2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

kbd512 · 2021-09-05 22:51:35

SpaceNut,

Where were all the lawsuits against Governor Cuomo for lying to the federal government about COVID death rates, and putting COVID-infected patients back into the nursing homes they came from?

I guess Democrats only sue their political opponents. This is probably why you're not getting anywhere and never will. Play the game into perpetuity, but know ahead of time that nothing is ever "won" by doing so. It'd be comical to watch if everyone involved wasn't so nutty. All the meaningless posturing and theatrics is beyond ridiculous.

I noticed that when it came to the vaccines, there were no "my body, my choice" type Democrats defending people who choose not to get the vaccine. They'll march for the right to murder their own children while actively forcing everyone to take vaccines whenever they have the power to do so. This might be part of the reason why the Texas Heartbeat Bill still stands. You can't have it both ways. If you can force people to take vaccines, then you can also force them to deal with the consequences of having sex with someone they never wanted to have a child with as well. We're now coming full circle in the Democrats' circular logic chain, and they don't like it.

The Democrat demanding the COVID data from Governor DeSantis describes himself as a "guncle". Seriously, WTF is that supposed to mean?

Tell your boys to stop making up words that don't exist in the dictionary to describe themselves and learn to use the King's English.

GW Johnson · 2021-09-06 10:07:56

Prithee, wouldst thou truly wish all of us to speak the King's English?

GW

SpaceNut · 2021-09-06 13:01:52

Really thou'st jest of no remembrance of Cuomo conversing of error under forced law for Nursing home numbers?
To obey'th law that is unjust is asking for a rebuking.

The Emergency or Disaster Treatment Protection Act.

The act was created to give health care facilities and staff protection from liability in the early days of the COVID-19 New York crisis.
New York is not the only state to have legal immunity laws in place — nor is it the only state to have repealed such laws.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/andrew- … eaths.html
Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s administration has been accused of deliberately obscuring the full scope of nursing home deaths in New York. The F.B.I. is investigating.

Mr. Cuomo followed law and is now criticized for the states requirement that forced nursing homes to take back residents who had been hospitalized with Covid-19 once they recovered. Critics said the policy had increased the number of virus-related deaths among nursing home residents.

In the end he dow'th changed the law....

https://www.nursinghomeabusecenter.com/ … -repealed/
May 28, 2021
New York COVID-19 Nursing Home Lawsuit Protections Repealed

Repeal of a New York COVID-19 law that protected nursing homes from wrongdoing may open up more legal options to residents and their loved ones. The law limited the rights of nursing home residents, many of whom suffered needlessly or lost their lives during the pandemic. Reversal of the law may offer new hope for justice.

SpaceNut · 2021-09-13 17:46:56

Office for National Statistics data for England. Covid-related deaths in the country from 2 January to 2 July 2021,

AAOoxPY.img?h=799&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

kbd512 · 2021-09-13 18:44:47

GW,

As opposed to "OMG", "LOL", "ur so kewl", "sus", "sketch", "wut?"... Let me think about that. Well, that didn't take long. Yea. Ta!

GW Johnson · 2021-09-14 13:57:38

Forsooth, a true linguist! We are but few these days.

GW

kbd512 · 2021-09-14 20:28:32

GW,

I want people living in America to communicate with each other in a language that everyone else understands. That means the evil socialist clown from Florida would describe himself as a "gay uncle", if that's how he really wants to describe himself (and apparently it is), instead of a "guncle", which is a slang term that is not a word from the English language. I could give a crap about him being gay or anyone's uncle, since his bedroom activities are none of my business and most certainly none of the government's business. Why it was so important for him to point that out is baffling, since it's not a merit or demerit for holding elected office. I've never voted for someone based upon who they chose to sleep with, but that's because I'm sane and rational, whereas I'd wager that many of those who will vote for him are not.

Anyway... Let's increase mentions of "forsooth" in our common vernacular to a level that's at least commensurate with the 1950s, if only to surprise the people who track that sort of thing whilst creating feelings of indignation amongst those who should understand what that word means, but don't, because they're too busy making up language as they go along, rather than learning how to use the language they claim to speak and write.

See what I did there?

SpaceNut · 2021-09-14 20:34:26

Nice to hear a robo call in Spanish....for America not....

SpaceNut · 2021-09-28 22:27:55

The covid 19 virus seems to have a link to many having chronic fatigue symptoms or CFS which is a chronic condition which has not a cure.

Post-COVID Syndrome: What Should You Do If You Have Lingering COVID-19 Symptoms?

A Look at the Underlying Similarities

How COVID-19 Could Reveal the Secrets of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

self help for cfs
https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/hea … hting-tips

https://rawlsmd.com/health-articles/ove … e-syndrome

louis · 2021-09-29 04:47:56

Posty viral syndrome is well known in the literature but many hypochodriacs are inclined to exaggerate symptoms after infection. There's nothing new about this.

SpaceNut wrote:

The covid 19 virus seems to have a link to many having chronic fatigue symptoms or CFS which is a chronic condition which has not a cure.
Post-COVID Syndrome: What Should You Do If You Have Lingering COVID-19 Symptoms?
A Look at the Underlying Similarities
How COVID-19 Could Reveal the Secrets of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
self help for cfs
https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/hea … hting-tips
https://rawlsmd.com/health-articles/ove … e-syndrome

louis · 2021-09-29 07:49:05

Irresponsible anti-vax politicians - in 2020 - now reclassified as highly responsible pro-vax politicians in 2021. Wonder why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G25rfncVtp0

GW Johnson · 2021-09-29 11:56:29

Louis, why do you believe political propaganda from sources not vetted for truth in any way? Much of those video clips were clumsily altered (sound out of synch with picture). They were repeated and repeated to make them look like they were more than they really were. And they were quotes taken out of context, from a time before the election. It was almost 6 months later the vaccines finally became widely available under the emergency use authorization.

