Booze

SpaceNut · 2022-08-27 10:11:26

Seems that almost any food source can and is used to make alcohol products...

BeerMan · 2022-08-29 05:47:32

For producing beer, barley and wheat are common grains. Brewers have also used rice and corn. In fact, some of the larger corporate brewers use rice and corn as "adjuncts" to barley as a way to speed up the fermentation time. Rice and corn have more sugars that the yeast can consume and produce alcohol. However, with corn in particular, the final beer can be very cloudy. It was discovered that beer drinkers didn't like murky lagers. The industrial breweries then added a chemical to strip out the cloudiness. When beer drinkers became aware of the use of chemicals, they moved away from those beers. Now, these industrial brewers will use high fructose corn syrup instead.

tahanson43206 · 2022-08-29 06:33:48

For BeerMan re #177

Thanks for the history of changes in the beer industry as technology advanced and consumers reacted. There's probably a book or two "out there" on that chemical experiment alone.

In the spirit of the My Hacienda initiative, please consider posting a list of supplies you would need from vendors, to support a beer production facility on Mars. For planning, the number of plots (enterprises) is 7800, but each plot may have multiple humans on site. Not everyone consumes alcoholic beverages, but there are non-alcoholic variations that might be of interest to some Mars residents.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-08-29 19:12:49

That is also the difference between kits, small batch brewing and full out brewery for scale of operations.

I think that some of all sizes are required to give craft beers to standard product.

tahanson43206 · 2022-09-01 07:22:34

For BeerMan re wooden bar on Mars ...

Dr. Lewis Dartnell is author of a book on how to cope with disruption of civilization, called The Knowledge. He maintains a web site for discussion of the book and related topics. For some time, admission has been limited, due to the incessant traffic of spammers. However, unlike SpaceNut, who closed off pathways for spammers entirely, Dr. Dartnell allows spammers to apply for admission. This results in the member list growing, because applicants are shown in the member list, but unlike with NewMars, which suffered 20,000 such applications, Dr. Dartnell's forum only gets a few each month.

I keep a light presence at the forum, and thus am able to see the applicants and their pitches as they arrive.

The latest one might be of interest to you. The gent is offering to build a custom wooden bar.

That is actually a useful and rare skill set. It would be even more useful and even MORE rare on Mars.

One might suppose wood could be imported to make a ** real ** Earth-style proper bar.

However, in the spirit of My Hacienda, I'd like to encourage consideration of what it will take to grow the trees needed for a genuine Mars sited wooden bar, and to provide the infrastructure that would be needed to support a craftsman of this caliber.

I expect that genuine wooden furniture and paneling would be highly desired by Mars residents, so setting up a tree growing operation would be guaranteed to have well-heeled customers willing to support the venture.

If you are interested in contacting the maker-of-wooden-bars, I'd be happy to pass along the link.

Over time I've noticed that the spammers at Dr. Dartnell's site seem to be trending toward real-world, honest service offerings.

In the early days, the offers seemed to be primarily in poor taste or downright illegal, but perhaps (apparently legitimate) advertisers are putting money into the spammer business.

(th)

BeerMan · 2022-09-02 07:35:46

For thanason43206-- What might be more helpful than number of plots would be a ballpark estimation of the number of Mars residents. That would give me an idea of the size of the barrel system required for a brewery.

Wooden bars are nice. My brewery has a wooden bar in our taproom; it does get pretty banged up though. I'm not sure how the conditions on Mars might affect a wooden bar.

By the way, I was notified that my paper abstract for the Convention next month has been accepted! I'm planning to attend in person and I hope I'm able to folks on this forum for good conversation...perhaps over a frosty brew.

tahanson43206 · 2022-09-02 17:27:24

For BeerMan ... congratulations on acceptance of your paper! I expect your session will be better attended than most, and you may even set a record! GW Johnson reported that 5 of his 11 papers were accepted. See the topic: GW Johnson postings. I am not sure (at this point) GW Johnson will be able to attend the actual conference, but if he ** is ** able to attend, please look him up.

