South of the Border Politics

SpaceNut · 2022-01-27 22:07:22

Cases Dismissed, Judges Replaced: Texas Struggles to Prosecute Migrants

The shake-up surprised the judges and outraged attorneys for the migrants, hundreds of whom remain jailed and awaiting prosecution. Immigration advocates accused Shahan of supplanting judges who did not rule as he wanted in a county eager to use local law enforcement to turn back what officials have called an “invasion of illegal aliens.”
The program, created last year by Gov. Greg Abbott and known as Operation Lone Star, authorized state and local police departments to partner with the owners of borderland ranches and use trespassing laws to arrest migrants who cross their land. Just two of the state’s 32 border counties — Kinney and its neighbor to the west, Val Verde — have adopted the approach.
More than 2,500 migrants have been arrested on trespassing charges, all of them men. (Under the Texas program, women and children found on private land are handed directly to immigration officials.) About 900 are still being held in state prisons.
The misdemeanor trespassing arrests, contentious from the start, have come under increased scrutiny in recent weeks.
attorneys argued that the arrest violated the U.S. Constitution because only the federal government has jurisdiction over immigration law.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-02-21 07:17:50

Joe's Border crossings are up four-fold
https://www.djournal.com/opinion/column … 8c77a.html
Biden admin refuses to deport criminal illegal immigrant after allegedly drawing swastikas on DC’s Union Station
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/02/10 … n-1199465/
Victims of immigrant crime advocate blasts DHS Secretary Mayorkas for opposing 'deporting ANYONE'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … NYONE.html

SpaceNut · 2022-03-02 21:40:34

This is not a surprise as we said that we need more than just as Trump border wall breached thousands of times by smugglers: report

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-18 12:48:06

Terror at our border: Agents caught 23 people on US terror watchlist crossing southern border in 2021, including suspects from Saudi Arabia and Yemen

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … -2021.html

A total of 23 people whose names appear on a U.S. terror watch list were stopped for illegally crossing the U.S.-Mexico border in 2021 The suspects were taken into custody between January 20, 2021 and December 30, 2021 Eight of the arrests were reported by the El Centro Sector and San Diego Sector in California The names of the individuals matched those that appear on the Terror Screening Database.

kbd512 · 2022-04-18 17:30:26

Mars_B4_Moon,

I believe this is what other Republicans and I have been talking about. We're fed up with Democrats admitting drug cartel members and terrorists into this country because Democrat politicians refuse to allow USBP and ICE to do their jobs and Republicans refuse to do anything to put an end to this nonsense. Let's bus all those criminals to Washington DC. We can dump them on the White House lawn or take them to Congress. They'll fit right in up there.

SpaceNut · 2022-04-18 18:34:55

So you do not want the border patrol to do there job which is to screen them as they capture them....

That is why they got found...

kbd512 · 2022-04-18 19:24:19

SpaceNut,

Your favorite political party will start receiving the message in 2022, and by 2024 the message will be delivered (again).

SpaceNut · 2022-04-18 20:42:42

So how many are going to make it to the court date let alone have an address of residency to receive any mail now that they are not in an area for getting assistance.

When the migrants arrived from Texas they were carrying Manila envelops that read '4 Washington, DC'

So the more than 1.6 million have crossed into the country over the Texas border within the last 15 months is not any different in numbers than any previous presidencies even back to the 60's.

They swim across the Rio grande, float across the ocean and scale walls to get here; so what is the answer to stopping the reasons for why they come?

https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/in … -by-state/

So if we know that they have had there day in court to grant or deny asylum; then why is there still a problem?

kbd512 · 2022-04-18 21:46:24

SpaceNut,

It'll take some time, but we can bus 1.6 million people to New Hampshire so we can all have a good laugh at your attempts to "process their asylum claims". Since most of them never show up for their court date, that will be the least of your concerns.

SpaceNut · 2022-04-19 17:59:15

I think the plane is excellent for its own topic as a means to be able to find the posts. It appears to be of the lifting body design with the stubby wings.

