Business Opportunity

tahanson43206 · 2022-12-28 10:29:38

For SpaceNut (primarily (all welcome)) ...

In Housekeeping, and before that in one of Void's topics, the idea of designing a business to supply heat and power to home owners for an entire winter season has sprung into visibility.

The specific idea is to design a power and heating system for a private residence sized to last an entire winter, and based upon vegetable oil, which is a renewable resource.

Ideally, the oil would come from plants grown in the desert and fed with sea water.

There exist plants that can tolerate salt in water. Others here can add detail, but I am thinking about mangrove trees.

Genetic engineering ** should ** be able to deliver a version of the mangrove tree that produces oil in bulbs and which thrives on sea water in abundant sunlight.

SearchTerm:Vegetable oil powered home heating and power
SearchTerm:Heating home using vegetable oild

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tahanson43206 · 2022-12-28 10:32:37

Todo items for Vegetable Oil Home Heating business opportunity assessment ...

1) Determine volume of oil to be stored for a winter
2) Determine oil types - energy content - pros and cons of each candidate
3) Determine sourcing options
4) Investigate genetic engineering of mangrove (or other) plants to thrive in sea water and produce bulbs of oil

The article below originated in Vietnam (according to notes ...)

http://goldenspoonawards.com/golden-spo … 558491.htm

It indicates that the fruit of some mangrove trees is valued as a counter point to salted fish.

For the purposes of this business proposal, it would seem desirable to adjust the DNA of the plant to produce more oil, and to live directly in salt water. My impression (at the moment) is that mangrove do better in brackish water, but perhaps there are varieties that do better with higher concentrations of salt than others.

Kelp (obviously) do just fine in richly salted sea water.

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tahanson43206 · 2022-12-28 10:57:09

For SpaceNut (primarily (all others welcome))...

Google came up with a short list of snippets about kelp as a source of oil ...

Kelp is transformed into biofuel by a process called thermochemical liquefaction. The kelp is dried out, and the salt is washed away. Then it's turned into bio-oil through a high-temperature, high-pressure conversion process.
Aug 22, 2017
Scientists Hope To Farm The Biofuel Of The Future In The Pacific ...
www.npr.org › sections › thesalt › 2017/08/22 › scientists-hope-to-farm-th...
About Featured Snippets
People also ask
Does seaweed produce oil?
How is kelp turned into fuel?
Can kelp be used as biofuel?
Could seaweed be the fuel of the future?
Kelp Oil | Science and the Sea
www.scienceandthesea.org › program › kelp-oil
Jan 19, 2020 · So researchers are looking at ways to produce biofuels using organisms grown in the oceans, including kelp. Although the kelp would release ...
Kelp fuel is making a comeback 50 years after it was first proposed ...
lbpost.com › news › kelp-fuel-biofuel-cultivation-technology-oil
May 23, 2021 · Kelp and other plants can be turned into fuel through either fermentation or a process called hydrothermal liquefaction. Fermentation produces ...

From my perspective, leaving the kelp in the ocean, and simply harvesting globes of oil would seem the optimum way of farming the crop.

Modern AI developments, and robot machinery advances, should permit development of solar powered kelp harvesters.

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Void · 2022-12-28 11:17:34

I don't want to dent this topic much with my presence, but I think organic pathways hold a lot of promise. Using available heating methods, Oils can be produced. Pyrolysis. Should be good for Mars. https://kingtigergroup.com/conversion-o … 20refinery.

That is why I look for the possibility of growing masses of Hydrilla, on Mars for instance. Methods that are not too costly would be desired.

Done.

tahanson43206 · 2022-12-28 11:28:23

For Void re #129

Thank you for your (most welcome) contribution to the topic ... keeping an eye on the Mars aspect of discussion here is both important and helpful.

The energy storage problem for Mars is a bit different from that for Earth, because oxygen must be stored at the same time as the fuel.

I would like to (at least try to) encourage our members to think about biological heating fuels that do not require a lot of processing before they can be sold to customers.

Olive oil is an example of a successful biological product that is produced on land and distributed around the world.

There are numerous other kinds of plant oils that can be rendered without too much processing, and made available for sale.

