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#1 2022-03-19 12:47:49

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,142

Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

Large Ship Prime is: Large scale colonization ship by RobertDyck

This topic is offered as a way to consolidate posts about manufacture and testing of components for Large Ship to be done on Earth.

Posts entered into this topic will (hopefully) remain on topic, so that a future Large Ship planner can focus upon the topic.

It should be noted that this topic is intended to cover both the design unique to Large Ship (Prime) and other designs.

In both cases, what I am looking for are contributions that will be useful and hopefully valuable to future builders.

(th)

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#2 2022-03-19 18:59:32

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

The large ship has many items that will be brought from earth to be installed into the large ship.

While some items will be standardized with furnishing, I am thinking more in line with the types of medical equipment or the appliances in the kitchen.

Special items such as the computerized navigation controls will be assembled and wired from much small sections.

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#3 2022-03-23 19:14:57

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

Many items will attempt to be commercial off the shelf for use in the large ship to keep it from becoming an engineering exercise. It would also be the same for the mars surface we want to provide goods that are low cost but we know that they will function.

What are the components?

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#4 2022-03-23 20:14:12

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,142

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

For SpaceNut re #3

Your observation about what a component is (or is not) inspired me to try to understand the term a bit better.

In this context, we are considering an engineering project .... There may be components available off the shelf.  We should definitely look for opportunities to use existing components when it makes sense to do so.  However, we ** are ** talking about building a structure/system that has never existed before.

I asked Google for help, and it came back with some snippets:

What is component? - Definition from WhatIs.com - TechTarget
whatis.techtarget.com › definition › component
In programming and engineering disciplines, a component is an identifiable part of a larger program or construction. Usually, a component provides a ...
What is Component Engineering? - Learn.org
learn.org › ... › Engineering and Engineering Technology FAQs
Component engineering involves the selection, maintenance, design and construction of smaller parts for larger machines. Component engineers are...
Component engineering - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Component_engineering
Component engineering is an engineering discipline primarily used to ensure the availability of suitable components required to manufacture a larger product.
Missing: hardware | Must include:hardware

It seems to me that for the purposes of ** this ** topic, we would not be talking about supplies that might be brought aboard ship to serve passengers or crew.

What I had in mind when opening this topic was such elements as the Habitat module (as you pointed out), the Central Hub (again as you pointed out) and a complex set of parts that would provide for flow of forces between the central hub and the habitat ring, ** and ** the cylindrical passageways that would permit passengers and crew to move between the central hub and the habitat ring.

The passageways should under NO circumstances carry ANY of the load between the habitat ring and the central hub.  They are incapable of handing any lateral load whatsoever, and should not be subjected to compression or tensile loads.

Early drawings/renderings of Large Ship (Prime) are artists' drawings only and under NO circumstances should be construed as engineering drawings, or even engineering suggestions.

(th)

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#5 2022-03-23 21:14:16

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

Such things then as a heating and cooling would be made from earth testable parts but integrated into the large ships overall ability to control the environment from a central control console. They would make use of zone like sensing assemblies to feed information to they console for user input to make or keep current settings.
The system would also contain ventilation fans and sensors for co2 levels to cause suction to draw off any excess through to a processing assembly that could be a compressor and storage tanks.

Other such components would be in the waste and water dispensing and recovery of the plumbing. The total system would be the remaining purifying and other sanitation aeration of this. Other processes to make some into chemical fertilizer and food for the chloroplast system is another of the component builds that will spread out through out the large ship as well.

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#6 2022-03-23 21:21:28

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,142

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

For SpaceNut re #5

Thanks for picking up on the theme!

it seems to me that while Large Ship has never been created before, large aircraft are a pretty good model to consider.

RobertDyck has been using ocean going passenger vessels as the starting point for his vision, but that starting point can only take this project so far. 

Your post gives a sense of how to think about the components of a large system such as Large Ship ...

(th)

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#7 2022-03-24 06:07:25

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,142

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

For SpaceNut re topic ...

There is a need to precisely identify the components of Large Ship ....

The problem is complicated because we have two major variations already, and more will develop naturally, as participants focus on particular features.

The obvious major split already is between the Unitary Rotation model, advocated by RobertDyck, and the Counter Rotating model advocated by kbd512.

At the moment, it appears (to me at least) that only the Unitary Rotation model is receiving attention.  That could change, but for the time being, it seems safe (again, to me at least) to concentrate on components of Large Ship (Prime).

