Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

Calliban · 2022-02-20 22:53:21

The US actually imports about 9 million barrels of oil each day and produces around 11.5 million barrels per day in crude oil, condensates and natural gas liquids.
https://peakoilbarrel.com/us-recovery-b … roduction/

About 9 million barrels equivalent of products, like middle distillates (kerosene, diesel), petroleum spirit (gasoline) and LPG are reexported. Why does the US need to import oil? Because its refineries were not designed to process the extremely light tight oil (I.e shale oil) that now dominates domestic supply. It must be blended with heavier oils to produce an input with the right density, viscosity and specific heat for the refinery to process. The US could not produce all of the products it needs entirely from domestic sources. So, net energy independence is a bit of fib.

Both supply and demand collapsed during the pandemic. Global supply is now extremely tight, with no more than a few million barrels per day spare capacity. This may disappear altogether by the end of this year. The all time global peak in oil production, appears to have been November 2018. It will be extremely difficult and expensive to reach those levels of production again. In the US, every shale basin except the Permian is past peak. Gulf of Mexico and Alaska are long past peak. OPEC has very little spare capacity; Asia has peaked; Europe peaked at the turn of the century. Russia is probably pumping at full capacity and it will be difficult to grow capacity much further.

The problem is that there is very little onshore conventional oil remaining on Earth that is not already in production or has been depleted. Every year, it declines due to depletion. It must be replaced using a mixture of tar sands, tight oil, Canadian syncrude and deep offshore oil. All of these are more expensive to produce than the conventional oil they replace. Conventional oil, mostly offshore now, is getting more and more expensive to discover per incremental barrel, in addition to the greater costs of bringing it into production. The profitability of the oil business is declining, because exploration and production costs are rising rapidly, but the price refiners can afford to pay for each barrel has not kept pace. This dichotomy is squeezing the life out of oil and gas companies. This is why very few producers expect to be able to increase production, even with oil approaching $100/ barrel. As oil price rises, the cost of inputs increases as well. So profitability does no rise in lockstep with oil price.

Ps. This article may be interesting.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News … -2022.html

Last edited by Calliban (2022-02-21 02:53:36)

SpaceNut · 2022-02-21 10:06:34

That only says that the production was slowed as they were running out of storage for the level which was being steady state in these tanks. They did not continue as they know supply and demand drives pricing and not having plenty already processed.

SpaceNut · 2022-03-04 20:55:33

yesterday the price at the gas pump was $3.60 a gallon and was going to fill up this morning but the price had jumped to $3.85 then to my continued surprise this evening the price at the pump has inched over the 4 dollar mark to $4.09.

tahanson43206 · 2022-03-04 21:24:11

For SpaceNut .... it was painful reading Post #403 ... By the time you report again the price is likely to be over $5.00 a gallon.

A while back (recenly) you confirmed that your early model Prius does not have a feature for charging the onboard battery from at home utility power, but there might be aftermarket equipment to allow you to recharge at home.

The market for such equipment may not have been large enough to justify a company making the investment.

Oh oh! The price per gallon (may have) jumped to $6 per gallon while I was typing.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-03-04 21:44:08

The issue with the Prius is that there is no ability to keep it in EV mode as you accelerate. The engine can come on at a multitude of conditions from load on a not fully charged battery to sensing you have the heat on. A gradual slow roll does allow for it to stay in EV mode but only until you get close to 20 mph and then the engine will come on.

Sure the price of gas will go back down but when. Its getting warmer soon an soon I will be able to stay out to work on projects like making a pedal powered ev that will be based on being able to get to work in a reasonable time. The pedaling will be tied into power generation rather than all the time biking. I am looking to provide solar power as well to recharge in the parking lot once at work so that it can get me home.

If I set the pedal generation to make more power than what I am using I should be able to make a net zero machine for commuting that will be capable of the 30 to 40 mph target values. Electric motor throttle kits are capable of that speed with 1500 w motor systems that make use of 56 v to 72 battery packs.

