CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

EdwardHeisler · 2021-07-16 16:13:59

As the Delta variant fuels rising U.S. cases, the C.D.C. director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/as-th … d=msedgntp

Follow the advice of health care workers and scientists, not quacks who falsely pretend to have medical skills or knowledge.

tahanson43206 · 2021-07-16 17:21:14

For Edward Heisler re new topic....

I am recommending to SpaceNut that this new topic and all similar new topics be deleted from the forum.

The Chat topic is provided as a courtesy to members who want to discuss off-topic items.

To create a topic deliberately to provoke controversy is not helpful to the mission of the forum.

Louis ... please do ** not ** reply to this provocation.

(th)

louis · 2021-07-16 18:59:42

Do some research instead of spreading needless fear.

The experience from Israel - one of the most vaccinated countries on earth - totally contradicts your facile claims.

"Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection"

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News … spx/309762

Big Pharma is destroying people's health. If you're not obese, old or suffering from co-morbidities like diabetes, you're at no risk from this virus, but you are risk from the vaccine.

EdwardHeisler wrote:

As the Delta variant fuels rising U.S. cases, the C.D.C. director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/as-th … d=msedgntp
Follow the advice of health care workers and scientists, not quacks who falsely pretend to have medical skills or knowledge.

EdwardHeisler · 2021-07-16 22:08:35

"To create a topic deliberately to provoke controversy is not helpful to the mission of the forum.'

What controversy? Are you disputing the CDC and Surgeon General of the United States??!!!

You must have a wall full of medical degrees and credentials to boldly challenge the CDC and our nations Surgeon General!

Please list your degrees. Thank you.

I have nothing more to say on this. The CDC and Surgeon General have said enough for anyone who follows the science.

louis · 2021-07-17 09:06:31

Pathetic. Soon as you are faced with well verified information that contradicts your unsupported claims, you're off. The appeal to authority is meaningless.

EdwardHeisler wrote:

"To create a topic deliberately to provoke controversy is not helpful to the mission of the forum.'
What controversy? Are you disputing the CDC and Surgeon General of the United States??!!!
You must have a wall full of medical degrees and credentials to boldly challenge the CDC and our nations Surgeon General!
Please list your degrees. Thank you.
I have nothing more to say on this. The CDC and Surgeon General have said enough for anyone who follows the science.

SpaceNut · 2021-07-17 09:27:15

Not one of the 5 or more covid vaccines are the same chemically, not getting the same effectiveness per shot, not stored the same ect so lumping them for results continues to blur the expectation of it being a cure, a prevention and or lesser of its conditions damage to those getting the virus.

The media statements that those whom had been vaccinated and catch covid have not given the complete picture understating which shot type, what strain have they gotten ect....All of this puts the shot taking back into the not for me category even though getting the shot is breaking the infection rate cycle.

The media is also stating that the unvaccinated are why covid is still spreading is another half truth as we do not have the information for whom is a carrier other than they are asymptomatic not testing is the key to this identification....

I am reminded of the cdc's wearing of masks if you did not get the vaccines and those that have not response is that I am not wearing them even if I have not gotten it. The variants have put the mask wearing back on the list to do either way since others would rather lie about getting the shot...

louis · 2021-07-17 16:09:45

Latest stats from Israel:

https://twitter.com/RanIsraeli/status/1 … 80/photo/2

This shows that among the most vulnerable group (the over 50s) the case rate (per million) is higher (not lower!) among the vaccinated, compared with the unvaccinated.

Remember, Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries on Earth and still they haven't got the pandemic under anything resembling control.

Whole populace mass vaccination is a crazily misguided policy that ends up killing perfectly healthy people.

SpaceNut · 2021-07-17 18:16:22

We talked about the Israeli vaccines in the 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases page 16 and its one where what vaccine was the question of effectiveness and it was a low as 70% to which if everyone got that shot then more than 30% would catch it again but odds of dieing was to be less than the 3% for those that caught it as you would have a slight immunity to the virus.