Regarding an estimate of population ... My Hacienda is set up by specialization, not by population. Each specialization will involve multiple people, but the actual number will be determined by the entrepreneur who undertakes the venture.

The entire idea of My Hacienda is to have ** all ** the specializations defined and tested on Earth, before a single person ventures to Mars. The early explorers are going to test and measure the environment, just as the robots are doing now. My Hacienda is NOT ** that ** .... My Hacienda is a complete, working, integrated community intended to land, set up shop, and succeed from the beginning.

It is altogether fitting that the first ** real ** business that might serve as the starting spark is yours.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-09-02 18:05:57

here is the link to the My Hacienda On Mars topic but that is a good question as to how many are on a plot.

I think the initial were to be small starter landings of under a couple dozen but that was to be way more when we get to starship levels of 100 and then larger amounts with more starship landings occurring at the same time.

BeerMan · 2022-09-13 06:03:01

My Hacienda is interesting "proof of concept" approach. As for a brewery, it reminds me of what American colonial taverns were like. They served as important community meeting locations and often doubled as courthouses and churches until those structures were built. There is a section of my paper that explores how and where beer will be consumed on Mars. Would drinking establishments on Mars serve a similar community purpose? Would people at My Hacienda gravitate (forgive the pun) to the brewery's taproom at the end of the day?

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-13 06:18:18

Probably not safe, will we one day in the far future use these places as fuel pit stops.

'The Truth Behind The Giant Cloud Of Alcohol In Space'

https://www.grunge.com/638683/the-truth … -in-space/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-13 06:19:16)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-13 15:03:38

Will the Mars colonist be banned on using transport if the person has recently used drugs or alcohol?

Birch Sap, it can be made into a Wine

How to tap birch trees for drinkable sap
https://www.mensjournal.com/uncategoriz … kable-sap/

Mark Smith: The strange case of the booze ban on Scottish trains

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics … sh-trains/

Salmon Vodka – The Liquor Collection
https://theliquorcollection.com/liquors … lmon-vodka

Prized for its health benefits, tourists and Kyrgyz locals can't get enough of this fermented horse milk
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-21/ … /101354342

New release wines
https://www.winecompanion.com.au/articl … -september

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-21 17:13:44

City crew destroys Philadelphia Brewing Company’s hops for its fall beer, owners say

https://www.audacy.com/kywnewsradio/new … rvest-beer

The Bartons said they will lose tens of thousands of dollars in revenue as a result of CLIP’s actions.

RobertDyck · 2022-09-21 19:12:09

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

City crew destroys Philadelphia Brewing Company’s hops for its fall beer, owners say
https://www.audacy.com/kywnewsradio/new … rvest-beer
The Bartons said they will lose tens of thousands of dollars in revenue as a result of CLIP’s actions.

This is infuriating! We have similar problems here in Winnipeg. Several years ago a home owner contacted me for help. I was president of a community association at the time. He had 10 acres of land still zoned agricultural, although a rich residential neighbourhood had been built around him. His agricultural land was no longer accessible by any road, only a gate from the back yard of his house. He grew grapes vines for personal consumption, just table grapes. A contractor hired by the city thought the vines were just overgrowth and cut them down. Again this was land specifically zoned agricultural! That's malicious destruction of private property!

BeerMan · 2022-09-27 05:39:20

Philly isn't too far from where I live. I can see city workers not bothering to consult the property owner and just doing what they want. I hope the brewery can get some sort of financial recovery, but it will likely only be for the value of the hops but not for the lost sales of the seasonal beer. (Although a good legal team might be able to do it, but then the brewery has to lay out the money for lawyers). What a shame.

SpaceNut · 2022-09-27 20:40:20

They do not have the right to enter private property and should be sued for all they are worth....

