Zoom Collaboration

GW Johnson · 2021-11-14 20:50:37

Again, having too much fun. Timed out.

I gotta go get a bath.

14.07 tons of centrifuge module. Spacenut posted some stuff about it. I see a photo posted by Rob.

Applying the Space Shuttle 55% to the LEO non-reusable Falcon-Heavy payload of 63.8 tons, it should be able to deliver 31.9 tons to ISS flown nonreusably. Taking a guess that reusable reduces payload to 2/3 of nonreusable, 21.2 tons to ISS reusably, as an upper bound. Using instead 1/2, that's 15.9 tons reusably to ISS, as a sort of lower-end estimate. SpaceX would know better than I about the reusability decrement.

However, it would appear that a Falcon-Heavy could send the centrifuge module (some 14.07 tons) to the ISS, even flown reusably. And there's enough capability to pack somewhere between a ton and maybe 6 or 7 tons of stuff inside, as well.

A letter concept proposal to SpaceX and NASA should likely center around sending the module up on a Falcon-Heavy flown reusably, with a bit of supplies packed inside. The purpose would be to determine the true effects of partial-gee artificial gravity on the maintenance of health (there being multiple issues to worry about, all with likely different trigger levels), with an ultimate goal of setting artificial gravity requirements for long missions.

The module itself would likely need to be refurbished or partly rebuilt, having sat so many years, and exposed to the weather. That would likely have to be covered in the letter, and may well be more expensive than a Falcon-Heavy launch.

Did this module have an official name? If so, we probably ought to use it.

Food for thought.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-11-14 20:53:59)

RobertDyck · 2021-11-14 21:01:03

Mentioned Roswell, New Mexico, 1947. The CIA operated XB-45 Tornado from Muroc Army Air Field (now Edwards Air Force Base), "one being destroyed early on, killing two pilots."
So was the Roswell incident that destroyed Tornado?

GW Johnson · 2021-11-14 21:11:49

I tried to sign in to the meeting you tried to start, but it did not work. It was screwing around waiting for you to start something. Not enough in that for me to understand what it really wanted you to do.

My slide rule NEVER gave me that much trouble. (Ha ha -- that was a joke)

The Roswell thing could easily have been some sort of aircraft shot down. The newspaper articles never mentioned anyone at the base shooting at any hostiles, but then that sort of thing might not have been reported to press. The XB-45 would have been a prototype for the B-45 Tornado which saw service all during the 1950's. It was a two-engine small bomber about the size of a B-25, using two first-generation jet engines, not unlike those that powered the B-47 Stratojet in 1947, and the prototype B-52 in 1952.

The Roswell Army Air Corps base was one of the 3 training bases used to train those B-29 crews who were assigned to the nuclear group that bombed Japan in 1945. I'm not sure what they were doing at Roswell in 1947, but I would hazard the guess they were still training B-29 crews in how to drop atomic bombs.

If I look around, I could probably find the specs for the B-45. My best guess is a ceiling around 40,000-50,000 feet, about like the other high-performance jets at that time (see F-86). There were no SAM's in those days. There weren't any air-to-air missiles, either. Not until the mid 1950's. The only thing they had to evade in that B-45 would be high-performance fighter gun attacks.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-11-14 21:16:30)

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-14 21:32:25

For GW Johnson and RobertDyck .... thanks for attending the second Zoom session.

When I got back to the "host" system, I found out why it dropped offline during the meeting, and why RobertDyck was able to become host ...

The Chromebook ran out of battery, because I had forgotten to plug in the charger when starting the Zoom session.

Plugging in the charger is the ** first ** line in my start up checklist, but I overlooked it.

***
Thanks for RobertDyck for showing how to activate the Sharing feature.

I'll learn how to do that for the next meeting ...

If there is interest in keeping these sessions going, I'll plan to set up another one next Sunday ... 1 AM UTC (Monday in London).

In the mean time, everyone who would like to use the Zoom account of the Mars Society, please write to SpaceNut to ask him to see what he can do.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-11-14 22:27:05

A zoom message was sent to James with recommendation as to the chair for it.

James gave a response and it reads:
I can schedule any zoom calls you guys need, just let me know. I have our main Pro account.

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-15 06:52:29

For SpaceNut re #55

Thank you ** very ** much for your follow up on the Zoom request!

Please ask Mr. Burk to set up a repeating Zoom session at 1 AM UTC Monday.

I'd like to suggest making the two moderators co-hosts .... RobertDyck took charge of the meeting when the host computer ran out of battery power.

