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#226 2021-10-08 09:43:25

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For kbd512 re #225

At the risk of replacing your ID with mine, the work you've done here is inspiring (to me for sure!)

SearchTerm:Cryogenic propellant
SearchTerm:Propellant management in low gravity
SearchTerm:Refuel Collection of links provided by kbd512 to show prior art for on-orbit refueling

For GW Johnson .... I have not yet started reading the links provided by kbd512, but am intending to follow up this weekend.

For all who might be interested in helping GW Johnson with his on-orbit refueling proposal, please read what you can and report what you find.

The issue at hand is whether someone has already defined the on-orbit refueling solution invented/described/proposed by GW Johnson.

There is no shame to be the second (or third for that matter) to invent something. The winner is the team that can apply whatever is invented and make a profit on the venture.  Invention and profit are two ** very ** different things.

(th)

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#227 2021-10-08 12:06:24

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,621
Website

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

Many thanks to Kbd512 for those links.  I will go through them this weekend.  Meanwhile,  I have thought of a different geometry for pitting spinning cylindrical tanks onto some sort of station in orbit.  Radially outward is not the only way to do this. 

Tom:  I have not received any emails at all from RobertDyck,  not even in my spam folder.  Some how or another,  nothing he has sent me has arrived. 

OK,  found this in today's "Daily Launch" from AIAA:

Some Mars Spacecraft Could Skip Most Stringent Cleaning Practices
SPACE (10/7) details that a 55-page report “developed by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine at NASA’s request and released on Thursday” notes that “Mars-bound landers and rovers may not need to undergo quite such stringent cleaning procedures as they previously have before leaving Earth.” The researchers found that the harsh conditions on Mars would sterilize any microbes from Earth that could find their way aboard a Mars-bound spacecraft.

        Aviation Week (10/7) reports that “a U.S. National Academy of Science report recommends NASA develop and demonstrate a more nuanced, flexible approach toward meeting planetary protection protocols for landed missions, while still protecting potentially habitable zones.”


--------------

What I think that really means is that the National Academy of Sciences has come out to say the extremist planetary protection elements in (or associated with) NASA are full of hogwash about extreme decontamination requirements for Mars.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#228 2021-10-08 12:24:48

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For GW Johnson re #227

As a follow up to your mention of the resume for RobertDyck ... I forwarded two documents from the Portal, and they should be in your email inbox.

In addition, I sent a reply to (attempt to) cover the other items in your email that arrived at the Portal this morning.

For SpaceNut ...

This is a request for your Search skills ...

GW Johnson asked me to stand by to call two gents if the letter just mailed to them does not arrive for some reason.

The timeframe we have in mind is October 18th.

Because I'm busier than a one-armed paper hanger these days, please prepare an "Executive Summary" for me to read ahead of a call, if I am asked to make one.  Your usual offerings are both broad and deep on whatever subject you address.

In this case, I am asking for you to design a way for me to learn everything I need to know about each gentleman, but not a thing more.

The names are:

Jim Richards

Dale Boucher

Thanks!

(th)

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#229 2021-10-08 19:02:18

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,621
Website

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

Tom: 

I've seen no emails from you or RobertDyck.  Is my email address as stored in NewMars correct?  I have no clue how to find out.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#230 2021-10-08 19:19:50

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For GW Johnson,

I'll check to see if the Portal shows a problem.

I'll also try sending an email from a personal account.

Could you do an experiment?

If Mrs. Johnson has an email account with a different provider, see if she can send you an email.

Your account is with gmail.

Interesting!

Oh ... question for you .... are you logging into Gmail using a browser, or do you have an email program pulling messages from Google?

If you are using an email program the thing to do is to log into gmail using a browser.

Update at 21:27 local time ... Test message sent from private account.

This message is from tahanson43206.

It is for Dr. Gary W Johnson.

Please confirm if the message arrives on NewMars in the Lander Topic.

(th)

(th)

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#231 2021-10-08 19:52:32

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 259

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For GW Johnson....

I just sent a test email from the Portal.
(th)

For Dr. Johnson,
This is a test message from the portal.
Please confirm receipt on the NewMars Lander topic.
Sent at 21:50 local time (20:50 Houston time)
(th)

(th)


Recruiting High Value members for NewMars.com/forums, in association with the Mars Society

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#232 2021-10-08 20:01:13

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,333

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

"Executive Summary"  boiled down from the last version 8 lander document.
I can see what I can do...

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#233 2021-10-08 20:05:11

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For SpaceNut re #232

Thanks for your reply .... This is not a request for an Executive Summary of the Lander Document Version 8.