Why not go talk to real doctors and nurses. They will tell you the truth about SARS-CoV-2/Covid-19 and what the vaccines do, and how safe it is.

You should be aware that in the US there can be an emergency use authorization before all the data has been "saucered-and-blowed", but not until there is enough data understood to know it's gonna work. That process is now complete with the fully-approved Pfizer vaccine, and we expect completion in a matter of weeks for full approval of the Moderna and J&J shots. It may be different in the UK, but that's how we do it here in the US, and that has been working well for us, for a long time now.

Not to mention that these same vaccines are moving rapidly toward approval for use in children, where the plague is circulating unchecked in schools. Ask any teacher about that. It'll be the same process, emergency use authorization once most of the data are in and understood, then full approval once all of it is in and understood.

When you ask the real medical folks, and the real teachers, you will get the same stories you see on the evening TV news if you watch the real broadcast networks here in the US, not that cable crap. Which makes the notion of some cabal controlling all the "mainstream media" exactly the false conspiracy theory that it is.

Fox news is the well-known exception that has been promoting conspiracy theories as if they were true. Its founder Rupert Murdoch said quite plainly in public that it was entertainment for conservatives, not a factual news service. I heard him say it. Never believed anything from Fox ever again after I heard him say that.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-09-29 11:58:31)

louis · 2021-09-29 13:25:26

They are all accurate quotes. Yes they've been selected to make a point and why not? These scumbag politicians were using vaccine scepticism as a political tool in 2020 to prevent the vaccination programme getting under way before the election was over. The motivation as always was to "Take Down Trump". They never cared about the health of the American public one way or another. It's that simple. Now, the Dems are in power, they are outlawing vaccine scepticism and forcing people to have a medical procedure that can kill them.

As for your more general points, you've been had. You've been naive.

Take a look at what is happening in Israel, the most vaccinated nation on Earth of any size. The news is not good.

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News … spx/297051

Fox News is controlled opposition and was a big part of the election steal - calling Arizona for Biden after just a tiny fraction of votes were in. This was essential to persuade the American people the vote was going against Trump. We now know that at least 50,000 ballots counted in Arizona were duplicates (mostly) or otherwise extremely compromised.

GW Johnson wrote:

Louis, why do you believe political propaganda from sources not vetted for truth in any way? Much of those video clips were clumsily altered (sound out of synch with picture). They were repeated and repeated to make them look like they were more than they really were. And they were quotes taken out of context, from a time before the election. It was almost 6 months later the vaccines finally became widely available under the emergency use authorization.
Why not go talk to real doctors and nurses. They will tell you the truth about SARS-CoV-2/Covid-19 and what the vaccines do, and how safe it is.
You should be aware that in the US there can be an emergency use authorization before all the data has been "saucered-and-blowed", but not until there is enough data understood to know it's gonna work. That process is now complete with the fully-approved Pfizer vaccine, and we expect completion in a matter of weeks for full approval of the Moderna and J&J shots. It may be different in the UK, but that's how we do it here in the US, and that has been working well for us, for a long time now.
Not to mention that these same vaccines are moving rapidly toward approval for use in children, where the plague is circulating unchecked in schools. Ask any teacher about that. It'll be the same process, emergency use authorization once most of the data are in and understood, then full approval once all of it is in and understood.
When you ask the real medical folks, and the real teachers, you will get the same stories you see on the evening TV news if you watch the real broadcast networks here in the US, not that cable crap. Which makes the notion of some cabal controlling all the "mainstream media" exactly the false conspiracy theory that it is.
Fox news is the well-known exception that has been promoting conspiracy theories as if they were true. Its founder Rupert Murdoch said quite plainly in public that it was entertainment for conservatives, not a factual news service. I heard him say it. Never believed anything from Fox ever again after I heard him say that.
GW

SpaceNut · 2021-09-29 19:05:55

Trump ran to get vaccine just as soon as he felt really sick with the positive test but yet he was the one which doubted that we even needed a vaccine let alone anything as it was just the flu....

Thats a false story on the ballots which on recent recounts are not true...

oh by the way its a member here that is having the chronic fatigue condition not some cracker as you solved to...

GW Johnson · 2021-09-29 20:13:28

Spacenut:

My wife and I had it months before there were any vaccines available. Despite that, she tested negative. Yet our doctor also believes we had it, because of the "long Covid" symptoms we still suffer.

There's a whole spectrum of those, and every victim suffers a different subset. Ours are different from OF39's, but that really doesn't matter. We are still here, and mostly OK. And fully vaccinated, so serious illness from reinfection is not an issue.

Everybody still doesn't understand, this crap really is just a flu, but it is an incredibly damaging flu. Just like the 1918 flu that killed a (best estimated) 675,000 Americans in 25 months. This one has killed about that same number of Americans in about 20 months.

Be aware that the 1918 flu that was so deadly and damaging was PRECISELY the same H1N1 virus that caused the "swine flu" a few years ago that was not nearly so damaging. These things change with time, sometimes drastically.

