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#101 2021-09-10 13:24:48

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 6,976

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Well, I will start with Spacenut's topic:
"Earth's Oceans Explored -but why not colonized".

I guess I will ask the question in turn:
"Mars Oceans may have existed, why not recreate them to habitate?"

This topic caused me to think it over.

If Mars had even 3, maybe even 2 times the pressure it has now, and the tilt were
changed in order that all parts of Mars on average received the same warming,
then their would be chances for ice covered seas.

In reality, I think that it is said that at most Mars had seas twice.  The first
time by normal manners, and the second time abnormal, where the seas then quickly
froze.

So, Mars has apparently not been very prone to have seas.  More prone to be glacial.

Seas if established on Mars would typically be shallow, and would most likely be ice
covered.  Typically, there would be a big one in the North Hemisphere, and a
smaller on in the Hallas basin.  A few other ones.

Shallow ice covered oceans would be ideal for humans to habitate.

So, by my definition the Artic Ocean comes closest to what could be habitated in
the Oceans on Earth.

------

I will compare the North Polar Sea of Earth, to a potential North Polar Sea on Mars.

The one for Mars will have to be created by someone, maybe humans and their robots.

Here might be some of the differences:

-Ice disruption for Earth, not so much for Mars.
The Earth has tides, and storms with strong winds which will tend to break up the
ice and move it about.  Not so much for Mars.

The movement of Ice is good for sea mammals on Earth, but would not be a good
place to habitate for humans for the same reason.

-The Ocean on Earth tends to be deep, not so for the sea to be created on Mars.

On Mars, the ocean generally shallow, perhaps 100 feet, would present almost 1 bar
pressure on its bottom where that is so.  It may even be possible if the ice and
water were clear, that light would penetrate all the way to the bottom, allowing
organisms that do photosynthesis to grow there.

Our oceans are mostly a cold dark abyss.  Not suitable for humans for the most part.

The Martian ocean would allow stable structures on top of the ice, under the ice,
in the water column, and on the ocean floor.

Further mining into the crust of Mars from a 100 foot deep ocean, would be a radiation
shielded, ~1 bar environment.  You could tunnel under the sea floor to make more
habitation space.  On our world, Earth, in most places this would not be easy, and
almost certainly profitable.

-----

The method humans could employ to build a Martian Ocean(s) would be to overcome
the planets heat rejection.  Actually lots of heat pours into Mars, but it mostly
does not rise to a temperature where significant melting can occur.

Two things to change that:
1) Double or more the atmospheric pressure to allow cold liquid water to exist.
2) Use machines to capture that energy, and melt ice, allowing an ice layer to
form, over the created sea(s).  In reality this melt process would be the cold side
of an energy producing heat engine method(s).

Once a ice cover with water was established, that in itself may be a heat collecting
device.

So, in my opinion, the difference between our Oceans, and Oceans created on Mars, is
you would like to extract things from Earth's oceans, and travel across them.
Our land has an atmosphere we can use for our metabolism  So, we want to stay near
the atmosphere.  On Earth this mostly is land.  The surface of the seas on Earth are
too unstable for most structures, and the Oceans are too deep.

On Mars, in its oceans that I think should be created, you have a partial 3 dimensional
environment.  Earth is much more 2 dimensional.

Just my opinion.

By the way, 100 feet = 30.48 meters.

So, yes we should habitate the Oceans....On Mars.

Done smile

Last edited by Void (2021-09-10 13:27:36)


Done.

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#102 2021-11-20 12:59:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,747

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Void has spark my interest in this topic once more and along has come this news article.

UN-backed floating city built to withstand Category 5 hurricanes is headed to South Korea95fcc3412d78f586a8535dc1831b111c

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#103 2021-11-21 09:59:19

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,747

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

A repost

tahanson43206 wrote:

For RobertDyck,

The article at the link below is about a book about soil.  I am hoping this post is a good fit in the debate you have set up here:

***

The article at the link below is about the value of soil for growing food. It includes the assertion that growing food in rich soil provides more nutrients than growing food in non-soil environments, but I suspect that may be more a reflection of deficiency in the practice than a fundamental deficiency in the method.

Never-the-less, I get the impression by a soil enthusiast would be worth considering by anyone serious about living off Earth.

It appears to be written for those who live or may live on Earth, but the principles should be transferable to other planets and locations.