It is (of course) of interest that (most) biological oils are also sources of food energy for creatures and humans.

An agricultural industry built up to serve a home heating (and power) distribution network would (presumably) be able to serve food needs as well.

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tahanson43206 · 2022-12-28 11:39:19

Topic: Business Opportunity
Subtopic: Biological oil for home heating and power to last an entire winter

Bing came up with quite a list of existing biological heating options:

Biodiesel
What if you could heat your home using vegetable oil? In fact, biodiesel is already a viable fuel for home heating, and homes that use an oil furnace can switch to using a blend of biofuel with little to no hassle. Read on to learn more about this environmentally-friendly heating fuel. Better for the Environment
Using Biofuel To Heat Your Home - One Hour Heating & Air Conditi…
www.onehourheatandair.com/articles/expert-tips/furnaces/using-biofuel-to-heat-your-home/
www.onehourheatandair.com/articles/expert-tips/furnaces/using-biofuel-to-heat …
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How To Heat Your Room With Vegetable Oil - Ask a …
https://www.askaprepper.com/how-to-heat-your-room...
WebDec 27, 2018 · The fuel source was vegetable oil. While cooking oil is not an abundant prep in most people’s homes, it can be used to make candles …
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Deek's Veggie Oil Heater - Tiny House Blog
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Greenhouse:Self made waste vegetable oil heater - Dave's Ga…
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primalsurvivor.net
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Homemade Vegetable Oil Lamp - Judy of the Woods
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Using hydrotreated vegetable oil in home heating
https://heatingnewsjournal.com/using-hydrotreated...
WebDec 31, 2021 · Using hydrotreated vegetable oil in home heating. By Pete Masterson On Dec 31, 2021. Today we’re staring at the oil boiler – currently the Dick Dastardly of home heating history. Even with over 90% efficiency …
Vegetable Oil Heating - Wattco
https://www.wattco.com/casestudy/vegetable-oil-heating
WebFood Industries and Vegetable Oil Viscosity. In Cleveland Ohio, a large food manufacturer called WATTCO ™ for some flanged immersion heaters that were to be used to heat up vegetable oil in large tanks. In the food …

Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil (HVO) - a game-changer …
https://www.plumbingmag.com/hydrotreated-vegetable...
WebJul 21, 2021 · Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil (HVO) – a game-changer for home heating. Firebird leading the charge to combat Ireland’s climate woes... By. Plumbing & Heating Magazine. -. 21st July 2021. Norman Armstrong, …
Images of Vegetable Oil for Home heating
bing.com/images

Biodiesel fits right into the scenario SpaceNut introduced recently .... In one of his posts, he reminded us that diesel can be substituted for home heating oil in an emergency. Diesel would be more expensive, so it would not be the first choice. However, biodiesel might turn out to be an alternative that could be made competitive in price.

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tahanson43206 · 2022-12-28 11:46:16

Topic: Business Opportunity
Subtopic: Biological oil for home heating and power to last an entire winter

Bing's list for least expensive vegetable oils ...

What is the Cheapest Vegetable Oil? – Soulmate Twin Flame
It accounts for nearly a fifth of the global vegetable oil market and 44% of its volume. Sunflower oil is one of the four “big four” vegetable oils, and is made from a blend of different seeds. This makes it the cheapest vegetable oil. Soy oil. The soybean oil supply has decreased in recent years and is now the cheapest vegetable oil on the market.
https://soulmatetwinflame.com/index.php/2022/05/22/...

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SpaceNut · 2022-12-28 16:28:40

Some plants make more oils than others to make use of for mars backup but we need a ton of oxygen to do so.

tahanson43206 · 2023-01-01 14:43:18

In another topic, Void reported news of salt tolerant plants ....

