New Mars Forums

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,796

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Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

From the 4-11-22 “Daily Launch”
Sharp Rocks Force Curiosity To Turn Back
CNET News (4/8) reported that NASA’s Curiosity rover encountered “knife-edged rocks” on the Greenheugh Pediment on Mars. NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Curiosity Project Manager Megan Lin said, “It was obvious from Curiosity’s photos that this would not be good for our wheels. It would be slow going, and we wouldn’t have been able to implement rover-driving best practices.”

Looks to me like two similar rovers tell exactly the same tale:  aluminum wheels are a bad idea in the rocks,  especially sharp rocks.

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

The second part of the equation for break down is the rovers speed and mass for movement. The fatigue is sort of like ringing a bell over and over with how it fractures the wheel surface.

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

Perseverance captures video of solar eclipse on Mars
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Pers … s_999.html

NASA’s Ingenuity Mars helicopter continues to defy expectations
https://nypost.com/2022/04/20/nasas-ing … ectations/

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

Mars Ingenuity helicopter has a dead sensor, but it may still work

https://www.cccam7.com/free-cccam-cline … ccam7-com/

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

NASA's Perseverance Studies the Wild Winds of Jezero Crater

wow the level of wind that is all over the place....

insight could use this to clean its panels...amazing....

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

NASA Gives a Detailed Analysis of all the Landing Debris Perseverance Has Found on Mars
https://www.universetoday.com/157400/na … d-on-mars/

Images of EDL Debris
https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/mission/ … dl-debris/
Written by Justin Maki, Imaging Scientist and Mastcam-Z Deputy Principal Investigator at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Ingenuity, nicknamed Ginny, is a small robotic coaxial rotor helicopter operating on Mars as part of NASA's Mars 2020 mission along with the Perseverance rover,
Ingenuity Helicopter Marks 30 Flights on Mars
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/339 … ts-on-mars

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Posts: 29,431

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

NASA's Perseverance Found Green Sand on Mars — Here's What That Means

Olivine-rich rocks are pristine and considerably easier to examine and analyze.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

Perseverance rover finds organic matter 'treasure' on Mars

The rover’s mission, which began on the red planet 18 months ago, includes looking for signs of ancient microbial life. The site of the delta makes Jezero Crater, which spans 28 miles (45 kilometers), of particularly high interest to NASA scientists. The fan-shaped geological feature, once present where a river converged with a lake, preserves layers of Martian history in sedimentary rock, which formed when particles fused together in this formerly water-filled environment.

Currently, the rover contains 12 rock samples that could have preserved these telltale biosignatures. “The rocks that we have been investigating on the delta have the highest concentration of organic matter that we have yet found on the mission,” said Ken Farley, Perseverance project scientist at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

Perseverance Is About to Drop Its First Sample Cache, NASA Says

We are now in a waiting game to get something there to mars that can bring it back...

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

Dusty and cold, sure – but Mars has a certain, raw beauty.
https://twitter.com/nasapersevere/statu … 6279454721
Dawn at the Red Planet, with high clouds floating by. Take time to look up.

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

Mars helicopter Ingenuity snaps incredible aerial photo of Perseverance rover during 51st flight

https://www.space.com/mars-helicopter-i … -flight-51

also a story on Space dot com

Perseverance Mars rover snaps Dusty Ingenuity helicopter

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

Ingenuity Mars Helicopter preps for next flight on the Red Planet
https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/sc … red-planet
NASA's Ingenuity Mars Helicopter has completed 53 flights

Search for Ancient Martian Life: NASA’s Perseverance Rover Sees Mars in a New Light
https://scitechdaily.com/search-for-anc … _article=1

A cutting-edge instrument called SHERLOC, which hunts for molecules potentially related to ancient life, played a key role in a recent study.

