New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Shaun Barrett · 2003-09-05 19:48:49

Hi BGD!
The pyramid and the eye are on American one dollar bills, I think.

Dickbill is enjoying himself with a little bit of humour about secret cults and 'behind-the-scenes' groups who are reputed to control our lives.
Incidentally, Dickbill, when you say 'adorators' I think you might be looking for the word 'worshippers' (?). Just a thought.

dickbill · 2003-09-05 21:05:20

Incidentally, Dickbill, when you say 'adorators' I think you might be looking for the word 'worshippers' (?). Just a thought.

yes, adorator = worshipper. I thought adorator was correct, sorry.
But the all story is diffferent. I actually was recently in the street in front of a US governmental building with that symbol: the eye of top of a pyramid, plus a compas. This for me, with my european background, was clearly a sign of the Freemasonery "organisation", which for the average european people represents a sect with obscure traditions, a little bit like the Solar Temple and other old Grand Oeuvre of the Alchemistry.
Indeed, I searched internet with "eye in the pyramid" and find lots of reference about conspiracy and freemasonery in the US etc.
just go to :
http://www.guigue.org/guitex52.htm

So, for some reason, a freemason symbol overlaps with many other US symbol, such as, as you said, the dollar.
Don't ask me what are exactly the Freemasons and what they do. They are so secretful that nobody knows exactly and beside, if you ask a freemason if he is a freemason, he always denies.

I am pretty sure these guys still try to convert lead in gold, well, me, I find my trip in the ideas that man can walk on Mars. But I am sure that my dream will become true long before those guys find their "philosophical stone".

For Cindy: B. Franklin "might" have been a Freemason by the way.

Palomar · 2003-09-06 05:37:07

For Cindy: B. Franklin "might" have been a Freemason by the way.

*No "might have been" about it, dickbill: He was a Freemason. In fact, Franklin was in France when Voltaire was initiated into the Parisian Freemason lodge; it was faithfully recorded that Franklin essentially -carried- Voltaire through the room the ceremony was held in. Voltaire was 83 years old, very frail and always had been sickly all of his life; he needed assistance walking through the ceremony.

Wolfgang Mozart was also a Freemason, as was Frederick the Great of Prussia. Quite a few other illustrious persons (on both sides of the Atlantic) were as well...names slip my mind right now (I'm still trying to wake up). I'm quite certain Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were Freemasons too.

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2003-09-07 02:13:43

Yes, I think many other U.S. presidents were supposed to be, either overtly or covertly, Freemasons, too.
The Freemasons have their origins a long way back in time, apparently. As I understand it, they see themselves as heirs to the esoteric knowledge of the priests and pyramid builders of ancient Egypt, a body of arcane wisdom which is jealously guarded and handed down from generation to generation. I think the idea is that, while many people become members of the Masons, only a very select few ever learn the full story or are allowed to see the complete picture.
If you can believe anything you read, The U.S.A. is and always has been a Masonic enterprise. Hence, so we're led to believe, the references everywhere to the symbols of Freemasonry, such as the Twin Towers in New York, and architectural anomalies like the Egyptian obelisk in Washington D.C.

This also fits in very nicely, in conspiracy theory circles, with the notion put forward by organisations like The Enterprise Mission that NASA follows ritualistic Masonic guidelines in everything it does; launching missions or landing probes when certain constellations, like Orion, are so many degrees (often 33 degrees) above or below the horizon, for example.

Who knows, maybe it's all true!!

But I've read so many superficially self-consistent belief systems and conspiracy theories that, if you were to believe in all of them, you would quickly descend into a kind of paranoid madness! You would believe in witches, fairies, multiple species of aliens (and abductions to go with them! ) and various cloak-and-dagger cults and organisations intent on world domination and our ultimate enslavement.

But I'm not taking any chances. Hence the metal helmet!!

dickbill · 2003-09-07 06:42:28

I think the idea is that, while many people become members of the Masons, only a very select few ever learn the full story or are allowed to see the complete picture.

I think so. Nobody's a freemason in this list ?

Shaun Barrett · 2003-09-07 06:58:04

I'm certainly not. I wouldn't want to join any society that would have me as a member!