Amazon product kits sold for 1500 w fat tire ebike

I am looking to build a reverse trike for better stability.

not quite the layout
RearView_66a6f2fb-d292-411d-961c-fe2199e139db_1024x1024.jpg?v=1612543596

SpaceNut · 2022-03-05 08:43:34

Puff ngcb9 over night the price at the pump this morning is $4.29 at this rate the economy will slow....

kbd512 · 2022-03-05 10:08:09

SpaceNut,

If you need to minimize your energy usage, then walk or ride a regular bicycle. If you need something that goes 40mph, then there are plenty of electric motorcycles that will do that. If money is no object and you're very physically fit, then teams have made pedal-powered machines go a lot faster than 40mph.

kbd512 · 2022-03-05 11:47:10

Kronfeld Motors - Raht Racer

Electric motorcycle / recumbent bike capable of 90mph, fully enclosed with a roll cage. It appears to have very good visibility, except for rearward visibility, and that's atypical for such machines. It's projected to "only" cost $35,000USD to $40,000USD, so you can buy a Tesla Model 3 for the same money. However, it does get significantly better "fuel economy" because it only weighs 540 pounds. No surprise there. Simple physics always applies with full force to all machines made by humans. Raht Racer is effectively "Aptera Lite". If Raht Racer was $10K or less, then it would be a very attractive as a means to drive to work and get my exercise at the same time. It'll never pass a NHTSA crash test, but no motorcycle will, either. That is entirely fixable if money is no object, as all CFRP chassis Formula 1 cars will easily pass NHTSA crash tests.

Those of us who need a real car are not interested in a $40K 3-wheel Harley. We could easily cut down on fuel consumption by using smaller engines that provide more torque at low RPM. They may not accelerate like sports cars, but they could use a minor fraction of the fuel consumed today, and represent a more pragmatic approach to reducing energy consumption that our "green ideologists" eschew in favor of "ideological purity" that has not resulted in a practical alternative to vehicles that consume more energy to produce and operate them.

Basically, Chrysler's plastic body car was on the right track. Exceptionally simple fabrication, recyclable plastic chassis that did not require any paint, fewer corrosion issues, very light weight for a true 4-wheel / 4-passenger vehicle, very little power required to accelerate to highway speeds, and practical in a way that none of these battery-powered toys ever will be within our lifetimes.

Terraformer · 2022-03-05 12:15:54

The British government is still deciding whether or not to legalise electric kick scooters. It's quite odd that they aren't (without onerous licensing and insurance and such), given that electric assisted bicycles are treated no differently to pedal bicycles as long as they are speed limited to 25 kmph (15.5 mph). If/when they are legalised it will be on the same basis, as the transport committee in parliament has said should happen because they're a cheap and sustainable means of transport. So hopefully they will stop messing around and finally do it.

SpaceNut · 2022-03-05 15:49:27

For those that think walking, riding a pedal bicycle is for exercise try again when you are poor and need to get more than just a few miles in an hours time span.

The ability to commute to work should also not require something with 4 zero's after a digit.

The ability to get to work 35 miles plus away makes travel quite problematic since commuter buses do not take you towards where you would want to be even if its does stay cheap as they have the route that they take and its up to you to get that last mile to a dozen in some how quickly.

The highway system limits the low end speed (45 mph towing a trailer) that travels can do and still use the roads; so at 35 mph you are stuck to in town roads with congestion and no bike lanes for safety from that in attentive driver.

The Toyota MR2 comes to mind but even today most vehicles have some where near 200 plastic parts to save in weight to increase mileage. Carbon Fibers and Carbon Fiber-Reinforced Plastic (CFRP) Carbon fiber-reinforced plastic (CFRP) is a real high-tech material.
I remember the old style Fiero but that was Pontiac.

https://www.sglcarbon.com/en/carbon-fibers-and-cfrp/

SpaceNut · 2022-03-06 10:19:25

Price at the pimp seems to have stabilized at $4.29 a gallon regular.

Getting cheap oil Biden team in Venezuela as U.S. seeks to split country from Russia

kbd512 · 2022-03-06 18:14:56

SpaceNut,

$10,000 is not that much to spend on a quality car, but every electronic or electrical gadget you add increases the manufacturing cost dramatically, because a complete supply chain for all components must be created. The supply chain for steel goes all the way back to the Iron mine, and includes all the machine tools required to transform Iron into sheet steel. It just so happens that sheet steel is the cheapest structural material that's durable enough to get the job done. Aluminum is another complete supply chain, and requires different machine tools to cast / forge / machine it into the desired shape. Ditto for plastics, batteries, and electronics.

Fiber-filled plastics have greater strength-to-weight when compared to sheet steel, at lower total cost, when the vehicle's energy consumption in operation is taken into account. If the goal is to manufacture lightweight / low-cost / easy-to-maintain cars, then fiber-filled plastic molding provides the requisite strength and impact absorbing characteristics for a lot less money than GFRP or CFRP. That is why the corners of sheet steel chassis have honeycomb shaped fiber-filled plastics to help absorb impacts from high-energy crashes. A plastic of the variety used is also readily recyclable like steel or Aluminum. Since the plastic won't corrode the way steel and Aluminum do, the chassis can last for at least a human lifetime without significant maintenance (complete disassembly, paint stripping, and repainting). The plastic requires appropriate UV protection, but that's about it.