In its first 400 days on Mars, NASA’s Perseverance rover may have found a diverse collection of organics – carbon-based molecules considered the building blocks of life – thanks to SHERLOC, an innovative instrument on the rover’s robotic arm. Scientists with the mission, which is searching for evidence that the planet supported microbial life billions of years ago, aren’t sure whether biological or geological sources formed the molecules, but they’re intrigued.

Future NASA missions, in partnership with the ESA, plan to send spacecraft to Mars to retrieve these sealed samples and return them to Earth for comprehensive analysis. The Mars 2020 Perseverance mission is part of NASA’s broader Moon to Mars exploration approach, which includes Artemis missions to the Moon to prepare for human exploration of Mars. JPL, managed for NASA by Caltech in Pasadena, California, built and oversees operations of the Perseverance rover.

it won't happen by 2025

Previous MSR concepts, 20 years ago

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/s … de_38.html

This painting shows a possible spacecraft mission for bringing Mars rocks back to Earth. The return spacecraft has just blasted off the martian surface for its return to Earth. Inside it are rock and soil samples collected by two rovers. While the rovers were collecting rocks, the spacecraft was using solar power to make its own rocket fuel from the martian atmosphere.

NASA and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory are planning a sample return mission to land on Mars in 2005 and return samples to Earth in 2008.

Overview

NASA's Sample Retrieval Lander would touch down on Mars and remain in place to receive a diverse collection of scientifically curated samples of Martian rock already collected and cached by NASA's Perseverance rover.
https://mars.nasa.gov/msr/spacecraft/sa … al-lander/
The lander would be the first ever to bring along a rocket — NASA's Mars Ascent Vehicle — and two helicopters, to help achieve the goal of bringing the samples safely to Earth for study.

NASA’s Mars Ascent Vehicle (MAV) testing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb2CLp2HIkc

Senate puts NASA on notice over Mars mission
https://www.yahoo.com/news/senate-puts- … 00280.html

The Senate is signaling deep skepticism about NASA’s ambitious plans to fetch samples of soil from the red planet, expressing concerns over the mission’s cost and viability.

Senate appropriators are offering just $300 million in funding for fiscal 2024 for the Mars mission — less than a third of the $949 million budget request from NASA.

Appropriators also say they have deep doubts about whether NASA can complete the mission, known as Mars Sample Return (MSR).

“The Committee has significant concerns about the technical challenges facing MSR and potential further impacts on confirmed missions, even before MSR has completed preliminary design review,” the Appropriations Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies subcommittee wrote in an appropriations bill outlining the funding for 2024.

It further said it would rescind the $300 million allocated for the mission if the agency cannot guarantee that overall cost will not exceed $5.3 billion. NASA estimates that the mission’s development costs, which were originally $4.4 billion, have soared to more than $9 billion.

The mission has become expensive but now more public opinion and more politics

'Most Americans Would Rather NASA Focus on Deflecting Asteroids Than Going to the Moon'

Senate expresses 'significant concerns' over NASA's Mars sample-retrieval plan
https://news.yahoo.com/senate-expresses … 28644.html

Senate appropriators are not only questioning the cost of the project but the viability of the project, as well.

The committee is giving NASA 180 days following the bill's enactment to provide a year-by-year budget breakdown for MSR that fits into the $5.3 billion lifecycle cost outline that was part of the agency's 2022 Planetary Science Decadal Survey.
https://www.space.com/mars-sample-retur … ncellation

MSR's mission objective is built right into its name – collect samples from the Martian surface and return them for study back on Earth. Throughout the history of spaceflight, only a handful of robotic lunar sample return missions have been successful. Attempting to collect and return material from Mars is an ambitious undertaking that has never been attempted.

