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#1001 2021-12-23 10:45:23

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,291
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

tahanson43206 wrote:

For RobertDyck re SpaceNut's suggestion of a washing machine service ...

You are not bound by NASA practice.  A facility for cleaning clothing is a minimal expectation on a large ship of any kind, unless it is a ferry boat used for crossing a river or similar short run.
...
Hopefully by the time your ship is flying, you will have run across a solution that allows your passengers to sustain a minimal sense of "civilization"

I have allocated space on the Large Ship for laundry machines. Since the ship uses artificial gravity we can use laundry machines similar to Earth. Front loading laundry machines use less water. And laundry machines designed for use in an RV function both as washer and dryer; the one drum does both functions. I expect an RV style front-loading machine, but made as rugged as a commercial laundry machine for hotel use. I also expect to use laundry soap instead of detergent, because soap can be made from vegetable oil and lye (either sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide). Those hydroxides can be extracted from human urine, and one company in the UK is already making oil from single cell organisms, the oil is technically microbial but works exactly the same as vegetable oil. So laundry soap can be made on the ship. Furthermore, soap can be used as nutrient for hydroponics, so it's compatible with the water recycling system.

One point I was trying to make is NASA's estimate of 500 pounds of clothing is not necessary when you have laundry. I would like to see clothing be closer to the estimate by kbd512, but his estimate is for a sailor in the American Navy. Perhaps a little more than military issue, but much less than NASA's estimate.

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#1002 2021-12-23 11:33:29

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,004

Re: Large scale colonization ship

The clothes washer was something RobertDyck and I talked about for how to do one for zero G use and it would work just fine even on the surface of mars. Of course its a combo unit...
Will see if I can find the topic.

Found it

Laundry

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#1003 2021-12-23 17:42:14

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,858
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

Rob & Kbd512:

I sent you some rocket equation propulsion stuff -- check your emails.  I also sent you the spreadsheet with which I did it,  so you can go and play,  yourselves.  It's just ballpark,  one should never infer predicted performance from something so crude.  But it can readily identify relative trends.  Just something with which to select a couple of likely propulsion candidates.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#1004 2021-12-27 08:03:28

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,856

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For RobertDyck re March 12th presentation

Best wishes for good health as we enter 2022!

***
The presentation on March 12th is an opportunity for you to bring Large Ship forward to a discerning audience of about 50% males and 50% females.

Here-to-fore, your audience has been exclusively male.

The features of ship design that your previous work solidified should be favorably regarded by the NSS audience.

You are offering safety, comfort, reliability in addition to transport services. 

The price of your design choices is development of robust propulsion methods.

Fortunately, Calliban has agreed to examine the potential of a hybrid fission/fusion propulsion system, and the timeline he indicated was within the March 12th window.

I am preparing Google Documents that you can use to enlist collaboration from NewMars members.

The framework I am offering is of 12 3 minute videos to be stored on YouTube.

The videos would be launched by you (or by the NSS host if you prefer).

In our weekly Zoom meetings, we have the opportunity to rehearse and to record the videos.

I can edit the Zoom recordings to make short YouTube videos.

It has been a while before I made such videos for another organization, but I am confident I can re-learn the procedure.

The video's would be played in sequence, and after each the audience would be invited to submit questions via chat or by voice with transcription to chat.

No questions would be answered during the formal presentation.  (This is standard NSS practice)

At the end of the formal hour, the floor would be opened for Q&A, starting with answers to the questions submitted earlier.

Structure:

Suggestion for session 1:Overview - what Large Ship ** is **

Session 2 - What Large Ship is **NOT** (ie, Aldrin Cycler)

SpaceNut suggested including as topics: Funding and Construction

(th)

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#1005 2021-12-27 10:52:52

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,856

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For RobertDyck re Google Documentation ....

Because you are using a "foreign" email account, Google will ask you to create an account (using your email) to edit the documents I have created.

I just went through the process with a foreign account so I would be able to report what is involved ...

Google wanted me to enter a password and to choose a user name.  The password is probably unique to Google.  I don't think Google checks with the foreign email provider.  I think they are just setting up a password for you to use when you access a document using your "foreign" email.

Then Google sent a test message with pass code to the email.

After ** that ** it asked me to provide a cell phone number, and they sent a text message with another pass code.

After I had jumped through all those hurdles, I was able to update the documents.

For GW Johnson, it should be quite easy, since GW Johnson is using a gmail account.