Kbd512 I think what you are getting at is why should Texas and a few others be the only states to have these people. So what quota system is there to spread them around the nation?

current spread pattern population

I also think unless vet'd a bit more than an intake that placing them in DC was a possible means to target our seat of power for the country and that terrorists might try to get there..

of course the sanctuary cities are where the groups are concentrated

So we need to spread the people out ward to get them to assimilate our culture rather than holding fast to what brought them here....

Calliban · 2022-04-20 01:54:31

One thing that is noticeable about these political discussion threads is that people pour a lot of time and effort into what appears to be a vacuum. Rarely does anyone change their minds on anything, even when their position is shown to be ridiculous. So time and effort is effectively burned without purpose.

I can certainly understand why some parties would want to do away with political threads. If people genuinely enjoy these discourses and learn something from them, then perhaps they are worth keeping. If on the other hand, they are just siren calls, eating up attention and man-hours for no purpose, they begin to look like a liability. My thoughts here have nothing to do with wanting to silence one side or the other or oppress any point of view in particular. I just wonder if any of these debates really achieve anything with any lasting importance. Are they an effective use of time? Any thoughts?

Last edited by Calliban (2022-04-20 02:00:33)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-05-28 17:10:08

Border observers: Illegal immigration surge helped fuel U.S. drug overdose spike

https://www.guampdn.com/news/national/b … a5793.html

kbd512 · 2022-05-29 16:23:56

Calliban,

When one political party thinks that only their ideas have merit and they receive no responses from people who are too busy trying to make ends meet to voice their opposition to bad ideas... Well, that's why there needs to be pushback from the other side on bad ideas that have already been tried and found wanting. I am not the least bit opposed to trying new ideas that could possibly work, no matter who / where they come from. I am opposed to "blow harder" ideas. Both major political parties have "blow harder" ideas. We already know that they don't work, but the people voicing these ideas clearly don't, and need to receive pushback to let them know that there's a world beyond what their three pound universe has constructed for them.

SpaceNut · 2022-05-29 16:29:38

How many tunnels will a wall remove which were used to bring those drugs into the US?

Yes a wall will remove some routes taken but not the roads with trucks, water ways where the oceans are used and by air as well...we need to close the door to all routes not just the one.

kbd512 · 2022-05-29 16:38:05

SpaceNut,

Why did President Biden put a wall around the White House and Congress if walls don't work?

After all, people who were determined to get in could simply dig a tunnel.

How much easier is it to walk across the land than it is to dig a mile-long tunnel?

You think that because it's not utterly impossible to go around a wall, that it doesn't slow people down.

The millions of people who simply walked across our border could not have done the same thing using a tunnel, with the same amount of ease.

You'll talk yourself in circles before admitting that walking across a totally undefended patch of dirt is much easier than digging and using a tunnel system.

Why did the Vietnamese not start using tunnel systems in Viet Nam until we started bombing the daylights out of the Ho Chi Minh Trail?

You already know the answer to that question, and so do I.

SpaceNut · 2022-05-29 17:15:53

They also used them around the supreme court but then again none of those places are a border to green....

vector-map-of-the-border-districts-in-the-united-states-and-mexico-vector-id1223339258

We need all of it as only one is so insufficient to doing anything useful. The U.S.-Mexico border is 1,954 miles long with by 2017 approximately 650 miles of border fence already existed: 350 miles of primary pedestrian fencing, 300 miles of vehicle fencing, 36 miles of secondary fencing behind the primary fencing, and 14 miles of tertiary pedestrian fencing behind the secondary fence.

The Rio Grande River runs along 1,254 miles of the border between Mexico and the United States and does not flow in a straight line—instead twisting, turning, and flooding regularly. As a result, the current border fencing in Texas is located miles away from the border on private land owner’s property. In addition, the mountain range at Otay Mesa in California makes it extremely impractical to construct a wall or fencing.

YFDFJSGB3II6ZNO7D65GDJTMOU.jpg&w=540

Sure President Trump built more formidable barriers in the San Diego area than anywhere else along the southern border, with miles of double-layer steel fencing, but that has not stopped more and more migrants from trying to scale it. The reality is that a Section of Trump Border Wall in South Texas Cost $27 Million a Mile. It's Being Foiled by $5 Ladders.

this is the existing smaller version
wall.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&ssl=1

less than 2 minutes to be up and over running for cover and disappearing.