In particular, he reported the plant investigated at this link might be valuable for production of useful molecules when grown near the sea shore:

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 32#p204632

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tahanson43206 · 2023-01-02 19:18:08

This is a follow up to #132

Topic: Business Opportunity
Subtopic: Biological oil for home heating and power to last an entire winter

Title for this post: All Green Winter Heating with Emergency Electric Power

Participants:

1) Customer - wealthy family willing and able to pay whatever it takes to achieve an all-green renewable solution for winter heating
2) Farmer - a farm entity able to provide the quantity of vegetable material needed to cover the project requirements
3) Finance/Project Management - a company able to manage contracts, day-to-day follow up, and overall planning and supervision
4) Furnace manufacturer (one of many active in the marketplace today)
5) Tank manufacturer (one of many active in the marketplace today)
6) On site installation and service agent (probably an existing HVAC vendor near customer)
7) On site grounds modification agent - architect - government approvals - manage subcontractors (for tank room )
8) Processor: Accepts vegetable material and produces oil suitable for conversion to biodiesel
9) Processor: Accepts vegetable oil and produces biodiesel suitable for the planned application

Suggestions to improve this list are welcome.

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RobertDyck · 2023-01-03 01:56:34

tahanson43206: I live in the Canadian city of Winnipeg. That's the capital of the province of Manitoba. Here in this province we use natural gas for home heating. A tiny number of homes use an electric furnace or electric baseboard heaters, but most use natural gas. The cost of electricity used to be the lowest on the continent, but ever since the government owned electric utility gained a monopoly, the cost of electricity has risen. That same government owned utility bought the natural gas utility, so they had a monopoly of energy. Lawsuits resulted in the courts ordering other natural gas retail companies to use the infrastructure of the existing utility to deliver natural gas. That means companies didn't need any physical infrastructure, just a billing office to buy and resell natural gas to consumers, using the infrastructure of the utility that the government owned utility purchased. That helped control natural gas prices a little, but not much. Still, even with all that, it costs less to heat a home with natural gas than electricity.

Why vegetable oil? Any vegetable oil would cost more than natural gas. The cost of natural gas had increased as commercial electric utilities consumed industrial quantities when the shifted from burning coal to burning natural gas. But then the United States discovered they could harvest oil from shale deposits using a technique called fracking. The side effect of fracking was release of a lot of natural gas. The produced so much it saturated the market. That drove prices down again.

If you're concerned about the climate on Earth, the alternative is a combination of solar panels on the house roof, helical windmills in the back yard, geothermal heat pump, batteries in the basement, good insulation, and heat exchanger of breathing air. The result is a home that is 100% energy independent in worst case weather conditions for that location. During the other 51 weeks per year the house will sell power to the grid. Some people have asked if all houses do this, then who buys the power? This works with houses, shopping malls, and other low buildings with larger roof surface; it doesn't work with tower buildings. Apartment towers or office towers will still have to buy power. That's Ok, someone has to buy the power. And industry will always use more power than they produce.

tahanson43206 · 2023-01-03 07:25:59

For RobertDyck Re #136

Thank you for your observations about the history and technology of home heating, and your assessment of the relative merits of various alternatives.

This topic is available for additional commentary, one way or the other.

It should be noted that a home owner who lives in an area with a steady supply of natural gas is indeed fortunate!

Millions of home owners around the world are not so fortunate.

The ideal customer for the business proposal in Post #137 would live in an area WITHOUT a supply of natural gas, AND who does NOT want to clutter up the landscape with electronic devices, and who does NOT want to consume ground-sourced heating fuel of any kind, and who does NOT want to be at risk of no heating in the dead of winter due to failure of the electrical grid.

In addition, the ideal customer would NOT want to deal with wood, which requires physical handling on the intake side, and removal of physical byproducts on the output side. The fact that some persons might want to deal with wood because they enjoy physical activity in support of home heating does NOT mean that everyone does, or even CAN perform the necessary labors.

I would respectfully point out that a home owner who enjoys a steady, reliable flow of natural gas DOES NOT enjoy a reliable flow of electricity, and ALL modern gas furnaces require electricity to operate at all, let alone move air in a home or business location, so a backup generator that runs on natural gas is a traditional solution to the problem caused by utility electrical outage.

Out of curiosity, I asked Google for assistance:

26% of US households use electricity as 'only' energy source | Electrek
electrek.co › 2022/07/13 › us-households-electricity
Jul 13, 2022 · Inversely, that means 74% of US homes used electricity and directly used at least one other fuel, such as natural gas, fuel oil, propane, ...

