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This post is intended to record support activities related to the initiative by GW Johnson to develop a proposal for a Landing Site Probe
Todo: email drawings to SpaceNut <done>
Todo: email all materials to RobertDyck <done>
Todo: study materials <todo>
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Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-02 06:49:48)
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For SpaceNut re ID recovery ...
Verify runs for tonight's advance to 16,400 will start shortly.
Update at 9:24 local time ... all 120 Zero Post usernames were found in the Users table.
Starting Bans table check now...
All 120 candidates were found in the Bans table.
The first 100 will be turned over to WBA for update this evening.
Updae next day: The Internet was smooth last night ...
Text direct from Clipboard in Step: 34 Rogercerve
At Step: 42 Username did not match Stop At value
Post-Date Function Start: Reading Clipboard #4
PerformFunction: Valid ID: match in:
Registered: 2017-10-02 (181.129.33.218)
Last post: Never
Last visit: 2017-10-02 12:33:43
Posts: 0 - Show al
Text direct from Clipboard in Step: 54 TestID16400
Text direct from Clipboard in Step: 63 TestID16400@test.com
Completed Sequence for ID: 16400
Total Command Lines found: 112
Total input Lines in script: 341
Total input Lines in data: 921
Number of ID's processed: 100Starting Number: 16301
Last Number of Run: 16400
Summary for Web Automation Report for 09-03-2021 at 06:40:56
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:01:29
17 Date Exceptions were recorded.Total time of Processing: 02:29:39
Total time Program was Active: 09:19:57
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Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-03 04:52:17)
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For SpaceNut re ID Recovery
This post is reserved for notes on run from 16,401 to 16,500
Verify runs will start shortly.
*** Nice to see the contribution by RobertDyck to On Orbit fuel depot topic
The two recommendations (ullage vs bladder) are very much in play at this point, as the SpaceX engineers attempt to solve a problem never before attempted on any kind of scale, if attempted at all.
Ullage would seem by far the simpler to implement, at a cost of either propellant or ion throw mass.
A bladder on the scale of SpaceX Starship tanks would be a remarkable piece of engineering, and failure would mean return of the vessel to Earth.
Failure of the ullage thruster would mean a delay for repair or replacement of the thruster.
The possibility of failure of the ullage thruster could be addressed by keeping duplicate thrusters in orbit, or providing backup on the tanker itself.
It will definitely be interesting to see which of the two technologies wins the debate at SpaceX.
The rotating fuel depot idea of Calliban seems like a long shot at this point, but with a bit of clever engineering, the Large Ship design could be adapted for the purpose. Momentum management in such a system would be a significant challenge. Mass and rate of movement of masses would be balanced from docking of vessels to release after refueling procedures are complete.
Startrek writers seem to have never worried about such issues.
***
Update at 7:49 ... all 120 candidates with Zero Posts were found in the users table.
Bans Table check is next ...
Update at 13:39 .... all candidates were found in the Bans table.
The first 100 will be turned over to WBA for update this evening.
The Internet was smooth as glass last night!
Text direct from Clipboard in Step: 34 rozavetrovdk
Completed Sequence for ID: 16500
Total Command Lines found: 112
Total input Lines in script: 341
Total input Lines in data: 821Number of ID's processed: 100
Starting Number: 16401
Last Number of Run: 16500
Summary for Web Automation Report for 09-04-2021 at 07:58:11
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:01:30
14 Date Exceptions were recorded.Total time of Processing: 02:31:09
Total time Program was Active: 10:44:45
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Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-04 06:19:57)
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Rotating tanks would be placed into a shape of a W to allow for the fluid to go from the center tanks to empty to the outer units to receive the fuel. The tips of the V away from the center is the connection point for the fuel exchange when rotating.
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For SpaceNut re #1554 ... I think that all Admins should be able to demonstrate a basic skill of uploading an image of a hand drawn sketch. Void has demonstrated the ability to go far beyond a simple hand drawn sketch.
On the other hand, RobertDyck has demonstrated a wide range of ability, from a hand drawn sketch to a Blender render.
Because you have a Smart Phone, I expect you can upload an image of a hand drawn sketch. However, I feel a need to show that I can do what I'm calling for others to do. Accordingly, I'm planning to see if I can learn how to take a picture using my (new to me) LG smart phone, and ** then ** upload that image to imgur.com
Your words about a W shaped fuel depot simply don't translate into anything useful in my mind. I'm sure the image in your mind is an accurate representation of an exciting and useful concept. We need to somehow find a way to transfer a complex 3D shape in your mind (a neural network) to another person, using only the crude tools we have available for communication.