Palomar · 2003-09-09 06:09:05

Too beautiful for words

*When I was a kid, I wrung my parents' arms and made them buy me color posters from Sky & Telescope magazine. One was the Andromeda Galaxy, the other the Trifid Nebula, and I believe the Orion Nebula was the 3rd. I had my father arrange them on the ceiling beneath my bed with thumbtacks, so I could look up at them of course -- as if they were the sky itself. And on a rainy/snowy afternoon, lay there and daydream about space travel, etc.

I would have loved to have included this photo with those. Wow, spectacular.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-09-09 13:53:16

Wow, only 5000 light years away. Granted, that's still quite a ways, but one can only imagine humanity reaching that far out in her attempts to colonize the galaxy.

Mark Friedenbach · 2003-09-09 14:19:20

Nobody's a freemason in this list?

I'm not (I wouldn't qualify for membership), but I've met some people that are. Freemasonry is a loose organization, and many lodges don't have any real connection with other lodges, so the idea of a global conspiracy is pretty far-fetched.

As an aside, the eye-in-the-pyramid symbol on the american dollar is a symbol of the Bavarian Illuminati, not freemasonry (although some lodges adopted it later). It is also an ancient symbol for divinity. There's a good (accurate) history of the B.I. here.

Palomar · 2003-09-10 14:12:27

Black Hole Strikes Deepest Musical Note Ever Heard

*Wow, this is so fascinating! I was just thinking the other day of the "music of the spheres," i.e. the noises, whistles, beeps, etc., the planets emit. I heard a recording of them when I was a kid, but where exactly and who compiled the recording I can't remember.

It never occurred to me that a black hole could have a musical note to it ("eons long"!). I imagine it would be extremely eerie, if you could actually hear it. They give me goosebumps, but I have to admit I'm very intrigued with black holes.

Mother Nature never ceases to amaze...

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-09-11 12:51:11

The Music of Black Holes

*Hmmmmm. Am I the only person here who finds all this -- our musical cosmos -- fascinating?!

The only issue I have with this article is that it insults black holes in the very first paragraph. :;):

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-09-11 12:55:33

Earth's Hum, Sounds of Mars, Space Symphony

*Another very interesting article about our musical universe.

You know, I'm leaning towards Deism these days. Could all of this "just happened"? I'm beginning to doubt it.

--->Don't miss the post above this one! <---

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2003-09-11 18:22:23

About the Deism thing: I really can't imagine all these amazing phenomena being meaningless.
The universe is just too incredible, at least to my mind, to be the result of entirely random, mindless chance.
I have no evidence, no proof, but my own personal opinion is that there has to be some purpose to it Even if there isn't, I don't want to live out my life thinking that!!

[I know, I know ... even if there were no God, man would have to invent Him!

Spider-Man · 2003-09-11 22:21:23

Mm, music of the spheres indeed...

Well, since we've brought it up, maybe a little Platono-Aristotelian interpretation could help...

The Ontology of God is a branch of philosophy, touched on by Descartes, among others. It deals with defining what God is, what it means.

Taking my own spin off their foundations, I believe I have successfully proven the existence of God, at least in a Deistic sense.
The key is to define exactly what God is (in a hypothetical sense). And so, what is God? God is (representative of) everything good, everything that is wonderful, all that is beautiful. God is beauty, delight, love... God is all virtue, from the spiritual human virtues of modesty, passion, justice, courage, faith, altruism, and love, everything that is noble ang good.
God is the mechanics, as Aristotle put it, the energy which drives the universe and gives meaning to every thing, to each grain of sand, to every atom, to all the world. God is unseen to the universe itself, the metaphysics which is already proven true.

Do we believe in goodness? in beauty? in virtue and delight? If we do, then, according to our definition, we do believe in God, since (the concept of) God embodies all these things, without need for referencing any mythos or story, without doctrine ? only with pure logic and reason.

Personally, I believe that making God in Heaven into a sort of person, a character, a simplistic being with human-like thoughts just completely demeans, insults, and degrades all sense of divinity altogether. God is so much more...
I also thinking giving God a (male) gender is enfeebling. God should be above that (and even if God has a being like that of a human, exactly how is gender applicable to it?).

Just some suppositions...