Louis is just an afficionado of those conspiracy theories promoted by Trump and a majority of today's GOP that have killed so many people. He is also a prototypical "anti-vaxxer". Those beliefs are deadly, but are sincerely held by those who believe them, in preference to any real facts or data. It's a cult.

Since Louis is a citizen of the UK, I am mystified why he is such a Trump/GOP fan, or why he should care about US politics. But as I understand it, the far-right/fascist movement is widespread in the UK, Germany, and several other places in Europe. As bad or worse than here in the US.

Having said all that, I caution you to note that his first counterattack will be to accuse me and you (and all of us who do not believe like him) to be a cult ourselves. Another one of those far-right conspiracy theories says that all liberals are evil. And that there are no differences among them. With "liberal" SPECIFICALLY DEFINED as anyone who is NOT far-right.

Just how circular is that "reasoning"?

And yes, we have known for almost a year now that the "stolen election" and "massive election fraud" claims are total bullshit. The 60 court cases proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt almost half a year ago.

Yet far right conspiracy believers or promoters (including Trump) still hawk that bullshit, and their supporters still fervently believe it. The latest "audit" in Arizona only confirms this, even though it was conducted by far-right activists hired specifically to find the opposite of what they found. They could not. QED.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-09-29 20:29:12)

Oldfart1939 · 2021-09-29 20:48:29

To reply to those who want to impose their views and Vaccines on others. I could have had the vaccine long before I was diagnosed with Covid-19, a.k.a "Wuhan virus." As a professional chemist/biochemist who worked over 45 years in the fine chemicals industry--after taking a look at some of the "other ingredients," there are plenty of reasons to decline the kind invitation to pump various poisons into my body. Thimoserol, a Mercury derivative, is found in most vaccines. This is the same reason I don't ever get "my flu shots that are free."

The Swedes are doing things correctly. Develop Herd Immunity. My daughter and her husband didn't get the Vaccine, both have had the Wuhan Virus with no worse symptoms than a cold. Many health care professionals are reluctant to be Vaccinated, and businesses are being threatened with closure when the employees refuse to become guinea pigs or victims of the vaccine-pharmaceutical industry.

As usual, the mainstream media is going along with this massive and unConstitutional scheme.

My first symptoms were a headache and fever. I went to UC Health urgent care for diagnosis and was immediately transferred to the hospital by ambulance. (UC Health = University of Colorado Health system). Upon admission, my blood Oxygen level was lower than the 90% level for no supplemental Oxygen required. I was put in bed, on Oxygen at 2 liters a minute, given oral Dexamethasone, and another antiviral medication by IV. The next morning my Oxygen level was fine, and a stepwise reduction in gas flow was started, reducing the flow by 500 ml per minute at a time, and done with additional reductions at 8 hour intervals. By the next evening my Oxygenation was above 90 % without any supplemental being administered. I was allowed out of bed to sit up in a chair and read as well as taking my meals. I was maintained on 4 mg Dexamethasone per day and had the antiviral once a day by IV. On day 4, I was discharged from the hospital to go home with my oral medication and no necessary Oxygen.

I arrived at my home to find my tenant also had Covid-19, but wasn't very sick and he was under a 10 day quarantine. I was also quarantined an additional 5 days after returning home.

The lingering after effects were actually worse than the disease treated in the hospital. One practitioner diagnosed me as having viral pneumonia, but that was due to an incorrect interpretation of a chest X-ray.

Long term chronic fatigue and the loss of taste lingered for nearly 8 weeks. Other than the lingering fatigue, I suffered no lasting ill effects, and have 8 months of Natural Immunity ahead of me.

SpaceNut · 2021-09-29 22:46:29

via your description you had the late version from the end of 2019 before it became the more deadly form 3 months later

That was the old style vaccines

The Moderna vaccine also contains an acid preservative. The good news is that unlike the vaccines of the past, these shots do not use potentially toxic preservatives such as formaldehyde or thimerosal, a mercury compound.

The human body eliminates thimerosal easily. Thimerosal does not stay in the body a long time so it does not build up and reach harmful levels. When thimerosal enters the body, it breaks down to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate, which are readily eliminated. Thimerosal has been shown to be safe when used in vaccines.

Thimerosal is a vaccine additive, added to some vaccines to prevent germs (like bacteria and fungi) from growing in them.

A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose.

after recovering you can get re-infected after natural immunity wears off at 3 months or sooner

kbd512 · 2021-09-30 07:41:41

GW,

GW Johnson wrote:

Louis is just an afficionado of those conspiracy theories promoted by Trump and a majority of today's GOP that have killed so many people. He is also a prototypical "anti-vaxxer". Those beliefs are deadly, but are sincerely held by those who believe them, in preference to any real facts or data. It's a cult.

President Trump ordered the development of the vaccines and took the vaccine himself, as did his family members, so how were those actions "promoting a conspiracy theory" about vaccines? That requires a logical leap I can't make.

Vice President Kamala Harris stood up on stage and questioned the safety of the vaccines during the 2020 Democratic Primary Presidential Debates, because it was developed while President Trump was in office. I watched and listened to her spew her idiocy live, on national television. Please explain that one to the rest of us. Is she an undercover Trump / GOP conspiracy theorist / cult member? Are you really going to blame President Trump for something the current Democrat Vice President actually said on national television?

Has Louis done anything at all to prevent you or anyone else from getting a vaccine? If so, please explain.

