Fire Ends Mock Mars Mission in Utah Desert

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-28 11:19:16

discussion of separate events to Mars Analogue the US Navy and criminal act of deliberately setting fire to property, the burning of Chapel of the Snows a non-denominational Christian and multi faith church located at the United States' McMurdo Station?

tahanson43206 wrote:

Do you have access to any data on why was burning

I did a search seems to be Sabotage, Vandalism, Arson?

'A shipyard employee started a fire that spread to crew living, command and control, and torpedo spaces. Repairs were initially estimated to require three years and $450 million, a figure that was later revised to a range of $450 million to $700 million.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Miami_(SSN-755)

'The debate over whether to repair or scrap the submarine lasted more than a year. Within a month of the fire, Maine Senators Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe advocated repairing her'

http://www.pressherald.com/news/navy-fi … 06-07.html

On 6 August 2013, Navy officials said that due to budget cuts the vessel would not be repaired.

http://www.kjonline.com/news/Navy-aband … r-sub.html
,
https://web.archive.org/web/20160109090 … sub-Miami/

if there is a lesson in all crazy mess that maybe it can go in one of those crime, mental health or 'difficult ones' threads. With thousands and thousands of people you eventually come across someone screwy with their screws loose.

The South Pole sounds like an accidental fire, Chapel of the Snows McMurdo Station.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/chapel-of-the-snows
'fire that started in the rear heater room'

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-28 11:42:17)

tahanson43206 · 2022-08-28 17:59:59

For Mars_B4_Moon .... Thank you for the research you carried out and for the links you provided to help us to understand how a fire got started in the submarine in dry dock.

I admit my question was not phrased well, and your work here helps to provide a context for a possible fire aboard a space vessel. Mental illness or similar problems inside a human skull might lead to intentional ignition of combustible items.

What I ** meant ** to ask was ... how was it possible that combustible materials were installed inside the submarine?

Submarines have been operating safely for many decades. Perhaps all that time, combustible materials may have been present, but good discipline and mental health have prevented accidental or intentional ignition of combustible materials.

There may have been incidents we don't know about.

In any case, what I'm trying to understand, in the context of ongoing planning for space vessels, is how it was possible for combustible materials to have been installed in that (or any) submarine?

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-08-29 20:02:11

It was only after that fire that the navy decided to temporarily install smoke detectors within the submarines while they are in a dry dock for repairs and upgrades as well as overhauls.

Depending on where the fire starts with what sort of fuel is available it can smolder or ignite to a full-on blaze.

Of course, there is modern computers onboard and that means paper is in use. Bunks do have a mattress and bedding that can burn rather quickly. After the blaze is going painted surfaces will burn, adhesives will torch up and the very wiring insulation will go up. Oils, hydraulic and other such lubricants will ignite at various temperatures.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 … -submarine

https://www.quora.com/What-happens-if-a … -submarine

tahanson43206 · 2022-08-29 20:53:37

For SpaceNut re #28

Thanks for the links to study !!!

It would seem that placing combustible materials on board a vessel is taking a calculated risk .....

The first (and probably most obvious) is the risk that a person inside the vessel would deliberately set a fire.

However, for a military vessel, there is the unavoidable risk that an opponent might succeed in causing a fire.

I would like to hear from anyone who might have an opinion on the trade-offs for space vessel design.

Fire avoidance must (?surely?) be high in the thought process for spacecraft designers of all nations.

In post #28, you included mention of smoke detectors being installed "temporarily" ... Out of curiosity, why wouldn't such devices be installed permanently?

Following that line of thought .... should smoke detectors be standard equipment aboard space vessels?

The original (NewMars) Large ship design features cabin sections that can be sealed off. Sealing off the location of a fire would seem (to me at least) to be a reasonable response to a fire alarm on a large passenger vessel.

Is there a standard practice along those lines on sea going vessels on Earth?

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2022-08-30 14:08:08

For SpaceNut re #28

Thanks again for those links!

The lesson that comes through loud and clear is to do absolutely everything possible to reduce chances of chemical combustion inside the rotating habitat.

I'm hoping other members will take up this issue so we have a chance of accumulating useful guidance for the young folks who are going to be building and flying in these vessels.

The design of RobertDyck has a distinct advantage over the design I'm working on.

The original Large Ship habitat concept was to have direct exposure to vacuum.

Thus, opening a compartment to vacuum (assuming any personnel are wearing EVA gear) is a reasonable fire fighting method to consider.

That option is not available on submarines, and it would not be available in my design, because the habitats would not be exposed to space.

The details of the design of kbd512 are not yet clear, so we'll have to wait to see if vacuum is an option.

The links you provided mention electrical fires and at least one hydraulic fluid fire.

Those could (presumably) be avoided on Large Ship designs by keeping voltage down and by limiting current flow, as well as by including lots of safety trips in the various circuits.

One thing I noted over and over again in the links is the importance of training. This would seem to be needed for passengers as well as crew.

It occurs to me to wonder if humans have experience with group travel with clear and present dangers so close at hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if NewMars members are able to post examples.

It sure comes across to me that system designers will be expected to think long and hard about the environment they are creating, and how passengers and crew can survive various emergency situations.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-08-30 18:55:29

In DC the higher the current the more heat that will be given off from a conductor. So you will want to use a low smoke wire insulation. The 688 class uses a pseudo house and electrical wiring system of the typical 110, 220 and 440 in AC panels. The Virginia class is high voltage DC of 700 Volts.
Good question why no permanent smoke of co2 atmospheric sensing, maybe google has an answer?

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-13 16:22:27

So I was thinking since AI and Robots will be part of a fire fighting team they will need to be far more advanced than any Tesla Car, it would be expected these machines operate at a higher level of calculation or artifical intelligence. For example an AI Robot Machine might respond to an electrical arc or lightning flash at a Mars colony or Martian power plant, A Robot seeing a Flash might automatically deploy a CO2 system or chemical fire suppressant, however it could also injure a rich Space Tourist who was silly enough to put a Camera in front of the Robots Face and do some Flash Photography.

SpaceNut · 2022-09-13 20:52:30

Ai would have lots of sensors and probably even a tele robotic control center as well to assess conditions for programmed deployment of firefighting tactics.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-15 09:09:29

Watching news perhaps On a future colony I imagine every Martian colonist will be trained as a Firefighter and in Fire suppression safety methods

Hawaii fire: Maps and before and after images reveal Maui devastation
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66465570.amp

Italy investigates train tunnel intrusion and bomb threat as the possible work of anarchists
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wi … -102138265

Singapore News

SCDF introduces new emergency medical training, fire research centres
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapo … es-3665856

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#26 2022-08-28 11:19:16

Re: Fire Ends Mock Mars Mission in Utah Desert

#27 2022-08-28 17:59:59

Re: Fire Ends Mock Mars Mission in Utah Desert

#28 2022-08-29 20:02:11

Re: Fire Ends Mock Mars Mission in Utah Desert

#29 2022-08-29 20:53:37

Re: Fire Ends Mock Mars Mission in Utah Desert

#30 2022-08-30 14:08:08

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#31 2022-08-30 18:55:29

Re: Fire Ends Mock Mars Mission in Utah Desert

#32 2022-09-13 16:22:27

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