What I am hoping comes out of this process is development of a set of scripts with production notes for 12 videos to be played for the March 12th audience.

We will (if my concept unfolds) have 12 YouTube videos available for anyone to view at any time.

It may be possible to deploy the videos to the Mars Society channel, but that is a level of achievement beyond where we are now.

We need to show that we can pull this off with a modest level of professionalism before we ask to be upgraded.

A benefit of the current plan (the March 12th event) is that we ** should ** collect a set of smart/insightful questions that we can then address with additional YouTube videos to be added to the channel.

ToDo Item: Please set up edit access to the three starting documents, and add some text.

(th)

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#1006 2021-12-27 19:33:25

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,856

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For Robertdyck re Google Documents and GW Johnson contribution in support of Large Ship atmosphere specification.

GW Johnson sent me a draft of a document in which he reports on study of the atmosphere problem.  He draws from a variety of sources to make points for and against various atmosphere specifications, and arrives at a conclusion that is close to your specification.  Most importantly, he presents evidence that pregnant women and young children should be able to do well.

GW Johnson has confirmed receipt of invitations to edit three documents for the Large Ship presentation preparation.

He has not yet achieved Edit capability, but since he is a gmail user, I am expecting he will succeed eventually.

Shortly I'll add a new document #4 Atmosphere, and I've invited GW Johnson to upload his data on the atmosphere.

(th)

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#1007 2021-12-27 20:21:53

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,291
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

I've received 12 emails from you: Large Ship Segment 1-12. Each contains a very large image that is blank white.

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#1008 2021-12-27 21:30:13

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,856

Re: Large scale colonization ship

for RobertDyck re #1007 .... I received your request for correction of the email address to use for editing of the documents, and will make the changes tomorrow.

The 12 documents are offered for collaborative development of script/structure/notes for the videos we have an opportunity to prepare ahead of the March 12th event.  If you like the idea, we can rehearse and redo 12 short videos until they are perfect, and then save them on YouTube.

You or the host can play them for the event, and then take questions that come in by chat or voice.

It should be a lot less stress on you to have the entire presentation done ahead of time (with a friendly audience of supporters),

The entire presentation might then be given for other groups (if you are interested) without much (or any) work.

(th)

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#1009 2021-12-28 07:48:15

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,856

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For RobertDyck re topic ....

Steady as She Goes seems to be the mantra for this topic ....

Fireworks are going off in an adjacent topic, but this topic remains on course...

The distinctive features of this topic include:

Integrated rotation of the main vessel.   A small companion vessel is added for navigation and observation purposes

To clarify... in contrast to other proposals that might involve counter rotating habitat rings, this vessel has no moving parts. It rotates whole.

Comfortable cabins with plenty of clean water, well serviced atmosphere equal to standard Mars habitat, power and communications

Excellent food provisions including fresh vegetables and more besides as opportunity provides

Start/Stop orbital service as contrasted with an Aldrin Cycler, which loops past Earth and Mars without stopping

A fixed gravity prescription for the habitat ring of exactly equal to Mars, constant and reliable

A fixed rotation of 20 seconds per cycle, constant and reliable

A maximum population of 1000 passengers and 60 crew, although the number of passengers can be fewer as the customer may decide

Propulsion will be found to meet the needs of this vessel.  I recommend proceeding forward in confidence there are solutions to the details of propulsion that will meet the needs of the vision.

A vessel of this size does not need to travel alone.  It would be perfectly reasonable for a fleet of supply and landing vessels that do not need artificial gravity to convoy with the habitat vessel.  Supplies of food, water, fuel and objects of various kinds can travel in the adjacent convoy.

(th)

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#1010 2021-12-28 18:05:21

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,291
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