Nobody from the GOP has prevented any of us from getting our vaccines, nor said one cross word to us about it, in contrast to the Democrats, who can't stop saying nasty things. Apart from my son, who the FDA deems too young to receive the vaccine, every other person in my family has the Pfizer vaccine- both doses, and we will get our booster if / when it's ever offered, even if we have to pay for it. Every person on my side of the family has both doses of the Pfizer vaccine, or the Moderna vaccine. There's too many on my wife's side to count, so no clue if absolutely all of them have the vaccine, but since so many of them talked about getting it, it's a pretty safe bet that most do. We're all Republicans, last time I checked. Oh, and BTW, I actually asked my daughter if she wanted the vaccine, explained it to her to the best of my ability, rather than force her to get it "for her own good", and she at least seemed to understand and was okay with it- no arguments, no fights, none of that. It's funny how calm and rational explanations work so much better than threats and orders, ain't it?

I've tried to convince the Republicans I know to get their vaccines if they haven't already, but not by calling them names or threatening them, since that so obviously (to someone who is not a rocket scientist) does not work. Some thought about it and did, some did not. It's their choice to make, not mine. From my commentary, I think you're pretty well aware of the fact that I think it's totally bonkers not to get as much protection from that Chinese bioweapon (intentional or unintentional, doesn't matter in the slightest) as you can get, but I've already made my opinion known and that's that. I've also been firmly against fear-mongering and hysteria over COVID, because that doesn't help anyone, either. If showing the math and explaining doesn't convince them, then I won't waste anymore of their or my time. I already did that, and that's all I can rationally and ethically do.

Why are you so concerned about unvaccinated people, anyway? Do you think the incessant belittling is going to change their opinions? How's that worked out so far? Do you think we should be rounding up everyone who isn't vaccinated and putting them into concentration camps?

If the vaccine works as claimed, then your family and my family should have nothing to be concerned about. If rolling the dice doesn't work out for people who choose not to get the vaccine, then too bad. Fair warning was given. If the vaccine doesn't work, then that grammar school playground bullying was all for nothing- and assures that they will never, ever listen to you or I again, even if something far worse comes along, and there's always something worse.

GW Johnson wrote:

Since Louis is a citizen of the UK, I am mystified why he is such a Trump/GOP fan, or why he should care about US politics. But as I understand it, the far-right/fascist movement is widespread in the UK, Germany, and several other places in Europe. As bad or worse than here in the US.

Perhaps Louis is not an anti-American subversive, like the Democrat politicians currently running our country into the ground?

Perhaps he's not a fan of the idea of a Dementia patient who can't formulate an English sentence half the time, having access to the largest fully functional nuclear arsenal on the planet?

Maybe he's not okay with America giving more weapons to the terrorists we've been fighting for the past 20 years than Russia or China ever did?

That's why I voted for President Trump. I don't want to live in the Orwellian police state dictatorship that the Democrat politicians endlessly attempt to push at every opportunity presented, and routinely fantasize about on TV. I don't care about mean tweets or rhetorical speeches which have zero actual effect on objective reality. President Trump made better than average economic decisions and started no new wars while he was in office, because he was disinterested in being a petty tyrant wasting his time murdering our people or other people so the MIC could make their next buck. Biden's merry band of goofballs wanted to prove what a tough guy he was by bombing our own people in Afghanistan, just before he abandoned thousands of our fellow Americans over there to the tender mercies of a marauding band of barbarians, and then lied about it and blamed President Trump for his actions. President Trump knows how to run a business, and America is a business. He's employed more people than anyone on this forum ever has and likely ever will. Biden couldn't run a lemonade stand if our lives depended upon it, and unfortunately for us, they do.

Apart from the regressive elements of the Democrat Party, where is this "far-right/fascist movement" you speak of?

I associate that term with socialist authoritarians, which best describes the Democrat Party as of late. Throwing the word "national" in front of the word "socialist", doesn't change the fact that both groups are communist subversives who get their own people killed- like all the Americans we left behind in Afghanistan for reasons neither you nor anyone else can begin to explain.

The ACLU estimates there are 5,000 to 10,000 actual members of neo nazi / kkk hate groups here in the US. COVID is obviously far more "widespread" than those groups are, here or anywhere else. I've lived in Texas for 40 years and have never once seen anyone flying / holding / possessing a nazi or kkk flag, except on TV and in war museums. Every year those goobers traipse through our Capitol, all 50 of them, and there are at least 10 times more people out there protesting them than they have ever mustered, at least during my lifetime.

My father believes some of this same nonsense about "racism everywhere", because he grew up with it, like you did. Then again, he was a Democrat before he was a Republican, so that explains it well enough. Virtually nobody my age or younger gives a tinker's damn about anybody's race, we never did, and we never will, no matter how much your generation tries to rub your mistakes or your parents' mistakes in our faces. Every Democrat I know can't shut up about race, but we're not going to relive their past, so they need to get over themselves before they make their past, their children's future. Racism is idiocy plain and simple. Let it die a natural death with your generation, and good riddance.

GW Johnson wrote:

Having said all that, I caution you to note that his first counterattack will be to accuse me and you (and all of us who do not believe like him) to be a cult ourselves. Another one of those far-right conspiracy theories says that all liberals are evil. And that there are no differences among them. With "liberal" SPECIFICALLY DEFINED as anyone who is NOT far-right.

You thought it, so it must be true, right? You think he's in a cult, he thinks you're in a cult... What if you're both correct? And what if you're both wrong? Does that mere possibility ever factor into your thought process?

GW Johnson wrote:

Just how circular is that "reasoning"?