So 88ft sec is 60 mph so you need detection and guards every at no more than a football fields length with fast vehicles ready to go get them.

Remember that we have People climb mount Everest for fun....

Otay%20Mesa%20secondary_2.jpg
even these are no match.

Mexican smuggling gangs have sawed through new segments of border wall 3,272 times over the past three years

sure the onslaught of those headed at the new wall has dropped but not for the other areas as they seek other places to go through.

kbd512 · 2022-05-29 18:00:23

SpaceNut,

Help our government design a better wall if you think the ones we're building are not effective. I would propose an electrified wall, and one that's arched over to the Mexican side of the border to make it that much more difficult to scale.

SpaceNut · 2022-05-29 19:06:47

Like you indicated the top needs to slant so as to make it harder to go vertically on a hard surfaced metal wall.

Prisons use a double wall system of barbs

I am sure that even this would be defeated...

kbd512 · 2022-05-29 20:32:56

SpaceNut,

Given how many prisoners remain in prison, versus those who manage to escape, I can confidently say that the number who manage to defeat that kind of wall will be exceptionally low, especially if there are armed guards at the border.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-06-10 12:21:43

How will it be fixed, tens of thousands of Central Americans and some flying in origins from other nations, how to stop tens of thousand from entering the US. But why is it Mexico’s duty to protect America’s borders and what if Mexico is corrupt with Drug Cartels and Human Smugglers?

Biden administration takes legal action against Border Patrol 'whipping' coin seller
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poli … oin-seller

He once compared Border Patrol to Slavery Drivers???

The incident made international headlines last September as President Joe Biden and senior administration officials accused the Border Patrol of "whipping" the illegal immigrant in an attempt to block him from entering the United States from Mexico.
"The images depicted on this coin are offensive, insensitive, and run counter to the core values of CBP. This is not an official CBP coin," said Luis Miranda, assistant commissioner for CBP's Office of Public Affairs, in an email to the Washington Examiner Friday morning.

CBP initiated an investigation into the Haitian migrant incident days afterward. The Department of Homeland Security's Office of Inspector General declined to investigate, indicating that it had not found any criminal actions were taken by the agents, kicking it back down to CBP investigators. Nearly nine months later, CBP has yet to release the results of its in-house investigation, and the employees involved remain on desk duty.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-06-11 05:21:19)

SpaceNut · 2022-06-10 19:20:53

Meixoc is corrupt with Drug Cartels and Human Smugglers

Well that's one reason for them not to stay in Mexico but there are others.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-06-11 07:49:06

SpaceNut having an open border can cause problems
or is it a good thing as some would claim, virtues of illegal aliens illegally crossing borders?

Does a person crossing a border automatically have the ability to become Americanized and how long would that process take across a sample of hundreds of different cases of peoples. California already has tent cities, crimes, drugs, homeless, Shootings and Lootings how will adding thousands upon thousands of illegal invaders solve the already many issues faced by Southern Border States, when they give these people an ability to influence an election are they not rigging the system and stuffing the ballot box? America has been described as a land of immigration but it was a Land of the Native also and those who don't learn from history ...well...

1 Just normal immigration and normal refugees can cause issues, it can quickly become a burden on services, hospitals, the US tax payer.
Overwhelm a system it can cost your wealth, supply chains are hit, less for everyone, your medicine man runs out of medical supply.

2 There are security issues, flagged members of isis, marxist rebel groups, al-qaeda, human traffickers and drug runners have been caught at the border.
Last year 50 + Al-Qaeda suspect were caught heading to the United States Border, a terror team of 19 muslim men caused the 911 Attacks, 16 died in San Bernardino attacks 24 these were two people, Oklahoma City bombing they say was carried out by one man alone 168 dead,13 dead and 33 injured in the Fort Hood shooting, radical Puerto Ricans kill four with a bomb and injure more than 50, LaGuardia Airport bombing remains unsolved suspects have rainged from Palestine political types to South American Marxists, the Orlando Gay Nightclub shooting terror attack killed 50 and injured 53, they say this was only one guy....some of these attackers came from outside America, some planned from within families arriving as refugees.

