about potentially using nuclear-powered versions of NASA's crawler-transporter, a type of heavy duty "land train" if you will, that can be used as mobile bases to mine ice and metals and have unlimited global range, like a nuclear powered ship, albeit at very low speeds.  The Soviets developed and tested nuclear powered "land trains" (enormous tracked vehicles intended to traverse the vast Siberian tundra without burning fuel, which was not easy to transport).  The New York Times ran a story on it, August 31st, 1964.  It consisted of 4 tracked vehicles and weighed 350t.

The US Army tested LeTourneau land trains back in the late 1950s / early 1960s, IIRC, and they were thinking about a nuclear powered variant, but the reactor technology of the time was not sufficiently well-developed.  That is no longer the case today.  Our ability to turn nuclear heat into electricity has drastically improved since that time.

Almost all trains, including the land trains, and the crawler-transporter are diesel-electric machines.  There's no real reason why they can't be nuclear-electric on Mars, using modern reactor technology.

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#10 2023-01-26 08:54:03

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 5,380

Re: A Mars cycler (or Earth–Mars cycler) is a kind of space trajectory

I think that at this time electric propulsion, and Ballistic Capture would be the best way to get materials to Mars Orbits.

If it were necessary you could have a Cycling Spaceship that has counter rotation methods.

While I value the idea that a Cycling Spaceship can reuse some of its momentum, my notions are that such ships would have active propulsive methods.

As I have already a place to do my own version you may see my thinking here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_ship
A few posts back may do, if you want to.

Oops!  actually here are my thoughts:   http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 68#p205468

As far as passenger danger, my notion is to Ballistically Capture to Mars to exchange passengers.  A flyby of Earth would be used to exchange passengers.  While that is dangerous, so is flying a Starship to Mars, except that one includes more trouble about radiation and perhaps lack of spin gravity.

Here I am trying to get a better grasp of what your concerns about spin are.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-01-26 09:59:58)


Done.

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