You're both going in circles, but you're both headed to the same place- right down the drain.

GW Johnson wrote:

And yes, we have known for almost a year now that the "stolen election" and "massive election fraud" claims are total bullshit. The 60 court cases proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt almost half a year ago.

Like the claims of "Russian Collusion" from the Democrats while President Trump was in office?

Tell me about it. All those baseless election fraud lies must have been awful.

GW Johnson wrote:

Yet far right conspiracy believers or promoters (including Trump) still hawk that bullshit, and their supporters still fervently believe it. The latest "audit" in Arizona only confirms this, even though it was conducted by far-right activists hired specifically to find the opposite of what they found. They could not. QED.

Why not? The Democrats did the same thing for 4 straight years. President Trump was a Democrat his entire adult life, until he decided to run for President, then he was magically transformed into "Orange Hitler" because he ran as a Republican. He certainly looked pretty chummy with Hillary before he ran. Anyway, making claims without evidence seemed to work for the Democrats, so Republicans are just taking a page out of their playbook. Turnabout is fair play.

Whoever is actually calling the shots must be laughing their rear ends off while watching the rest of us go after each other while they rob us blind.

kbd512 · 2021-09-30 08:34:43

Here's some of that good old fashioned "diversity" and "unity" that Democrats think Americans lack:

'**** Joe Biden' chants break out in NYC by protesters angered by vaccine mandate

I see people peacefully protesting there of every skin color- since Democrats have such a wildly unhealthy obsession over skin pigmentation, probably every religion imaginable since it's New York City, and they all seem rather united, despite looking slightly different from each other. They sure don't seem to like President Biden very much, though. In his defense, President Biden did say he wanted to "unite the country". I think he's well on his way to achieving that goal. The leader of the group very clearly stated that he was totally fine with anyone else besides himself getting the vaccine if they wanted one.

From personal experience, no Republican has said one word to us about our decision to get vaccines, they never threatened to kick us out of the party, or to take our jobs away, or prevent anyone from paying homage to their sky wizard of preference, or prevent us from traveling, or any other similar petty tyrant nonsense. It's almost as if they respect each others' personal decisions and leave people alone who leave them alone, the way I would hope that every American would do. Democrats can feel free to steal that page from the Republican playbook anytime they want to, I won't say one word about it, and that's a promise.

louis · 2021-10-01 14:07:29

I can assure you GW that the UK mainstream media, with BBC in the lead, was totally, totally obsessed with Trump - in a bad way of course. They hated him and were as deranged as the Dems in wanting him out. Prior to that they were in love with Obama and, to a lesser extent Hillary. Events peculiar to the USA such as mass shootings, the unlawful killing by Police of petty criminal George Floyd, the Jan 6 "insurrection" (you know, the one in which the Police killed peaceful protestors doing no more than Biden himself did in his youth when he was in the Capitol protesting the Vietnam War in his youth) and American energy policy are all obsessively followed by the UK media.

So even if I wanted to, I can't ignore American politics.

Now the UK media are shadowing the American media's puzzling silence on the Airzona audit, aspects of the Afghanistan debacle, Millie's traitorous behaviour, Biden family crime operations (including payments from CCP front companies) and the rampant rise of totalitarian thought and practice in the USA.

Last edited by louis (2021-10-01 14:08:28)

louis · 2021-10-01 15:46:58

ONS can no longer be relied upon to provide objective data. It used to be well respected but since the Covid debacle began it's become another Big Pharma propaganda outlet. Please note:

1. The ONS data fails to make clear that the "unvaccinated" category is not just those unvaccinated by choice but includes the sickest and frailest people in our society, people literally at death's door. Doctors refuse to vaccinate them because they know to do so would be to kill them. (This would probably be true of most vaccines for such individuals since vaccine response is one that requires a lot of energetics on the part of the recipient. Very weak, often extremely aged people cannot cope with the energy requirements in their body.) This one factor itself could totally distort the analysis - this category may be a small proportion of the total population but it is a very large proportion of the number of people who die each year, So there is no point in comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated. You have to compare healthy unvaccinated people with healthy vaccinated people. What is the difference there? Is there any? In doing so you have to have a reasonable definition of healthy. I don't accept for instance that obese people who are not currently lilsted as having a co-morbidity are in any sense "healthy". We know a very large proportion of cases in non-elderly people are among obese people. Our UK PM who contracted a life-threatening case of Covid was obese (over 17 stone for a man of lower than average stature - he was probably a good 35% overweight ).

2. The chart you've reproduced from the Bill Gates propagandist outfit Statista is meaningless. All it is showing is the proportion of deaths attributed to Covid (correctly or otherwise) for each category. It's no more informative than showing athletes are more likely to die in sports-related accidents than non-athletes. It doesn't mean non-athletes are healthier than athletes.

Here is the ONS page that better shows what you are looking at.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation … d2july2021

However I would suggest there are huge problems with this data. Look at the Fig 1 data. What we see is a huge discrepancy in the early winter period when deaths were very high among the unvaccinated population. But of course in that period the majority were unvaccinated so we aren't get real differentiation. What we see later on is the death rates are converging. Even the ONS has to admit:

Vaccinations were being offered according to priority groups set out by the JCVI, therefore the characteristics of the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are changing over time, which limits the usefulness of comparing counts between the groups.

It sure does but it doesn't stop Gates-funded groups from misrepresenting the data.