There's also an entire world of difference between a 55mph car and a 75mph car. Making a car go 55mph is easy to do, making a car go 75mph with comparative safety is not an easy thing to do. I know it doesn't seem like a big difference, but trust me, it is. The suspension, chassis stiffness, precision of the steering alignment, engine power, etc, all make 75mph a much more difficult goal to attain, insofar as cost is concerned. Obviously it's entirely doable, but not as cheaply. Fuel consumption, accident severity, and crash protection requirements were greatly reduced by 55mph top speeds.

Terraformer · 2022-03-07 03:57:31

So, a car built for the highway is way overbuilt for use on local roads? If you're not exceeding 40MPH, your requirements are far lower, suggesting that local runabouts (diesel-electric hybrid?) would be far cheaper than regular cars. Maybe enough to warrant owning both?

kbd512 · 2022-03-07 11:44:42

Terraformer,

Vehicles should be built for specific use cases in mind. Compromise is not a dirty word. Consumers should learn to accept that certain compromises will provide most of what they want for far less cost. Basically, anything built for 75mph will be considerably more expensive than anything built for 55mph or less. Buy the capabilities that you use most often, unless money is no object.

tahanson43206 · 2022-03-07 12:26:02

kbd512 reminds us often of the benefits of a simple, maintainable, durable automobile.

If we lived in a socialist system, that is what we would get.

The disadvantage of the capitalist system is that venture capitalists risk their funds on products that customers may or may not want.

The fact that no one in America seems to want a car as described by kbd512 simply tells me that the used equipment market is filling in the gap for those who cannot afford the latest and greatest new vehicle.

On the ** other ** hand, my understanding is that simple, durable vehicles are popular in India and other regions where income is restricted.

If anyone with an active membership in the forum has time to investigate the global supply of simple, durable inexpensive cars, I'd be interested to see what you find.

(th)

kbd512 · 2022-03-07 14:30:09

tahanson43206,

Income is now being restricted here in America, via inflation, in case you hadn't noticed. If you can't figure out where this will ultimately lead, it's the exact opposite of a future where space colonization becomes feasible. The mere fact that everyone was swiftly impoverished to the point that personal transportation beyond your own two feet was an unattainable dream under the Soviet Union or China was never a "net benefit" to people living there, it simply meant that everyone became equally poor and destitute over time, and far less productive than their fellow humans living under more capitalist and less authoritarian systems.

Governments demanded the use of electronics and anti-lock brakes and crash testing, not consumers. That was not capitalism in action, it was government regulators in action. It's a boringly common practice for people to conflate government interference with a market in a capitalist system with capitalism, same as it is for communists to conflate fascism with capitalism. Fascism and communism are both self-serving alliances between governments and corporations or wealthy and capricious individuals (oligarchs) against the will of the people, while masquerading as the will of the people using simpleton indoctrination propaganda, as taught in our university systems to unsuspecting young people falsely lead to believe that they will become educated rather than indoctrinated by such programs. Education is thinking for yourself and eventually teaching yourself. Indoctrination is being told what to think. Only the educated know the difference.

There's a system of governance where every aspect of life is dictated by some unelected authoritarian, and that system is better known as a "prison". Oddly enough, less than 1% of society wants to live in a prison. We know this because less than 1% of any given society can be found in a prison, except under fascist and socialist systems where the government can and frequently does imprison anyone who has the gall to do their own thinking. Stupid people can frequently be indoctrinated to believe that they're better off being someone's prisoner, but only for a little while, until the end result of that ideology becomes so excruciatingly painfully that even death would be preferable.

Anyway... In a socialist system, you would either be walking everywhere or taking public transportation, assuming you were allowed to travel anywhere, even to go to work. If public transportation is provided, then that may be workable. I'm not advocating for living the way the communists do, and none of them ever advocate for living the way they do, either. Funny that. I'm asking a different kind of question not related to communism or capitalism.

louis · 2022-03-07 15:31:26

I hope that the experience of Covid and Ukraine will cause a Great Renewal in the former democracies and that we will rediscover the importance of free speech and free assembly. I hope people will now abandon Medical Tyranny as a form of government (despite the egregious examples from all around the world, but notably both Canada and Australia, countries we formerly thought of as beacons of liberty).

