New Mars Forums

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,831

Working with plastics.

The administrators may do as they please here with this.

This was the video I wanted to pull up, but apparently it is not available anymore: "+utube, Roads of the future are here, Innovative Techs"

General Response: https://www.bing.com/search?q=%2butube% … &FORM=RCRE

Roads from recycled plastics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQW6j4Xhrfo

Here is a newer one perhaps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfzNmonp1uM

I guess the notion of the one I could not fetch was that they are actually fishing plastics out of the oceans and also recycling plastics into roads.  I cannot say how good those roads are, but I can get paranoid the control freaks will dispute it if they can.  Their goal has never been so much a concern about fixing problems.  Rather like lampreys, they want to rasp on problems so they can do a vampire move on the general population they wish to farm.

In any case I intend to bring this to terraforming, as concerns for Earth are not the same as those for Mars.

It does suggest a future where if you can create plastics from CO2 in the air from biology, then those plastics might be OK to include into roads, at least on Mars.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-01-18 11:51:28)

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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,443

Re: Working with plastics.

For Void re new topic .... Best wishes for success!  This topic would seem to have unlimited upside potential.

You are now over the dreaded Zero replies hurdle.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: Working with plastics.

It is also being added to bricks, cement blocks and other sort of building materials as well. Considering that only 6% of all plastics returned to a recycling center means there is a lot going into landfills.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,831

Re: Working with plastics.

Thank You both for your comments:  I have this: https://phys.org/news/2013-12-plastic-c … ium%20fuel.

You may have noticed that I suggested a method to get an almost pure O2 output from plants growing in bags, that the plastic could be burned in.  Most Nitrogen is kept out of the cycle, except that in fertilizers for the plants, and what may come out of some plastics theselves.

So, if the plastic is not being processed, there is something wrong with what is being done with landfills.

It is similar to "Good Heavens! There is plastic in the oceans".  That is because 1st world countries dispose of it to poorer countries, and of course rather than not having any money, they may dump it in the oceans.  It is mostly a cultural problem.

Deaminizing Plastics is the wrong approach, just like deaminizing CO2.

We know where these wrong thinking processes come from.  It is those who farm people, and who see them as livestock.  These are extremely evil people.  It is important to understand what they want.  (Clue: It isn't our happiness).

I would suggest that Tesla Bots may be able to do sorting in the future.

The same plastic bag technology may sequester CO2 collected into organic objects.  Maybe more plastics, pseudo wood, or fuels.  That is the more correct way of thinking.  Not that of the people farmers.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-01-18 20:57:04)

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SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,433

Re: Working with plastics.

It's about what the landfills are getting paid for the ton of plastic collected and how clean the plastics are from food and liquids that they once contained as they do not want to add costs to the processing of them.
Some types have a higher value as to the energy that can be regained from its collection.
Most places are trying to do away with the plastic bags and even to the point of not even providing them.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,831

Re: Working with plastics.

That seems sensible.  So, we modify our behaviors perhaps to fit with a proper disposal/recycle plan.  I would like to see that.

I would like to mention though that I feel that our thinking is too fuel side and not enough Oxydizer.

When I was employed in a certain company, at times I was tolerated at a power plant.  They worked very hard to promote efficient burning, as to not do that is to push too much heated Nitrogen up the stack.  Of course not enough air and you don't burn your fuel effectively and so suffer a loss either way.

Pure and Oxygen and organic matter is dancing with demons.  But not if it is in water.  So, another look.  Plastic bags filled with water, immersed in water.  You inject CO2, an provide nutrients.  The bags need to be close enough to sunlight.

Now you have a highly enriched source of Oxygen, and you grew some plants or microbes.  Organic Matter.

Now if you don't want the organic materials for anything else you may dry them and extract the water as distilled, and then you may simply burn a low-grade fuel very well with a high Oxygen gas mixture.  Then the CO2 goes back into the bags.  But maybe you can make a structural material.

See, now you have very little Nitrogen in the burning process.  That saves energy.

What if we design engines that burn Perchlorate and Organic Matter?

Steam Engines, water, Nitrogen, CO2 Steam?