We talked about a drone that flies free, parallel to the Large Ship. This would be used for star sighting for navigation. A stable platform that doesn't rotate. But if we have one, we could have others. As I mentioned in a past Zoom call, I had envisioned a telescope on the ship with high resolution digital image sensor for astrophotography. This could be controlled by any of the passengers on the ship. Ultimate amateur astronomy. Anyone interested could book the telescope for a given time. If something is discovered, whoever controls the telescope would be given credit; however, any passenger on the ship could observe what the image sensor sees. That could be observed with a smartphone, tablet, laptop computer, or the large flat-screen TV in their cabin. Could we add a space telescope just for amateur astronomy? The ultimate! How big? Hubble has a 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in) mirror, but the whole instrument is 13.2 m × 4.2 m (43 ft × 14 ft). Could we shrink it by providing fewer instruments, but make the telescope almost the same diameter as the primary mirror? James Webb Space Telescope has a mirror 6.5m diameter while Hubble's mirror is 2.4m diameter, collecting area for JWST is 6.25 times Hubble (according to a NASA news release). JWST also has newer image sensors, more sensitive to dim light and higher resolution. How good could we make a new telescope? If we simplify the instruments, but use the latest image sensor, how small could we make it, yet give the same image resolution as Hubble? Yes, it would need thrusters to re-dock with the Large Ship, and control moment gyroscopes for attitude control, but still. Let passengers play with that!

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#1011 2021-12-28 18:23:20

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,856

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For RobertDyck re #1010

It is good to see your thinking continuing for the drone observatory and navigation support vessel.

Is there a need for the support vessel to ever dock with the rotating Large Ship?

There may be, but I don't see it right now.

***
Any chance you are ready to begin working on defining the 12 segments of your talk?

I have tried to offer a framework upon which you can build.  I am hopeful that GW Johnson will join me in supporting your efforts.

The separate navigation and observation support vessel seems like it might be worth a segment, but I'm not sure it would take up a full 3 minutes.

***
Have you decided upon a time for a special Zoom session for work on the Large Ship presentation.

It doesn't need to be a minute longer than necessary.  You can keep going with your 4 hour marathons with kbd512 if you want to.

The short Large Ship sessions would cover one segment and then record a test.  The following week you can record a keeper session and set up another test one.

(th)

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#1012 2021-12-28 18:51:51

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,291
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

The Large Ship will require Control moment gyroscopes for attitude control. Wikipedia:

A control moment gyroscope (CMG) is an attitude control device generally used in spacecraft attitude control systems. A CMG consists of a spinning rotor and one or more motorized gimbals that tilt the rotor’s angular momentum. As the rotor tilts, the changing angular momentum causes a gyroscopic torque that rotates the spacecraft.

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#1013 2021-12-28 18:57:45

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,291
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For the presentation I made at this year's Mars Society Convention, the PowerPoint file is available here: LargeShip

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#1014 2021-12-28 19:29:15

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,856

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For RobertDyck ... re #1013 and PowerPoint file!

Thanks for making this file available ... I had forgotten some of the details, so appreciate the chance to review it.

For all who might wish to help with this project ... please study the LargeShip PowerPoint and make comments/suggestions or ask follow up questions.

One question I do have ... have you changed anything since the Mars Convention?  I ask because you've been interacting with kbd512 for hours on end, so a change here or there might have occurred.

The combination of hand drawn illustrations and text is workable, but I realized that I bring two years worth of reading your posts to seeing the slides.  Someone seeing the slides for the first time might not have the insight that I have.

In particular, I struggled a bit with the cross section of the habitat ring.  An animation would really be nice, but there may not be time enough for something that elaborate.

(th)

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#1015 2021-12-28 22:34:17

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,291
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

I calculated how much sunlight would be required for chloroplasts to provide enough oxygen for 6 people. That's maximum number of passengers per standard cabin. The result required more sunlight than shown in the cross-section. And I'm not sure the greenhouse will have to be that big. Remember, intention is to grow fresh vegetables for the salad bar, not entrees. So will the greenhouse have to be full width?

Cross section shows two corridors, with cabins on either side of each corridor. The ring is 19 metres wide. Each cabin is 4 metres long, each corridor 1.5 metres long. Again, that measures from the centre of the wall to make measurements easy, so subtract a little for thickness of walls. The cross section is drawn with sunlight arriving from the right hand side. There are reflectors to collect sunlight into light pipes; one light pipe per cabin in the cross section. The reflectors will have to be larger than drawn, so large that there won't be room for photovoltaic panels. One reflector is basically the entire width and height of the sunward cabin. So the second reflector will have to be positioned below it, where photovoltaic panels are shown. The third below that, then the fourth. Each reflector collects light for one cabin. This light is not used for illumination, just for bags of chloroplasts for oxygen generation. And to belabour the point: the 2nd reflector will provide light for the inboard cabin on the aft corridor. The 3rd reflector for the inboard cabin on the forward corridor. The 4th reflector for the outboard cabin on the forward corridor. That 4th cabin will have a window that looks out into deep space, no sunlight.