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-10-05 08:07:07

'The ins and outs of sake: What the Japanese alcoholic beverage is and how it's made.'
https://www.yahoo.com/now/ins-outs-sake … 22496.html

Microbiologists improve taste of beer
https://phys.org/news/2022-10-microbiologists-beer.html

GABF 2022: A guide to the best breweries and beers at the festival
https://www.axios.com/local/denver/2022 … eries-tour

and in the topics of fungus and mushrooms the discussion of Laws on Mars or Space colonies and Recreational drug use comes up in discussion

Convention on Psychotropic Substances of 1971 is a United Nations treaty designed to control psychoactive drugs such as amphetamine-type stimulants, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, and psychedelics signed in Vienna, Austria. Arguments some from political or science people or some from ex members of the drug culture community said that along with negative health effects, drug use led to lowered moral standards. United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances of 1988 is one of three major drug control treaties currently in force. It provides additional legal mechanisms for enforcing the 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs and the 1971 Convention on Psychotropic Substances. The Convention entered into force on November 11, 1990. Much of the treaty is devoted to fighting organized crime by mandating cooperation in tracing and seizing drug-related assets and as of June 2020, there are 191 Parties to the Convention.

Some say there are positives and it can be used in a controlled method and micro dosing of Mushrooms can help Depression

'Are Magic Mushrooms the Next Cannabis Industry? How Entrepreneurs Can Prepare'
https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/magic … ortunities

BeerMan · 2022-10-06 05:56:48

Mars_B4_Moon, thanks for the interesting links--the microbiology study was especially interesting. Given how climate change has already altered the color and look of beer, tinkering at the micro level may save it: https://www.nbc15.com/2022/09/02/climat … -industry/

As for the GABF, my brewery partner and brewer are there now. We entered a Belgian ale in one of the competitions. Fingers crossed!

GW Johnson · 2022-10-08 15:55:34

BeerMan:

You are scheduled to speak at the convention in the slot right after I am to speak, on Friday, but in a different room. I plan to be there, and hope to meet you.

Wife and I will be attending the banquet Sat evening. We are staying at a hotel close enough to walk onto campus. I have a presentation Thursday, 2 Friday, and 2 Saturday.

GW

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-10-10 11:44:56

If Mars has hundreds of people and a religion puritan party gains political power will it be able to ban booze? Most places on Earth have alcohol acess, even in the Middle East people smuggle. Even in the South Pole you can find a Bar and some say Scientists in Antarctica Drink and Maybe even Drink Too Much

Booze and Drugs maybe morality issues or mental health issues will come with this?

and if banned would it only give power to an illegal gang??

Eighteenth Amendment (Amendment XVIII) of the United States Constitution established the prohibition of alcohol in the United States. The amendment was proposed by Congress on December 18, 1917, and was ratified by the requisite number of states on January 16, 1919. The Eighteenth Amendment was repealed by the Twenty-first Amendment on December 5, 1933. It is the only amendment to be repealed.

Banning Booze gave the Mafia power, Alcohol smuggling known as rum-running or bootlegging and illicit bars speakeasies became popular in many areas.

What Does The Atf Say About The Moonshine Shows?
https://www.moonshine-maker.com/recomme … shows.html

'How real is the show moonshiners?'

Moonshiners is an American docudrama television series on the Discovery Channel produced by Magilla Entertainment that dramatizes the life of people who produce (illegal) moonshine in the Appalachian Mountains of Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia. The series dramatizes their liquor production efforts, law-evading techniques and life.
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/moonshiners/about-show.html