I am hoping you can find link to help me prepare for a possible telephone call with the two gents named in the post #228

I'd like to know a little bit about their careers, and most importantly their work on the Canadian drill.

Thanks for considering the request.

(th)

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#234 2021-10-08 20:24:45

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For RobertDyck re problems with email to GW Johnson ...

My private email account (not the one on file with NewMars) got through to Dr. Johnson this evening.

I saved the files you sent on the Portal.  I'll send copies to the backup system, and attempt to forward them to GW Johnson.

I've not heard of problems with gmail before, but I suppose there is always a first time for everything.

(th)

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#235 2021-10-08 20:30:15

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,333

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

Jim Richard
Business Development
705-824-1500 x26
jrichard@deltion.ca

Dale Boucher
CEO Boucher has been working on space mining technology since 1999.
705-824-1500 x21
dboucher@deltion.ca

https://deltion.ca/mining-in_space/
The page with all of the projects and drills that have been designed for mission uses.

https://podtail.com/podcast/spaceq/epis … -space-mi/
https://spaceq.ca/deltion-innovations-w … ce-mining/
https://www.sudburyminingsolutions.com/ … on-1605453

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#236 2021-10-08 20:45:48

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For SpaceNut re #235

Thanks very much!  That appears to be what I would need if Dr. Johnson asks me to place a call to either gentleman.

SearchTerm:Canadrill background links (that search term works best for me to find Post 235 quickly)

*** For GW Johnson ...

Just FYI .... I sent copies of the files you requested to the backup computer.

Later this evening I'll attempt to send them on to you using the private email that worked.

Related ... I sent a message from the Portal to you, to see if the email without attachments can get through.

(th)

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#237 2021-10-09 07:55:03

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For GW Johnson re new DropBox account access....

You should have received an invitation to use my Dropbox account.

You can create an account ... Just enter your name and provide a password.... the email should already be entered.

Once approved by Dropbox, you should see a test file that begins: 2018 12 24 Charge status...

Once we get this backup procedure working, we should be able to transfer files even if Google Nanny refuses them.

Update at 9:58 local time...

I just uploaded two additional files.

Since you and I are the only people who can see the files, I am reasonably confident they are secure in this location.

(th)

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#238 2021-10-09 17:18:48

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 259

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For all who may be interested in the thicket of  brambles in which we (Lander team) find ourselves...

The files from RobertDyck, intended for GW Johnson, are being blocked by Google's Nanny.  The symptom is that any email from any email provider that includes the files is deleted without notice of any kind.

I set up a NewMars folder on a Dropbox account I've had for a while.  I shared that folder with Dr. Johnson, using the email address he has on file with NewMars forum.

When Dropbox sent an invitation for him to connect to ** my ** dropbox, he ended up logged into an account created by Mrs. Johnson.

Not to worry .... it is possible for Mrs. Johnson to create a NewMars folder, and to share it with me, using the Portal email.

When I receive notice from Dropbox that the connection has been created, I will be able to upload the files.

Since we ** know ** that Dr. Johnson can access the account created by Mrs. Johnson, I am reasonable confident he will be able to access the files.

This is all more complicated than it needs to be, but Google Nanny doesn't like something in the files, so we have to steer clear.

(th)


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#239 2021-10-12 08:55:10

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

As of 2021/10/12, the logjam of email at the address of GW Johnson appears to have been cleared.

To try to help the members of the Lander team to stay focused, here is a reminder of the ExoMars launch schedule:

The weather at Mars, the type of launcher, and the laws of physics governing the planets determined a 12-day launch window starting on September 20, 2022.

ExoMars 2022: The Way Forward to Mars - SciTechDaily
scitechdaily.com › exomars-2022-the-way-forward-to-mars

If we (Lander team) are going to pull off the vision of GW Johnson in the current cycle, we need to be aiming for that window.

We are now inside a year to that date, and a lot has to happen for the launch to occur.

I think that trying for multiple sites is a stretch goal.  If we (Lander team) are able to find a sponsor willing to provide the $300 MM(US) needed (or so), then even with funding assured, it would be quite challenging to build a launcher, build the probes and the landing package, and secure all the permits and approvals needed.

It is not yet impossible, but it is definitely a challenge.

The ExoMars folks have been working on their launch for many years.

(th)

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#240 2021-10-12 18:55:15

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,333

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

If there was a problem one way with emails I am wondering if it also happens in reverse as I am wondering if RobertDyck got all of the lander designs? Some of what we are working on also borders ITAR policies so we may be getting filtered...This also applies to paper coming and going as well.

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#241 2021-10-12 19:00:00

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For SpaceNut re #240

Good advice!  I can easily add a display of transmissions from the Portal to Lander team members.

