New Mars Forums

tahanson43206

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Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,263

Re: NASA wants your help designing a Venus rover concept

Here's a follow up on this topic ... the competition was well supported by participants from around the world.

The mechanical probe concept was accepted by the participants, and the article at the link below reports on the winning designs.

https://www.engadget.com/nasa-venus-rov … 00222.html

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: NASA wants your help designing a Venus rover concept

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/winners-o … gn-contest

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7693

Automaton Rover for Extreme Environments, AREE is a rover concept with a mechanical locomotion approach capable of performing complex sequences of operations and instructions autonomously.
AREE would use a small wind turbine and a system of springs to generate and store mechanical energy that could power its locomotion. Think of how a wind-up pocket watch stores energy and drives the motion of its internal gears to keep the time, and you have a basic idea about how this machine would operate.

By replacing sensitive electronics and delicate computers with gears, components made from advanced heat-resistant alloys, and limited-capability high-temperature electronics, a more robust machine can be built - one that might last for months in the punishing environment.

Minimal electrical designs due to heat....

Calliban

Member

From: Northern England, UK

Registered: 2019-08-18

Posts: 3,777

Re: NASA wants your help designing a Venus rover concept

Interesting tech.  High temperature electronics.  It might have applications elsewhere that could be patentable.

I do have to wonder what the possible science goals could be for a Venus rover.  With Mars, we have the clear goals of searching for extraterrestrial life and building up knowledge base that will assist future efforts towards colonisation.  But neither goal is applicable to Venus.  It is a dry, volcanic desert, as hot as a furnace.  It bares a striking resemblance to the medieval description of hell.  Why go there?  What does the place have to offer?  Out of all the places in our solar system, it has the singular distinction of being less interesting than the moon.

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"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: NASA wants your help designing a Venus rover concept

Here is the topic for Mars_B4_Moon post

‘Sail Rover’ Could Explore Hellish Venus
https://www.universetoday.com/104296/sa … ish-venus/

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,263

Re: NASA wants your help designing a Venus rover concept

For SpaceNut ...

There are more than 25 topics that contain the word "Venus"

Here is one that might be suitable for development of Void's concept of a non-melting balloon that would explore just above the surface of Venus.

The topic has come along nicely, with input from Calliban, SpaceNut and especially kbd512.

Please think about whether you would like to have the forum (under your direction) make a proposal to NASA for implementation of Void's idea.

At this point, I think that Calliban's suggestion of a dirigible shape, with kbd512's suggestion of ALON covering, provides a (literal) framework to build upon.

We have alternatives of interior lifting gas of Oxygen (easy), Helium (hard) or Hydrogen (difficult).

The tradeoffs are buoyancy.  If the probe can be designed to use Oxygen as the lifting gas, that would be the best solution, because replacement Oxygen can be made by drawing in CO2 from the outside and ejecting the CO as propellant.

A possible source of electrical power might be the winds on Venus, if the probe can anchor itself to something in order to take advantage of the wind passing by.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: NASA wants your help designing a Venus rover concept

This is a surface rover and does not float with its main concept to not use high technology electronics if possible since all have failed so far as they require cooling and surface environmental conditions.

I think if we supplied a sphere with a vacuum for the isolation of the electronics that a non-high-tech rover could last with a beam able technology level of data to orbit.
We might be able to tether it to the rover so that it gets a view from a higher location by anchoring it to the rover.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,773

Re: NASA wants your help designing a Venus rover concept

(th) and others, please review this post, "Index» Terraformation» Worlds, and World Engine type terraform stuff." Post #627.  Thanks.

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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,263

Re: NASA wants your help designing a Venus rover concept

For SpaceNut re Post #31

It is helpful to be reminded of the original post in this topic.  The image of a wheeled rover with a propeller to obtain power from wind is striking.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: NASA wants your help designing a Venus rover concept

Mechanical energy of wind is sort of an unknown but if its available it sure could if consistent do what we want for a Clockwork design.
Clockwork reminds me of the old grandfather clocks with the weights to make motion occur due to the gravity but with no one there to re-raise the weights it would be a onetime power and done.
That does beg for a power then for it to move by and to allow for any instruments even old tech to communicate its findings with.

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,263

Re: NASA wants your help designing a Venus rover concept

For SpaceNut re #34

It might be time to revisit this topic, now that NASA has discovered/invented electronics that can operate at the temperatures at the surface of Venus.

In the related topic, kbd512 showed that a material called ALON can persist despite the temperatures at the surface of Venus, and if the electrics can operate there, it seems to me the way forward is to design a traditional rover, with the propeller to capture wind energy.

As a follow up, if you (or anyone) has time, would be to add information about winds at the surface of Venus.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: NASA wants your help designing a Venus rover concept

If we get military parts, its does get easier to make but that is a big if for any use.

PLANETARY STORM CHASERS: NEW FINDINGS ABOUT VENUS’ WIND SPEEDS

The dense atmosphere causes little variety in temperature between Venus’ two hemispheres. Surface winds are slow, only a couple of miles per hour, but at the top of the sulfuric acid clouds in its atmosphere, the winds are incredibly fast, around 185 mph. Interestingly, the winds on Venus move up to 60 times the planet’s rotation speed.