3 Too many immigrants, too many brought in and they can change a culture, change its language, establish a Parallel Society bringing with the the same culture, same crimes, same money laundering and bribery and gangs and corruptions that come with life in El Salvador, Colombia, Jamaica, Venezuela, Guatemala...when you take someone from one country and move them to another, their culture does not automatically vanish and get instantly replaced by the new host nation culture, only look at the crap called jihad culture, islam across the Middle East, Europe and the Indian Sub Continent, hundreds of years ago Europeans defeated the Turkish Ottomans, yet left behind were Tatars and Albanians and other cultures, Europe has spent generation upon generation, hundreds of years of trying to get islamics to fit in, the Balkans today is kept together by way of a UN peacekeeping force, perhaps the islamic will Never fit in. The foreign people require foreign services, their ritual torture foods like halal, they want phone translators, some want foreign lawyers a bigger cost again on a US Tax Payer, a Culture about to become more Balkanized. Do you think bringing in more people will help the old Native American languages and songs that are in danger of extinction? You could bring enough immigrants to Michigan where they begin to stone Christians and Jews on the streets, they find female world-music singing is totally unacceptable or cartoons or the smell of bacon can send them into sudden jihad mode?
There is only song long people will tolerate another people who attack and bomb others because of a meme posted on twitter or tumblr.com
How long before there is a push back
Would the relatives of victims of Pop Concert Bombings and Charlie Hebo always support this parallel culture?

4 Unforeseen consequences, foreign seeds, dangerous pathogens, aliens plants, Covid-19 etc
Foreign bugs or plant life taken in can change and destroy a Native Eco-System
There is the drug issue alone, 100,000 + Americans dead of drugs like heroin, meth, fentanyl.

5 Taking the best and brightest from Foreign countries will not make these foreign countries better, perhaps they should stay and home and fight to change things and make their mother lands or father land better
the numbers are displayed by Roy Beck gumball theory immigration speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-06-11 08:51:37)

tahanson43206 · 2022-06-11 08:21:54

For Mars_B4_Moon...

As you scan the Internet and other sources, please keep an eye open for the possible answer to all those questions in post #522.

You've done a pretty good job (in this post and many others) of cataloging the many challenges we humans face as we try to muddle through from one year to the next on this increasingly crowded planet.

I understand that Singapore may be a successful culture, in the swirling mix of failing ones.

I've read a little bit about the country/state, and met a small group of students from there.

It seems to me that at one time, the US had a procedure in place to assimilate large groups of newcomers, and there were plenty of problems to overcome.

The US is disorganized. It may ** never ** be organized.

It seems to me that the challenge of bringing new people into a group is compounded on Mars, where the challenges of daily living are far worse.

With the range of your interests, you may discover one or two successful examples that deserve to be recognized.

(th)

kbd512 · 2022-06-11 15:15:41

tahanson43206,

Democrats don't have any answers. I've never met a Democrat who was capable of having a logic-based debate about why they believe what they believe on foundational issues like human rights, immigration, adherence to the law, the right to defend yourself from violent criminal assault, etc. Their emotional basis for their beliefs prevents such debates from taking place. When the person you're arguing with can't explain why they believe what they believe, because it was a belief implanted in their brains by someone else, based upon an emotional appeal, then at that point you realize it's like debating happiness or anger or sadness. Emotions have at least as many different meanings or interpretations to different people, as there are people.

Even after you provide a plethora of illustrative examples of how their belief system is failing them, they continue to run through the same logic loop that they're stuck in, because they have defective programming that they're unable to correct or override. At least half the population is highly susceptible to having someone manipulate their emotions to override all basic logic.

Let's examine some of your beliefs, as stated in Post #523:

S: "I understand that Singapore may be a successful culture, in the swirling mix of failing ones."
Q: As defined by what? Provide your definition of what you think a successful culture happens to be. Successful how, and to what degree?

S: "It seems to me that at one time, the US had a procedure in place to assimilate large groups of newcomers, and there were plenty of problems to overcome."
Q: The US does have a procedure to assimilate our newly minted citizens. It's called the legal immigration system. The Democrats and more than a few Republicans have thumbed their noses at that system because they don't like some aspect of it. What do you think the remedy for that is? Should you ignore any law you disagree with, or perhaps change laws you disagree with, or maybe also follow the existing laws if there's no broad agreement about what the immigration laws should be changed to?