The logical place for that display is in the NewMarsMember daily report.

It is a very small amount of extra work, and it would immediately insure that team members are aware of document flows.

Please note that the Portal does NOT have a copy of all correspondence, since some went to GW Johnson directly.

(th)

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#242 2021-10-13 08:12:59

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For Lander team members...

I have created a meeting space on a service called gather.town, and invited GW Johnson to test it on his "new" laptop.

It does not require installation of software, and just runs on a browser.

For SpaceNut ... I have not tested on Firefox but expect it to work well there.

If the test with GW Johnson is successful, I'll send invitations to all other team members.

Update at 14:30 local time.

I had sent an invitation to the new NewMars Gather.Town site, and was able to connect on a Linux system which does not have a camera.

Such a system can interact using the Chat feature, so a video camera is not necessary.

(th)

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#243 2021-10-14 08:21:32

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

Update on gather.town initiative ...

I am happy to report that GW Johnson was able to open gather.town on his laptop.

He reported his progress and hopefully he will take the next step toward entering the facility today.

For all ... I had forgotten that when you first visit gather.town, the software will offer to create an avatar for you.

You can accept the default or make changes.  When you are done making changes, click "Finish" and the avatar will be stored.

When the meeting space opens, you will find you can move the avatar with up and down arrow keys.

The gather.town system is designed to vary the strength of audio based upon proximity. 

If you wander away from a group, you will gradually hear them less and less.

There are meeting spaces for private conversations.

This facility is designed for huge corporations, and we are most definitely not that!

Still, there is lots of space to explore.

(th)

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#244 2021-10-14 08:23:43

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

Is there someone in the forum who can make a 32x32 icon for the gather.town meeting space?

I'd like something appropriate for a meeting space devoted to Mars, but 32x32 isn't much space to work with.

If you have something, send it to NewMarsMember * gmail.com

(th)

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#245 2021-10-14 16:45:30

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,621
Website

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

TH:

What is this avatar stuff for?  I really do not understand.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#246 2021-10-14 17:45:42

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For GW Johnson re #245

I'm going to guess (hoping) you are familiar with checkers, or even better, Chess!

The gather.town web site is a step up from the kind of "standard" video conference software you may have seen.

Zoom and Skype both work well for small groups of people. 

Gather.town provides a meeting space that allows for many attendees to be present.  Zoom and Skype are incapable of allowing that kind of interaction.

Each attendee is represented by a chess piece that can be maneuvered in the meeting space.

Pictures of the attendees are shown as well, and you can see the full screen of an attendee by clicking on the picture of that person.

I am pursuing this option because no software is needed, beyond a standard browser. 

(th)

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#247 2021-10-15 20:35:12

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

For all Lander Team members, and for all forum readers who may be following developments...

GW Johnson has successfully entered the NewMars workspace in gather.town for the first time.

My intention is to invite other Team members next week.

However, the highest priority for all of us is to (try to) catch the presentation by RobertDyck at the Mars 2021 Conference online.

His presentations will be given at 4 PM California time, and 5 PM California time.

If you are thinking of "tuning in", I recommend making sure you are registered (a) and (b) that you can get back in after you registered.

I found that the system seems to require more than one round of verification before it lets you in.

It could also be that it needs to set cookie on your computer, and since I've been testing from multiple computers, I may be having to set cookies on each one.

The process is simple enough ... I'm asked for a password, I don't have one so ask for a new one....

The login procedure sends me a password, i use that to login, and (hopefully) after that I can use that computer.

For Texas members, the times will be 1 hour later than the California time.

For East Coast members, the times will be 3 hours later than the California time.

For our numerous European members, the time will be "good grief!" hours later, but I'm hoping a few of you can attend.

(th)

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#248 2021-10-16 14:30:00

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,621
Website

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

Just to let the whole team know,  I have "draft 9" ready to update for date and addressee at a moment's notice,  plus I have pdf file versions of each of your resumes (and my own) ready to attach to it.  The data appendix for the letter concept proposal is included directly in that file.  It differs trivially from draft 8 that I think all of you already have.

You know,  in hindsight,  we should have presented a version of this at the Mars Society convention.  I simply never thought of that.  Until now,  when it is too late.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-10-16 14:30:45)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#249 2021-10-16 14:33:45

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,333

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

I did send the initial copy as a wake up and it may be time to draft up a letter to the steering team of the society.

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#250 2021-10-16 15:09:24

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,597

Re: Scouting Mars for Landing Sites

Once the conference is over, Mr. Burk will be extremely busy for a while making videos for YouTube.

Still, the proposal is polished enough so he might be willing to send it forward.

(th)

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