This next snippet is about new homes:

What percent of homes use natural gas?
Approximately 49 percent of new homes started in 2021 use natural gas as the primary heating fuel, compared to 47 percent powered by electricity.
Almost Even Split Between Natural Gas and Electric Heating Systems ...
eyeonhousing.org › 2022/09 › almost-even-split-between-natural-gas-and-...

As an observation, I would like to point out that an all-electric home is dependent upon a reliable supply of electricity, and if that supply comes from a utility, then that utility is most likely to be fueled by coal or natural gas. In the US supply may come from a nuclear plant. The supply market now includes wind and solar facilities.

The next snippet is about heating oil and propane (ie, not supplied by natural gas)...

What percentage of US homes are heated by oil?
Heating oil, also known as distillate fuel and very similar to diesel, is delivered by truck and then burned in a furnace. In the United States, 4.4% of households heat their homes with heating oil.
The Geography of Heating Oil and Propane - Energy Institute Blog
energyathaas.wordpress.com › 2021/11/01 › the-geography-of-heating-oil-...

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tahanson43206 · 2023-01-03 10:26:14

This is a follow up to the recent post of RobertDyck #136, and my post #137.

The proposed project only needs ONE customer, and the total expense will (wild guess) total to less than $1,000,000 (USD).

As it happens, much of Canada is suitable for a test site, since (it appears) 39% of the population DO NOT use natural gas for heating.

A test site DOES NOT have to be an estate belonging to a wealthy person, although that is where it is natural to look for a First Customer.

Thanks to modern (generous) tax structures, a business can deduct the cost of heating from taxes earned, so a business which is currently using oil heating is a candidate to improve it's public image by converting to all fresh grown vegetable heating oil. It is only incidental that the tax payers of the respective country would be covering the cost.

Every member of the forum is (potentially at least) a salesperson for this concept. If there is a wealthy home owner, or a forward looking small business person among the circle of friends or acquaintances, then this proposal is available to toss in their direction.

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tahanson43206 · 2023-01-03 11:39:31

This post is a supplement to the concept of vegetable oil for home heating ...

Mexico has two conditions that would appear to favor massive growth of the peanut industry ....

It has the Sea of Cortex (Gulf of California) and it has a favorable climate and lands....

The country already has a peanut industry, without fresh water from the Sea of Cortez...

Per Bing:

will peanuts grow in mexico not new mexico
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Given its geographic and climatic diversity, Mexico has very favorable lands for growing peanuts. Peanuts are grown in 26 of Mexico’s 32 states, although it is estimated that eight states will produce approximately 85% of total Mexican peanut production in 2021. Peanut production employs 15,000 small farmers.
Peanut imports to Mexico will grow for two years: USDA
www.opportimes.com/peanut-imports-to-mexico-will-grow-for-two-years-usda/

I wonder why the US would be selling peanuts to Mexico.

The web site in the quote above provides answers:

1) US peanuts are judged to taste better (irrelevant if the peanuts are intended for the heating market)
2) Mexican farmers are moving from peanuts to more profitable crops

That tells me Mexican farmers could move back if the profit margins improved.

Arizona's outgoing Governor Ducey set up a possible fresh water supply deal with an Israeli company that specializes in desalination using reverse osmosis. It seems to me aiming to sell fresh water to the US (and specifically Arizona) is a misplaced ambition. The Nation of Mexico could use every drop of fresh water than any plant might produce, and the entire issue of US/Mexico negotiations can be eliminated.

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SpaceNut · 2023-01-03 20:48:22

Ah the illusion of green burn what happens when a carbon containing fuel burns, it creates co2 but to make it green there is a delay to allow for the plants to process it back in to the biomatter to which we need more energy to harvest and process it to the oil for reuse without regard for the waste products to be considered with each step as needed.
We hope that the number of atoms of oils burning that creates co2 is equal to all of the energy needs and waste otherwise we have a net plus of co2 over a period of the biomatter growth that is going to continue to contribute to a rising level of co2.

tahanson43206 · 2023-01-03 22:11:00

For SpaceNut re #140

Your post identifies/highlights the need to plan this activity carefully so that non-green energy inputs do not occur.