Using age-standardised ASMR may "seem" fair but of course it isn't in the sense that everyone has to die and the older you are, the more likely you are to die. Put simply, the more strong healthy people getting vaccinated you can include in your vaccination count, the better for so called "vaccine efficacy" as far as stats go. That's how Big Pharma produces such wonderful results during trials and why the results soon start to decline in the real world. As already indicated unvaccinated people include a significant proportion of those very close to death who will NOT be vaccinated despite being very vulnerable to Covid.

BTW I can't understand why there are gaps in the lines for the vaccinated categories either. It's not clear what is meant by "fully vaccinated" in the green line - is that excluding deaths prior to 14 days after second shot? That was my understanding of full vaccination.

3. Can you point to any other vaccine where so many people have a vaccine and then die - yes die - of the very thing the vaccine is supposed to be protecting yourself against?!

4. By focussing on purely Covid deaths this sort of statistical exercise is by definition misleading. We want to know a vaccine is resulting in people leading longer and healthier lives, not simply that it is proving effective against just one disease ie if it is killing you in some other way then it is not a good vaccine (see 5 below for instance). And there is a further question as to whether the balance of risk and benefit is entirely different between healthy and unhealthy people. It might well be. But there are also far bigger health issues e.g. if you can wipe out flu, Covid and all other respiratory viruses with mRNA vaccines what will happen? Will the Earth's biome totally vacate human lungs for ever after. Does that seem likely? Or does it seem more likely that far more cunning pathogens will evolve and take up residence, possibly with a threat to the lives of billions of healthy and younger people. Old people can be very selfish.

5. The ONS is not going to publish anything that reflects badly on the official response to Covid .You need to open your eyes to what is actually happening:

https://dailysceptic.org/2021/10/01/dea … out-began/

6. This analysis also excludes the issue of the efficacy of natural immunity. Just about every scientific study has shown that if you have been infected with Covid then your natural immunity is way more protective against Covid infection than the Covid vaccine. By having only two categories - vaccinated v unvaccinated - a very unreal analysis follows. Really you want to know what happens to (a) healthy vaccinated people who had had Covid prior to vaccination (b) healthy vaccinated people who had not had Covid prior to vaccination (c) unhealthy vaccinated people (d) unhealthy vaccinated people who had not had Covid prior to vaccination (e) healthy unvaccinated people who had had Covid and (f) unhealthy vaccinated people who had not had Covid previously. In terms of "what happens" you need to look at all deaths as well as Covid deaths and you need to look at all illnesses as well. You then need to look at all those categories across age groups and other relevant demographics.

What the ONS are doing here is just pumping out pro-vaccine propaganda.

SpaceNut wrote:

Office for National Statistics data for England. Covid-related deaths in the country from 2 January to 2 July 2021,
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/ten … 60&o=f&l=f

SpaceNut · 2021-10-01 20:58:38

Its not until I get half way through you post that I find its not Oncology Nursing Society’s (ONS’s)....but you ment

1. possibly that was to give there dose to someone not so old as in selective panel mentality for whom shuold die and live.

2. so you figure that they do not know how to do statistics

3 miss reading the data as they are measuring effectiveness from being vacinated not of whom would die from getting the vaccine. The CDC doesn’t consider a person vaccinated until two weeks after the injection where it can be shown to be working. Since you have no been tested prior to the shot no one knows if you had been infected or not to be able to prove what you did die from. For those that have had a reaction suffering crippling side effects, after being injected well that is something to verify root cause.

You re looking for this More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.

Current global infections 233,908,734 with 4,786,203 deaths is 14.1149%

GW Johnson · 2021-10-02 13:47:14

Quotes from Louis post 920 above, each analyzed:

"Now the UK media are shadowing the American media's puzzling silence on the Airzona audit," -- I do not see any US media silence, what I saw was VERY widespread reporting that the persons hired to find fraud in Maricopa County Arizona could not find any fraud at all! In point of fact, the totals for Biden went up, and for Trump went down, by trivially small amounts. This was VERY WIDELY reported. Your source is lying to you. (And, it is spelled “Arizona”.)

"aspects of the Afghanistan debacle," -- which would have been a debacle no matter whether Bush, Obama, Trump, or Biden actually pulled out, precisely because none of the war colleges ever learned the lessons of Vietnam, so they don't teach them. Each of those 4 presidents was advised by the same class of top military officials. So very clearly, none of those advisers were ever taught the lessons of Vietnam.

Plus, your diatribe against me, Biden, and Democrats TOTALLY FAILS to acknowledge that the pullout agreement with the Taliban was agreed-to by Trump, not Biden! Your source is lying to you again, and I just gave you the specifics! Biden actually agreed with Trump that the US needed to get out. Biden merely delayed it from Trump's May 1 deadline to his August 31 deadline. BFD, and it didn't help with the inevitable outcome, did it? This was widely reported in the US.

"Millie's traitorous behaviour," -- it is spelled "Milley". General Milley acted to reduce the likelihood of an unjustified and unnecessary nuclear war breaking out between the US and China. What is so traitorous about that? Especially compared to Mr. Trump inciting (over many months, not just that morning !!!) the Jan 6 insurrection. Which is EXACTLY why he was impeached a second time!

"Traitorous" more aptly applies to McConnell's then-GOP-controlled-Senate failing to convict Trump. Some of them said in public that “yeah, he did it, but we still choose not to convict”. I heard them, live!

If the Dept. of Justice were to do it, they could still try Mr. Trump for "sedition" under the US Code. (Myself, I wish they would. We’d have a better choice available in 2024.)