S: "The US is disorganized. It may ** never ** be organized."
Q: Disorganized how? In what ways? To what degree? Sweeping statements without context are almost meaningless. You're the only person who knows what you really meant by that. That's why my posts tend to be longer than some other participants. Without context and explanation, broad sweeping statements are nearly meaningless. It's like saying, "humans don't really know what they're doing". Oh, really? How, in what ways, and to what degree?

America became the dominant military power on the planet because of "happenstance" or "dumb luck", right? Britain previously had the most powerful military on the planet, and an empire spanning the globe to supply it, but simple "bad luck" or some baseless assertion that "they didn't know what they were doing" suddenly changed that? Not. Very. Likely.

Alternatively, better ideas about how to run world trade and international relations were so clearly advantageous to a plurality of nations that they all decided that, maybe just maybe, these Americans are onto something. After we laid waste to the German and Japanese empires, we spent whatever amount of money that it took to rebuild their countries. After the Soviet Union collapsed, a nation that actively looked for ways to annihilate America with nuclear weapons, we sent as much food by transport ships as they could carry without sinking. The communist Chinese were literally starving to death because their agriculture was so "stuck in time", so we sent over John Deere farming equipment because Americans thought to themselves, "Allowing a billion people to starve to death over an ideology is just monumentally stupid, so who cares about our ideology or their ideology? Send the farming equipment first, so they don't starve, and then we'll sort out the details later when there's time."

Maybe it wasn't the greatest fluke in all of human history that America, arguably one of the most free and prosperous nations on the planet came into existence, and certainly not that it has remained so for over 250 years, no matter any malarkey from authoritarians to the contrary. It wasn't a gigantic "cosmic accident". There never was and never will be any "perfection" achieved by dint of our existence, but I think it probably took vastly more organization and follow-through for that to happen, than any other country in the world was ever capable of mustering. If that statement wasn't true, then some other nation would've sent the first people to the moon, some other nation would've built the majority of the machines that defeated some of the greatest evil the world has ever seen, and some other nation would've invented and produced all the trappings of the modern world that the majority of its inhabitants enjoy today.

As Churchill once noted, after we try everything that doesn't work, America can be counted upon to come to its senses and "do the right thing and for the right reason". He never made such an assertion about his own nation, even though he loved his people and believed deeply in their cause. When our system of governance is followed as The Founders intended, our way of doing things basically works and the people get the result they need for both America and its system of governance to continue. Whenever our system of governance is not followed, that's when disaster frequently strikes. The Founders were wise beyond their years and personal experiences. Somehow, they knew full well how everything could go horribly wrong, so the system of governance they gave us reflected their deep understanding of people, events, and technology. Most importantly, they understood how to curb the excesses of government and how to best restrain small groups of people from enacting a tyranny over the majority.

Basically, it is possible to "get it right" more often than you "get it wrong", but that only derives from adherence to the principles of good governance, rather than some "object of affection" of the moment. If there is no fidelity to the over-arching principles that make nations prosperous and free, then you're unlikely to achieve prosperity and freedom by accident. There is clearly also quite a bit of "margin calling" that must occur, because the world has never been "black-and-white", rather an infinite number of shades of gray. We also cannot predict the outcome of every unique situation, nor do we need to try. We need to know what our principles are, we need to know when what we're doing is adhering or not adhering to those principles, and we need to adjust or correct, no different than conning any other ship. Our Constitution is our guide star, and it always points to True North. The principles it encompasses are timeless, every bit as applicable today as when they were written. There was never a point in our history when our Constitution has failed us, even if some of us failed to follow it.

S: "It seems to me that the challenge of bringing new people into a group is compounded on Mars, where the challenges of daily living are far worse."
Q: Are the people you're bringing to a Mars colony like the radical leftists who have overrun the Democrats, who all want to "run their own program" without regard to reason / behavioral norms / what's good for society as a whole, or are they more like Republicans, who tend to go along to get along but push back on what they view as destructive, who tend to not think changing every aspect of society to suit the latest en-vogue cultural or ideological practices equates to good governance practice, and who tend to follow orders when they make some minimal kind of sense, even if it's not what they really want to do with their time? There's a night-and-day difference between people who view life as a mission that must be completed versus people who view life as performative art. Some traditions are useful, even when the person superficially observing the practice doesn't appreciate all the reasons behind the tradition.