Radiators are outside the pressure hull, on the outer surface of the ring, shown at the bottom of this drawing. We could position radiators on the forward hull, but there's not much room there. The hand drawing does show them there.

I haven't calculated size of the chloroplast bags. I plan to distribute life support so every cabin has enough life support for occupants of that cabin. However, space allocated for that life support equipment may not be sufficient. I said final filtration for water, to process grey water into potable water, would be done by equipment on the upper level. That upper level is where the greenhouse or observation rooms would be. That equipment could be contained within a large box, perhaps with a planter on top for decorative plants, or a soft cushion to act as a seat. There would be only one upper level box per pressure compartment. In addition to final filtration for potable water, it would have compressor(s) for air conditioning, batteries for electrical power storage, and tanks of pressurized oxygen for emergency re-pressurization in case of a leak. The equipment in this upper level life support box would be designed to operate in vacuum, even though it's within the pressurized compartment of an observation room. Scenario: a meteoroid punches through the transparent window ceiling of an observation room, then punches through the floor, which is the ceiling for cabins. The observation room will be evacuated immediately, but the equipment will re-pressurize the cabins long enough for passengers to get out of there as well. The idea is to maintain pressure long enough for evacuation, then pressure doors will automatically close.

Astronomy: slide 24 shows a telescope for amateur use. Rather than one of those configured for remote operation, we would have the drone space telescope. Telescopes in observation rooms would be for manual use. They could still use an equatorial mount customized for ship rotation.

The presentation ended with slide 35. Note there are a few more slides that I didn't have time for. I had timed the presentation to fit within 25 minutes, and I ended just as the moderator gave the warning. So that left precisely 5 minutes for questions. Unfortunately the only question was why it isn't a cycler. But one slide is about construction. I said harvest a metal asteroid for metals for the hull and pressure doors. The PowerPoint also lists harvesting minerals from the Moon, processing to form aluminum oxynitride (ALON) for windows. Considering how cheap SpaceX Starship is supposed to be, could we just ship window panels up from Earth?

The last slide is about the brig. Cells for two prisoners, plus a small office for security. The security office will have monitors for security cameras positioned throughout the ship. One feature I don't want to emphasize with passengers: cabins for enlisted crew (not officers) will have metal walls and secure door so those cabins could be used as additional cells for the brig. Crew would have to be relocated, perhaps taking prisoner's cabin(s). So security office will be right beside cabins for enlisted crew. If crew cabins are reconfigured, then bunk beds with storage will be removed, as well as the TV. Prisoners will get nothing but a cot.

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#1016 2021-12-28 23:18:46

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,291
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

kbd512 argued to make every cabin separately sealed. I think that would take too much mass. I think it's enough: pressure compartments separated into two subcompartments. If one subcompartment is pressure compromised, it can be sealed so others are not. One water wall for the whole compartment, and one upper level box for the who compartment. This means one pressure bulkhead separating the two subcompartments. And one pressure bulkhead between compartments.

kbd512 did point out my simple mass estimation cheat is inaccurate. That will have to change. I used the mass of a composite cabin manufactured to cruise ships. But that cabin is larger than the ones for our Large Ship, and the cabin is entirely self-contained. That composite cabin is designed so the ship just has a pair of steel I-beams sticking out from the corridor, no walls or floor. The cabin slides onto the I-beams. So the cabin provides all walls, floor, ceiling, as well as plumbing, electrical wiring, furniture, bathroom fixtures, etc. This ship will have steel floor, ceiling, and back wall. Estimate for mass of a Large Ship cabin must include carpet, but not floor. Furthermore, with 4 cabins on one side of the corridor for a single compartment, the pressure bulkhead will be a steel wall for one wall of 2 of those 4 cabins. The outside cabin on the sunward side will have a water wall, so a composite wall will be required to protect the water bladder. The corridor wall will be composite. And the image shows a curtain covering the entire outside wall. We won't have that. A TV will cover the window; a TV that will be transparent when turned off. So no curtain.

