Mars InSight lander

GW Johnson · 2021-04-16 16:25:12

Sure. But it is expensive.

GW

SpaceNut · 2021-04-16 18:50:02

I get you with the impactor modified for going deeper by continued forces. Sure if the thrust were a upward pointing such as to able to apply the force in opposition to fuel penalty for the use and its also going to depend on the ability to throttle that force as required as to much is just over kill for fuel use and not enough would be of no benefit to igniting the thrust in the first place.

SpaceNut · 2021-06-03 20:12:11

The solar panels are very dirty and now NASA Mars lander dumps dirt on itself to battle dusty solar panels

The move worked because larger sand grains carried smaller dust particles off the surface of the panels. It was timed for a windy part of the day. "Sure enough, with winds blowing northwest at a maximum of 20 feet (6 meters) per second, the trickling of sand coincided with an instantaneous bump in the spacecraft's overall power,

So pushing without scratching the surface....

Mars is nearing its farthest point from the sun, which means InSight was already gathering less sunlight.

tahanson43206 · 2021-06-04 04:49:30

For SpaceNut re #203

Thanks for this report of an idea by a staff member being given a try! Nice to see the attempt, and the improvement in performance.

Future rover designs might include the ability to tilt the solar panels, which would improve performance of this locally sourced cleaning method.

It took decades (and the addition of a scoop arm long enough to reach over the solar panels) for this idea to appear.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-06-25 21:31:34

GW reported on the solar power levels...
NASA's InSight Mars lander might die by April if it doesn't get a significant energy boost

Spring is coming for when the rovers temperature will use less power to keep warm but its also the time when dust is going to gets higher in the atmosphere blocking the critical sunlight from hitting the already covered panels.

BB1fDQYt.img?w=768&h=768&m=6

InSight's solar panels are already about 80% obscured, and their daily energy production has dropped from nearly 5,000 watt-hours to less than 700 watt-hours, Banerdt said, according to Foust.

SpaceNut · 2021-07-23 20:41:36

Mostly in a hibernating state at this time scientists are however getting plenty of time to look at the collected data from the seismic unit. In historic first, NASA spacecraft maps what lurks below the surface of Mars

A team reviewing the potential for InSight to extend its mission last year warned that the spacecraft's power margins would require new measures to keep going after July 2021. Otherwise, power levels "are likely to reach critically low levels during the proposed EM [extended mission]" that ends in December 2022, compromising potential science return, the panel said at the time.

The first try on May 22 increased energy output by 25 to 30 watt-hours, he said. But the second and third attempts only showed a moderate increase, although he said the three cleanings offered "a little bit of headroom that we didn't have before."

That is a huge drop from when it first landed November 2018, when the robotic lander was generating roughly 5,000 watt-hours of power...

of course the thoughts we have had are answered next

While relying on solar panels may seem risky in such a dusty environment, doing so lessens the amount of mass at launch, lowering cost and complication for the mission, JPL officials said. Adding dust-removing brushes or fans could add failure points or problems to a long-running mission.

unlike solar nuclear does not have this issue

Bigger NASA Mars robots such as the Perseverance and Curiosity rovers use nuclear power, making them more flexible in working in severe environments — but also more dependent on dwindling plutonium-238 decay levels over time. Perseverance, which just landed in February, should have enough power to go for 14 years, NASA officials have said. Curiosity is still going strong, nearly nine years after landing on Mars in August 2012.

the next problem if its getting more power later is communications as the

The next major mission challenge for InSight after aphelion will be around Oct. 7, when Earth and Mars are on opposite sides of the sun. This period of "solar conjunction" happens every two years and can interrupt signals between the planets, so NASA stops active communications with its Mars missions for a few weeks as a precaution.

GW Johnson · 2021-07-24 10:03:46

The panels on Insight were deployed as horizontal surfaces, and without any dust removal capability. For a lander intended for a long mission, that was a very serious, very stupid, design mistake, with consequences that were entirely predictable. As was also the mole "drill" rig.

Most of the press releases are intended to shift attention away from those totally-egregious design mistakes. The only one that is not intended from the outset to divert attention from incredibly bad management decisions, is what the seismic instrument has found. Being more successful than expected, it served to divert attention anyway. THAT one was not made in the USA, by the way. It is French.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-07-24 10:06:01)

SpaceNut · 2021-07-24 10:20:23

It sort of had to be after a 2 year wait plus to get it fixed for possible continuation of the insight mission to begin with.

SpaceNut · 2021-09-23 19:35:48

2nd times he charm hope...

