Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

SpaceNut · 2021-11-04 18:32:53

Contact request made for James to get latest copy and information on the drill.
GW was cc'd to the email sent to James.

GW Johnson · 2021-11-05 08:28:06

Just to let y'all know, I printed the lander proposal to Elon Musk, appended the resumes, added a handwritten note about the Deltion closure urgency, and will mail it today.

GW

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-05 08:36:52

For SpaceNut re #276 - Thanks for taking this action! - Best wishes for success!

For GW Johnson re #277 - Thanks for your initiative here, and best wishes for success!

A NewMars Zoom session is scheduled for Sunday evening.

The original purpose was to introduce C_A to GW Johnson. However, I'd like to suggest that updates on the Deltion opportunity might be appropriate.

(th)

GW Johnson · 2021-11-05 11:41:46

It's mailed. With tracking. Scheduled delivery date 11-9-2021.

We can chat about whatever you want during the Sunday Zoom meeting. I have no clue how to host one, all I need is an email with a link to click on to get in. If there's some sort of password or entry code, I will need that, too.

GW

SpaceNut · 2021-11-05 17:44:06

James got back with a cc to GW. Hopefully you have gotten it as its a request for information to present the lander to Robert Zubrin.
I am assuming that you got the email from me that was to set the stage for mars society to get into the game.

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-05 19:11:57

For SpaceNut re #280

Thanks for this ** really ** encouraging news!

I trust that Dr. Johnson will move swiftly to send the Lander Proposal to Dr. Zubrin!

I'll check the Portal tomorrow and pitch in if my help is needed.

And also! I'm looking forward to seeing the email you sent!

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-11-05 19:34:10

email from james on its way

GW Johnson · 2021-11-06 09:08:16

If I understand correctly, I need to send the lander proposal to Dr. Zubrin? How, by mail, by email? Which version did Spacenut give to James Burk? I presume you want exactly the version that is on its way to Musk. I will send that file to Thomas at his email as a pdf file.

GW

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-06 09:49:06

For GW Johnson re #283

I will be opening the Portal shortly.

I'll look for guidance from SpaceNut on how to proceed.

My guess is (and it is ** only ** a guess) that Mr. Burk will accept the pdf version, because it is faster and convenient for him to deliver to Dr. Zubrin. He can print it or deliver it as a file as he may decide.

Update at 13:24 local time (17:24 UTC)

The "Final" version of the lander proposal was forwarded to Mr. Burk. It appears (as I understand his email) that he already forwarded the earlier version as supplied by SpaceNut. Hopefully he will forward the final version as well, because it contains the suggestion to purchase Deltion.

The desired launch date for the Engineering Probe package is September of 2022. There is still time for that to happen, but once the decision is made, and resources are allocated, it will be necessary to maintain a tight schedule.

Clinician_Antilles has suggested a web based project tracking service. Such a tool might prove useful as the project team moves ahead on multiple fronts.

This situation is on the agenda for the Zoom meeting at 1 AM UTC in London on November 8th.

Please see Post #1 of the Zoom Collaboration topic for details and procedures.

There will be no emails to anyone. The free version of Zoom does not include that feature.

Instead, the login and password will be posted in Post #1 of the Zoom topic.

Guests will be able to copy and paste ID and password into their copy of Zoom.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-11-06 17:00:57

Yes James had the first version as a tickler to our activity as a glimpse that should we succeed and we have.
So hopefully the recent version you sent will get into Zubrin's hand as that how I read Jame's reply.

I am also think of another business opportunity based on one of your post Th, for mars society income and for out reach....

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-06 17:36:08

For SpaceNut re Zoom tomorrow ... While you will not be attending, I ** can ** report that GW Johnson has completed the first phase of a test to be sure he can log into the meeting tomorrow. He has confirmed his computer has Zoom, and he can start it running. I put dummy data into the #1 Post of the Zoom topic, so if anyone would like to practice connecting ahead of time, they can do so.

The test data will NOT connect to anything, but if you go through the drill, you will have exercised ALL the steps that will be needed to connect at meeting time tomorrow.

FYI ... looking forward ... an Internet outage can occur during a meeting. I've seen it happen in a professional meeting, and my service is subject to outage. In the longer term, I would like to have co-host on a different Internet provider, able to pick up the session of my connection fails.

The only confirmed attendees tomorrow are C_A and GW Johnson, but I am hoping RobertDyck and kbd512 may be able to join.

If 40 minutes is not enough, I can start another session.

Also longer term ... Mr. Burk has kindly offered to make the paid version of Zoom used by the Mars Society available.

This MUST go through you. There is no way around it. You don't need to worry about actually running the software. You need to know how to run it and delegate it to someone you trust.