"Biden family crime operations (including payments from CCP front companies)" -- I have seen absolutely ZERO about this Chinese-connection claim, because I do not care to watch or listen to far-right echo chambers and disinformation sites. Believing those sources violates Occam's Razor, as well as providing an object lesson in circular logic. Everyone, including you Louis, should know better than that.

"and the rampant rise of totalitarian thought and practice in the USA." -- those ideas and practices derive from far-right groups that exhibit what we usually term "fascist" characteristics. Trump's advisor Michael Flynn was one of these, being a Q-Anon believer who advocated for a military takeover of the US. Unfortunately, about 40% of Americans seem to fall in this category. I do not know how we are to fix this! If we don’t, our democracy will fail, that is clear.

The actual word you seek is "authoritarian", because "totalitarian" is too-associated with specific governments, whether far-right or far-left. We have associated "fascist" with "authoritarian" since the early 1920's (Hitler and Mussolini, who taught Hitler much of what he knew about power and control). It's not limited to the far-right, because the extreme far-left is also quite "authoritarian" (Lenin and the Bolsheviks in Russia, from before 1917).

In point of fact, ignoring the expressed ideologies (which are ALWAYS LIES), I see NO PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE between far-right and far-left authoritarians. They both want dictators supported by armies. I do not!

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-10-02 13:47:43)

louis · 2021-10-02 16:44:45

The Arizona election audit found a total of 34,448 duplicate ballots cast by 17,126 unique voters! But Maricopa County reported no duplicate ballots in its canvass report! The invalid duplicate ballot papers were included in the count.

Why the AZ Republicans haven't made more of this, I've no idea - but there is clearly an ongoing battle between RINO-Never Trumpers on the one hand and pro-Trump conservatives on the other in every state. But certainly this aspect of the audit findings has been totally ignored by mainstream media - you may in fact be unaware of it if you confine your viewing to CNN, MSNBC etc.

I think I use the word "totalitarian" advisedly when you have a situation where compulsory medication is being implemented, people are being denied employment for failing to adopt state-approved medicine, academics opposed to Woke ideology cannot operate in most universities, where political violence by Antifa goes unpunished, when you have peaceful protestors arrested for violent insurrection and imprisoned without trial, when the mainstream media operates like a chorus supporting Leftist narratives and ignoring or belittling those narratives that oppose Communism.

GW Johnson wrote:

Quotes from Louis post 920 above, each analyzed:
"Now the UK media are shadowing the American media's puzzling silence on the Airzona audit," -- I do not see any US media silence, what I saw was VERY widespread reporting that the persons hired to find fraud in Maricopa County Arizona could not find any fraud at all! In point of fact, the totals for Biden went up, and for Trump went down, by trivially small amounts. This was VERY WIDELY reported. Your source is lying to you. (And, it is spelled “Arizona”.)
"aspects of the Afghanistan debacle," -- which would have been a debacle no matter whether Bush, Obama, Trump, or Biden actually pulled out, precisely because none of the war colleges ever learned the lessons of Vietnam, so they don't teach them. Each of those 4 presidents was advised by the same class of top military officials. So very clearly, none of those advisers were ever taught the lessons of Vietnam.
Plus, your diatribe against me, Biden, and Democrats TOTALLY FAILS to acknowledge that the pullout agreement with the Taliban was agreed-to by Trump, not Biden! Your source is lying to you again, and I just gave you the specifics! Biden actually agreed with Trump that the US needed to get out. Biden merely delayed it from Trump's May 1 deadline to his August 31 deadline. BFD, and it didn't help with the inevitable outcome, did it? This was widely reported in the US.
"Millie's traitorous behaviour," -- it is spelled "Milley". General Milley acted to reduce the likelihood of an unjustified and unnecessary nuclear war breaking out between the US and China. What is so traitorous about that? Especially compared to Mr. Trump inciting (over many months, not just that morning !!!) the Jan 6 insurrection. Which is EXACTLY why he was impeached a second time!
"Traitorous" more aptly applies to McConnell's then-GOP-controlled-Senate failing to convict Trump. Some of them said in public that “yeah, he did it, but we still choose not to convict”. I heard them, live!
If the Dept. of Justice were to do it, they could still try Mr. Trump for "sedition" under the US Code. (Myself, I wish they would. We’d have a better choice available in 2024.)
"Biden family crime operations (including payments from CCP front companies)" -- I have seen absolutely ZERO about this Chinese-connection claim, because I do not care to watch or listen to far-right echo chambers and disinformation sites. Believing those sources violates Occam's Razor, as well as providing an object lesson in circular logic. Everyone, including you Louis, should know better than that.
"and the rampant rise of totalitarian thought and practice in the USA." -- those ideas and practices derive from far-right groups that exhibit what we usually term "fascist" characteristics. Trump's advisor Michael Flynn was one of these, being a Q-Anon believer who advocated for a military takeover of the US. Unfortunately, about 40% of Americans seem to fall in this category. I do not know how we are to fix this! If we don’t, our democracy will fail, that is clear.
The actual word you seek is "authoritarian", because "totalitarian" is too-associated with specific governments, whether far-right or far-left. We have associated "fascist" with "authoritarian" since the early 1920's (Hitler and Mussolini, who taught Hitler much of what he knew about power and control). It's not limited to the far-right, because the extreme far-left is also quite "authoritarian" (Lenin and the Bolsheviks in Russia, from before 1917).
In point of fact, ignoring the expressed ideologies (which are ALWAYS LIES), I see NO PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE between far-right and far-left authoritarians. They both want dictators supported by armies. I do not!
GW

kbd512 · 2021-10-02 18:38:08

Louis,

1. You're likewise assuming that all those who are not vaccinated are on death's doorstep. In general, most 20 to 40 year olds don't fall into that category.