Portions of the show that feature Marvin "Popcorn" Sutton were taken from a documentary film by Neal Hutcheson. Hutcheson's documentary was filmed in 2002 and released the same year with the title This is the Last Dam Run of Likker I'll Ever Make. In 2008, a version of the documentary that was edited for television was broadcast on PBS and the Documentary Channel with the title The Last One, and it received a Southeast Emmy Award in 2009. Sutton was arrested in 2007 by ATF agents in Cocke County, Tennessee (led by Jim Cavanaugh of Waco siege fame) for illegally distilling liquor and possession of a handgun by a felon, and was sentenced to eighteen months in jail in 2009. He subsequently died by suicide, apparently to avoid serving the federal prison term, and because he had been diagnosed with cancer

old article 2009

Widow: Moonshiner took his life to avoid jail
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna29763094
Famed Appalachian moonshiner Marvin "Popcorn" Sutton, whose incorrigible bootlegging ways were out of step with modern times, took his own life rather than go to prison, his widow says

As Biden announces marijuana pardons, expert says Texas still has a ways to go
https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/arti … ays-to-go/

Cops busters, criminal cops are caught conducting illegal searches and planting evidence and the only thing their department’s chief officer has to say is that the actions taken to find this out were childish?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSOkmOqnteU

Surprising Ways Bottled Beer Is Different Than Draft

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/surpris … 04385.html

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-10-10 12:18:40)

BeerMan · 2022-10-13 06:56:07

Hi GW, please say hello after my presentation on Friday. It would be great to meet you!

MarsB4, access to intoxicants seems to be an enduring human debate. I imagine that there will be some sort of constraints on the production, distribution and consumption of alcohol on Mars. A change of planet will lead to a change in human behavior. The constraints on alcohol will likely still be a mix of formal and informal social control. Formal social control is exercised through institutions--cops, courts, etc. Informal social control comes from sources like family, community and churches. When I was teaching, I used to ask two questions to my students to give them an idea of the differences between the two types of power:

1) Imagine you're back to being 8-10 years old. How many of you were afraid of the police? Raise your hand. (Very few if any students raised their hands.)

2) Okay, you're still 8-10 years old. How many of you were afraid of your mom? (Way more hands go in the air).

Heck, I'm still afraid of my mom! LOL.

So, yeah, how we approach alcohol on Mars will be some mix of these types of power.

tahanson43206 · 2022-10-13 07:08:07

For BeerMan re #195

Thank you for your observations and for the glimpse of a teaching career.

I realize your time is limited, but you might enjoy a six post series by GW Johnson about teaching.

You can find it using the search tool. Look for "EducationDoneRight" author: gw johnson and select Posts instead of topics.

The series should pop right up.

(th)

RobertDyck · 2022-10-13 17:19:34

I live in a province of Canada called Manitoba. It's north of the border with North Dakota. In this province it's now legal to home distill. Yes, I just said moonshine is legal here. It wasn't in the 1970s, not sure when the law changed, but is legal now. I was careful to read the laws before buying equipment myself. Many of the stores that sell equipment and supplies for home-made beer and wine, now also sell equipment and supplies for home distilling. The rules for home distilling are the same as beer and wine: you can make anything you want for personal consumption, but are not allowed to sell. Trading is considered the same as selling, so it's not allowed. You can give away some to your friends and family: Christmas gift, gift for other reasons, or just to show off the results of your hobby. If you want to sell, then you must acquire a commercial license. And licensing required for commercial production and sale of any alcoholic beverage is long and complicated.

Canada and the US both had prohibition, but at different times. The mafia made money both ways. When it was legal in Canada but prohibition in the US, they smuggled booze south from Canada. And vice versa. Here in Manitoba, prohibition came into force in 1916. The political party that did that lost the next provincial election. The other party immediately repealed prohibition, in 1920. Although it was repealed, the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission (MLCC) was a government owned corporation (crown corporation) with a monopoly to sell booze. Eventually beer could be sold, the the law said the vendor had to provide a place for people to sleep it off. Because of that, beer vendors were attached to hotels. Not all hotels had a beer vendor. Today it's not necessary to provide a place to sleep it off, but due that history all beer vendors are still attached to a hotel. There are some wine stores today, but they're only allowed to sell wine, nothing else. In 1963 someone challenged the MLCC in court. The courts ruled that home made beer and wine were allowed. However, the MLCC still would not allow home distilling. Since the end of prohibition the law did not prohibit home distilling, but the corporation used its influence as a crown corporation. The MLCC was replaced by Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries in December 2013. I suspect the authority that allowed MLCC to enforce something that was not in law was gone when MLCC was dissolved.

