New Mars Forums

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

'Out in the Chinese desert, about 19km southeast of Dongfeng and the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center, there are what seem to be some satellite calibration targets under construction.'

https://twitter.com/Harry__Stranger/sta … 8883369984

Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) was a cancelled Mars mission that was originally intended to launch in 2009 and would have established an Interplanetary Internet between Earth and Mars. Deep Space Optical Communications (DSOC) is a laser space communication system in development meant to improve communications performance 10 to 100 times over the current radio frequency technology without incurring increases in mass, volume or power. The system must correct for background noise (scattered light) from Earth's atmosphere and the Sun. The performance of the uplink is expected to be 292 kbit/s at a length of 0.4 AU distance. Laser communication in space is the use of free-space optical communication in outer space. Communication may be fully in space (an inter-satellite laser link) or in a ground-to-satellite or satellite-to-ground application. Japan's National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT) will demonstrate in 2022 the fastest bidirectional lasercom link between the geosynchronous orbit and the ground at 10 Gbit/s by using the HICALI (High-speed Communication with Advanced Laser Instrument) lasercom terminal on board the ETS-9 (Engineering Test Satellite IX) satellite.

Space-X is currently exploring ideas for Laser Communication

PDF
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/file … 150910.pdf
,
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/july2014/ … Poster.pdf

Absorption and reflection of radio waves in the Martian ionosphere

Solar control of radar wave absorption by the Martian ionosphere

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com … 06GL026637

The MARSIS active sounder aboard the Mars Express spacecraft, under certain conditions in the Martianionosphere, fails to detect the planetary surface. We have generated a statistical measure of the surface reflectionvisibility, which we plot as a time series and compare with both in situ particle data taken at Mars and solar x-ray datataken at Earth. We show that loss of the surface signal is closely related to the influx of solar protons at tens of MeVenergies. We infer that the influx of high energy solarprotons causes impact ionization, increasing the electrondensity in the Martian ionosphere. At altitudes close to orbelow 100 km, where the electron-neutral collision frequency is high and the electron density typically has a local maximum, the increased electron density raises thedamping coefficient to levels sufficient for complete absorption of the sounding wave over an altitude range of a few tens of kilometers.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-24 11:20:46)

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

NASA awards contracts to assess near-space communications capabilities
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA … s_999.html

India's Mars Orbiter Mission has ended after 8 years. It was designed to only have a 6-month lifespan
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/india-mars … -research/

On Earth maximum distance of radio communications are usually limited by the Earth curvature and propagation conditions in the atmosphere or the ionosphere, the radio Communications over the horizon usually require more power and a directional antenna.

On Planet Earrth with the correct equipment you had the rare option of Earth-Moon-Earth radio,  the Moon is at about 384,000 km away  aprox 238,600 miles from the Earth (so 760000 km go and back) and it reflects only 7% of the energy received by the Earth, the receive signal is about 200 times weaker than transmitted; subject to a loss between 242 and 296 dB depending on frequency Signals are also regularly lost in the ionosphere due either to the faraday effect the phase rotation between 50-1296 MHz change in the spatial polarization between the emitter & receiver, the Doppler effect as both celestial bodies are in movements 350 Hz shift on 144 MHz or due to QSB induced by the Moon libration a signal returns very very very weakly and often noisy found using a spectrum analyzer. The amateur radio people do EME or Earth-Moon-Earth signal contests with big expensive equipment but perhaps Mars satellites or its Moons could serve as an orbiting station to reflect laser communications and have Mars been in touch with ground and other planets. How far would you need your sats to replay messages, the Mars L1 Lagrangian Point on Mars, could you beam signal to the Lagrange points of the Moon of Earth, then back to Sun–Mars Lagrange points the Jupiter Trojan or Sun–Jupiter Lagrange points, a message from Callisto or Ceres, and have a network set up that remains in constant communication with Mars? A constant stream of messages even when one planet is away on the opposite side of the Sun?