Show-cabin1.jpg

kbd512 didn't like the idea of using commercial-off-the-shelf bedding. I think bedding for cruise ships would definitely work. The Large Ship will have only 2 sizes of bed: single and queen. A single bed is 30" wide x 75" long. A "rack" for crew of a US aircraft carrier is 30" x 72". The are still "single" beds sold in the UK of this size. A queen size bed is 60" x 75", so pushing two single bunks together forms a queen. That is deliberate, one way of customizing a standard cabin. Bunk beds in a standard cabin will have lower bunks on rails, so they can slide sideways. But the rails will work like those for front seats of a modern car: lift handle to adjust the seat, then release the handle to lock in place. You don't want the beds sliding apart when sleeping. Or... other activity. smile

For reference, bed sizes have changed over the decades. A twin used to be 36" x 75" (3 feet wide). Today a twin is defined as 38" x 75". A "full" bed aka "double" is 54" x 75" (4.5 feet wide). A queen used to be 60" x 75" (I believe) but now it's 60" x 80". There doesn't appear to be a "queen" size in the UK. King is 76" x 80" (6'4" x 6'8"), California King is 72" x 80" (6' x 6'8"). Well... cruise ships also have the feature where two single beds can be pushed together, so they must have bedding for that.

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#1017 2021-12-29 08:23:26

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,856

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For SpaceNut ....

By any chance, can you find some documentation on the kinds of bed design used during the Age of Ocean Clippers?  Those designs would be much more suitable for RobertDyck to be using than the Earth ocean examples he's been using.

Every possible ounce of weight would have been removed by those early aircraft designers, and all of the knowledge gained should be transferable to space.

For RobertDyck ...

The Mars Convention was a useful warm up .... it was minor league ... You're trying out for the Majors .... all those slides need to be remade if they are hand drawn. 

The number of bullet points per slide should be reduced to generally accepted norms.

For GW Johnson ... please direct your question about what the documents are for to the Lead Author, RobertDyck.

(th)

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#1018 2021-12-29 09:51:15

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,858
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

A question for Rob:

What is the list of topics for the 12 google documents.  Would any of my propulsion stuff be of help?  If so,  where should I put it?

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#1019 2021-12-30 14:09:30

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,856

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For RobertDyck (and SpaceNut) ....

FriendOfQuark1 got back in touch ... he has agreed to forward the text below to selected members of the North Houston chapter of National Space Society.

Below is text you might send on to NSS members ...


The NewMars forum is working on a presentation to NSS Houston North for March 12th.

The presenter is Robert Dyck.  He's been working on this since 2019, and he gave a first presentation to the Mars Society during the 2021 Convention.

That presentation is available on YouTube via the Mars Society web site, if anyone is interested.

We are looking to provide a one hour presentation, and the idea we're working on is a set of 12 short (3 minute) videos that we can prepare ahead of time and play on the day of the event.  We would pause for 2 minutes between videos for NSS audience to submit questions via Chat.  We would not try to answer the questions immediately, but would save them for after the presentation.

If someone in the NSS chapter is interested in helping us to prepare our videos, we are holding Zoom meetings each week on Sunday.

To contact tahanson43206, visit newmars.com/forums and call up the NewMarsMember Recruiting topic.  Every day I post an update which includes contact procedure.

I check the email every morning, and will respond the same day.

The current Zoom meeting schedule is 1 AM London time on Monday.  That works for members in the US, Canada and Mexico, including Texas.

However, I am hoping to set up an  earlier Zoom dedicated to the March 12th presentation.

Thanks for any assistance you might be able to provide.

To see the background material, we have 2 years accumulated of posts in the Large Ship topic.

(th)

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#1020 2021-12-30 14:15:08

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,856

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For RobertDyck ...

If you are interested in trying the 12 videos idea, we might be able to plan and rehearse the first two during the coming Sunday Zoom session.

Pending your decision on topics, I'd like to suggest:

1) What the Large Ship ** is **
2) What the Large Ship is ** NOT **

It should be possible to put both of those topics in the can next Sunday, or the following Sunday for sure.

We have a potential candidate topic shaping up for #4, with contribution by Dr. Johnson in support of atmosphere configuration for Large Ship.

(th)

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#1021 2021-12-30 21:39:08

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,004

Re: Large scale colonization ship

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut ....

By any chance, can you find some documentation on the kinds of bed design used during the Age of Ocean Clippers?  Those designs would be much more suitable for RobertDyck to be using than the Earth ocean examples he's been using.

Every possible ounce of weight would have been removed by those early aircraft designers, and all of the knowledge gained should be transferable to space.

Any furniture products will be custom altered for the ships use as they will require stowing conditions or attachment hold downs until AG is in effect as the spin up and down will cause them to be adrift.