Prior to the introduction of below-the-ground fuels (with discovery of coal in England, and of oil in the US), wood was consumed by all levels of society. There was a delay before the CO2 fed back into green plants, so delay is part of the cycle.

However, as we (I for the moment) attempt to plan this home heating system, it is likely that the convenience of utility power will lead to introduction of fossil fuels into the process. With care in design, those intrusions should be kept to a minimum.

It seems (to me at least) inevitable that some fossil fuels will be consumed in building components to go into the home, but once tanks are loaded with fuel, the process ** should ** not require fossil fuels.

Your reminder of intrusion of fossil fuels into the flow is definitely worth keeping in mind.

That said, if the winter's supply of fuel is all sourced from living plants, and if the processes that make the fuel are all fueled by plant sourced materials, then the percentage of fossil source fuel that enters the flow should be small. it can probably never be zero. For example, machines that deliver product to the home are likely to be powered by fossil sourced fuel for years to come.

Never-the-less, the effort to price this out seems worth making. There may be a wealthy person willing to fund the experiment, and part of the contract would be to keep fossil sourced fuel use to a minimum.

Good suggestion!

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SpaceNut · 2023-01-04 19:39:40

So now we need to test the plant types such to know how long a give quantity of green fuel takes to be recovered by plants as its being used and made for use. Basically, a timed schedule of quantity to absorption to renewed quantities. Knowing how much was used for each piece of equipment through end use.

tahanson43206 · 2023-01-04 20:42:54

For SpaceNut re #142

Thank you for continuing to help this concept to develop! It seems to me (at this point, with limited knowledge of everything involved) that it might turn out that alcohol (made from plants in a separate process) might serve as a lighter weight component to improve the ignition capability of the vegetable oil. My (again limited) understand is that ? methanol is added to make biodiesel.

In the case of biodiesel, the “ester” is used cooking oil, which is combined with methyl alcohol, or methanol. A small amount of catalyst – usually sodium chloride – is added to the mix to kickstart a chemical reaction. The end results are methyl ester – the technical term for biodiesel fuel – and glycerin.Apr 15, 2020
How to Make Biodiesel From Used Cooking Oil - SeQuential

Corn is one of many plants that are (or can be) a source for alcohol.

One thing to keep in mind is that achieve 100% renewable energy is NOT a requirement for delivery of product to a customer. What the customer (presumably) needs is a supply of suitable green fuel to last a winter, including occasional intervals without utility power.

The goal of the initiative ** should ** be to achieve 100% renewable energy for all phases of the process.

However, instead of trying to estimate how much renewable fuel might be required to make a batch of heating oil for a customer, the simple thing to do is to simply measure what is required, and then replace the fossil fuel with renewable supply.

This is just a wild guess to try to set the stage for further work/discussion ....

If supply for a given customer for a winter's heating takes 100 acres for six months, then supply of the fuel to make biodiesel might be 20 acres.

In other words, the customer would pay for ** all ** the crop that is needed to deliver the winter's supply, just as (today) the customer pays for all the services between the underground reservoir and the automobile gas tank.

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SpaceNut · 2023-01-06 19:35:52

Make Your Own Fuel! Alcohol Fuel Basics. It takes some mechanical aptitude, but you can make your own fuel by fermenting appropriate feed stocks into 96 proof alcohol.

You can produce your own ethanol for an ongoing cost of less than $2 per gallon. If you grow your own corn, you can distill more than 300 gallons of ethanol from 1 acre of corn. If you drive less than 10,000 miles per year, you could produce all your own fuel from 2 acres of corn — and, granted, a lot of labor.
Compared to gasoline, ethanol emits about 20 percent less? hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide.
Recognizing the difference between beverage and fuel spirits, the Department of the Treasury came up with a simplified application for an Alcohol Fuel Producer permit (Form 5110.74), which designates a small producer as one who can make up to 10,000 proof-gallons of fuel per year. (A proof gallon is one liquid gallon of spirits that is 50 percent alcohol at 60 degrees Fahrenheit.) That’s enough to manufacture 5,263 gallons of 190-proof ethanol fuel. Each state has its own permit requirements, generally modeled after the federal rules. You’ll need to research taxes and any applicable state and local regulations. In any case, the fuel alcohol must be “denatured,” or rendered unfit to drink, by the addition of at least 2 percent by volume kerosene or unleaded gasoline.