Lots of people get ideas stuck in their head and then think that they can force everyone else to adopt their idea because they personally fancy the idea. There are other people who think that's an absurdity and that for ideas to be widely adopted, good rationale must exist backing the idea. Since emotions are very rarely good rationale, we tend to ignore ideas that have no sound logic backing them.

To wit, these are the foundational (to a civilized society) problems that we all face:
1. Refusal to uphold freedom of speech, even if it's speech you vehemently disagree with (if we're not free to express our thoughts and opinions in public without fear of violent results, then we can't have any other freedoms- people who are too immature and fragile to live in a free and open society are the only ones advocating for this nonsense)

2. Disarming people who didn't break any laws on the false promise that they will be protected from future criminal assaults, based upon an equally false assertion that criminals will commit fewer crimes (violent criminals need to fear their potential victims, because it's been proven that they do not fear the Police, our laws, or any form of punishment)

3. Refusal to enforce the laws whenever the belief systems of the Police, DA, Judge, or Jury members disagrees with the law (disarming the law abiding absolutely will not ever reduce the number or severity of crimes unless this issue has been taken care of first)

4. Refusal to value human life whenever it's inconvenient (babies are the natural result of having sex, so don't have sex with people you never intend to have children with and don't kill anyone who isn't actively trying to kill you- this is the absolute most important application of "The Golden Rule", which is essentially "do unto others as you'd have others do unto you")

5. Refusal to adhere to any social or cultural norms, constantly advocating for changing what's permissible and what's not (some people don't like the immigration laws, so rather than changing them through Congress, which is how it was intended to be done, they think it's okay to ignore them)

For example, I don't think a man declaring himself to be a woman, or vice versa, will ever "make it so". Those who engage in such activities can come up with the most elaborate games of "make believe" imaginable, but that doesn't mean everyone else is buying into it. Similarly, you can throw letters together to "make up" words, such as calling people "Latinx", but that game of pretend never had any meaning to someone like me. It was something our radical left simply "made-up", for sake of confusing themselves I guess, since their word games never had any connection to reality for people like me. Choosing to "identify yourself" as a "Latinx" or "attack helicopter" or "furry" has zero impact on my life. How you arbitrarily think yourself should be immaterial to how others think of you. I only see nonsense like this as a completely contrived personal issue related to the fact that you don't have enough of your time filled with more worthwhile activities, or that you think your fantasies have some greater bearing on the objective world that we all inhabit. When all your worldly needs are easily met by a society contorted into a playpen for adults, then and only then you can find the time to fixate on your fantasy life, to the exclusion of all other considerations. I don't truly care about stuff like this one way or the other, I simply view it as being entirely unhelpful to human civilization writ large. We can indulge our desire for personal fantasies or performative art AFTER all of our worldly needs have been met, never before.

We also have the "antifa" and "black lives matter" evil clowns burning down the neighborhoods and businesses owned by minorities. That level insanity does affect my life, but I can't stop crazy people from acting out their insanity, so our only actual solution is to meet them with force when necessary and lock them up so that they're less of a danger to themselves and others. Democrat / radical leftist DAs and Judges refuse to do that much, so the rest of us are left with a real quandary. One thing I've noted about these crazy people is that they all tend to be very authoritarian in nature, and lash out at others when they don't get their way. Again, I'm left with a real issue to grapple with after my government fails to do its job, simultaneously wants to disarm those who do abide by our laws, and we have an entire cheerleading group (Democrat-run media, Democrat-run academia, and their "vote blue no matter who" host of "true believers") dedicated to what looks to me, to be an anti-humanist cause.

These problems with American society are readily solvable, but they require the will to solve them and the willingness to ignore all the insanity coming from people who are mentally disabled by their emotions (the reactionaries of the far left and far right), which seem to be controlled like puppets by the evil cretins dripping poison into their under-developed minds. Teaching people to hate themselves, to hate their fellow citizens, that biology is contrived rather than a force of nature, and that they need to incessantly fight against some other group of their fellow citizens while those in positions of power rob them blind and leave them destitute for sake of greed and/or ideology... All of that is pure evil to someone who thinks the way I do.