I believe you will be entrusted with the ID (a number) and the password (probably text).

Mr Burk can and probably will change the password frequently, so we need to be prepared for that.

(th)

kbd512 · 2021-11-06 17:43:58

tahanson43206,

I'm certainly going to try to join.

GW Johnson · 2021-11-09 08:33:31

I checked the tracking of the mailing this morning (Tues 11-9). It was delivered to an agent (presumably for Spacex) on Monday 11-8 while I was out of town for a funeral, which is 1 day sooner than originally projected.

I believe that means it is in the hands of Spacex employees for final delivery within the company. As to whether Musk or any of his engineers have yet seen it, who knows? But it seems to be in Spacex hands. I'd guess someone will see the letter and what it transmits within the next few days. We might hear some sort of reply next week, but that's a low probability, unless it strikes a chord somehow.

I emailed copies of the final file to both TH and Spacenut for delivery to James Burk, and through him, Robert Zubrin. I am guessing that has taken place. If Zubrin is intrigued by this idea, then I would encourage Burk to urge Zubrin to contact Musk about it. This final form was worded to appeal directly to Musk, because of his ISRU propellant requirements, and because his ships will be both heavy and quite tall.

Bezos is more interested in the moon, but if y'all want, I can rewrite the final a bit and send it to him. The most-developed Deltion rover drill was a 1-m unit intended for the moon, but there are competitors for Deltion in that arena, including the drill that was in that PhD dissertation, which I think ESA is sending to Mars. That is a 1-m drill.

GW

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-09 08:46:52

For GW Johnson re #288

Congratulations of safe delivery of the Lander proposal to SpaceX.

Best wishes for a successful outcome there.

****
However, Deltion cannot count upon a rescue by SpaceX.

I recommend sending the same proposal and purchase request to Blue Origin.

My guess is that Mr. Bezos is more interested in his rivalry with Elon Musk than any specific destination.

I recommend pitching the idea o build a landing pad and launch complex on Mars with the Blue Origin name on it.

It is worth keeping in mind that Blue Origin has deep space aspirations. I just saw a note on the Internet Feed showing that Blue Origin is testing a mockup of an orbital stage. If they want to launch in the next Mars window they have a year to reach readiness.

(th)

GW Johnson · 2021-11-09 13:29:54

It takes longer than that to prove out a rocket as ready for mission use. Same applies to SpaceX. Neither SpaceX or Blue Origin is going to send anything significant to Mars in 2024, and I really doubt 2026. Certainly not 2022.

But one of them (or somebody else) might buy a ride upon a Spacex Falcon-Heavy to send multiple drill rovers to multiple sites on Mars, to find out exactly strong the dirt is that they have to land upon, and whether there is lots of ice (and how contaminated it is) underneath that dirt.

I rather doubt we can seriously think NASA would undertake such a thing; they are too in-bed with "old space", and have swallowed hook, line, and sinker the "old space" proposition that it takes decades instead of years to do anything. ESA and JAXA are too wrapped up in their own efforts to take on anything new.

Myself, I know of no other names to try this proposal on. I will write up a BO version. It needs to consider the moon as well as Mars, which is Bezos's target.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-11-09 13:32:07)

SpaceNut · 2021-11-09 21:00:55

Ames and JPL would be the only connecting point for the mission to move forward within Nasa.

https://data.nasa.gov/dataset/Dragon-De … -ezcd/data

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2017A … H/abstract

https://techport.nasa.gov/view/10636
project managers listed on the page

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … via%3Dihub
this page give run down on the people doing what

We might be able to provoke an effort for the reasons we have detailed for a drill use....

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-10 06:42:45

For SpaceNut re #291

Thank you for providing lines to possible contact points within NASA!

There is some urgency in moving to make connections, because the Deltion clock is ticking.

(th)

Clinician_Antilles · 2021-11-10 23:04:03

Good Evening gentlemen,

I was not able to find a specific mailing address for blue origin, but I have written the address of their company headquarters below:

21218 76th Avenue South Kent, WA 98032 United States

This is their phone number:

1-253-872-0411

Below is a potential resource for people to contact:

https://www.blueorigin.com/news/blue-or … f-advisors

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-11 07:13:01

For C_A re #293 ....

Thank you for this research!

SearchTerm:BlueOrigin address of headquarters and list of contacts

(th)

GW Johnson · 2021-11-13 11:14:52

I re-wrote the proposal a tad to tailor it for Jeff Bezos/Blue Origin. Sent a pdf copy to TH. If OK, I need to incorporate the Blue Origin headquarters address C_A found, along with the title "Founder" for Bezos. The address is OK, is the title OK?

Should a copy of this slight modification also go to James Burk or Robert Zubrin?

Any other targets?