Seems that insight has survive its low power and is doing science NASA's InSight lander has finally detected 3 big Mars quakes, including one that lasted nearly 90 minutes

The robot beamed the data from its seismometer back to Earth, and NASA scientists realized they had what they'd been waiting for: a big quake. Insight had recorded a magnitude 4.2 Mars quake - the kind NASA scientists had been wanting to observe since Insight touched down on the red planet in November 2018.
Two other big ones recently rolled through, too: On August 25, the lander felt two quakes of magnitudes 4.2 and 4.1.
Before these, the biggest quake the lander had felt was a 3.7 in 2019.
Saturday quake was five times more energetic than the 3.7-magnitude rumble.
InSight has detected more than 700 quakes in total, and they've revealed a lot about the planet's interior already. Scientists have learned that Mars' crust is thinner than they thought, and that it's more like the moon's crust than Earth's - it's broken up from asteroid impacts.

The panels look like this after 1000 sol's on mars

BB1fDQYt.img?h=799&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

ust a meir 30 whrs was enough to keep it on

In June, the team was preparing to shut down the seismometer, and Banerdt told a NASA group that the lander's life might not last past April 2022, according to SpaceNews.

SpaceNut · 2021-11-23 20:24:45

NASA Mars lander makes 1st ever map of Red Planet underground by listening to winds

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-12 05:36:11

Magma makes marsquakes rock Red Planet

https://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Magma … t_999.html

Volcanic activity beneath the surface of Mars could be responsible for triggering repetitive marsquakes, which are similar to earthquakes, in a specific region of the Red Planet, researchers from The Australian National University (ANU) suggest.

New research published in Nature Communications shows scientists from ANU and the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing have discovered 47 previously undetected marsquakes beneath the Martian crust in an area called Cerberus Fossae - a seismically active region on Mars that is less than 20 million years old.

The authors of the study speculate that magma activity in the Martian mantle, which is the inner layer of Mars sandwiched between the crust and the core, is the cause of these newly detected marsquakes.

Calliban · 2022-04-12 05:53:41

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

Magma makes marsquakes rock Red Planet
https://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Magma … t_999.html
Volcanic activity beneath the surface of Mars could be responsible for triggering repetitive marsquakes, which are similar to earthquakes, in a specific region of the Red Planet, researchers from The Australian National University (ANU) suggest.
New research published in Nature Communications shows scientists from ANU and the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing have discovered 47 previously undetected marsquakes beneath the Martian crust in an area called Cerberus Fossae - a seismically active region on Mars that is less than 20 million years old.
The authors of the study speculate that magma activity in the Martian mantle, which is the inner layer of Mars sandwiched between the crust and the core, is the cause of these newly detected marsquakes.

Looks like a good place for a Martian base.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_Fossae

Recently active volcanism and liquid water outflows. That means good geothermal resources and liquid water aquifers. Exactly what is needed for a large base. Even a low temperature geothermal reservoir would be useful, providing the heat needed for surface greenhouses. Having accessible liquid water is also important. It would otherwise take around 1MJ of heat to defrost a single litre of water from permafrost. This aquifer water will probably be brine, so we still need ion exchange membranes to desalinate. But that is a lot less energy hungry than have to warm up and defrost the permafrost regolith.

SpaceNut · 2022-05-17 20:29:48

The end of operation may becoming soon as Dusty demise for NASA Mars lander in July; power dwindling

SpaceNut · 2022-06-19 07:05:17

Funny how the one piece of equipment that delayed Insight going to mars is the last that is still giving back science. Even with dirt covered panels.

NASA's InSight Still Hunting Marsquakes as Power Levels Diminish

Equipped with a pair of solar panels that each measures about 7 feet (2.2 meters) wide,
When InSight landed, the solar panels produced around 5,000 watt-hours each Martian day, or sol – enough to power an electric oven for an hour and 40 minutes. Now, they’re producing roughly 500 watt-hours per sol – enough to power the same electric oven for just 10 minutes.
If just 25% of InSight’s panels were swept clean by the wind, the lander would gain about 1,000 watt-hours per sol – enough to continue collecting science. However, at the current rate power is declining,
seasonal changes are beginning in Elysium Planitia, InSight’s location on Mars. Over the next few months, there will be more dust in the air, reducing sunlight – and the lander’s energy. While past efforts removed some dust, the mission would need a more powerful dust-cleaning event, such as a “dust devil” (a passing whirlwind), to reverse the current trend.
“We’ve been hoping for a dust cleaning like we saw happen several times to the Spirit and Opportunity rovers,”

SpaceNut · 2022-09-24 19:41:48

The lander that will not die is still alive and maybe it may go back on line soon as winter is about to end.
The brave little Mars lander that could is keepin' on keepin' on — even though it was supposed to die months ago.