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#1022 2021-12-30 23:25:58

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,291
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

We could discuss crew. I tried to estimate crew, but that requires some knowledge I don't have. How many cooks and serving staff required? How many housekeeping staff? But here's what I did. Again, the SS City of New York was a steam ship launched in 1888, scrapped in 1923. It could carry 1740 passengers (max). Our Large Ship could carry 1600 passengers if you cram maximum number of passengers into absolutely every cabin. I don't expect it to ever fly with that number, but this demonstrates the ships are roughly equivalent size. Many things on that ship are now obsolete so we will have to make adjustments, but it's a starting point.

SS City of New York crew:
Captain, chief officer, 6 deck officers.

A boatswain (now called Petty Officer), his mate, 12 quartermasters, 24 sailors. Duties: cleaning, painting, maintaining the vessel's hull, superstructure and deck equipment, preventive maintenance, cargo rigging, winch operations, deck maintenance.

Chief steward, steward,
chief stewardess, and four women in first cabin.
Second cabin & steerage one stewardess each. 36 table waiters, 16 bedroom stewards (housekeeping), 2 in the pantry, 16 cooks, 6 porters, 5 messroom stewards (wait on officers), 14 in second cabin, 16 in the steel age, 4 bakers, 3 butchers, 5 storekeepers (includes bartenders & men in charge of storerooms of provisions).

Ship's carpenter. Chief engineer, 27 assistant engineers, 1 electrician & 3 assistants, 1 blacksmith.

3 donkey men, 31 leading firemen, 54 firemen, 63 trimmers: oil engine and shovel coal.

purser (keeper of accounts), ship's surgeon & one assistant.
---
Let's shrink that. First, the entire department of donkey men is not needed. They shovelled coal into the steam boiler, adjusted the burning coal for optimal operation, removed ash, adjusted the load of coal in storage to keep the ship balanced, ensured coal in storage didn't catch fire, oiled the engine by hand. Modern diesel ships don't need any of that. There are engineers to repair and maintain the ship's engines, but no "donkey men". A spaceship certainly won't have that.

Next a carpenter isn't needed. This ship will be built with modern materials, not wood. And no blacksmith. Engineers, electricians, plumbers, and possibly machinists, but no blacksmith.

Our ship will have one small fine dining room with one waiter, the rest will be buffet with robots to bus tables. So that reduces waiter staff.

Our ship will have greenhouses, so we will need agricultural workers. How many?

I suggest 3 baristas, aka bar tenders. Yes, ship's crew are expected to work long hours. However, these baristas will not just tend bar. They will also be brew masters, because the bar will be a brew pub. They will have to brew beer, wine, vodka, rum, etc onboard the ship. Brew vats behind the bar.

So here's a proposed crew roster:
---
Captain, executive officer (XO), communications officer, navigator
Bosun, 4 sailors (janitor, cargo rigging & handling)
Chief steward, 1 steward for luxury cabin, 8 table waiters, 8 bedroom stewards (housekeeping), 1 chef, 11 cooks, 3 baristas.
Chief engineer, 4 engineering staff (electrician, plumber, etc)
Chief farmer, 10 agricultural workers
Doctor & nurse
Exercise consultant (gym, reporting to Chief steward)
Security
Entertainment director
3 open positions

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#1023 2021-12-30 23:47:36

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,291
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

One ex-girlfriend owns a small business that works as a consultant for cruise lines in Miami Florida. She provided mostly I.T. support. I see her website is still open. I sent her an email to ask if she would be willing to consult on this project. I haven't seen her since March 2000, but we'll see if she responds.

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#1024 2021-12-31 00:36:54

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,291
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

Hmm. Someone has come up with a system using SpaceX Starships to produce artificial gravity. It will spin at 3 RPM. Doesn't that sound familiar. Looks like someone at SpaceX is reading this forum. YouTube video posted Chirstmas Day this year. Click image for YouTube video. Ps. The craft proposed is 3 Starships, not the cover image.

::Edit:: Oops! This design is not by SpaceX themselves, rather a YouTube channel called smallstars. Still images in post #1027
maxresdefault.jpg

Last edited by RobertDyck (2021-12-31 07:00:14)

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#1025 2021-12-31 02:55:34

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 1,977

Re: Large scale colonization ship

Robert, it looks like your hard work is bearing fruit.  You should put together a resume and apply for a job at SpaceX, maybe as a design consultant.  You don't need a green card to do it these days, as remote working has become so much more practical.


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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