Palomar · 2003-09-12 06:57:44

Black Hole Strikes Deepest Musical Note Ever Heard
*Wow, this is so fascinating! I was just thinking the other day of the "music of the spheres," i.e. the noises, whistles, beeps, etc., the planets emit. I heard a recording of them when I was a kid, but where exactly and who compiled the recording I can't remember.
It never occurred to me that a black hole could have a musical note to it ("eons long"!). I imagine it would be extremely eerie, if you could actually hear it. They give me goosebumps, but I have to admit I'm very intrigued with black holes.
Mother Nature never ceases to amaze...
--Cindy

An Image of the Perseus Cluster w/the "Musical" Black Hole

*Ooooo, I love synchronicity!

Shaun, thanks for your input on the Deism issue.

Spider-Man: The head reels. I'm just to the point -- just -- of thinking there is a Supreme Entity out there who set this all in motion. The more I study the writings of illustrious and highly intelligent -and- accomplished people like Voltaire, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, etc. -- people who can't be dismissed as goofy religious whackos -- the more I'm inclined to agree that "the work demonstrates a workman."

As to gender: Who knows? What (little) spiritual inclinations I have are most at home in Taoism (Yin & Yang).

Beyond that: Headache!!

--Cindy

Spider-Man · 2003-09-12 07:38:23

Ooh, the Tao! ...how incredibly cool. I read the Tao Te Ching about a year ago. What's really amazing is that the Tao and Western philosophy (Socrates in particular) are virtually identical. All the greats came to the same conclusions, it seems.

As for the "workman" hypothesis, which is truly very interesting, consider this: Where exactly does the workman come from? What created him? Is he merely the result of the universe's existence in the first place?

Palomar · 2003-09-12 08:06:31

Ooh, the Tao! ...how incredibly cool. I read the Tao Te Ching about a year ago. What's really amazing is that the Tao and Western philosophy (Socrates in particular) are virtually identical. All the greats came to the same conclusions, it seems.
As for the "workman" hypothesis, which is truly very interesting, consider this: Where exactly does the workman come from? What created him? Is he merely the result of the universe's existence in the first place?

*Ah, my dear young man, I have this to share (posted this morning to my "Age of Voltaire" group):

I'm currently engaged in a bit of discussion regarding Deism at a different forum. The following anecdote by Voltaire was recalled by me. I read this in _The Portable Voltaire Reader_ [Penguin publishing], and thought I'd share it here first:

Voltaire wrote this in his first letter to Prince Frederick (later to become Frederick the Great, as we know) in 1736. It illustrates more of Voltaire's Deistic concepts, and his thoughts regarding metaphysics. Also, as the book's editor, Mr. Ben Ray Redman points out, "The most profound mysteries and the highest truths were both, he was convinced, beyond reason's reach.":

"I look upon metaphysical ideas as things which do honor to the human mind. They are flashes in the midst of a dark night; and that, I think, is all we can hope of metaphysics. It seems improbable that the first principles of things will ever be thoroughly known. The mice living in a few little holes of an immense building do not know if the building is eternal, who is the architect, or why the architect built it. They try to preserve their lives, to people their holes, and to escape the destructive animals which pursue them. We are the mice; and the divine architect who built this universe has not yet, so far as I know, told His secret to any of us."

**

I've read:

The Tao of Pooh
The Te of Piglet
The Tao of Gung-Fu (Bruce Lee)
The Way of Chuang Tzu

...and I occasionally purchase Taoist magazines. I used to do Tai-Chi; should probably start that again.

--Cindy

Gennaro · 2003-09-12 17:51:36

As for the "workman" hypothesis, which is truly very interesting, consider this: Where exactly does the workman come from? What created him? Is he merely the result of the universe's existence in the first place?

By coincidence the ancient Aryans actually believed something similar. The cosmos in their worldview was the body of a primordial man or mythically sacrificied being called the Purusa, of which humankind, the heavens and even the gods were just limbs/aspects.
The flows of the cosmos were in turn held together by magical manipulation through the fire sacrifice of the Vedic priests.
Speculation on this worldview is also the origin of the verse which Sagan made famous. In extenso:

Who verily knows; who shall here proclaim it - whence they were produced, whence this creation? The gods [arose] on this side [later] , by the creation of this [empiric world to which the gods belong]; then who knows whence it came into being? This creation, whence it came into being, whether it was established, or whether not - he who is its overseer in the highest heaven, he verily knows, or perchance he knows not.