One thing to remember is that the food can be spoiled for this purpose.

Do It Yourself! Build a Small-Scale Ethanol Fuel Plant

https://www.homestead.org/alternative-e … ohol-fuel/

page contains a table of foods that can be used

http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel … meCh9.html

or

tahanson43206 · 2023-01-06 21:05:27

For SpaceNut re #144

Thank your for this ** very interesting ** addition to the topic! If alcohol is used to modify peanut oil (or other heavy vegetable oil) to biodiesel, that might qualify as "denaturing" the alcohol. That is something that needs to be investigated.

On the other hand, since the business concept is to make thousands of gallons of biodiesel, it seems possible that state/federal regulations can be managed by a corporate compliance office.

If someone has time to investigate, the question of whether grain alcohol can be used to convert vegetable oit to biodiesel needs an answer for the purposes of this topic.

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tahanson43206 · 2023-04-12 18:27:21

The article at the link below reports on a NASA program to encourage entrepreneurs to develop solutions for space related activities.

https://spaceref.com/newspace-and-tech/ … -humanity/

NASA Launches Entrepreneurs Challenge to Advance the Agency’s Science Goals for Humanity
By Keith Cowing
Press Release
NASA Entrepreneur Challenges
April 11, 2023
LinkedInFacebookTwitter
Filed under Entrepreneurs, NASA
NASA Launches Entrepreneurs Challenge to Advance the Agency’s Science Goals for Humanity
NASA Entrepreneur Challenges
Today, NASA’s Science Mission Directorate launched the 2023 NASA Entrepreneurs Challenge. This year’s Challenge recognizes and supports entrepreneurs working on technology that advances the agency’s science goals, particularly in lunar exploration and climate science.
Reaching for new heights and revealing the unknown for the benefit of humanity doesn’t just require groundbreaking technologies; it requires visionary people. There are countless tenacious and innovative entrepreneurs working across the country on cutting-edge research and game-changing ideas of importance to NASA. The NASA Entrepreneur Challenge recognizes winning entrepreneurs with up to $1,000,000 in total prizes, provides winners with exposure to external funders and investors, and offers insight into how entrepreneurs can work with NASA in the future. NASA is particularly interested in reaching entrepreneurs from historically excluded communities, especially women, members of underrepresented minority groups, and persons with disabilities.
A follow-up to the previous NASA Entrepreneur Challenges in 2020 and 2021, this year’s Challenge focuses on two critical areas of need: lunar payloads and climate science. Prizes will be awarded to participants who successfully contribute ideas that further development and commercialization of technologies and data usage in these two broadly-defined areas.
In Round 1 of the Challenge, participants will submit a pitch deck alongside a technical white paper outlining the technology concept. Up to 20 organizations will receive $16,000 and advance to Round 2, where they will submit more detailed information and present at an in-person pitch event hosted at the Defense TechConnect Innovation Summit and Expo in Washington. Up to eight organizations will be awarded an additional grand prize of $85,000.
The pitch event will allow finalists to network with top agency, military, and industry leaders with exposure to venture capitalists and other impact funds. Winners from prior years have secured millions of dollars in investor funds, gained acceptance into accelerator programs, and won Small Business Innovation Research contracts following their participation in the challenge.
The Challenge: NASA’s Science Mission Directorate invites startups and entrepreneurs to participate in the NASA Entrepreneur Challenge to further the development and commercialization of technologies and data usage through an entrepreneurial lens to advance the Agency’s science goals for humankind.
The Prize: NASA’s Science Mission Directorate will award up to $1,000,000 in prizes to participants who can successfully contribute ideas that advance innovations related to lunar payloads or climate science. In addition, finalists will participate in an in-person pitch event where they will have the opportunity to present to and network with venture capitalists, impact investors, NASA scientists, and industry leaders.
Eligibility to Submit and Win Award: The prize is open to US persons aged 18 or older participating as individuals or as a team. Please see the challenge rules for complete eligibility requirements.
To learn more about the opportunity, visit www.nasaentrepreneurchallenge.org.