Update at 9:55 local time
OK ... Step 1 seems complete ...
I created a drawing showing a W (top view, side view and front view) with labels.
The LG front camera seems to have captured an image. The LG has Bluetooth, and I have a laptop with Bluetooth, so the next step will be to see if I can get the image transferred.
There is (no doubt) a way to deliver the image directly to imgur.com, but one thing at a time.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-04 07:57:44)
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For SpaceNut re ID Recovery ...
This post is reserved for updates preparing for tonight's run from 16,501 through 16,600.
Verify runs will start shortly ...
The monthly meeting of the North Houston chapter of the National Space Society will start in virtual mode at 2 PM Houston time. Per Google:
About 481,000 results (0.76 seconds)
Search Results
Local Time Conversion
2:00 PM Saturday, in Houston, TX is
7:00 PM Saturday, Coordinated Universal Time (UTC)
***
Update at 9:54
All 120 usernames with Zero Posts were found in the Users table.
On to the Bans check ...
Update at 10:53 local time ... 119 of the 120 usernames checked were found in the Bans table.
Those names will be used for tonight's Update.
Text direct from Clipboard in Step: 34 Samuelevild
Completed Sequence for ID: 16600
Total Command Lines found: 112
Total input Lines in script: 341
Total input Lines in data: 720
Number of ID's processed: 100Starting Number: 16501
Last Number of Run: 16600
Summary for Web Automation Report for 09-04-2021 at 21:46:29
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:01:29
16 Date Exceptions were recorded.Total time of Processing: 02:30:48
Total time Program was Active: 03:06:40
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-04 19:49:08)
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For SpaceNut re ID Recovery
This post is reserved for reports on preparation for tonight's planned run to 16,700.
Verify runs will start shortly
Update at 11:02 ... 120 usernames with Zero Posts were found in the Users Table.
On to Bans table check ...
Update at 12:29 local time ... All candidates were found in the Bans table.
The first 100 of these will be turned over to WBA for tonight's update to 16,700.
*** PS ... regarding recent correspondence on behalf of Landing Probe .... ** Well Played ** !!!
Update at 23:52 local time: WBA completed a run to 16,700 without a hiccup.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-05 21:53:23)
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For SpaceNut re ID Recovery
This post is reserved for reports on preparation for tonight's planned run to 16,800.
The Verify Users Table completed. All 120 Usernames with Zero Posts were found present and accounted for.
The Bans table run will start shortly.
Update at 14:52 local time ... All 120 candidates were found in the Bans table.
The first 100 of these will be turned over to WBA for tonight's run to 16,800.
***
Correspondence requests were completed in NewMars Portal.
To the best of my knowledge all requests have been processed. If there are any omissions or errors please let me know.
Text direct from Clipboard in Step: 34 shereelt18
Completed Sequence for ID: 16800
Total Command Lines found: 112
Total input Lines in script: 341
Total input Lines in data: 520
Number of ID's processed: 100Starting Number: 16701
Last Number of Run: 16800
Summary for Web Automation Report for 09-06-2021 at 23:17:24
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:01:29
9 Date Exceptions were recorded.Total time of Processing: 02:29:15
Total time Program was Active: 02:44:15
There are 419 usernames left in the current collection of Zero Posts ...
If all goes as it has, we have work through the week, and an opportunity to collect more candidates this weekend.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-06 21:20:39)
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For SpaceNut ... this post is reserved for updates on preparations for tonight's planned run to 16,900.
We have 419 usernames left to go in the current set of Zero Posts.
The verify users table run is in progress. Verify run completed - all 120 candidates are present and accounted for.
Update at 10:33 local time: The Bans Table check is in progress
Update at 12:23 local time The 120 usernames tested are all present in the Bans table.
The first 100 will be turned over to wBA for update this evening.
*** Special request for SpaceNut ... can you find the exact date of the Mars launch window in 2024 for landing in 2025? I spent a ridiculous amount of time looking and the closest I got was November of 2024, but that was just an estimate.
Thanks for a very ** nice ** set of graphs with exact dates plus travel times!
***
WBA had some hiccups last night but they weren't Internet related. Several usernames were reported as missing, but they had passed verification earlier in the day. I think there is a weakness in the verify script. It reports a username missing if a message arrives from FluxBB reporting that the username was not found after a search. However, there might be another reason the "missing message" does not appear. A better strategy would be to look for a signal that the username was found. Or perhaps an additional check to be sure a response occurred is needed.