2003 publication

Distortion of radar pulses by the Martian ionosphere
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/7770963

Arecibo Won’t Be Rebuilt
https://www.universetoday.com/158125/ar … e-rebuilt/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-10-18 07:55:18)

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

Record-breaking chip can transmit entire internet's traffic per second. A new photonic chip design has achieved a world record data transmission speed of 1.84 petabits per second, almost twice the global internet traffic per second.

https://newatlas.com/telecommunications … t-traffic/

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Communication on Mars

I was reminded by tahanson43206 that during the convention Elon musk had indicated the need for a satellite to relay communication to earth from mars when the sun is in between the planets.

I would think that two would be better than 1 as you can have one orbiting ahead of mars and 1 trailing it by 90" of the orbital path.

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

Are There Better Ways to Communicate with Mars?
https://www.universetoday.com/160424/ar … with-mars/
Mars is a long way from Earth, making it challenging to communicate with. That difficult communication is becoming ever more important as we launch more and more craft to the Red Planet. It will become absolutely critical when we send actual people there. So what can be done to increase the speed of communications between our solar system’s blue and red planets? A paper from researchers primarily based in Spain looks at different networking topologies that could help solve some of the communication problems. 

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

Nasa’s Artemis II mission to stream hi-res videos from Moon – using lasers

https://www.independent.co.uk/space/nas … 34689.html

With people living on the planet then Mars could have accidents

Will methods like sky wave propagation be used in Mars communication or rescue

Over 40+ years ago,a ship struck Bridge in Tampa Bay, Florida and a portion of the bridge to collapses and leading to 35 fatalities from cars and a bus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j9jdXnnJm4

'Mayday Mayday'

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-05-10 03:57:37)

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

Space laser communications from the moon.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sc … ace-lasers

Calliban

Member

From: Northern England, UK

Registered: 2019-08-18

Posts: 3,768

Re: Communication on Mars

This may be of interest.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/200 … 039526.pdf

Given that Mars has an ionosphere, global communications can be accomplished using long wave radio.  Data transmission rates are limited, due to the reduced ion density of the ionosphere relative to Earth.  But it is fine for voice communication.  A CB radio would work on Mars.  Faster data transmission can be accomplished by transmitting simultaneously on multiple frequency bands.  As Mars doesn't have commercial radio, there isn't really a problem with transmitting multiple digital signals over broad bands.  Digitalisation and computational signal compilers allow multiple parralel signals to be transmitted over compressed bandwidth.  Additionally, computers can store data in buffers and transmit over many hours.

A comms system based on digitalised long-wave radio may be cheaper than satellite based systems employing short-wave directional beams.  This should be something that can be developed relatively cheaply.

Last edited by Calliban (2023-05-19 17:02:04)

---

"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

First Astranis internet satellite working ‘perfectly’ as company readies to bring coverage to 'hundreds of thousands' Alaska by mid-June

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/24/astrani … ectly.html

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

Interesting concept for China's concept for its Queqiao communications/navigation/remote sensing constellation for lunar but also Mars and Venus exploration, with orbiters, relay stations in GEO, assets in EM-L1, EM-L2, use of Beidou, separate crewed landing and ILRS areas.

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1670842241869398157

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

Artemis II laser communication platform prepares for lunar voyage

https://optics.org/news/14/6/35

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

maybe they can replay info by way of Venus or the Asteroids or Lagrange points when Earth and Mars are on opposite sides of the Sun

'Extending Earth's Internet to Mars With Orbital Data Servers'

https://www.universetoday.com/162083/ex … a-servers/

You’ve done it. After years of effort and training, sacrifice, and pain, you become an astronaut and have finally set foot on Mars. Time to post your triumph on TikTok for that sweet social media cred. If only you can get a signal.

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

Changguang achieves milestone in satellite laser communications

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Chan … s_999.html

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

China builds new radio telescope to support lunar, deep-space missions

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Chin … s_999.html

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

perhaps also a study of the thermosphere and parts of the mesosphere and exosphere can help

Rocket Lab Moves Into System Integration Phase for NASA's Mars Mission
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Rock … n_999.html

The spacecraft are equipped with various instruments. These include a magnetometer for gauging the magnetic field, an electrostatic analyzer for ion and electron measurement, and a Langmuir probe to determine plasma density and measure solar extreme ultraviolet flux.

another old thread 2003

Terraform - Mars Magnetic Fields Problem

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=436

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-10-24 05:16:32)

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Communication on Mars

How to build an internet on Mars

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/mar … ver-psyche