The other co-host would be NewMarsMember@gmail.com

Use the email address in the Profile for RobertDyck to set him up as co-host.

You should receive from Mr. Burk a meeting ID and a password for the recurring meeting.

We need to think about how we want to set this up. The model we put in place seems to work well ...

We publish the ID and password in Post #1 of the Zoom topic, and everyone seems to be able to connect easily.

I'm ** really ** impressed by how one member in particular has adapted to this new communications medium.

Please ask Mr. Burk if he is willing to allow us to publish the meeting ID and password ahead of the meeting.

I'd like to suggest we remove the information from Zoom Post #1 after the meeting is finished.

***
For all ... we can ** still ** set up a temporary Zoom meeting for an emergency. We can use the method we've been using.

This is important because we may receive a response from any of the organizations to whom we are sending the Deltion Purchase recommendation.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-15 11:54:01

The time we have chosen for the weekly Zoom meeting was proposed by Clinician_Antilles.

No time works for everyone, in a global collaboration.

I received feedback today about how things look to someone in Mountain time.

They had planned a barbecue supper in their time zone, and weren't about to let anything interfere << grin >>

As things stand, with Daylight Savings turned off for the moment, we have:

5 PM Pacific (just before supper)
6 PM Mountain (preparing supper)
7 PM Central (supper time)
8 PM Eastern (prime evening television)

1 AM next day in Europe ... Good Grief time.

All I can say is, for those who are willing to put up with the inconvenience, ** there ** is dedication to the Mars Society endeavor.

(th)

RobertDyck · 2021-11-15 14:46:45

You can never please everyone. Before COVID, I volunteered every Friday. Car-pooled with coworkers (co-volunteers?). The guy who was supposed to drive home had a panic attack at the idea of staying late. He insisted on dinner with his wife at 4:00pm. Why 4? For commercial business, office doesn't close until 5:00pm, and you don't pack to leave until after 5:00. Commercial employers get upset if you cut working hours short, so if paid time goes to 5:00, you're expected to work every minute until 5:00. You can pack up to go home on your own time. Then there's the drive home. So why did this guy insist on dinner with his wife at 4:00? Created trouble for me, because we were only there once per week. When working on a repair, I would have forgotten what I was doing by the next week, so had to finish. And frankly my reason for volunteering was to prove to employers that I have a work ethic. Leaving early doesn't do that. And the guy who insisted on dinner at 4:00 also showed up an hour or two late every day we volunteered, took an hour or two off in the middle of the day to go home to play with his dog, and whenever I wasn't there he left half an hour to an hour early. Some times I told him to go, I'll take a bus home. But frankly, if/when they get the shop running again, I just won't. I have work now, even if it isn't full-time.

Anyway, that guy has dinner at 4:00. My sister's husband is an I.T. manager, they have dinner at 8:00pm. Different people have different habits. And for those who work, you have to schedule the meeting away from work hours. So often dinner time is the only time available.

kbd512 · 2021-11-15 16:06:45

Going to Mars isn't at least as important as prime time television?

I guess everyone has priorities, but still...

RobertDyck · 2021-11-15 17:13:04

Clinician_Antilles didn't show this week. May I suggest a different time?

8:00pm Central Europe (western and central Europe, Norway & Sweden)
7:00pm Western Europe (UK, Portugal)
2:00pm Eastern (New Hampshire, Atlantic coast)
1:00pm Central (Winnipeg, Texas)
noon Mountain (Colorado, etc)
11:00am Pacific (California, Pacific coast)

This should work for a Sunday.

SpaceNut · 2021-11-15 18:46:08

follow up message sent for further action.

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-15 18:53:56

For RobertDyck ... re #60

I wasn't expecting ** anyone ** so to have you and GW Johnson there was a bonus!

If SpaceNut is successful in working with Mr. Burk to provide us with a regular Zoom meeting at 1 AM UTC, ** and ** if he is successful in securing co-host status for the two of us, I would like to suggest you Host the earlier session you described in post #60.

There have been no hints that anyone in our present European membership would be interested in a Zoom meeting, but we have over 18,000 slots for new members, so that might become a popular meeting time.

On the ** other ** hand, we don't have anything settled in stone at the moment ...

Please do us all a favor and use UTC to request the meeting time you would like to host. That would be 7:00 UTC

SpaceNut, if you have not yet contacted Mr. Burk, please include the suggestion of RobertDyck in your message.