EdwardHeisler · 2021-07-17 18:17:14

Are you disputing the CDC and Surgeon General of the United States??

If so, what are your medical credentials?

SpaceNut · 2021-07-17 18:57:05

EdwardHeisler, If the rate of catching the virus covid "D" is the same as the other variants then there is no question since we would be comparing the unvaccinated of the first version to the new variant which means that we will see just as many die as before or slightly higher if the truth is that the vaccine does have an effectiveness to the new D variant that is lower.

We also know that we can catch the virus for a second time as the bodies immunity is not very strong if its not been long enough time between cycles.
That said a "D" variant will most likely have the same conditions occurring such that a person can catch it again...
There is also now being seen that we can have more than one version of the virus infecting a body from those that have already died from that being detected.

Then again the politics of those from former-surgeon-general-says-cdc-guidance-on-masks-premature-and-wrong saying you do not need masks. When masks especially inside would slow the spread of the variant.

louis · 2021-07-18 07:13:58

You should study some philosophy. The argument from authority (referencing someone's title as support for their argument) is a fallacious argument ie gives no support.

As far as I know the CDC and Surgeon General haven't contradicted the data coming out of Israel. So what to make of that data? That vaccination is a stunning success? It's the same with lockdowns and mask mandates. States like Florida and Texas that have junked them are doing no worse and in better cases better than states that have kept them.

You're indulging in emotive arguments that assumes your premises are correct when they are not.

EdwardHeisler wrote:

Are you disputing the CDC and Surgeon General of the United States??
If so, what are your medical credentials?

SpaceNut · 2021-07-18 13:37:12

current vaccinated numbers for the US

2nd dose administered
148,379,250 (44.7%)
1st dose administered
186,038,501 (56.0%)
Total population
331,996,199

US Confirmed covid cases
34,052,303
Deaths
613,092

louis · 2021-07-18 13:46:31

More data. This time from Malta.

https://lockdownsceptics.org/wp-content … .0485.jpeg

Malta has high rates of vaccination. Even before the recent huge rise in Covid cases, 71% were double-vaccinated and 71% had at least one shot. But still they are seeing this huge rise - why?

Why should any healthy person have the vaccine? If they catch Covid they will recover well and be immune thereafter. The immunity we get from our natural system is far superior to that offered by the vaccine. This is gradually becoming apparent from the stats as the number of people fully vaccinated becomes the majority of people. Furthermore by not having the vaccine the avoid the risk of early death or serious injury from something like blood clots or heart disease, or a range of neurological disorders.

SpaceNut · 2021-07-18 14:48:48

Malta 2020 population is estimated at 441,543 people at mid year according to UN data.

Vaccine doses administered 721,415
Fully vaccinated 88.31%
Received at least one dose 94.73%

Total
confirmed cases 32,470
Recovered cases 30,218
Active cases 1,832
Fatal cases 420

finally a place with accurate numbers

So the question is what shot have they taken as it appears we should be in the 90% for effectiveness.
That would mean over 36,ooo could get infected again plus break throughs and those that did not get a shot at all hen add in the reinfection rate for a second time getting the virus and we are up over 40,000.

https://ncrc.jhsph.edu/research/reinfec … ort-study/

Reinfection was determined by the rate of second infection among all previously diagnosed patients tested 4 to 5 months after initial test, 6 to 7 months after, and 8 or more months after. Protection due to prior infection was defined as (1 – the ratio of infection among initially positive vs. initially negative patients). Repeated tests within 90 days of an initial test were ignored. Patients who tested negative at their initial test and then later positive within 90 days were excluded from the analysis. Symptoms were recorded by the ordering provider at the time of test order.

https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/stud … re-illness

louis · 2021-07-18 16:34:12

More data!

It's not just that the vaccinated are getting Covid but with milder symptoms, as the pro-vax propaganda would have you believe.