Can Dr. Johnson and Calliban and others create a multichambered device that gasifies Perchlorate and organic matter and feeds the gasses to an internal combustion engine?  (For Mars).  I think Dr. Johnson might know a bit about Perchlorates and solid fuels.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ru … &FORM=VIRE
Quote:

Running a Gasoline Engine on Firewood | Woodgas Biofuel
YouTube689K viewsOct 12, 2018by NightHawkInLight

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-01-18 21:25:35)

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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,831

Re: Working with plastics.

I feel like chasing this around some more: https://www.fastradius.com/resources/to … PVDF%29%20
Quote:

These are the five best UV-resistant plastics on the market today
By Fast Radius
May 13, 2021

But my intentions are also coupled to this:  https://phys.org/news/2023-01-microalga … pidly.html

Quote:

JANUARY 19, 2023

Microalgae could be the future of sustainable superfood in a rapidly changing world, study finds
by Frontiers

Quote:

While long studied as a source of biofuel thanks to their high lipid or fat content, algae are also attracting interest from researchers because of their potential to be a more efficient food source.

Quote:

For instance, a 2014 study cited in the current paper by Mayfield and his team found that algae can produce 167 times more useful biomass than corn annually while using the same amount of land. Other models predict that existing algae strains could potentially replace 25% of European protein consumption and 50% of the total vegetable oil consumption when grown on available land that is not currently used for traditional crops.

 

------------
What I find as curious is that while some people in Europe are resorting to burning wood, there is no thought that I am aware of for burning Algae.  Of course, food is important, but if you get an abundance, then you can burn Algae, and the Algae you burn does not even have to be non-toxic.

Many people want to ferment alcohol fuels, or squeeze oils out of biological entities, but why not just burn the Algae?  Not for Cars, but for stationary power.

I believe that I have previously shown how bags of water in lakes, might provide a relatively safe source of highly beneficiated gas where Oxygen might be almost all of what is present.  So, then you eliminate most Nitrogen from the burning process, and I believe that pure Oxygen will burn a lot of things better than will air.

Query: "Burning organic Mass in pure Oxygen"

General Response #1: https://www.bing.com/search?q=Burning+o … 8670205ef4

Burning Stuff:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Bu … &FORM=VIRE
Burning Coal:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Bu … &FORM=VIRE

Quote:

Oxy-fuel combustion process
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I probably have things to learn from this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxy-fuel_ … 20possible.

Quote:

Oxy-fuel combustion process
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search

Oxyfuel CCS power plant operation
Oxy-fuel combustion is the process of burning a fuel using pure oxygen, or a mixture of oxygen and recirculated flue gas, instead of air. Since the nitrogen component of air is not heated, fuel consumption is reduced, and higher flame temperatures are possible. Historically, the primary use of oxy-fuel combustion has been in welding and cutting of metals, especially steel, since oxy-fuel allows for higher flame temperatures than can be achieved with an air-fuel flame.[1] It has also received a lot of attention in recent decades as a potential carbon capture and storage technology.[2]

There is currently research being done in firing fossil fuel power plants with an oxygen-enriched gas mix instead of air. Almost all of the nitrogen is removed from input air, yielding a stream that is approximately 95% oxygen.[3] Firing with pure oxygen would result in too high a flame temperature, so the mixture is diluted by mixing with recycled flue gas, or staged combustion. The recycled flue gas can also be used to carry fuel into the boiler and ensure adequate convective heat transfer to all boiler areas. Oxy-fuel combustion produces approximately 75% less flue gas than air fueled combustion and produces exhaust consisting primarily of CO2 and H2O (see figure).

Algae Dewatering process: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=De … M%3DHDRSC3

So now we can be filter feeders.

I am guessing that in a close to pure Oxygen situation you could burn Algae that is not completely dried.  The steam might work as a dilutant???

Growing Spirulina at Home. Blue green algae for fish and people too!
YouTube188K viewsJul 14, 2010by David Epstein

Another Algae thing: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?&q=D … ajaxhist=0

The bags would allow you to better control the interior PH and other factors, and to perhaps keep undesired organisms out.

Floating those bags in water could be protective of such bags.

More controversial might be domes of plastics used to protect a pool of water that the bags could be in.   In that case the domes likely have to be UV resistant, but then the plan would be to combust the plastic in a high Oxygen burn, to return it to more elemental natures.

This could make more sense than irrigating dry land crops, say with desert river water.  In effect these would be solar cisterns.

And so, this then begins to resemble what might be done for Mars, where the environment is even harsher.

Done

Last edited by Void (2023-01-19 12:28:10)

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