Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

Kilit · 2003-01-25 07:34:26

Everytime i surf the web, serching on technology, space colonization topics, i feel as we're just too dispersed.
Should we unite under a consortium, but maintaining our own identity and objectives?
Some sort of techonogy tranfer consortium..
Any guess?

(cross post with www.secolcompany.com/forum)

MarsGuy2012 · 2003-01-26 06:17:55

We definitely need to unite!

I'm no war fanatic, but the old tactic of 'divide and conquer' definitely applies here. Our enemy is doubt. Doubt is everywhere I read about Mars exploration. Investors doubt that there will be profits. Politicians doubt that it will get them reelected. Even some Mars Society members doubt that their donations will actually get humans to Mars.

Now, I know that the many space exploration advocacy groups have widely differing goals. That is why they are not united. Putting them all together would only cause problems. But, the doubt still persists. This doubt may not destroy these organizations, but it greatly slows their progress.

What we need is to find a common goal. I think the one goal that all of these groups has is 'cheap access to space'. Once that cheap access is developed each organization could simply buy a ticket to Low Earth Orbit and pursue their varied goals from there. And, once they all work together and produce a system for cheap access to space, the afformentioned doubts will be greatly overcome.

Here's what I suggest. First, we all form a separate company to develope the cheapest way to get to LEO. (I assume this would employ 100% reusable vehicles, but we'll let the engineers decide that.) Second, each group invests a portion of its membership dues to this cause. This would have to be done year after year until our goal is met. Third, once the transportation system is designed, each contributing organization (or anyone else) can use it for whatever it wants to do.

Doing this would overcome two of the biggest obstactles:
Earth's Gravity - and the high cost of escaping it, and
Doubt - and the lack of investment and support that it creates.

el scorcho · 2005-03-19 00:55:47

Absolutely.

There definitely needs to be at least some sort of alliance, if not outright unification. I was thinking about it and came up with this model. I admit it may be far-fetched and it is very hopeful, but here goes:

Representatives from each space advocacy organization meet, decide upon a name (preferably something catchy and marketable), agree on a general framework of purpose (getting humans into space as quickly as possible), and write up a charter. Whatever organization emerges from this needs to operate half like a business and half like a political campaign. We should have a central website with a central store in which bumper stickers, t-shirts, hats--even mission patches bearing the logo can be sold.

Space exploration is a thing of child's fantasy. It is hopeful, it is fascinating, it is imaginative, it is futuristic, and it is human. Anyone who has visited Disney World will notice the futuristic, hopeful atmosphere and the celebration of past space exploration endeavors. Therefore, I propose this new organization try to team up with Disney. I know it's terribly optimistic to believe that such an organization could even exist, let alone flourish for long enough to team up with Disney, but hey...it's worth trying. The funds from such an endeavor would be enormous and countless doors would open.

In our current state, we are weak. But as a unified space organization, combining our talents and wallets, we could become a veritable juggernaut. By offering prizes for development of mission architecture or backing participants of other prizes, a private space agency could arise.

Flame away.

SpaceNut · 2015-11-29 18:02:09

Fixed artifact issues...

MarsGuy2012 is correct on the doubt issue as we are discussing just that in the Radiation topic, Food via greenhouses or aquatic grown, Water sources, oxygen regeneration, shelter support due to toxic mars regolith in places, Energy due to mass of source and finally the complete landing of mass to the surface along with the accuracy to get them close to each other.

We have also raised the doubt question with regards to any Nations Space program going let alone continuing once we can have the means or even through the corporate avenue of finacial backing for such outward progress to explore the final frontier as it would be for man.

We have doubt about the finacial as spects in gerneral and even the means to raise the funds.....

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-03-01 10:15:36

If we unite, then their is no competition, we can then get lazy and low, and do nothing.

robertmadsen · 2016-05-05 13:38:58

There is something to say for diversity. Having a single, unified organization sounds good, but then you have people with special interests who just want to have the information they want at their fingertips. So, if I am interested specifically in Mars, I join the Mars Society, etc. Also, trying to unite everyone under one umbrella is probably impossible because everyone has their own agenda and no one would be able to agree on the priorities.

However, there are ways to unite without actually uniting the different groups into a single organization. There should be some way to use the web as a way to tie into the various organizations.

SpaceNut · 2016-05-05 19:47:22

Welcome to Newmars robertmadsen, I hope that you can spend some time here and join in on the many discussions.

louis · 2016-05-05 19:54:02

I think we are well past this point. The reality is there is one guy - Elon Musk - who believes in the viability of Mars development and is determined to establish a colony there. More importantly he is generating hundreds of millions of dollars every year which he can divert into Mars colonisation (and of course his business interests - cheap space rockets and cheap batteries - are a perfect fit for Mars exploration).

The moment for space advocacy groups to take the lead is past. Had Z*brin been a more dynamic person, he might have led us forward 10-20 years ago. But the moment was lost.

I think we should simply unite behind Musk who I think will get there sooner than most people think.