The latest data from Israel shows that the vast majority of people with severe Covid infection are either fully or part vaccinated and that people who have been vaccinated are the biggest group among those with severe Covid.

https://twitter.com/BenMarten/status/14 … 9775711233

This chart of course doesn't show the people who have been made ill by the vaccine, which is another key factor in judging vaccine performance.

The truth is the Pfizer vaccine is, along with the other Covid vaccines, just about the worse vaccine ever in the last 50 years in terms of adverse reactions.

Last edited by louis (2021-07-18 16:57:48)

SpaceNut · 2021-07-18 19:56:01

Well he got it before and it nearly killed him as U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson will self-isolate after being exposed to the novel Coronavirus at a meeting with his Health Secretary Sajid Javid, who announced on Saturday that he had tested positive for the virus.
They will self isolate

louis · 2021-07-18 20:12:22

He was obsese, He's not that tall - seems to be around 5 feet 8 inches. Not a good idea to be carrying 17 stione plus at that height!

SpaceNut wrote:

Well he got it before and it nearly killed him as U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson will self-isolate after being exposed to the novel Coronavirus at a meeting with his Health Secretary Sajid Javid, who announced on Saturday that he had tested positive for the virus.
They will self isolate

SpaceNut · 2021-07-21 21:38:25

With Covid-19 cases rising in all 50 states, health officials say it's clear that unvaccinated people are both driving the increase in cases and are most at risk.

'I'm sorry, but it's too late' - unvaccinated patients beg for shot; new infections nearly triple in two weeks

An Alabama physician glumly says she is making "a lot of progress" in encouraging people to vaccinate – as she struggles to keep them alive.
Dr. Brytney Cobia, a hospitalist at Grandview Medical Center in Birmingham, wrote in a recent Facebook post she is treating a lot of young, otherwise healthy people for serious coronavirus infections.
"One of the last things they do before they're intubated is beg me for the vaccine," she wrote. "I hold their hand and tell them that I'm sorry, but it's too late."
In her post, Cobia wrote that when a patient dies, she hugs their family members and urges them to get vaccinated. She said they cry and tell her they thought the pandemic was a "hoax," or "political," or targeting some other age group or skin color.

Sean Hannity, who downplayed Covid, urges viewers to 'take it seriously'

Biden says US has 'a way to go' on coronavirus

Biden's comments about the pandemic came the same day as news that a White House staffer tested positive for the virus despite being fully vaccinated, a reminder of the continuing threat of the pandemic.

This is why there is confusion with getting the vaccines and why you can still get the virus even after you do...

Calliban · 2021-07-23 06:58:05

Riots in Italy, following introduction of 'health passports'.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/pro … s-revealed

I feel so much safer, knowing that governments everywhere are clamping down on every aspect of human freedom. I am so happy knowing that these people have given themselves unlimited power to spy on me through Internet and put spywear on my device. I am sure they only have our best interests at heart. I am sure that the rush to punish every human vermin that refuses vaccination, has nothing to do with political pressure from the pharmaceutical industry. I am sure that governments are full of responsible, open minded people and that all of the measures they have imposed on us were carefully arrived at following risk assessment and cost-benefit analysis. Did I mention that I also believe in fairies, pixies, goblins, flying pigs, racial equality and a wealthy, materially abundant future based on expensive but too cheap to meter renewable energy? I also completely reject the insane and racist allegation that the corona virus was a half-baked Chinese bioweapon that leaked out of a Chinese lab. We definitely need to cover up that investigation, lest the truth is politically useful to those evil Trump supporting racists.

Last edited by Calliban (2021-07-23 07:00:53)

kbd512 · 2021-07-23 13:59:47

In the interest of promoting freedom of speech and vigorous debate, which I highly prize as being necessary to maintaining a free society, I am keeping these COVID-related discussion threads open. However, if the conversation does not remain civil in nature or people start dispensing medical advice without a license to practice medicine, then it will be shut down. Let's ease up on the rhetoric and formulate well-reasoned arguments to make our points, and make appeals to available empirical evidence rather than authority figures.