The experience of Ukraine where we can see what real danger looks like has put Covid in perspective.

Both Covid and Ukraine teach that the defence of liberty involves risks, but it is better to take reasonable risks than live in fear and let a disease or a dictator take over your life.

kbd512 wrote:

tahanson43206,
Income is now being restricted here in America, via inflation, in case you hadn't noticed. If you can't figure out where this will ultimately lead, it's the exact opposite of a future where space colonization becomes feasible. The mere fact that everyone was swiftly impoverished to the point that personal transportation beyond your own two feet was an unattainable dream under the Soviet Union or China was never a "net benefit" to people living there, it simply meant that everyone became equally poor and destitute over time, and far less productive than their fellow humans living under more capitalist and less authoritarian systems.
Governments demanded the use of electronics and anti-lock brakes and crash testing, not consumers. That was not capitalism in action, it was government regulators in action. It's a boringly common practice for people to conflate government interference with a market in a capitalist system with capitalism, same as it is for communists to conflate fascism with capitalism. Fascism and communism are both self-serving alliances between governments and corporations or wealthy and capricious individuals (oligarchs) against the will of the people, while masquerading as the will of the people using simpleton indoctrination propaganda, as taught in our university systems to unsuspecting young people falsely lead to believe that they will become educated rather than indoctrinated by such programs. Education is thinking for yourself and eventually teaching yourself. Indoctrination is being told what to think. Only the educated know the difference.
There's a system of governance where every aspect of life is dictated by some unelected authoritarian, and that system is better known as a "prison". Oddly enough, less than 1% of society wants to live in a prison. We know this because less than 1% of any given society can be found in a prison, except under fascist and socialist systems where the government can and frequently does imprison anyone who has the gall to do their own thinking. Stupid people can frequently be indoctrinated to believe that they're better off being someone's prisoner, but only for a little while, until the end result of that ideology becomes so excruciatingly painfully that even death would be preferable.
Anyway... In a socialist system, you would either be walking everywhere or taking public transportation, assuming you were allowed to travel anywhere, even to go to work. If public transportation is provided, then that may be workable. I'm not advocating for living the way the communists do, and none of them ever advocate for living the way they do, either. Funny that. I'm asking a different kind of question not related to communism or capitalism.

Last edited by louis (2022-03-07 15:33:53)

Calliban · 2022-03-08 09:56:14

I agree with the sentiment Louis. But the sociopaths running western countries aren't likely to change course and become peaceable and freedom loving, just because Russia defied their collective authority by invading Ukraine. If anything, this will make them more dictatorial and paranoid of anyone with a different point of view. The only chance Western countries have of becoming democratic, is to change the power structure by removing the oligarchy that controls Western media and dominates political party financing. Those sorts of changes only occur due to violent revolutions or civil wars.

SpaceNut · 2022-03-09 19:18:59

Tonight's gas price watch is now up to the $4.35 a gallon in the area.
I did put $30 in the tank on Monday and its still enough to make all the travel for work for the week still.

Calliban · 2022-03-09 21:09:36

A recession like no other.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/reces … -any-other

If central banks raise rates to combat inflation, this could easily spiral into a depression. If they don't, the value of many currencies is in serious trouble. With real inflation exceeding 10%, wages are in a death spiral.

clark · 2022-03-11 01:34:53

"Governments demanded the use of electronics and anti-lock brakes and crash testing, not consumers. That was not capitalism in action, it was government regulators in action. "

unfettered capitalism, stymied by government intervention. the horror.

Like when government said maybe lead paint in schools was bad? Like when government said maybe smoking in enclosed spaces was bad? Like when government said you should wear a seat belt? Like when the government said kids should get a certain set of vaccinations? Like when the government said your particular idea should be protected as a patent for x number of years?

We don't have capitalism in America. We have a regulated marketplace. Some of it good, some of it bad. The government plays a role in regulating it. The government plays a role in dictating the rules, or minimum value to entry. Consumers play a role in what they are willing to put up with or accept.

Jesus, American's supposedly live in a capitalist society but our internet, media or electricity is all a monopoly. Most of us are too stupid too see the irony.