In any case, WBA brought the count of TestID's up to 16,900, to tonight's run will try for 17,000.
We have just about 300 usernames left in the candidates pool.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-08 06:09:45)
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For SpaceNut re ID Recovery ... this post is reserved for updates on preparations for tonight's run to 17,000
Verify runs will start shortly. I'll look at the first script to see if it can be improved.
*** OK = my first report is of an oversight .... considering that this application was created from scratch, and it has been operating for months, it was disconcerting to find that a feature (to show captured clipboard data) was not working as intended or planned.
The feature was only needed to diagnose a failure, and since those have occurred infrequently, not noticing until now is probably not surprising.
However, it definitely reveals a page missing from the feature test procedure!
All that said, the 120 candidates are reported to be present in the Users table ** and ** in the Bans table.
The first 100 will be turned over to WBA for tonight's update. We are going for 17,000.
The missing feature code will be added today, if plans hold.
Update next day: The site of the incomplete feature is located. A work plan is in place.
Actual addition of the missing feature does not appear to be a significant challenge.
Text direct from Clipboard in Step: 34 stevejk2
Completed Sequence for ID: 17000
Total Command Lines found: 112
Total input Lines in script: 341
Total input Lines in data: 316
Number of ID's processed: 100Starting Number: 16901
Last Number of Run: 17000
Summary for Web Automation Report for 09-09-2021 at 08:27:23
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:01:29
11 Date Exceptions were recorded.Total time of Processing: 02:29:39
Total time Program was Active: 10:43:52
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-09 06:49:17)
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For SpaceNut re ID Recovery ...
This post is reserved for updates on preparations for tonight's planned run to 17,100
Verify steps will begin shortly.
Verify users table found a username that was present at one time, but is no longer discoverable.
The candidates list is down to 214 usernames.
The Bans table check will start shortly ...
*** For SpaceNut .... please take a look at the post by Mars_B4_Moon that appeared in My Hacienda today.
I'm sure there must be topics where death penalty and other unpleasant subjects are already present.
My Hacienda is intended to be a forward looking positive experience for everyone involved.
***
All 114 candidates with Zero Posts were found in the Bans table.
The first 100 of these will be turned over to WBA for tonight's run to 17,100.
Update at 20:27 local time ... thanks for moving the war post by Mars_B4_Moon ...
WBA is running now ... I was able to complete modifications to improve reporting of clipboard data.
That is primarily useful for diagnosing problems that might occur. Fortunately, the program has been running smoothly with only very rare hiccups.
*** It's pretty neat to have ** two ** serious initiatives under way, in addition to the long running Large Ship and the more recent 17 Expedition.
WBA had glassy smooth sailing this evening!
Text from Clipboard Row 1 in Step: 15 Swimmergus
Completed Sequence for ID: 17100
Total Command Lines found: 112
Total input Lines in script: 341
Total input Lines in data: 215
Number of ID's processed: 100Starting Number: 17001
Last Number of Run: 17100
Summary for Web Automation Report for 09-09-2021 at 22:35:14
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:01:29
13 Date Exceptions were recorded.Total time of Processing: 02:30:25
Total time Program was Active: 02:30:40
There are just 114 usernames left in that huge batch we've been working on.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-09 20:39:00)
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For SpaceNut re ID Recovery ....
This post is reserved for preparations for tonight's planned run to 17,214.
This run will exhaust the collection of several thousand usernames with Zero Posts that we started some months ago.
The verify users still in Users table run will start shortly, using the revised version of WBA able to correctly show saved Clipboard values.
*** Regarding Captain's Mast ....
I hope we never have to use this mechanism, but recent events suggest that a member with posting privileges may spray paint graffiti on the work of others. Another metaphor for recent events is a bully who walks up to a family building a sand castle on the beach and kicks it down. Everyone knows that the tide will wash the sand castle away, but no one (in the Universe where I live) has a right to kick down someone's sand castle.
Update at 11:11 local time ... 114 usernames were tested to see if they are in the Users table.
We had one false negative ... a username reported missing was found when entered manually.
This could be accounted for if the server is struggling to keep up with requests, and simply returns "not found". 30 seconds are allowed per username, so there should be enough time, but perhaps there is not enough time allowed for the specific step where the lookup fails.
This particular failure must be on the server side, because the "missing username" message only occurs if WBA detects a match on a string supplied by the server.