What I have is a countertop distiller. It was designed for water, only accepts 1 US gallon (3.8 litre). It doesn't use water for cooling, only a fan to blow air across radiator fins. So it works like a home bread maker. Fill it to the fill line, put a catch jar under the spout, and press the button. When distilling water, it will automatically shut off. When it boils dry the heat causes shut off. But when distilling booze, the first little bit will have methanol so has to be discarded. Then the head will be strongest. As it continues to distill, strength of alcohol that comes out will decline. You must cut it off at some point. If you let it go to automatic shutoff, everything you put in will come out, so no change in strength of alcohol. I have been distilling to 50% alcohol, then steep orange zest and spices in a tea ball to infuse flavours. Once infused, I add buckwheat honey. The result is honey liqueur with 35% alcohol by volume (ABV). Irish Mist and Glayva use heather honey, but heather doesn't grow here, it's too cold, so heather honey is not available. Generic honey has a mix of whatever flowers the bees were able to find; I found the flavour is not good. To make good honey liqueur, I need good quality honey from a single plant. Clover honey is available, but the flavour is too mild. So I use buckwheat honey. Making liqueur with the equipment I have takes time. The countertop distiller takes a couple hours for each batch, so distilling 24 litres at 3.8 litres at a time takes days. There is larger equipment available, but I bought my countertop distiller over Amazon for $80 US with free shipping. A 25 litre still made from a commercial coffee urn has a custom lid to make it a pot still, or a different custom lid to make it a reflux still. Cost of a complete unit with reflux condenser costs $799.95 plus tax in Canadian dollars, or with the Alembic pot lid and condenser costs $999.95 plus tax Canadian. The Alembic pot lid is larger, more copper. You can see why I got the countertop unit. But the coffee urn unit is needed if you want to make greater volume.

On Mars, everything will be do-it-yourself. So expect home made booze to be legal and common.

tahanson43206 · 2022-10-13 18:14:02

For RobertDyck re #167

Thanks for the history reminder (compare and contrast) and for your insights and experiences!

Bees came up recently, in one of Mars_B4_Moon's posts .... the link I remember reported on a practice that is taking hold in Europe, to put bee gardens on top of bus stops. The gardens are heavy, so the bus stops have to be built more strongly, so they are only installed when a bus stop is replaced. That might take a while, but Europe is a place of patience and persistence.

SearchTerm:distilling liquor at home
SearchTerm:liqueur distilling at home - note observations about bee diets

(th)

Calliban · 2022-10-14 06:16:58

Re Robert, I am envious. To distill in the UK, a licence is needed even for personal consumption. To get it, premisses and equipment must be inspected and logs must be kept of what is produded and what is used.

tahanson43206 · 2022-10-14 07:33:44

For Calliban re #199

Thanks for your report on the end point of the tumultuous history of the region where you live!

While my exposure to that history is necessarily limited, I have been granted glimpses of various royal attempts to impose order on a (still) cantankerous bunch.

It is amazing (to me for sure) that such restrictions as you describe persist, but I deduce there are good and sufficient reasons for them.

For Mars, the freedom to produce various products and to deliver various services may depend upon the tolerance of the folks cooped up with the perpetrator in a small volume of shared air.

For that reason, much as we see varying levels of tolerance in human communities that have natural barriers (such as those on islands) I would expect to see widely varying cultures on Mars.

And for that same reason, I suspect that Earth cultures will set up shop on Mars and do all they can to exclude underdesirable outside influences.

The dream of some here in the forum to see an open society where everyone is welcome to do whatever they want on Mars seems (to me at least) overly optimistic.

(th)

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