The bill secures funding for NASA's ongoing Artemis program to the moon and other exploration initiatives, but cuts the space agency's budget for planetary science by over half a billion dollars.
In opening remarks, Senator Patty Murray stated the bill was, "written under some very difficult limitations," adding her stance that "those caps limit our ability to invest in our country's future."
First on the Committee's chopping block seems to be NASA's ambitious Mars Sample Return mission (MSR), a plan to retrieve Martian geological specimens collected by the Perseverance rover. The report raises concerns with the mission's continually delayed timeline and increasing costs. A recent Ars Technica report details ballooning internal cost projections for MSR at NASA, nearly doubling the mission's overall estimate to between $8 and $9 billion.
https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/06/t … ker-shock/

On a whole, the bill actually reduces NASA's funds by $384 million

finally some good news

Diverse organic-mineral associations in Jezero crater, Mars
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06143-z

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-08-05 09:06:55)

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

The U.S. Senate threatens to cancel Mars Sample Return
https://www.planetary.org/articles/the- … ple-return

NASA’s Mars Helicopter Just Won’t Quit, Resuming Flights After an Untimely Landing
https://gizmodo.com.au/2023/08/nasas-ma … y-landing/

the alternative plan cancelled, replaced by  a more complex mission

Mars Astrobiology Explorer-Cacher (MAX-C) to lead a Mars sample return?

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/studies/20 … ing-rover/

'A Comparison of Methods for the Mars Sample Return Mission'

https://web.archive.org/web/20211021234 … 1996_2.pdf
Robert Zubrin

We have examined the three primary options forMars Sample Return, and have found that of them, the direct return mission employing in-situ propellant offers the lowest cost, the lowest risk,
and the highest science return.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-08-16 16:38:16)

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

Mars helicopter Ingenuity completes 56th flight

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Mars … s_999.html

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

more Whirlwinds, captured also by previous Mars Exploration Rovers (MER)

NASA's Perseverance captures dust-filled Martian whirlwind

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA … d_999.html

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-10-02 06:22:57)

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

MarsHelicopter has completed Flight 64! The rotorcraft repositioned itself in a new airfield, flying 1,348 ft (410 m) north for 139 seconds.

https://twitter.com/NASAJPL/status/1719084682338570408

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

It is funny how long the rover has been on mars powered by nuclear materials.
https://www.universetoday.com/164407/na … -missions/

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

Perseverance or Percy, is a car-sized rover.

1,000 Days of Perseverance
https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/27854/1 … severance/
The path taken by NASA's Perseverance Mars rover during the first 1,000 sols (Martian days) of its mission at Jezero Crater is annotated on this overhead view taken by the HiRISE camera

NASA's Ingenuity helicopter has completed 69 successful flights on mars. NICE. Completing 125.5 flying minutes, covering 10.4 miles (16.7 km), and reaching altitudes as high as 78.7 ft (24.0 m)
https://mars.nasa.gov/technology/helico … Highlights

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

NASA Perseverance radar data spots potential for detecting alien life

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,796

Website

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

From AIAA’s “Daily Launch” for Monday 7-29-2024:

Life on Mars?
THE NEW YORK TIMES
NASA Did Not Say It Found Life on Mars. But It’s Very Excited About This Rock

Scientists working with NASA’s Perseverance rover state emphatically that they are not claiming to have discovered life on Mars. But many would regard a rock that the rover just finished studying as “Most Likely to Contain Fossilized Microbial Martians.” The rock possesses features that are reminiscent of what microbes might have left behind when this area was warm and wet several billion years ago, part of an ancient river delta. The scientists clarified that they did not spot anything that they thought might be actual fossilized organisms.

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By the way,  that description of the traces matches exactly what the scientists found in the Allan Hills 84001 meteor from Mars,  found decades ago in Antarctica.  They announced they'd found fossils,  and were repudiated for it at that time.  Looks like the robot rover may have found confirmation they were actually right! 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2024-07-29 08:58:50)

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

At this rate of cancellation and underfunding we are not going to be getting any samples back in the next decade.

GW Johnson

Member

From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,796

Website

Re: Perseverance New 2020 Mars Rover based on MSL

Cannot argue with that assessment,  SpaceNut. 

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"