A more sophisticated script would (or rather) ** might ** be able to detect a difference between a return that is correct (there really is no user by that name) and one which is false (there really is such a user but the server didn't find it).
However, since the incidents are few, and a manual lookup is easy to do, it doesn't seem worth while to investigate further.
***
The Bans check is under way now ...
The Bans check found 113 of the 114 names on offer. That means one name must have passed your review, to live another day, The names in the Bans table will be turned over to WBA for tonight's update run.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-10 11:52:13)
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post 251 is the problem for one...as its missing a closing quote
post 215 has a simular problem
edit
here are 2 topics that are showing an error on the page, can any of you see or find what is causing them
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2039&p=6
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4918&p=5
I have my display set to 50 posts per page....
these were not fixed yet as I wanted to show how hard it is to find the defect
regarding capt mast issues as these can be also scope of topic issues that cause real discusion to get buried in pipe dream over runs that can not and are not practical to solve the today problems.
Pipe dreams in these more narrow work towards goal topics are counter productive as well.
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For SpaceNut re #1563 ...
Did you take care of those two problems? I can't tell which topic is involved.
***
The WBA run for tonight is about to start ... we're aiming to close out the collection of Zero Posts from months ago.
Update next day at 7:50 local time:
Completed Sequence for ID: 17213
This was a successful run for 113 usernames. The program stopped
when it encountered the safety line, as planned.Starting Sequence for ID: 17214
Operator requested STOP early, at count: 113Total Command Lines found: 112
Total input Lines in script: 341
Total input Lines in data: 114
Number of ID's processed: 113Starting Number: 17101
Last Number of Run: 18113 <<== not sure what this is
Summary for Web Automation Report for 09-11-2021 at 07:44:40
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:01:29
11 Date Exceptions were recorded.Total time of Processing: 02:48:59
Total time Program was Active: 10:04:48
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-11 05:56:55)
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For SpaceNut re ID recovery ...
We reached the near term high-water-mark of 17,113 User ID's recovered.
I've launched a new script to collect ID's with zero posts once again ... there are 368 pages, but many (if not most) of those are TestID's.
After the Zero Posts are collected I'll pass the names by the Bans table, to see how many you've had time to queue up for conversion.
We have 19,632 accounts in all. Of those, 17,213 are TestID's.
It will be interesting (to me at least) to see how many of the 2,419 accounts remaining are candidates for upgrade.
Update at 9:31 local time ... I found a number that may show what the potential recovery is: Last March there were 1753 posts > 0
The difference is 666, so that is the upper limit of accounts that might be considered for upgrade. Of those, a number have already been pardoned.
The high water mark cannot exceed 17,213 + 666 or 17,879. I'll be surprised if we reach 17,800, but we might.
In any case, we are closing in on the moment when we run out of spammer created accounts.
Update at 13:37 after collecting all User ID's with Zero Posts, including all TestID's.
Completed Sequence for ID: 368 <<== Each page of 50 ID's from query counts as an "ID"
Total Command Lines found: 20
Total input Lines in script: 72Number of ID's processed: 368
Starting Number: 1
Last Number of Run: 368
Summary for Web Automation Report for 09-11-2021 at 13:34:24
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:00:40Total time of Processing: 04:09:08
Total time Program was Active: 04:55:46
Update at 14:00 local time
Your hard work is showing up! I was expecting 666 candidates, but got 1157 after running the Zero Posts script and removing TestID's.
My guess is that you must have visited (on the order of) 500 ghost Post ID's, to have freed up so many for the next phase.
The Bans Table check is running now. The 1157 usernames from the Zero Posts run are being checked for membership in the Bans table.
It will be interesting (to me for sure) to see how many names end up as candidates.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-11 12:04:22)
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errors have been fixed in the topics referenced in post #1563
they each had an extra quote being put into the posts causing the shifting issue
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For SpaceNut re #1566
Glad to know you're spotting and correcting problems like that.
***
The Bans table lookup is in progress. This is an eight hour run, to confirm that the 1157 names discovered by the Zero Posts run are in the Bans table, or more accurately, to reveal those you've banned after your inspection/review process.
The run will finish at about 22:00 local time, and I'm thinking of beginning an update run from, 17,214-17,300.
The Bans table check found 1131 names in the bans table, of the 1157 collected with Zero Posts.
I'll start an update run shortly ... 17214-17300
***
In housekeeping so I'll update you on projects ...