The Structure would be hierarchical ...

Major component (eg, Habitat Ring)
  Sub component A - (eg, pressure wall at circumference of ring)
    Sub component A1 - (eg, panel shipped from Earth to be welded in LEO)
      Dimensions/measurements/materials/characteristics ** and ** provider details including bid prices
         Provider bids - there should be a minimum of three bids, in tried and true US standard practice

The natural structure for organization of information along these lines is a database.

Microsoft (and other major vendors) offer free cloud storage space for experimental projects.

It is well within the capability of ordinary individuals such as those who've become members of NewMars forum to develop applications that run in one or more of these free online services.

The FluxBB forum data structure (as we've noted previously) is not optimized for long term data storage.  However, the Free Dropbox facility we've begun using appears to be reliable and worth considering as a residence for a Bill of Materials database.

Open Office is a free software (there are others, such as Libre Office) and these systems run on every (major) operating system.

it ** should ** be possible for anyone currently a member of the forum, or likely to be added in the future, to run this software.

Thanks again for your participation in and support of this new topic.

(th)

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#8 2022-03-24 20:43:01

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

Components are the smaller pieces that are used to make up the system in which they are made to make it work as intended.

Managing the systems for use is why we need to come up with what they are first and not the unknown list of parts as to where they could be used.

A system for hull leak detection is required to listen for strikes and then for the hiss of air escaping, Others are pressure sensors in lots of places to detect changes. You need a display console that shows what is happening and where.

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#9 2022-03-25 06:47:57

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,142

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

For SpaceNut re #8

SearchTerm:Component Sensor network

This component can be selected from a great profusion of offerings available on Earth today.

Please follow up by posting a list of at least three vendors who produce the kind of sensors (and if possible, a complete solution) you believe we need.

At this point, we know the area to be covered by the exterior ring pressure wall ... 238 x 19 meters (to be increased slightly in length)

Your chosen vendors should be able to offer equipment, wiring, computer software and human interface to cover the needs you've identified.

(th)

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#10 2022-03-28 06:35:50

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,142

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

In the Zoom session of 2022/03/27, kbd512 provided support for the concept of building as much of each component (of Large Ship) as possible on Earth.

We already have a topic set up for exactly this procedure, so I'd like to take advantage of it for the hull panel component.

In the Zoom session of 2022/03/27 the decision was reached to set the width of the hull panel to be manufactured on Earth as 2 meters.

This means that 119 panels will be assembled on orbit to create the outer hull surface of the Habitat ring of 238 meters. 

kbd512 ** also ** recommended that "former" and "stringer" elements be welded to the panels on Earth, so they can be bolted together on orbit.

While details are yet to be defined, I predict that the structure elements to be added will be steel, so they can be welded to the panels.

kbd512 is committed to bending the panels on Earth to match the required curvature in the lateral dimension.  That curvature is 360 degrees / 119 panels, or 3 degrees over the 2 meter width.

Thus, the "former" segments must match the planned 3 degree curvature of the panels, while the stringers will not because they will run the full 19 meter length of the panels.

However, the stringers need to be longer than 19 meters, because they will join with the corresponding wall stringers.

We need visualization tools to prepare for procurement, manufacturing, shipment via Starship freight carriers, and assembly on orbit.

We have Blender and Fusion 360 available now, and we (taken as a group) have some modest experience with these tools.

We also have several members with demonstrated skill in use of 2 dimensional drawing tools.

The necessary key decisions having been made, I expect to see the pace of definition of components and assembly procedures picking up in coming days. There are thousands of components to define, procure, manufacture and assemble.  That chain of events follows from the recent simple decision to fix the dimensions of the hull plates.

(th)

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#11 2022-03-28 19:23:45

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

I like the even meter width as it makes the pre-cut easier to handle with the welding jig to hold the panels until the weld is finished.

Remember that as you apply a layer inward to form the isogrid and then the inner hull the sheets will shrink in the 2m widths by the thickness of the sheets materials depth or thickness.

The should have welds that fall in between the welds of the other panels to keep the combination of layers stronger.

The angle for the panels will change ever so slightly but its the inner most closes to the hub that will change the most.
1024px-Circle_arc.svg.png

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#12 2022-09-25 09:38:40

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

This video reminded me of the construction techniques for large ship build

https://youtu.be/JmGb2r9XvOs


https://youtu.be/JmGb2r9XvOs

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