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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,405

Re: The Outer Space Treaty

For SpaceNut .... if you have time, please check my investigation of this topic ...

According to Wikipedia, mainland China has NOT signed the treaty, nor has it Ratified the treaty.

I suspect that China is in the interesting position of being free to do whatever it wants on the Moon, Mars or anywhere else.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: The Outer Space Treaty

NASA Boss Bill Nelson Says China 'Aggressive Competitor' After Mars Landing
https://www.newsweek.com/nasa-bill-nels … ng-1593241

Also there is a Moon Treaty...the space review website once asked, a failed international law or waiting in the shadows?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Treaty

' As of January 2019, 18 states are parties to the treaty '
signatories also from France and India

In 2020, U.S. President Donald Trump signed an executive order called "Encouraging International Support for the Recovery and Use of Space Resources." The order emphasizes that "the United States does not view outer space as a 'global commons" and calls the Moon Agreement a "a failed attempt at constraining free enterprise."

louis

Member

From: UK

Registered: 2008-03-24

Posts: 7,208

Re: The Outer Space Treaty

The question I ask is: "do we want the Moon to be illuminated with a sign saying Cocal Cola"? The vast majority of humanity would answer no, I believe.

While I have no animus against Trump I think there does have to be some restraint on "free enterprise" otherwise it can interfere with our freedoms (as we see now with Big Tech censorship of perfectly acceptable views). As I recall the Moon Treaty was pretty rubbish but I believe, given its proximity to Earth and its cultural significance in every society it does need protecting.

NASA Boss Bill Nelson Says China 'Aggressive Competitor' After Mars Landing
https://www.newsweek.com/nasa-bill-nels … ng-1593241

Also there is a Moon Treaty...the space review website once asked, a failed international law or waiting in the shadows?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Treaty

' As of January 2019, 18 states are parties to the treaty '
signatories also from France and India

In 2020, U.S. President Donald Trump signed an executive order called "Encouraging International Support for the Recovery and Use of Space Resources." The order emphasizes that "the United States does not view outer space as a 'global commons" and calls the Moon Agreement a "a failed attempt at constraining free enterprise."

Last edited by louis (2021-05-22 14:59:14)

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Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: The Outer Space Treaty

https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/pr … resources/

The arguement that what you mine is yours but you should not take the last shovel full as then the celestal body is gone problem...
Fine but you must use it there and not bring it anywhere...

louis

Member

From: UK

Registered: 2008-03-24

Posts: 7,208

Re: The Outer Space Treaty

My attitude to the Moon is very different from that towards Mars or indeed the asteroids.

I think the Moon needs quite heavy protection, similar to the Antarctic Treaty. I think mining activities on the Moon would need to be carefully regulated. Likewise we need to preserve the landing sites for US, Russian and other missions. We need to protect the appearance of the Moon as well, given its cultural significance. There's probably a strong argument for locating any urban development on the Far Side of the Moon and ensuring lighting on the Moon is never visible from Earth.

Exploitation of asteroids is fine in my book.

Mars, I want to see turned into a sovereign planetary republic as soon as possible which can then look after itself. 

https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/pr … resources/

The arguement that what you mine is yours but you should not take the last shovel full as then the celestal body is gone problem...
Fine but you must use it there and not bring it anywhere...

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Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: The Outer Space Treaty

Mexico joins Artemis Accords. Mexico will become the fourteenth country to sign the Artemis Accords, a document addressing various issues regarding safe and sustainable space exploration, many of which are directly tied to the Outer Space Treaty and other international accords
https://spacenews.com/mexico-joins-artemis-accords/

Space Force official: U.S. has a broad range of options to respond to space aggression
https://spacenews.com/space-force-offic … ggression/

Russian weapons test endangers the International Space Station
https://thehill.com/opinion/internation … ce-station

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,819

Re: The Outer Space Treaty

I feel that it is very good to have Mexico along side by side.

Done

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clark

Member

Registered: 2001-09-20

Posts: 6,374

Re: The Outer Space Treaty

There is LEO, there is GEO, and there is the Moon. Control of GEO ensures control of LEO, control of the moon ensures control of GEO. Owning the moon owns the gravity well. Why don't you see this?

Calliban

Member

From: Northern England, UK

Registered: 2019-08-18

Posts: 3,793

Re: The Outer Space Treaty

LEO is by far the most important strategic chokepoint for what should be obvious reasons.  It is where all GPS satellites are located.  These are military assets because they allow in-flight guidance of ballistic missiles.  They are therefore key to developing hard target warheads that can target missile silos and other hardened military targets.  LEO is also where spy satellites are.  It is where any orbit-surface bombardment platforms will be located (yes, I know they are illegal).  LEO is also a chokepoint for any missions to GEO or the moon, or anywhere else, because they must pass through it.  If you have a lunar base, supply missions must pass through LEO to get to it.

So it is control of LEO that is essential for control of the moon, not the other way round.  The moon has no strategic importance at present.  It does not allow control of GEO or LEO.  Though it may do in the future.  If large scale space manufacturing ever gets started, the moon is the obvious source of bulk materials.  It will become strategically important at this point, but not before.  This fact is born out by the reality that the US made no attempt to establish a permanent presence on the moon following completion of the Apollo missions.  But many nations have a militarily important stake in LEO.  The development of attack satellites (for use in LEO) and defence against them will be the fourth theatre of warfare in the 21st century.  Hence the need for a space force.

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"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."