If a member of NewMars decides to read this book, please post a synopsis.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/solutio … 29732.html

The solution to climate change? It could be right under your feet
Jamie Blackett
Sat, November 20, 2021 1:25 PM

Pulling a carrot from the earth - Alamy
This is a very timely book. Farmers are pondering regenerative agriculture, gardeners are discussing “no dig” and we are all worried about reaching carbon “net zero”. But few of us know what we are talking about, largely because the scientific community has spent more time studying the stars than the soil on which our survival depends. As Matthew Evans observes: “For me, soil seemed dull and insipid.” Yet, “Good soil isn’t just an abstract concept; it’s a thing of wonder … There are more living things in a teaspoon of healthy soil than there are humans on Earth.”

Most importantly, Evans explains how regenerative agriculture that draws carbon out of the atmosphere into the soil so that it is “like chocolate cake’” (through minimising soil disturbance and exposure, diverse cropping and grazing livestock) is our best hope of reversing climate change. He quotes Stéphane Le Foll’s “quatre pour mille” idea: that if all the world’s soils under human management were to increase in soil carbon by just four parts per 1,000 (0.4 per cent) annually, virtually the entire global increase in carbon emissions for each year could be offset. Suggestion for Mr and Mrs Thunberg: please pop a copy of Soil into Greta’s stocking this Christmas.

Soil is published by Murdoch Books at £14.99. To order your copy for £12.99 call 0844 871 1514 or visit the Telegraph Bookshop

(th)

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#104 2022-01-07 14:25:26

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Japan space tourist eyes Mariana Trench trip after ISS

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Japa … S_999.html

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#105 2022-01-08 19:37:44

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,747

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

I am assuming that a calm sea is required for this to work.
Embracing a Wetter Future, the Dutch Turn to Floating Homes

Cross-Section_AhlqvistAlmqvist.jpg

sort on stilts but then again inside a lagoon would work also

Maldives-Floating-City_Maldives-Floating-City.jpg

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#106 2022-02-23 19:12:23

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

On Earth the water temperature is relatively warm, perhaps undersea tourism and under water seafood and mineral export might become a thing there is also easy access to chemicals, minerals and water stuff that happens to be rare on other planets. Living in an Earth ship or submarine city might psychologically more comfortable than living on Mars, the Moon or Titan.

Japan Wants to Make Half Its Cargo Ships Autonomous by 2040
https://singularityhub.com/2022/02/23/j … s-by-2040/

What Is Jules Undersea Lodge?
https://diving-info.com/jules-undersea-lodge/

Aquarius Reef Base is an underwater habitat located 5.4 miles (9 kilometers) off Key Largo in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary. It is deployed on the ocean floor 62 feet (19 meters) below the surface and next to a deep coral reef named Conch Reef
http://aquarius.fiu.edu/

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#107 2022-03-07 08:01:19

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

NASA begins assembly of Europa Clipper
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA … r_999.html
When it's fully assembled, NASA's Europa Clipper will be as large as an SUV with solar arrays long enough to span a basketball court - all the better to help power the spacecraft during its journey to Jupiter's icy moon Europa. And just about every detail of the spacecraft will have been hand-crafted.



Newmars discussion thread on Europa
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1509

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#108 2022-04-10 04:10:28

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Jupiter’s Moon Europa Could Be Pulling Oxygen Down Below the Ice To Feed Life
https://scitechdaily.com/jupiters-moon- … feed-life/

This Robot Fish Uses “Robot Blood” To Power Itself For Lengthy Tasks

https://www.intelligentliving.co/robot- … bot-blood/

Researchers from Cornell University have created a robot fish that powers itself with “robot blood” – a liquid of stored energy that circulates throughout the robot the same way blood circulates through our bodies. The “robot blood” is the battery that powers the robot’s applications for sophisticated, long-duration tasks.