Dr. Johnson's proposal is in Draft 4 and review by all team members (possible exception of RobertDyck who is in the wilds of Canada).
I'd like to have the proposal on it's way to recipients within a week or so at most.
Meanwhile, his Orbital Refueling document is packaged in it's own binder here. I am thinking of this work as suitable for submission to Analog as a Science Fact article. It is about the right size, it has innovative ideas that should appeal to the Analog audience, and it has very nice color illustrations, although (come to think of it) Analog normally prints in black and white, so I'll have to evaluate shades of gray rendering.
Dr. Johnson posted a few ideas about orbital refueling in the forum, but he went far beyond those posts in this document.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-11 20:07:38)
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For SpaceNut re ID Recovery ...
I intended to set up WBA to update ID's from 17,214 through 17,300. However, I used the calculator keypad to enter the numbers, and hit 6 instead of 3, so the run has been in progress for 9+ hours and is closing in on 17,600. No harm done, but it puts the output ahead of schedule by a day or so.
I'll pay more attention for the remainder of the runs. This is (probably) the last chance we'll have to do anything on a production line scale.
***
I've been thinking about how this tool might be adapted to address some of the defects you've reported, left over from an earlier web package. I'm thinking of the commands for color that are no longer supported, but which appear to cause FluxBB confusion.
I'd have to write a custom procedure to handle situations you specify for repair, but that's not a problem.
The Search tool may be able to find posts that contain strings you want corrected, and the posts could (presumably) be brought into memory one at a time, corrected, and then posted back. The "Edit" mode would be invoked. I'm assuming the Ctrl/A - Ctrl/C procedure to capture a given post inside the Edit display would work.
There's plenty of time to think about that.
HoHo! The run to 600 just ended!
Text direct from Clipboard in Step: 34 ThomasSmoxy
Completed Sequence for ID: 17600
Total Command Lines found: 112
Total input Lines in script: 341
Total input Lines in data: 1131
Number of ID's processed: 387Starting Number: 17214
Last Number of Run: 17600
Summary for Web Automation Report for 09-12-2021 at 08:17:25
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:01:31
149 Date Exceptions were recorded.Total time of Processing: 09:48:29
Total time Program was Active: 10:04:09
***
Forecast: We had 17,213 TestID's before the current series started. The current series has 1131 fully verified usernames.
The sum of those is 18,344. The total of member ID's is 19,632.
The difference is 1,288 ID's of ** real ** people. Some of those are banned, of course.
Still that is a respectable number of members if they were engaged. As it is, only a few folks are active, but they make up in enthusiasm for what they lack in numbers.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-12 06:50:18)
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Soon we will need to change the forums message to
For existing registered members who have lost your password ... If you remember the email address you used to register, you can request a recovery email at that address. If you no longer have the email available (as could happen over 20+ years) just write to "newmarsmember * gmail.com ". Your request will be forwarded to SpaceNut, who has the tools available to assist as needed.
as thats part of the out reach to get members back....
Of course we will continue to fix the older topics that have conversion issues and heep refining the overall intention of the forum for Mars society along the way.
Take a peak at this topics defect before I go and fix them 112 Gripes about the French - Those annoying French...
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For SpaceNut re #1569
OK... I captured Post #1 of the topic you are about to fix.
Go ahead and do the repair, and let me know so I can compare the before and after.
Thanks!
(th)
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post 1 repaired post 8 -10 are harder types to repair
will wait until you view them.
edit updated instruction
mouse click and hold while dragging accross a word will highlight a word in the post, then TAB key to move the edit link into view.
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For SpaceNut re #1571
The post repair of Post #1 is saved ... will now look for 8-10
Update a few minutes later ...
OhOh! A moderator may not have the needed powers.
The damaged posts do not offer Edit or Quote options.
I copied them, but don't appear to be able to change them.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-09-12 17:43:37)
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post 8 enter into the browser http://newmars.com/forums/edit.php?id=17733
post 9 is http://newmars.com/forums/edit.php?id=17734
post 10 is http://newmars.com/forums/edit.php?id=17738
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For SpaceNut .... apparently Moderators are denied access to the inner sanctum.
None of the links you provided worked.
Just FYI ... I can copy what the normal view sees, and I have done that.
It would appear that when a post is damaged beyond a certain point, a Moderator cannot work with it.
(th)
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good to know that this version of software has changed the rights as I can remember making the edits so long as it was not an administrator's post...it might be that the folder needs you assigned to it as a moderator...
either case these are now fixed.
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