Calliban · 2021-07-30 15:35:24

Some 74% of COVID cases in Massachusetts now occur within the vaccinated.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/74-p … people-cdc

SpaceNut · 2021-07-30 19:57:57

Seems not all of the vaccines were made with the quality control which would produce the effectiveness which was stated by the manufacturers with the Johnson and Johnson being the lowest for single shots was at or near that rate....
Next would be is to get a better picture of those hospitalized versus those that have which particular shot.
Continuing for data one would want to know if the vaccinated versus not have a simular of different death rate and to compare the current strain to the previous.

louis · 2021-07-31 17:36:48

Focussing on vaccines and vaccine efficacy is playing their game.

The unprecedented whole population vaccination programme is not about vaccination or public health. If these bad actors were really interested in public health wouldn’t they be putting some of their vast billions into cheap and effective Covid treatments? But they aren’t!

What they are interested in is getting 99% of the population signed up to Digital ID. Not so the state knows who you are when you do something (they know that already) but so the state can control you, the individual.

SpaceNut · 2021-07-31 20:06:24

The initial covid 19 infects should after 90 days reinfection could occur as natural immunity would fall off. It seems that the body does not hold onto that immunity even with a vaccine being taken rather than getting the virus. Pfizer says immunity can drop to 83% within four months in people who got its COVID-19 shot, further bolstering the company case for a booster
The fear was bad enough for dieing once catching the virus that some with this new varainat were still not wanting to get the shot for a variety of reasons including being a traitor to party. Now they are saying
‘Don’t let anybody know’: Missouri doctor says some ask for anonymity when vaccinated

of course the death rate for the vacinnated is Less than 0.004% of people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 experienced a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization and less than 0.001% died from the disease, according to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. with the group still being hit hardest with the breakthrough cases -- about 74% -- occurred among adults 65 or older which is the same group as before.

death rate in 2020 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc … reads.html

clark · 2021-07-31 23:21:26

None of you know better than the scientists that study this. none of you know better than the physicians that live this. none of you know better than the infectious disease experts who have spent a lifetime in population health policy. You cretins with your poor education, your limited intellect, and your haphazard approach to basic logic, you represent everything that shows the Mars Society is a mistake.

A colony on Mars with just one of you is enough reason to point out why the idea is untenable. You are jokes. Sad, sad jokes.

Those with Covid vaccination die at a lower, statistically significant , rate than those that are unvaccinated. Those with covid vaccination, are hospitalized less than those without. Those with covid vaccination are less infectious, based on statistically significant results, than those that are not vaccinated. You have to be a god dam moron to not see any of this with clarity.

Oh, hey mars, where we can all live in an enclosed space, but everyone can kind of just feel themselves out on if they want to get the vaccine for a highly contagious disease. Pathetic are the replies that decide to argue with me.

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#1 2021-07-16 16:13:59

CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#2 2021-07-16 17:21:14

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#3 2021-07-16 18:59:42

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#4 2021-07-16 22:08:35

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#5 2021-07-17 09:06:31

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#6 2021-07-17 09:27:15

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#7 2021-07-17 16:09:45

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#8 2021-07-17 18:16:22

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#9 2021-07-17 18:17:14

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#10 2021-07-17 18:57:05

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#11 2021-07-18 07:13:58

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#12 2021-07-18 13:37:12

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#13 2021-07-18 13:46:31

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#14 2021-07-18 14:48:48

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#15 2021-07-18 16:34:12

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#16 2021-07-18 19:56:01

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#17 2021-07-18 20:12:22

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#18 2021-07-21 21:38:25

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#19 2021-07-23 06:58:05

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#20 2021-07-23 13:59:47

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#21 2021-07-30 15:35:24

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#22 2021-07-30 19:57:57

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#23 2021-07-31 17:36:48

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#24 2021-07-31 20:06:24

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

#25 2021-07-31 23:21:26

Re: CDC director warns of a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated.’

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