I am willing to set up a temporary Zoom meeting in case of an emergency (or something that can't wait until Sunday), so we are covered in that department.

If members have preferences for one of the two choices on offer, please add posts with comments.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-16 09:12:05

For all: Mr. Burk has set up a recurring Zoom meeting for NewMars members, using the Mars Society Pro account.

After re-reading the email from Mr. Burk, I ** think ** the account can be used **any** time, and not just the time we pioneered.

RobertDyck has been recommended as "in charge" of the account by SpaceNut. I think that is an excellent suggestion, since RobertDyck has been a member of the NewMars forum since 2002. RobertDyck suggested a change in meeting time to earlier in the day on Sunday, to provide for our European members. A change of the meeting time to earlier would solve some of the conflict problems experienced by US members recently.

We would "normally" schedule the next meeting for 1 AM UTC on November 22nd. However, if I am reading the message from Mr. Burk correctly, we can choose another time and are not locked into that one.

Comments from everyone are most welcome!

Many thanks to SpaceNut (Senior Administrator) for contacting Mr. Burk and for providing leadership since 2004.

***
Detail section:

We have shown that publishing the Zoom login ID and password works well for our members.

However, I am concerned about public posting of the information for the recurring session.

There may be (and probably) is a more secure way to distribute the login/password information to attendees.

That would ** also ** reduce chances of a spammer picking up the meeting information.

Let's discuss ** that ** situation as well!

(th)

NewMarsMember · 2021-11-16 09:31:24

Project Management software (online)

Clinician_Antilles has been recommending that we start thinking along these lines ...

Here is a part of a recent email:

Hi all,
I am certainly willing to participate! Monday 1AM UTC will work for me some days, will not work on some (dependent on if I am on after hours call for work). I think if we are going to go towards repeating meetings however, it would be prudent to consider using some sort of project management software to help manage tasks and workflows for the forum.
Let me know what you guys think of that!
Cheerfully,
Vardaan

I note that C_A explained that the 1 AM UTC meeting time would NOT work for him if he is on call.

I interpret this as a release from the 1 AM UTC time with which we started, and further encouragement to RobertDyck to organize a meeting next Sunday at 7 PM UTC.

(th)

Last edited by NewMarsMember (2021-11-16 09:32:21)

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-16 09:57:49

Post #1 of this topic has been edited to reflect the new situation.

We can still use the Post #1 of this topic to provide an anchor for members to discover plans for meetings, and procedures for connecting.

However, we are NOT going to be able to publish the ID and password information, since the forum is open to the Internet, and spammers are hard at work every second of every day. We have 18,844 refurbished user accounts created by spammers, and most of the "guests" listed on the main page of the forum are probably spammers.

The actual time of the next meeting is in discussion.

The host of the next meeting is in discussion.

Comments and requests are welcome.

Email is the "traditional" method employed by Zoom users, and it seems the likely candidate for NewMars members.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-16 11:28:48

The purpose of this post is to discuss responsibilities of NewMars members who are entrusted with the ID and Password of a Mars Society professional Zoom account.

If I understand the message from Mr. Burk correctly, anyone who received the ID and password in the initial distribution can create a Zoom session at any time.

The host can then invite attendees using email or (apparently) other social media.

As each invited person receives the ID and password, I ** assume ** they will be in possession of the keys to create a Zoom meeting.

Once a member has received the ID and password (by email or other means) then they can save that information in a file, and use it to join future meetings.

They can (I'm assuming until told otherwise) ** also ** start their own meeting.

We are going to need to accept responsibility for security of the ID and password.

I don't think this is going to be a problem for anyone already in the group. it's just something to keep in mind.

In ** all ** cases, it appears NewMars members will need to post a message in this topic (Zoom Collaboration) to request admission to a NewMars Zoom session. If the member ** saves ** the information, then they can (presumably) join any future meeting that might be called.

That is how things seem to work in the professional associations with whom I attend Zoom meetings, and there has been no report of a problem with inappropriate use of the service.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-11-16 11:59:29

That is correct tahanson43206 and RobertDyck have received the email with the information from James.
I believe RobertDyck can edit the first post as well and if not I will set it as so.
If Kbd512 would like the email as well I will do so.

Happy chatting.

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-17 09:09:01

For all ... I ran a test of the new Mars Society Zoom today. The test went smoothly.

I experimented with some of the reaction icons, the chat and screen sharing. I also tested what happens if the lead work station goes off line. The session held up.

There is a possibility we might be able to publish the meeting ID if we keep the passcode private.