Keith Cowing

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SpaceNut · 2024-04-03 17:22:55

Not good Electric Vehicle Charging Station Company Files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy

Recently, a key EV infrastructure company called Charge Enterprises filed for bankruptcy in the US Bankruptcy Court. Their bankruptcy filing will be a blow to the industry in the US because Charge Enterprises is a manufacturer of EV charging stations, something the country is already in short supply of.
Lordstown Motors, an EV producer from Ohio, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2023 as it sold its assets and restructured its organization. On March 5, 2024, a debtor took control of the Chapter 11 plan.

tahanson43206 · 2024-04-29 12:52:31

The article at the link below is about difficulties faced by farmers in the UK and elsewhere as climate change does it's thing.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/farmers-warn … 00986.html

It seems to me that regions dealing with excess water have a better option than regions dealing with insufficient water.

Crops (like potatoes mentioned in the article) can be raised in structures that have removable roofing.

Most of the time the roofing would be laid aside the structure, but when excessive rain occurs, the roofing could be rotated over the crops to be protected.

The investment in elevated structure is significant (compared to just using a field as provided by Nature), but on the other hand, the crops can be protected for both planting (as described in the article), for growing and potentially even for harvest.

If I had the drawing talents of Void or GW Johnson, or even the engineering drawing talent of Calliban, I would show growing platforms with roofing that rotates overhead if excess rain occurs, or to the side under normal circumstances.

The investment in structures would be significant, but once installed these systems should help the farmer to manage water flows.

The roofing could even be made of solar panels, if they can operate in the side stowed position.

The business opportunity therefore, is available to the enterprising individual who can create and grow a business delivering and maintaining rain cover growing structures.

The opportunity would appear to extend to all regions where excess rain will occur due climate change.

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tahanson43206 · 2024-09-20 09:07:50

For SpaceNut .... the email quoted below is difficult to place in the context of this forum.

It is chock full of advice about doing business in Texas, but the overall tone is negative, in the sense that FriendOfQuark1 is deeply skeptical of the idea of storing energy in abandoned or marginal oil wells. It's not that the technology would not work. He has already confirmed it would work in a technical sense. What he is doing with this email, and others along the same lines, is to show how challenging it would be to try to win even a small part of the existing market for energy in Texas.

In the state of TX, you need what the oil industry calls a "land man". This is a specialized real estate professional that knows the going rates for optioning the land and appropriate royalty rate on the mineral rights. (You will need to negotiate a perpetual agreement, the standard contract has a limited term). This professional also is an expert in the peculiar laws and regulations around drilling for and harvesting minerals and presumably geothermal heat. My company did not play in that pond and I know little about it.
For storage, I think you are making things unnecessarily complex by adding solar/wind harvesting on site. There are people who already do that at great scale, are very good at it, have discovered efficiencies they can exploit, and especially have access to capital at a lower interest rate than you are likely to get. They can just do it cheaper than you can... In TX, the electricity markets are (largely) de regulated. A state agency known as ERCOT (energy reliability council of TX), runs both spot and forward markets for wholesale electricity and the market is segregated by the fuel/renewable source. You can enter contracts to buy cheap off peak renewable energy (that includes in TX, solar, wind, hydro, landfill gas, and co-generation) directly from the grid. You would then enter contracts (or use the spot market opportunistically) to sell on peak renewable energy back to the grid as a registered wholesaler for a profit. You will likely need to either have sufficient scale to hire your own energy trader, or contract with one of the brokering services to manage your supply and demand profile and hedge appropriately. Count on needing lawyers especially in the development phase.
For geothermal, a second well is not necessary. This isn't like OTEC exactly. You are producing low pressure steam and using that steam to spin a turbine. Extracting the mechanical energy causes the working fluid to condense back to liquid. You can return this liquid to the bottom of the heat reservoir via a smaller diameter pipe inserted directly into the well. For natural gas and coil boilers the Rankine Cycle is used, specifically the Triple Expansion Boiler. FF electricity plants produce enough heat that a second and third cycle are used whereby after the first turbine condenses the working fluid, it is vented to an expansion chamber that lowers the pressure and boils the working fluid again. This is repeated yet again after which point around 95% of the theoretically maximum Carnot efficiency for a heat engine has been achieved. A fourth cycle is not economically justified. You might not get three cycles with a working temperature of only 150F. The resource has value in much the same way as OTEC not because it is a quality source of heat but because it is an enormous reservoir that can be tapped at scale.
If you want to use a Stirling Cycle heat engine, using atmospheric air for a cold sink probably makes more sense than a second well.
A little math - The Carnot Efficiency if we assume a hot reservoir at 150F and a cold reservoir at 60F (from STP), the average efficiency would be about 14.7%. Theoretically of course. A triple expansion boiler would get you about 95% of that 14.7% and a Stirling Cycle would get you about 98% of same. This compares to the theoretical efficiency of OTEC which is about 4%. Delta-T matters!