SpaceNut · 2022-03-15 21:04:57

The gas prices at the pump has been declining and rests today at $4.11 a gallon after reaching $4.35 some time after post 411's post.

kbd512 · 2022-03-15 22:28:00

clark,

I don't care if our government hands out "gold stars" or other participation trophies for electronics, anti-lock brakes, seat belts, or crash testing, but it shouldn't have the power to make them mandatory to sell a car. Government can suggest that we don't use Lead paint, wear seat belts, not smoke, not drink, not abuse drugs, etc. When they start mandating contrivances, that's when the problem arises. I want to remove all the warning labels, all the ridiculous artificial controls over every aspect of society intended to shield the overgrown children masquerading as adults from their poor decision making, and then let nature take over.

The real physical world always has been and always will be dangerous to all mortal beings who don't live inside a rubber room with a totally benevolent overseer. Whether you never leave your rubber room or swing from a trapeze until you have a heart attack at age 100, the end result is that you die. On one end of the spectrum, you're sheltered from every imaginable threat, while on the other end you have to learn from your mistakes and become resilient, or you're not long for this world. In the not-so-distant past, those who wanted to survive had to have some base level of awareness that the world can be a dangerous place, and that they shouldn't do things that increased their chances of getting killed, or accept the consequences if they did.

No one is suggesting that you can't live and die inside a rubber room if that's what you truly want, merely that many of us aren't inclined to join you there.

Calliban · 2022-03-16 05:59:14

Global diesel stocks are declining, with the Ukraine war resulting in withdrawal of Russian supplies on top of an already very tight supply situation.
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gene … rtage.html

This is very bad news, because diesel is the fuel for global goods transportation. A falling supply of diesel points to economic contraction, because the economy IS the production and exchange of goods. It is an essential fuel for mining and agriculture. With less of it available, there is little option besides doing less of all of those things.

For transportation of people, there is a degree of flexibility. People can walk. They can drive electric or gasoline powered cars, use bikes, scooters, electric scooters, velomobiles, trams and trains (where available), buses, etc. Or they can work from home, dependant on what they do. Some of these changes can be made quickly, others require long time frames. But for goods transportation, it is more difficult. There is no easy replacement for the range and capacity of a diesel HGV. And it is difficult to see any easy replacement for diesel as fuel for container ships. We could in principle power ships using LNG, LPG or even chipped biomass. But this would require massive refit and would reduce cargo space. It couldn't be done quickly and it would inevitably cost more.

In the longer term, I believe that America's railways will be recognised as one of its greatest strategic assets. If there is a solution to the problem of fuel shortages for transportation, this would appear to be it. The exceedingly low friction of steel wheels on steel rails, makes this the most fuel efficient way of moving heavy goods over long distances between hubs. Rail is by its nature only capable of moving freight between nodes. But if railways can be extended to the point where no one in the US is more than 100km from a rail freight yard, then electric or natural gas powered trucks are up to the task of shifting freight over those much shorter distances. Instead of wasting resources on Tesla cars that few people will ever afford, the world should be gearing up for a railway revolution. This could work for both people and freight, but it is most essential for freight.

Terraformer · 2022-03-16 06:16:16

If we can cut car use enough in Britain, we should be able to save the diesel we need for essential vehicles (tractors, trucks, buses etc).

Regarding goods transportation, we could use coasters. Even Birmingham is no further than fifty miles from the Severn estuary, and suitably built vessels could carry containers as far as Worcester. The key thing is being able to transfer cargo quickly and easily -- putting the containers on wheels so they can be rolled on and off should be able to solve that problem. Leeds already has a canal that can be (and is) used. And of course London has the Thames. It's really the transshipment that is holding it back I think?

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#401 2022-02-20 22:53:21

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#402 2022-02-21 10:06:34

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#403 2022-03-04 20:55:33

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#404 2022-03-04 21:24:11

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#405 2022-03-04 21:44:08

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#406 2022-03-05 08:43:34

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#407 2022-03-05 10:08:09

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#408 2022-03-05 11:47:10

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#409 2022-03-05 12:15:54

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#410 2022-03-05 15:49:27

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#411 2022-03-06 10:19:25

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#412 2022-03-06 18:14:56

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#413 2022-03-07 03:57:31

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#414 2022-03-07 11:44:42

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#415 2022-03-07 12:26:02

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#416 2022-03-07 14:30:09

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#417 2022-03-07 15:31:26

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#418 2022-03-08 09:56:14

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#419 2022-03-09 19:18:59

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#420 2022-03-09 21:09:36

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#421 2022-03-11 01:34:53

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#422 2022-03-15 21:04:57

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#423 2022-03-15 22:28:00

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#424 2022-03-16 05:59:14

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

#425 2022-03-16 06:16:16

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

Board footer