MarsGuy2012 wrote:

We definitely need to unite!
I'm no war fanatic, but the old tactic of 'divide and conquer' definitely applies here. Our enemy is doubt. Doubt is everywhere I read about Mars exploration. Investors doubt that there will be profits. Politicians doubt that it will get them reelected. Even some Mars Society members doubt that their donations will actually get humans to Mars.
Now, I know that the many space exploration advocacy groups have widely differing goals. That is why they are not united. Putting them all together would only cause problems. But, the doubt still persists. This doubt may not destroy these organizations, but it greatly slows their progress.
What we need is to find a common goal. I think the one goal that all of these groups has is 'cheap access to space'. Once that cheap access is developed each organization could simply buy a ticket to Low Earth Orbit and pursue their varied goals from there. And, once they all work together and produce a system for cheap access to space, the afformentioned doubts will be greatly overcome.
Here's what I suggest. First, we all form a separate company to develope the cheapest way to get to LEO. (I assume this would employ 100% reusable vehicles, but we'll let the engineers decide that.) Second, each group invests a portion of its membership dues to this cause. This would have to be done year after year until our goal is met. Third, once the transportation system is designed, each contributing organization (or anyone else) can use it for whatever it wants to do.
Doing this would overcome two of the biggest obstactles:
Earth's Gravity - and the high cost of escaping it, and
Doubt - and the lack of investment and support that it creates.

Last edited by louis (2016-05-05 19:57:07)

SpaceNut · 2016-05-05 20:41:24

No business plan or funds to go with to mars means you are talking others into doing what you can not do youself....that is not the case with Space X.

louis · 2016-05-06 04:15:35

Having reflected on this, I think where there would be merit is having a Mars Design Group which could feed ideas to Space X about colonisation, ISRU and so on. That might have real value if it was well organised. I suppose that's a little bit like the original Mars Underground movement if people have read about that.

An MDG wouldn't try to come up with a complete plan, but rather would be a conduit for good, practical, innovative ideas.

SpaceNut · 2016-05-06 21:00:06

Well in a way this foruma nd many more like them are part of the design group just wanting others to read our posts and we know that they do from time to time as we have seen it in some of the news articles....
We do have some very good ideas on the how to get from here to Mars and what to bring as well as to do while on the journey but we also know that with no bucks we have no buck rogers.....

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-05 18:03:55

I am not fluent in this language at all but every time I go on the web I make more effort to do into its depths sometimes I will try jump past walls or even try get the feel of a debate in a foreign language 你会說 Zhongwen 嗎？ I will see French reading their history, some German blabbing out current politics, it is difficult to beat the exachange of ideas and debate in the English speaking world although it is going backwards.

Trump welcomed what Commercial Space Flight done and he welcomes what Space-X were doing. Politically he was always tweeting to his base on the web, he tried to centralize his Trumpist patriot movement or was it and its fringe elements a 'cult' but he tried to bring it all into the central rooms of BigTech. However in the end it was the central technocrat authority that banned the web voice of Trump...like him or not and I know he is trying to make a comeback with a blog but this technocrat thing could be a very bad thing for speech and exchange free ideas.
Sometimes I think competition is good, while I do not support their government but in a way I welcome ideas from other nations and think a contest is good if China gets a MSR it might wake up the US public and the Western world.

China Intends to Return Mars Samples to Earth Before NASA, ESA
https://www.pcmag.com/news/china-intend … e-nasa-esa

China Furious After NASA Accuses It of Stealing the Moon
https://futurism.com/the-byte/china-furious-nasa-moon

The US needed a more worthy opponent to race with, 20 years of nation building on mohammedan zealots with swords with rocks to stone each other to death over some blasphemy offense, nation building with guys and AK-47s who hijack each others camels? The religion of peace 2004 Constitution that puts a Moongod al-Lah and mahomet's Sharia Law as the highest authority in the land? Maybe the way they pulled out looked bad maybe it looked wrong in the 2021 Kabul news reports, however the whole thing a complete waste of time, blood and treasure.

Every time I surf the web I guess I find ideas which I like or love or find interesting, ones that are worthy to compete against and then I have also discovered ideas and belief that are wrong, some that perhaps even I hate.

We need to unite or disperse?

'Favorite Space Websites for News'
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9327

I should update this with some of my links to foreign overseas websites

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-05 18:05:32)

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2003-01-25 07:34:26

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

#2 2003-01-26 06:17:55

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

#3 2005-03-19 00:55:47

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

#4 2015-11-29 18:02:09

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

#5 2016-03-01 10:15:36

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

#6 2016-05-05 13:38:58

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

#7 2016-05-05 19:47:22

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

#8 2016-05-05 19:54:02

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

#9 2016-05-05 20:41:24

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

#10 2016-05-06 04:15:35

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

#11 2016-05-06 21:00:06

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

#12 2022-07-05 18:03:55

Re: Dispersion and Consortium - Should we unite?

Board footer