As promised, the Recording feature is active, so if we happen to carry out business discussion that need to be remembered, we have the means to do that.

All in all, I am quite encouraged.

We still have pending a decision on when to set a time for the meeting next Sunday.

I am in favor of changing to 7 PM UTC as suggested by RobertDyck, but would appreciate feedback from other NewMars members.

In particular, the 7 PM UTC time should work for our European members, although they will encounter the same issues the US members found ... Evening meetings on Sunday tend to conflict with family time, and with other activities long enjoyed at that hour.

There's probably no perfect time for a global organization, but a move to 7 PM UTC might come a bit closer to an ever-elusive optimum.

(th)

GW Johnson · 2021-11-17 22:08:46

I'm not sure what to think. 7 PM UTC is 1 PM central standard the same day. If you stay with 7 PM UTC Monday, I am looking at 1 PM Monday central standard. Will be at work.

GW

RobertDyck · 2021-11-17 22:13:25

GW Johnson,
I suggested 7pm UTC / 1pm Central on Sunday. I specifically mentioned people who go to church should be free by then.

Clinician_Antilles · 2021-11-18 00:48:41

I am in agreement with Mr. Dyck and Johnson on this. I think Sunday will arguably be the best time for everyone...and to clarify what I meant, when I am on call I may have to step away to deal with a clinical issue. This does not mean that I will not be in the meeting, just that I may have to step away at a moments notice

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-18 07:24:51

For GW Johnson ... the confusion over Monday and Sunday came about because the initial time suggested for the first meeting was 1 AM Monday UTC.

That time was 7 PM Central on Sunday. The new suggested time (per RobertDyck with endorsements) is 7 PM UTC on Sunday.

By adopting this suggested meeting time, we would eliminate confusion between Sunday and Monday for US and European members.

However, that won't help future members elsewhere on Earth, who will inevitably have to deal with the International Date Line.

For now, based on the discussion, I will change the planned meeting time for the next Zoom meeting to 7 PM UTC Sunday.

Thanks to everyone for participating in the decision making process.

Edit: Zoom Post #1 has been updated to show 7 PM UTC on Sunday.

The professional associations appear to be using an email service to publish meeting ID and passcode to members.

That is something we might want to consider at some point. In the mean time, the meeting ID and passcode are permanent.

They will be given by email to any forum member who requests them. Please keep them confidential, to avoid risk of their being picked up by spammers.

To simplify things, NewMarsMember will send the meeting ID and passcode to everyone who has attended one of the two Zoom meetings.

Please save the meeting ID and passcode in a file which is easy to find when you want to log in.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-18 09:03:38

Clinician_Antilles just informed me that the new Zoom time (7 PM UTC) does ** not ** work for him because he is working at that time.

Naturally, that explains the time originally suggested.

OK ... no problem! We have been granted use of the Mars Society Zoom without time restriction.

If any two NewMars members would like to meet at a time they agree upon, I can (and will if possible) set up a Zoom session on the stand-alone workstation, and the members can meet for as long as they like. i don't have to be there, although I may attend if convenient.

The NewMars forum structure seems to be working well enough to support coordination of meetings. Let's give it a try.

We'll move the main meeting to 7 PM UTC ... I like the benefit of availability to our European members.

However, special meetings for just two people wanting to get together can be set up as needed.

Please use UTC time for all planning, and include the day if one of the participants is on the other side of the International Date Line.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-18 10:08:49

Clinician_Antilles sent a picture of Dexter in this morning's email to NewMarsMember.

Dexter is half as large as C_A and he is just a "puppy" .... Good Grief! If he is not a dwarf breed he's going to be the size of a St. Bernard or a Shetland Pony!

C_A now has the ID and passcode to set up a Zoom session at 1 AM UTC Monday November 22nd, if there is anyone who would like to meet Dexter.

C_A, if you want to set up a test you can host a Zoom session at any time. You can create a second logon if you have another computer available.

If you need (or want) a NewMars member to help with practice before Sunday, just post a note here.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-18 10:38:00

For RobertDyck re Zoom at 7 PM UTC on Sundays ...

Would you be interested in serving as the primary host for that meeting?

I can serve as backup if you are out of town or otherwise unavailable.

I am hoping that C_A will pick up the 1 AM UTC Monday time slot as primary host.

If all that happens, I can stay available for ad hoc meetings that might be requested.

(th)

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#51 2021-11-14 20:50:37

Re: Zoom Collaboration

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Re: Zoom Collaboration

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Re: Zoom Collaboration

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