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-09-20 09:52:15

Here's a follow up by FriendOfQuark1....

You wrote:
Is there any way to determine if existing wind and solar farms are using storage? I'm guessing they don't bother, since power can be routed where it is needed with modern electronics and appropriately sized switches.
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I'm not aware of any in TX. The state of Hawaii and some installations in Australia have utility scale battery storage but I have no intel on if that is integrated by the provider.
In TX, it would make little economic sense for a solar/wind provider to invest in their own storage. It is a rather simple matter to sell your production forward and to hedge yourself in a very liquid energy derivatives market. These installations have investors with expectations. Part of those expectations is to get exposure to wind/solar. That has a very specific risk/reward profile that is attractive to said investors. If you add the risk/reward profile of storage by integrating the solution, you perhaps scare off investors and end up paying a higher interest rate.
There are certainly people who find the risk/reward profile of storage attractive and I think it makes more sense to pair those investors with a storage project than try to attract the presumably smaller pool that wants to invest in a more expensive and more complex integrated approach. This is a feature not a bug of modern capitalism. Firms tend to specialize in areas where they have expertise. Since the 1950s there has been a "conglomerate discount" where a firm that is diversified into unrelated businesses trades for less than the sum of its parts.
A specialized energy storage business could laser focus on a single area of expertise. Any inefficiencies remaining in the pricing of intermittent energy could be exploited by such a group. You could buy cheap off peak energy (and specify renewable if you prefer) and sell it back to the grid at a profit during on peak demand. There is a daily "duck curve" that can probably be exploited. Plenty of renewable energy is already on the grid in TX.
There was a law, I think in the 90s that 1% of each player in the otherwise unregulated ERCOT market had to be renewable within I think 10 years. It never had to be enforced. Market forces resulted in a much larger market share for renewables without even needing incentives. ERCOT structures the contracts so pure fossil players buy the required portion from the renewable pure players. A rather large utility scale solar plant went up in the last 10 years in Bracketville (southwest of San Antonio). There are plenty of wind turbines on the mesas. I see trios of trucks hauling those 80 foot wind turbine blades on the highway basically daily. They are doing brisk business.
A quick aside: I have a small amount of passion for the Sabatier reaction. It is my opinion that a market for renewable methane surely exists. It should be possible to build a plant that converts atmospheric CO2 and water to methane and O2 as a byproduct rather cheaply by buying electricity off the spot market when it is at its lowest. In TX, overnight renewable energy is sometimes cheaper than free. The wind operators will pay you take product off their hands rather than feather their blades because they can still turn a profit on the Production Tax Credit. At some point, Oil and Gas, especially if there is a carbon tax - becomes so expensive that FF can be replaced with renewable oil and gas. Maybe I'm a dreamer.

The production of methanol has been discussed on more than one occasion in this forum.

As a reminder, this forum has a topic dedicated to the book:Beyond Oil and Gas: The Methanol Economy

(th)

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