Rigveda X.129.6-7

Neither is it irrational to posit a being existing in higher perfection from which the workman emanated, I suppose, especially considering that his work is sometimes less than perfect. But then maybe an even higher order ought to exist and then another and another...
A favourite subject for Gnostics by the way, who in their fervor to account for all the heirarchical aeons which make up the spiritual attributes of this in which we exist, soon filled up the gap between utter fallen matter and Pleroma's utter perfection with more deities than there are floors in Felicula's insula (a Roman skyscraper). According to Tertullian, their god supposedly lived under the roofing tile.
:laugh:

Palomar · 2003-09-13 06:09:52

Neptune's Stowaway

*"Neptune, it seems, likes harboring stowaways. Astronomers already knew that its largest satellite, Triton, didn't form along with the planet's other moons. It now appears that another body, Nereid, also jumped onboard..."

Adding to the collection. Beautiful deep-blue Neptune with its Great Blue Spot adorned with white methane clouds is my favorite Gas Giant. I'd like to go swimming there.

--Cindy

Spider-Man · 2003-09-13 08:35:47

That's pretty neat; I guess they're just large Kuiper objects.

As for the big blue spot... I don't mean to disappoint you, dear Cindy, but it was discovered that the great blue spot wasn't a storm, but most likely an impact by a comet or asteroid or the like (as what happened with Shoemaker-Levy 9). In fact, you can see from this movie Hubble made of Neptune's weather and rotation that, while the white, actual storms that were pictured by Voyager 2 remain much as they were thirty years ago, the blue spot has been completely reabsorbed by the torrent winds.

http://www.solarviews.com/raw/nep/nept96.mpg

Besides, Neptune was a mean god; he'd be all cruel and wouldn't let you swim there, and break your ship and kill your Achaean crew and all that big meanie stuff.

Palomar · 2003-09-16 10:49:07

Mars & Moon

*Very similar to the series of photos from which Josh took his avatar (I wonder if thanks to the same astrophotographer?). Very nice photo. I wanted to pursue astrophotography when I was younger...but I doubt I have the patience for it.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-09-16 10:51:59

Psychadelic Saturn

*Break out the love beads and lava lamps!

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-09-16 10:55:18

Uranian Moon "Demoted"

*I was going to post an article which discusses a "recovered, long-lost" moon of Uranus, but apparently the issue is undecided.

I've posted two articles above this one; don't miss them.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-09-16 12:04:43

Spider-Man: "As for the big blue spot... I don't mean to disappoint you, dear Cindy, but it was discovered that the great blue spot wasn't a storm, but most likely an impact by a comet or asteroid or the like (as what happened with Shoemaker-Levy 9)."

*Wow. I guess the material I've been reading is outdated; somehow I missed that.

Spider-Man: "In fact, you can see from this movie Hubble made of Neptune's weather and rotation that, while the white, actual storms that were pictured by Voyager 2 remain much as they were thirty years ago, the blue spot has been completely reabsorbed by the torrent winds."

*Aw. And the blue spot was so pretty. Thanks for the links.

Spider-Man: "Besides, Neptune was a mean god; he'd be all cruel and wouldn't let you swim there, and break your ship and kill your Achaean crew and all that big meanie stuff."

*Oh yeah? Well then, I'd whip out a hammer and smack him on the head with it.

--Cindy

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#26 2003-09-05 19:48:49

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#27 2003-09-05 21:05:20

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#28 2003-09-06 05:37:07

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#29 2003-09-07 02:13:43

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#30 2003-09-07 06:42:28

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#31 2003-09-07 06:58:04

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#32 2003-09-09 06:09:05

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#33 2003-09-09 13:53:16

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#34 2003-09-09 14:19:20

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#35 2003-09-10 14:12:27

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#36 2003-09-11 12:51:11

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#37 2003-09-11 12:55:33

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#38 2003-09-11 18:22:23

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#39 2003-09-11 22:21:23

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#40 2003-09-12 06:57:44

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#41 2003-09-12 07:38:23

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#42 2003-09-12 08:06:31

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#43 2003-09-12 17:51:36

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#44 2003-09-13 06:09:52

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#45 2003-09-13 08:35:47

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#46 2003-09-16 10:49:07

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#47 2003-09-16 10:51:59

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#48 2003-09-16 10:55:18

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

#49 2003-09-16 12:04:43

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Board footer

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Re: New Discoveries 2 - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED