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Free Spirit

Member

Registered: 2003-06-12

Posts: 167

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

California always seemed like a very progressive state.  How disappointing that it recalled the governor and put a Republican in the office.  I can see why the upper class and well to do would vote Republican in order to "protect" their wealth as much as they can, but why on Earth would ordinary workers want to risk their benefits, minimum wage, education, etc. by electing a right winger?  Let's hope it's just a temporary bout of insanity.  :angry:

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My people don't call themselves Sioux or Dakota.  We call ourselves Ikce Wicasa, the natural humans, the free, wild, common people.  I am pleased to call myself that.  -Lame Deer

Josh Cryer

Moderator

Registered: 2001-09-29

Posts: 3,830

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

Because the TV tells them to.

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Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Mark Friedenbach

Member

From: Mountain View, CA

Registered: 2003-01-31

Posts: 325

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

California always seemed like a very progressive state.  How disappointing that it recalled the governor and put a Republican in the office.

Not to mention that hasn't stated his position on any issues.  And what little he has said is undeniably and verifiably wrong.  And I mean in the 2 + 2 = 5 sense.  Jezus, what's wrong with this state? :angry:

-A confused californian.

PS: 50% vote for arnold?  Good lord!  how can that many people be so stupid?

:EDIT: sorry, just had to vent some steam :EDIT:

Josh Cryer

Moderator

Registered: 2001-09-29

Posts: 3,830

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

There's an interesting poll that notes that no one really expects the recall to fix anything. Which would quite obviously suggest that this was merely a celebrity election; provoked by sensationalism in the media. Personally, I found it all quite amusing, though I did hope for a No on Recall success (just because then it would become obvious how ridiculous the whole thing was). Didn't work out that way. But at least those progressives out there can be content that Arnold is about as far right as any other democrat. So it's not like we have a totally conservative governor.

Oh, and last I saw, her had a 10k vote majority (that is, he had 10k more votes than the No on Recall votes). So he has a plurality; the fact that he does makes me rest at ease, because then I would question his legitimacy.

BTW, the negative ads hurt the democrats and helped Arnold. Typically, Republicans don't care about negative ads, but Democrats tend to frown upon it, espesically when it's plastered all over the place.

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Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

California always seemed like a very progressive state.  How disappointing that it recalled the governor and put a Republican in the office.  I can see why the upper class and well to do would vote Republican in order to "protect" their wealth as much as they can, but why on Earth would ordinary workers want to risk their benefits, minimum wage, education, etc. by electing a right winger?  Let's hope it's just a temporary bout of insanity.  :angry:

*Well, Arnie's now "inherited" quite a quagmire.  Good luck.  He's never been involved in politics before, and now he's Governor of a huge state with lots of problems.  Yeah, he's got big-shot advisors and etc.; but I wouldn't have voted for him, based on his lack of political experience.  But I'm certainly reminded of the fact that Minnesotans (who I thought had more brains and general common sense) voted Mr. Jesse Ventura into the MN governorship. 

Cruz Bustamante probably would have been the best choice for California, of all candidates and at this point in time.  As for Gray Davis, IMO he deserved to get "das boot."

I'm glad I don't live in CA (no offense to Californians); what a mess. 

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

[color=#000000:post_uid5]We get a fair bit of coverage of this sort of thing here in Australia and, as I understand it, Arnold copped plenty of criticism because of his tendency to grab women by the breasts when the opportunity arises.
    Today, I came across a brief article in The Australian newspaper, which was taken from a website called 'andrewsullivan.com', whatever that is! It is entitled: " ... on the differences between Bill Clinton and Arnold Schwarzenegger" and here it is:-

~Clinton was faced with actual civil lawsuits, claiming sexual harassment. Once private life gets dragged into the courts, the press has no option but to cover it.
    ~Most of Clinton's sexual targets were women who worked for him or were under his direct authority. Some of Arnold's targets were on movie sets where he certainly had social power but where he was, as far as I know, not the owner or direct boss.
    ~None of Arnold's incidents involve actual sex, or exposure of sex organs, or alleged rape, whereas Clinton's did.
    ~Arnold has fessed up. Clinton lied under oath.
    ~Arnold hasn't exactly gone around saying he is a champion of women's rights and the dignity of women. Clinton did.
    ~All of Arnold's incidents were one-off. Clinton, for the most part, pursued the same women over time.[UNQUOTE]

    I'd heard of the Monika Lewinsky debacle in general terms but I still don't know all the details, except that Clinton indulged in some extra-marital activities with a Whitehouse intern (Monika) and then lied into the camera about it! Since then, it appears, Hillary has been fairly economical with the truth in stating she had no idea about the affair until Bill told her. This has been portrayed by her critics as an attempt on her part to keep a lid on things in case it proved politically too costly. Is she really possessed of that much sang-froid?! Phew ... she must be one hard-nosed woman!
    But this description of Bill's sexuality goes further than I realised and paints a chilling picture of his predatory behaviour with women. Is this a true and fair summary of the habits and misdeeds of the former president?

    If you can believe even half of what Arnie is accused of, his behaviour has been thoroughly reprehensible. And the fact that he was prepared to make a public apology is a pretty good indication all of it is probably true.
    But the above (quoted) article about Bill makes Arnie look like little more than a relatively harmless boorish yahoo in comparison.

    It seems you Americans have the same problem we have here in Australia, low-lifes on both sides of the political fence! It can be a sad world at times.
                                     [/color:post_uid5]

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The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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Byron

Member

From: Florida, USA

Registered: 2002-05-16

Posts: 844

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

Here's my take on this...California elected Arnold because they see him as a better alternative than a career politician...even though most people agree that he'll make a terrible governor!

What I don't understand is, why do most of the people that do get elected to office insist on raising taxes and cutting services??  Don't they understand they want *more* services at *less* cost to them?  You hear about private businesses doing more for less, year in and year out...this is how economies grow over the long term.  So why should government be any different?

Let's all chant now:  What do we want?  More for less!  When do we want it?  Now! 
 

B

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

We get a fair bit of coverage of this sort of thing here in Australia and, as I understand it, Arnold copped plenty of criticism because of his tendency to grab women by the breasts when the opportunity arises.
    Today, I came across a brief article in The Australian newspaper, which was taken from a website called 'andrewsullivan.com', whatever that is! It is entitled: " ... on the differences between Bill Clinton and Arnold Schwarzenegger" and here it is:-

...    But this description of Bill's sexuality goes further than I realised and paints a chilling picture of his predatory behaviour with women. Is this a true and fair summary of the habits and misdeeds of the former president?

    If you can believe even half of what Arnie is accused of, his behaviour has been thoroughly reprehensible. And the fact that he was prepared to make a public apology is a pretty good indication all of it is probably true.
    But the above (quoted) article about Bill makes Arnie look like little more than a relatively harmless boorish yahoo in comparison.

                                     

*Poor oversexed Arnie.   :;):  Well, he will -have to- keep his hands to himself from now on.  If I'd been one of the women he allegedly groped (and he did admit in a TV interview I viewed that some of what has been said against him "does sound like me, in some ways"), I would have told him to stop.  If he wouldn't stop, I'd slap him.  But I think Arnie's a pretty nice guy and I think (I HOPE!) he would respect a woman's serious request to quit touching her...but he shouldn't get all touchy-feeling to begin with, unless such behavior were invited. 

Shaun:  Interesting differences you point out between Clinton and Arnie.

::EDIT::  Monica Lewinsky, to my knowledge, wasn't exactly "victimized" by Clinton (as opposed to Paula Jones' claims).  Monica reportedly tried (successfully of course) to entice him by flashing bits of her underwear to him.  She was 22 or 23 years old when she did this...certainly old enough to understand that no man is going to merely brush that off as "a little joke/prank;" she knew what she was doing, and so did he of course.  Sad thing is, Monica has probably ruined the rest of her life as a result; it's been going on 6 years since the scandal broke and none of her attempts to get into business for herself (handbags) or break into Hollywood have yet been successful.  She's a joke to many people; in fact, she had such low self-esteem a few years ago that she parodied her fling with Clinton on "Saturday Night Live"...parodying herself, of course.  This, despite the fact that that TV program has (at least a couple of times) produced skits outright ridiculing her. 

And it goes without saying that Monica made an enemy of Hillary Clinton...who is one woman I would NOT want to be on the wrong side of for a variety of reasons, for no good reason.  Yipes.

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

dickbill

Member

Registered: 2002-09-28

Posts: 749

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

To Arnold Discharge, you should also remenber that he grew up in Austria, not far from Italy. I don't know how is the "code of bonne conduite" there, but in Italy, you all know I guess, that touching and pinching is a common thing. I never been in Italy I admit, and things maight have changed, but I remember many stories of foreign women complaining of the Italian male behavior, it is not just talking, it is also touching. So maybe Arnold has a small cutural difference in that issue.

Now hopfully, any anglo-saxon man knows that to approach a woman, the safest way is to fill a form of consentment, sign it, and start a platonic internet-chat for 6 months, to be sure any legal issue has been set up before engaging into real interaction. Unless you are an actor in the Bachelor/ette, in which case you can have sex for money, but then, it's not sex, it's bussiness, which is legal in the US.

clark

Member

Registered: 2001-09-20

Posts: 6,374

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

My govenor can beat up your govenor.

For you direct democracy advocates, take note, see the inherent problems of a democracy that is undone by a populist demagogue.

For you republic types, take note, see the inherent problem of partisan politics undoing a working government. Instead of worrying about the needs of california, they worry about the needs of the party.

Davis deserved what he got. He screwed up, and yeah, a lot of it wasn't his fault, but the man is dirty. Consider it his come-uppance for the games he played while Rioardin was trying for the Republican nomination during the last election (he probably would have won too). Not to mention the fact that Davis was taking what ammounted to bribes to help out special interests pet legislation. I don't blame him for the power crisis, but I do blame him for the Oracle debacle and a whole littany of other things. While I have mixed feelings about the recent change to DMV laws, it was blatant pandering, yet another strike against that yahoo.

I am very happy McClintock didn't win. That is the true Republican. That is the true social conservative. Govenor Schwa... damn, I can't spell my own govenor's name. My govenor is at least socially progressive, even if his hands are liberal...

For those of you who don't knwo how Hollywood works, when a movie is going to get made the very FIRST thing they do is try to get an Actor/Actress to sign up. In other words, movie dosen't get made unless you get that A list talent. They ARE the movie. So I for one understand why no one has complained about Arnold. They can't. They do, well, movie, and job, and not to mention career (small community in Hollywood) are over. Celebrities don't go to jail... well, most of them. Hell, OJ got away with murder. Welcome to California.

But all of that aside, I will wait and see how the govenor does. Judge thy deeds. And, i still harken to those idealistic days of youth when I was told ANYONE could be a leader of our country. Just becuase he is an actor dosen't mean he can't lead, or he can't be effective. Jobs, class, positions- these shape you, but they don't make you.

But, enough of my rants.  :laugh:

Pat Galea

Banned

From: United Kingdom

Registered: 2001-12-30

Posts: 65

Website

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

why on Earth would ordinary workers want to risk their benefits, minimum wage, education, etc. by electing a right winger?

Arnold -- for lack of a better governor -- is good.

Arnold is right.

Arnold works.

Arnold cuts through, clarifies, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Arnold in all of his forms -- Terminator, Commando, Running Man -- has marked the upward surge of mankind, and Arnold -- you mark my words -- will not only save California, but that other malfunctioning corporation: the U.S.A.

clark

Member

Registered: 2001-09-20

Posts: 6,374

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

Well, I'm not sure I am prepared to go that far... 

Arnold hasn't said much. And it still is questionable on his ability to break up the legislative gridlock that is hampering California's ability to do anything.

He isn't really a die-in-the-wool Republican, and he certainly isn't a Democrat (though he is b marriage). The real test will be if he can capitlize on his 'presence' to make changes to the legistlature- in other words hold their feet to the fires. He might be able to do that since he isn't a hack, and he can only go as far as Senator now.

Billions in debt and a sluggish state and national economy... i don't know if the Kindergarden Cop can handle this one.

Josh Cryer

Moderator

Registered: 2001-09-29

Posts: 3,830

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

I like the Arnold/Enron conspiracy.

Oh, and Alec Baldwin is my hero.

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Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

Davis deserved what he got. He screwed up, and yeah, a lot of it wasn't his fault, but the man is dirty.

*He was also extremely abusive of underlings, including physical aggression; he apparently shoved a staffer (secretary?) in her 60s, hard.  The woman was so shaken by the incident that she quit.  I would have pressed charges against him.  Gender isn't the issue, however; what IS the issue is that there is no place for physical violence/aggression in the workplace.  I was shocked to find this out about Davis; sure, as a politician he's already got some dirt on him, but he looks like Mister Rogers' (of kiddie-show fame) long-lost brother.  He also reportedly screamed obscenities at his underlings, etc.  Imagine if he will do stuff like that in public, around witnesses, what he's doing behind the scenes.

Hasta la vista, jerk.

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Byron

Member

From: Florida, USA

Registered: 2002-05-16

Posts: 844

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

Davis deserved what he got. He screwed up, and yeah, a lot of it wasn't his fault, but the man is dirty.

*He was also extremely abusive of underlings, including physical aggression; he apparently shoved a staffer (secretary?) in her 60s, hard.  The woman was so shaken by the incident that she quit.  I would have pressed charges against him.  Gender isn't the issue, however; what IS the issue is that there is no place for physical violence/aggression in the workplace.  I was shocked to find this out about Davis; sure, as a politician he's already got some dirt on him, but he looks like Mister Rogers' (of kiddie-show fame) long-lost brother.  He also reportedly screamed obscenities at his underlings, etc.  Imagine if he will do stuff like that in public, around witnesses, what he's doing behind the scenes.

Hasta la vista, jerk.

--Cindy

Gosh...I had no idea about ex-governor Davis.  Had I been around that kind of an unacceptable situation, it'd be whistleblower city for me... ???

I guess Arnold looks like a saint in comparision...

Kudos to good ol'-fashioned democracy, California-style! 

B

Mark Friedenbach

Member

From: Mountain View, CA

Registered: 2003-01-31

Posts: 325

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

But this description of Bill's sexuality goes further than I realised and paints a chilling picture of his predatory behaviour with women. Is this a true and fair summary of the habits and misdeeds of the former president?

No.  The Clinton-Lewinsky affair was 100% consentual, and started by Monica Lewinsky (as cindy said).  They had a bad breakup and Monica, in her infinite wisdom, decided to get revenge.  Yes, he did lie about it at first but the actual act wasn't a crime.  As for all the other wannabe scandals, there was never any evidence to make a case (Paula Jones got a settlement because she would not let the story die, even after having the case thrown out of the courts).

Josh Cryer

Moderator

Registered: 2001-09-29

Posts: 3,830

Re: Republicans sack California - How on Earth?

Monica didn't want it to be made public, actually. That bitch she confided in recorded their conversations, though.

Davis probably should've resigned before it all began. It would've done him and the state of California a lot of good.

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Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.