Do we want to solve our problems the way Singapore does?

Do we really want to cane people who accidentally or carelessly toss a chewing gum wrapper on the sidewalks?

Do we want to sentence gay men to two years of prison and hard labor for the "crime" of loving each other?

The same law that imprisons gay men says lesbians are okay. What kind of sense does that make? There's no sense at all to that, at least in my book.

What was it that George Carlin said about "the teachings of god" in his standup routine, as it related to different numbers of rights for different people in different places at different times?

IIRC, it was that "the law" looked a lot more like human thinking than the thinking of "a god", or that alternatively, "god" was every bit as capricious as humanity if such was truly the case. That realization then begged the question of why we would choose to follow the capricious edicts advocated for by one set of teachings over another, versus viewing humans as having unlimited rights so long as those rights don't infringe upon the rights of others.

Humans are wildly inconsistent, such that what one group thinks is perfectly permissible the next thinks is completely forbidden. People with that kind of inconsistency are NOT the people I want making decisions on my behalf. I have enough problems without trying to navigate ever-more capricious and inconsistent behavior on the part of overly-emotional or otherwise mentally defective people in positions of power, especially when they're hellbent on manipulating the way I live in service to some ideology they can't or won't define.

Do we want to imprison a man who "insults the modesty of a woman" by pulling her out of the path of an oncoming bus? No joke, one of our Navy guys pulled a woman out of the path of a city bus after she stepped into the street without looking, but because he grabbed her arms and yanked her back, and this was confirmed both by him and the woman to the Police, so off to prison he went... for years. He thought he was saving her life, and that's exactly what he did according to both parties, but the law didn't see it that way. Our command made it a point to tell us never to touch a strange woman for any reason, not even to save her life. That still boggles my mind, but that's Singaporean law, and yes, I assure you that they're quite serious.

Is that truly the kind of "organized society" we want to live in, here in America?

Don't ever touch another person for fear of "insulting their modesty", from the perspective of the law, even if you're literally yanking them out of the path of an oncoming train or bus?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think so.

Yet again, thorough explanations take a lot more thought and effort than broad sweeping generalizations that do not describe valuation or applicability. I expect most young people to have problems understanding what is meant, but most or all of the people who post here are mature adults. They should recognize that these are real problems we face in our society. If they can't articulate how what they're voting for is improving rather than deteriorating our situation, then maybe they don't have very good ideas, no matter how enamored they are with their ideas.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-06-11 15:51:51

Kbd512
I believe Switzerland might be one also of those examples of a multi-cultural place that does work, however Switzerland is unique. They accept immigrants but in limited numbers and do not have open borders, their geography is unique high up in the Alps it is difficult to conquer and few have tried to invade. I believe in the late 1700s or early 1800s Napoleon did successfully invade but something strange might have happened like they paid him to go away and they actually gained more land after the invasion. They are an intelligent people and operate sensible economics, they have very high level of gun ownership but also high level of gun responsibility, no insane drug addicts or city criminal gangs with illegal guns. They believe in their own unique values such as federalism and a shared mountain culture. I believe during the ColdWar every Swiss person had a bunker, I had met Swiss people I have been told about this bunker thing I have seen it in online video however is it true every Swiss person has a bunker? I have never been to the homes in the Switzerland nation so I have not been able to touch and smell their Nuke proof bunkers and not been able confirm in person everyone had a bunker but I believe the story is true. They are some of the most wealth middle class upper middle class in the world, eighth-highest per capita gross domestic product, they are inside space and science projects and groups like CERN and ESA, their imports and exports are well balanced with high medical supplies, vehicle and helicopter parts exported, refined metal composites, software service, watches, foods, banking, electric motors, women's fashionable beauty products, they are in the heart of Europe but have their own economic policy and not governed by the EU. In trade and economics they always rank as one of the most competitive countries globally. I do not believe they have freedom of speech, perhaps the United Sates is the only nation where it has an Amendment, the First to its Constitution that allows its people to speak freely.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-06-11 15:52:05)

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