SpaceNut · 2022-10-29 10:53:34

NASA's InSight lander detected a meteoroid impact on Mars

Insight felt it back in December 24th, 2021 and later viewed by MRO revealing a 492-foot gash in the landscape.

46a56810-5624-11ed-bce2-83056d970b88

The meteoroid is believed to have been somewhere between 16 and 39 feet long. It would have burned up in Earth's skies, but it was large enough to survive Mars' extra-thin atmosphere. The impact was violent, digging a hole 70 feet deep and tossing debris as far as 23 miles away from the crater. It also exposed subsurface ice that hasn't been seen so close to the martian equator before now. A sound adaptation of Insight's data (below) shows just how "loud" the event was compared to Mars' regular activity.

That make 2 pieces of data for mars from a single event. The image shows either frost or water ice or possibly co2 dry ice that an image cannot be used to verify what it is.

tahanson43206 · 2022-10-29 11:19:58

For SpaceNut re #216

Void offers a word for this: Lithobraking

Void reported hearing this work in an Isaac Arthur presentation.

The image you provided in #216 shows an excellent example of "Lithobraking".

The goal of the Ballistic Delivery project is to achieve delivery of non-living payloads to Mars without the drama.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-12-22 23:36:39

News articles have indicated that the lander has finally lost communication and is powered off as the panels no longer are producing power.

SpaceNut · 2023-11-25 11:12:35

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

using little pebbles of sand and dust to clear other dust?
NASA’s dirty dilemma: How Martian dust is crippling space probes
https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/na … ace-probes
Dust has always been a problem when exploring Mars.
t InSight did manage to clear some dust using its robotic arm. Counterintuitively, it poured more sand onto the panels. This ran straight off,but not before sending up a bunch of dust already on the spacecraft. The procedure was done during the windiest part of the day, so the lifted material was blown away.

It was tried with minimal success that was temporary.

GW Johnson · 2023-11-26 12:29:50

The 3 ways known here to remove dust are (1) using compressed gas to blow it away, (2) brush it away, and (3) use water to wash it off, then dry the surface before more dust makes mud.

Tactic 3 doesn't seem suited at all on Mars, where even if we did have water to "waste" that way, it would freeze before we could clean the surface, much less dry it.

The other two both risk scratching the surface.

I'm unsure how much compression pressure might be needed to do reliable dust removal in that thin atmosphere with a compressed gas stream. But for compression to Earthly-range pressures, your "compressor" starts looking more like a hard vacuum pump than a compressor as we know them here. Just something to think about.

The brush idea could be a simple as a windshield wiper design that substitutes long, thin brushes for the rubber wiper blades. Less contact pressure is needed, so the springs can be a lot weaker and therefore lighter.

I'm actually somewhat disappointed that last idea hasn't been tried yet.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2023-11-26 12:31:47)

SpaceNut · 2023-12-01 19:51:39

New study finds Mars's liquid iron core is smaller and denser than previously thought

Mars’s Interior May Have an Extra Layer of Molten Rock

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#201 2021-04-16 16:25:12

Re: Mars InSight lander

#202 2021-04-16 18:50:02

Re: Mars InSight lander

#203 2021-06-03 20:12:11

Re: Mars InSight lander

#204 2021-06-04 04:49:30

Re: Mars InSight lander

#205 2021-06-25 21:31:34

Re: Mars InSight lander

#206 2021-07-23 20:41:36

Re: Mars InSight lander

#207 2021-07-24 10:03:46

Re: Mars InSight lander

#208 2021-07-24 10:20:23

Re: Mars InSight lander

#209 2021-09-23 19:35:48

Re: Mars InSight lander

#210 2021-11-23 20:24:45

Re: Mars InSight lander

#211 2022-04-12 05:36:11

Re: Mars InSight lander

#212 2022-04-12 05:53:41

Re: Mars InSight lander

#213 2022-05-17 20:29:48

Re: Mars InSight lander

#214 2022-06-19 07:05:17

Re: Mars InSight lander

#215 2022-09-24 19:41:48

Re: Mars InSight lander

#216 2022-10-29 10:53:34

Re: Mars InSight lander

#217 2022-10-29 11:19:58

Re: Mars InSight lander

#218 2022-12-22 23:36:39

Re: Mars InSight lander

#219 2023-11-25 11:12:35

Re: Mars InSight lander

#220 2023-11-26 12:29:50

Re: Mars InSight lander

#221 2023-12-01 19:51:39

Re: Mars InSight lander

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