2. I fail to see your point here. A pilot's more likely to die in an airplane crash than a non-pilot, but the data isn't relevant because it doesn't account for all other factors that kill pilots? If you're studying who is most likely to die in aviation related accidents, then that literally makes no sense, and quite frankly is pretty bizarre.

3. Such as Influenza? That virus mutates so fast, and so often, and there are so many strains, that protecting against it is a hit-or-miss proposition.

4. Well, the stats are about deaths involving COVID, so of course they focus on COVID, in much the same way that stats about firearms injuries / deaths don't indicate how many people who were shot or shooting others have IQs below room temperature, people who are on drugs, and people who are part of organized crime, such as gang members. Sure, if we exclude all those contributing factors then America's gun violence rates are little different from any other modern country, but that doesn't represent the real world, where there are idiots with guns, drunk and/or high people with guns, and criminals who commit violent crimes on behalf of very violent criminal organizations. In a perfect world, we would have an bottomless well of data to draw from to chase down every contributing factor. In the very messy real world we often don't know anything about patients except they came into the ER and were bleeding out from a gunshot wound or they were struggling to breathe due to COVID.

If someone had terminal lung cancer, but then someone shot them because they wanted the victim's wallet, do we chalk that kill up to cancer or Lead poisoning?

5. They're firing half the medical workers in New York because they won't take a silly vaccine that, while imperfect, seems to keep a hell of a lot more people out of the ER than "natural immunity".

Riddle me this, Batman- How do you get "natural immunity" to something that was cooked up in a bioweapons lab, something that never existed in nature?

From where I'm sitting, it looks like rolling the dice and hoping you're not in the group that gets seriously ill and dies on a ventilator.

6. They've been looking for factors that affect serious illness from COVID, six ways from Sunday. If it was really simple, then someone probably would've figured it out by now. It's more like, all the people who typically are worst affected by respiratory illnesses, are also worst affected by COVID, which is very unsurprising. However, then there are people who seemed to be the picture of good health, that were buried 2 weeks or less after contracting COVID. Ultimately, it's genetic, but again, not so simple to figure out.

Has it ever occurred to you that ONS may be tired of reading through death certificates and coroner's reports, and is looking for the simplest / cheapest / most effective way to reduce the number of gravestones that must be produced?

Is it even possible that that is the reason for their "propaganda"?

If your military published "propaganda" to leave a city that was about to be nuked, would you also question the efficacy of simply "leaving the area" to avoid being incinerated? Do you need a thoroughly researched study of all other factors contributing to incineration (to include launch buttons, solid rocket motors, guidance systems, people who are nutty enough to do something like that, and on and on), or is simply knowing that someone launched a nuke at the city you live in, enough of a good reason to leave?

You're up against either a purposeful or de-facto bioweapon that those geniuses in the medical establishment created to poke at "just to see what would happen". Their "child-like wonderment" (a synonym for stupidity, IMO) already killed a few million people. Kung-Flu, The Virus Continues and Continues and Continues, never existed in nature, which is why nobody can find any link to nature. A bat did not "F" a rat, that "F'd" a cat, that landed on a human and went "splat". Fauci gave money to these ding dongs, they created their little technological terror, then the "scientific community" circled the wagons to avoid giving credit where credit was due, because they want to continue to play with their deadly toys.

The Russians thought they were under attack from America after the jet airliner carrying pretty much every high ranking office in their Pacific Fleet crashed on takeoff near Moscow, because they're paranoid lunatics as well. After the investigation, the real reason for the crash was that the plane was so grossly overloaded with all the knick-knacks that the officers had purchased in Moscow, that the damn thing pitched up before it was truly ready to fly, similar to our 747 that crashed in Afghanistan on takeoff after the chains holding down one of the armored vehicles aboard broke loose and caused the plane to go so far outside the aft CG limit that neither the pilot nor the autopilot / autotrim systems could keep the wings level. The pilot couldn't / wouldn't tell the officers to ship their garbage back home via truck, so everyone of any note except for one Admiral who was permitted to visit his daughter for doing a good job during their last exercise, was killed. After ruling out that America was doing anything at all, much less planning an invasion, they immediately suspected that the surviving Admiral somehow caused the crash so he could take over the Pacific Fleet. Ambition is one thing, but killing everyone you worked with, who would also be required to help you run the Pacific Fleet if you did "take over"? That's the type of thinking of someone who is so paranoid that basic reasoning entirely escapes them.

That's what I think of your night terrors over vaccines and GW's night terrors over a life-long Democrat running for office as a Republican, and then winning, because people were so sick of the establishment that they all gave those clowns the flying middle finger for all the crap they've done to the American people. It's Big Pharma, it's Trump, it's this, it's that, it's the other... Yeah, sure, and it's still nonsense. If you don't want a vaccine, then don't take one.

Nothing short of dying of COVID would ever change your mind, and even that won't change the mind of someone who is truly stubborn. By then it's far too late, anyway. More likely, you'll simply blame someone or something else for such a predicament (your brain's "defense mechanism" against, "I thought it, so how could I possibly be wrong?"), so it doesn't matter anyway.

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