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#109 2022-04-20 05:37:52

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Potential For Shallow Liquid Water On Jupiter's Moon Europa, Study Suggests

https://www.independent.co.uk/space/jup … 60866.html

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#110 2022-04-26 14:08:52

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Blueprint for a floating city unveiled in Busan, South Korea. Plan to mitigate effects of climate change

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/26/worlds- … korea.html

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#111 2022-04-30 05:56:34

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

MIT Engineers Created a Portable Device that Zaps Seawater to Make Drinking Water
https://news.yahoo.com/mit-engineers-cr … fb&tsrc=fb

From seawater to drinking water, with the push of a button
https://techxplore.com/news/2022-04-sea … utton.html

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#112 2022-05-01 20:04:39

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,747

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

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#113 2022-05-07 07:52:54

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Europa’s Double Ridges: Implications for a Habitable Ocean

https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2022/04 … ble-ocean/

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#114 2022-05-19 13:50:21

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

A new underwater greenhouse could reveal the future of agriculture. It grows over 100 different fruits and vegetables.

https://interestingengineering.com/nemo … griculture

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#115 2022-05-21 15:49:57

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Twice the size of the "Titanic": 250m long fish farming ship begins trials in China. The company’s long-term ambition is to build an open sea aquaculture fleet of 50 ships with an annual output of more than 200,000 tonnes of fish by 2035. (salmonbusiness.com)

https://salmonbusiness.com/twice-the-si … -in-china/

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#116 2022-06-04 12:44:54

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Japan tested a giant turbine that generates electricity using deep ocean currents
https://www.thesciverse.com/2022/06/jap … -that.html

5 Space Exploration Imperatives To Hit By 2030
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedormi … t-by-2030/

Finding the Limits of Ocean Worlds
https://www.seti.org/finding-limits-ocean-worlds

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#117 2022-06-07 06:50:47

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

A huge Atlantic ocean current is slowing down. If it collapses, La Niña could become the norm for Australia

https://theconversation.com/a-huge-atla … lia-184254

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#118 2022-06-08 04:55:26

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Autonomous cargo ship completes first ever transoceanic voyage

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/auto … 94991.html

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#119 2022-06-13 06:57:49

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Scientists discover viruses that secretly rule the world's oceans

https://www.thesciverse.com/2022/06/sci … -that.html

Thousands of unknown viruses identified recently in the world's seas may have a significant impact on ecosystems, according to experts, in part through "reprogramming" the hosts they infect.

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#120 2022-06-27 19:12:14

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

3D Printed Reefs deployed at wind farm to test hypothesis that offshore wind increases fish life

https://www.offshorewind.biz/2022/06/27 … wind-farm/

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#121 2022-07-28 04:31:36

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Rare and bizarre tentacle-trailing sea creature caught on video, expedition scientist’s 'mind is blown'
https://www.livescience.com/coral-sea-pen-pacific-ocean
New footage showing a giant, peculiar-looking tentacled sea creature floating languidly in the depths of the Pacific Ocean

Steve Auscavitch, the expedition’s lead researcher and a deep-sea biologist and post-doctoral scholar at Boston University, described the sighting as "fascinating."

"From time to time, we come across something that we never expected to see, and those are often the most powerful observations," he told Live Science.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-28 04:33:46)

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#122 2022-07-30 11:37:18

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

375-Year-Old Shipwreck Found at Bottom of German River

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2022/07/375- … man-river/

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#123 2022-08-27 14:31:47

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Astronomers Find a Waterworld Planet With Deep Oceans in the Habitable Zone

https://www.universetoday.com/157306/as … able-zone/

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#124 2022-09-06 04:44:30

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Alan Stern Looks Back At His Downward Spaceflight

https://nasawatch.com/exploration/alan- … aceflight/

Alan Stern: “Exploration like this, and exploration of all kinds – from the arctic to the Antarctic, from deep sea to the highest mountains, from our Earth to the Moon and planets – is something uniquely human. No other species on Earth explores — exploration is truly a defining trait of our species.”

QUOTE

Earlier posts

‘Yesterday our mother ship ship Horizon Arctic finished the journey to carry us and our OceanGate Expeditions submersible Titan along the Grand Banks to port in St. John’s Newfoundland after exploring the RMS Titanic. As the ship pulled into port my fellow Titanic explorers watched from railings above the ship’s bridge. I said to one of my colleagues, Dylan Taylor, “Did we really just explore the Titanic? It feels like a dream.” He instantly replied, “Funny, I feel exactly the same way.”

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#125 2022-09-22 05:10:21

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

NASA Wants to use Small Robots to Explore Lakes and Oceans on Other Planets and Moons

https://science-news.co/nasa-wants-to-u … and-moons/

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