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-11-13 11:16:08)

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-13 13:04:22

For GW Johnson re #295

Thanks for working on the Blue Origin variation! I'll look at the pdf shortly.

This topic is open for input by anyone who might have time to look at the contact list provided by C_A.

I'd like to see this version in the mail on Monday. We have limited time to find a buyer for Deltion.

Regarding copies to Mars Society ... This topic is a live update option for anyone in the Mars Society who might wish to obtain a copy.

We need to keep working on the assumption we are the only support team for Deltion.

For all ... if you know someone who has the deep pockets needed to pick up Deltion, now is an excellent time to let them know about the opportunity.

Update at 22:00 UTC ... The file arrived safely. I'll study it tomorrow.

Reminder ... if someone would care to study the link that C_A provided, we need a name to contact within Blue Origin. Ideally the person would have decision making authority, and (potentially) an interest in Deltion.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-14 09:26:39

For GW Johnson ...

The revised version of the proposal, adapted for Blue Origin, looks good.

We need to work on the address/contact section, and I'll turn to that next.

However, please consider making a special print of ** just ** the embedded urgent text and hand write a note on that as a top page.

This would be similar to the hand written note you added to the SpaceX version, but it would call attention to the deadline of November 30th.

In addition, there is the concern of focus on the Moon .... If we can (somehow) inspire Blue Origin to pick up the IP from Deltion, all would be for naught if they buy and sit on it. We need a partner who is willing to actually ** USE ** the IP to catch a trip to Mars next September.

As soon as you mail this letter, please consider notifying Mr. Richard of your initiatives, and invite him to go for the best offer if we are lucky enough to create a bidding situation.

From my perspective, "best offer" is NOT necessarily the highest dollar value. The "best offer" might have a lower dollar value, but it would have a clear intention to develop and use the technology and to do so by next September.

***
If anyone in the group has clue about who to approach at Blue Origin, now is an excellent time to post something in this topic.

If anyone NOT in the group happens to read this, and ** they ** have an idea for who would be best to approach at Blue Origin, write the NewMarsMember portal.

That email is checked once a day.

Update at 17:51 UTC ...

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 85#p187285

The link above points to a (short) report on a department at Blue Origin that might be a good fit for the Lander Proposal.

(th)

GW Johnson · 2021-11-14 16:02:12

Got two things from this: (1) basic tailored rewrite looks OK, and (2) still looking for right person in address at Blue Origin.

I already saw in another thread a suggestion for the advanced programs guy at Blue Origin (where the link points), including what looks like a title for him. Will revise draft to that contact person, and call it final, and print it out.

And, I will include a handwritten note stapled to front page calling out the time critical Nov 30 date, similar to the SpaceX version.

Not a peep out of SpaceX yet.

Will contact Jim Richard at Deltion by email and tell him what we have done, after I mail the Blue Origin version. Which will be Monday sometime.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-11-14 16:04:56)

SpaceNut · 2021-11-14 17:22:15

Thanks for the work and all the updates GW. This is important to ensure men will land safely not just cargo and who cares if there is a lose...
Musk may have deep pockets but they will go cold if the hype is just that...

tahanson43206 · 2021-11-14 17:32:55

For GW Johnson ... best wishes for successful visits to the doctor for both you and the cat!

***
Thanks for selecting proceeding with the Director of Advanced Projects. I think he is in a position to make a difference, if he is interested in the concept on offer, or in Deltion, or (ideally) ** both !!! **.

Thanks too, for thinking of asking Mr. Richard for suggestions of people/organizations we might approach on his behalf.

It seems to me the package you put together should hold up for any audience at the level of Mr Musk or Mr. Bezos.

(th)

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#276 2021-11-04 18:32:53

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#277 2021-11-05 08:28:06

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#278 2021-11-05 08:36:52

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#279 2021-11-05 11:41:46

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#280 2021-11-05 17:44:06

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#281 2021-11-05 19:11:57

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#282 2021-11-05 19:34:10

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#283 2021-11-06 09:08:16

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#284 2021-11-06 09:49:06

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#285 2021-11-06 17:00:57

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#286 2021-11-06 17:36:08

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#287 2021-11-06 17:43:58

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#288 2021-11-09 08:33:31

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#289 2021-11-09 08:46:52

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#290 2021-11-09 13:29:54

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#291 2021-11-09 21:00:55

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#292 2021-11-10 06:42:45

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#293 2021-11-10 23:04:03

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#294 2021-11-11 07:13:01

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#295 2021-11-13 11:14:52

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#296 2021-11-13 13:04:22

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#297 2021-11-14 09:26:39

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#298 2021-11-14 16:02:12

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#299 2021-11-14 17:22:15

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

#300 2021-11-14 17:32:55

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

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