"Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

Palomar · 2003-08-18 09:42:15

*Did anyone else watch "Nefertiti Resurrected" during its world premiere last evening? I missed the first 20 minutes of it, but WOW. It is an incredible documentary, and showcases very well Dr. Joanne Fletcher's desire to determine who "Lady X" was.

If you missed it and have even a passing interest in ancient Egypt, try to catch it when it's on again.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-08-18 15:45:21

I wish I had cable, I probably would've made time for it. I love Egyptology.

Shaun Barrett · 2003-08-18 20:04:24

Thanks for the tip-off, Cindy!
I'll watch for the Nefertiti program now you've given us the 'heads up'.
I'm with both you and Josh. I find Egyptology fascinating. When I was 10 years old, I had the good fortune to visit the Giza pyramids and the Museum of Antiquities in Cairo. We only had a limited time at the museum because of the tour bus schedule but, according to my mother, I had to be almost dragged out of the place by my heels! I just couldn't get enough of it.
Although I was very young, I'll never forget the Great Pyramid. I can still smell the stale air in the King's Chamber to this day, and 'feel' the almost oppressive mass of stone above our heads. It's a surreal place to be; almost magical, or like the atmosphere of a huge cathedral only more so!

Palomar · 2003-08-18 21:09:18

Shaun: "Thanks for the tip-off, Cindy!
I'll watch for the Nefertiti program now you've given us the 'heads up'.
I'm with both you and Josh. I find Egyptology fascinating. When I was 10 years old, I had the good fortune to visit the Giza pyramids and the Museum of Antiquities in Cairo."

*Ooooooo. I envy you! I would make a wisecrack about "the Pyramids predate you?!?"...but nah...

Shaun: "We only had a limited time at the museum because of the tour bus schedule but, according to my mother, I had to be almost dragged out of the place by my heels! I just couldn't get enough of it.
Although I was very young, I'll never forget the Great Pyramid. I can still smell the stale air in the King's Chamber to this day, and 'feel' the almost oppressive mass of stone above our heads. It's a surreal place to be; almost magical, or like the atmosphere of a huge cathedral only more so!"

*I know you're currently on vacation (or "holiday"), but when you have more time I'D LOVE TO READ MORE ABOUT IT!

Seriously: PLEASE consider telling us all about your childhood Egyptian expedition!

And "Hail Ra!"

--Cindy :laugh:

Shaun Barrett · 2003-08-19 08:07:30

How incredibly flattering that anyone should be interested enough to ask me such a thing! It makes me go 'all unnecessary' to think my childhood exploits could be the subject of curiosity on the part of another person. I'm very much afraid it's bound to turn out a disappointment.

To begin with, it sounds like I came from a family of jet-setting world travellers. Nothing could be further from the truth! Until I was ten, I'd never been more than 150 kilometres from where I was born.
The fact is, the tourist trek through Egypt was simply part of a migration from Australia to Britain, mostly by sea. We stopped briefly in places like Singapore, Penang, Colombo in Sri Lanka (then called Ceylon), Mumbai (then called Bombay), and then the Suez Canal. You could either stay with the ship as it passed through the canal or leave the ship at the Red Sea end and rejoin it at the Mediterranean end, with a bus trip to the pyramids and Cairo in between! Needless to say, we opted for the bus trip.

When trying to remember things from your childhood (and even later in life, I suppose), you tend to recall only isolated events which caught your interest at the time. My memories of Egypt are like disjointed sequences in a movie, some very clear and coherent and others blurred and confused.
The highlights, as I mentioned, were the museum and the Great Pyramid. No, I never climbed the pyramid! I got as far as about the third or fourth layer of blocks but an ascent to the top is no easy matter. It's not only physically demanding but quite dangerous too.
I do remember the cramped passage ways inside the pyramid, and especially a long upward climb in a single-file line of tourists in semi-darkness. The ceiling of that passageway was very low and, even at my age, I had to crouch slightly. The adults were really bent over!

The Museum of Antiquities was full of mummified remains of Egyptians from different social strata and from different eras in history. I remember being mesmerised by the age of these remains and personal effects; the thought that these people had really lived their lives and used these items so long ago. The older the exhibit, the more fascinating I found it! For some reason, I recall being especially interested in anything 3,000 years old or older. Don't ask me why! I guess I thought 3,000 years was just an incredible age.
I got dragged out of there before I'd really had a chance to take everything in. If it had been left up to me, we'd have missed the bus for sure!

Speaking of the bus, I remember vividly a thought that came to me as I sat in the bus waiting to leave a hotel we'd stopped at for lunch. Looking out the window, I stared at two Egyptian boys, not much older than myself, wearing what looked to me like stripy pyjamas(! ) and sitting on the dusty kerb with their bare feet in the gutter. They looked dirty. Not the spectacular dirt that sometimes adorns western children who've been out playing; this was that grimy, more permanent sort of dirt you associate with people who probably don't have access to bathrooms and soap. For the first time in my life I felt the deep-seated disquiet of what, in retrospect, I now recognise as a real sense of vulnerability. It had never dawned on me before that I was privileged to have what I had. I can't even say I'd considered it my right. I'd just never even considered it!
Now, looking at those boys, I imagined the glass not being there ... the bus not being there ... my parents not being there!! How long would I last, alone in the streets of Cairo?! Of all the things I experienced in the five or six weeks of that, to me, monumental journey to a new life in London, my most powerful, enduring and frightening memory is of that sudden revelation in the bus.

The remainder of the trip took us to Malta and finally to Naples. We had brought our car on the ship and drove the rest of the way to England via the ruins of Pompeii, Rome, the Mont Blanc tunnel under the Alps, then Paris and the cross-channel ferry.
I won't bore you with any more details!

["Thank God for that!!", I hear you all shout! :laugh: ]

Palomar · 2003-08-19 08:53:39

How incredibly flattering that anyone should be interested enough to ask me such a thing! It makes me go 'all unnecessary' to think my childhood exploits could be the subject of curiosity on the part of another person. I'm very much afraid it's bound to turn out a disappointment...

*::APPLAUSE!::

Disappointment? Are you kidding?

I certainly enjoyed your post!

You spelled a word: "Kerb." Interesting...here in the States we spell it "curb." (Also, "pyjamas" are pajamas here)

What a realization you had on that bus. I don't believe I've actually ever SEEN grinding poverty (TV and computer images don't count).

If you want to tell us about the car ride in Europe I'd be happy to hear it...of course, you're still currently on vacation at the Gold Coast, I suppose, and I don't want to take time away from that.

But if in the future you'd like to tell us about your travels through Europe, that'd be fun.

BTW, I've seen a photo of the Suez Canal, with a ship going through it...and by the looks of things, yeah, I'd DEFINITELY want to do anything but go through it. Talk about nothing to see but towering rock walls hugging the ship; I'd have a claustrophic response for sure.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-08-19 09:06:37

*I just remembered that I saw the extensive Egyptian exhibition at Chicago's Museum of Natural History (I believe that's the correct name) in 1987 or thereabouts (on a college class "field trip"). The exhibit contained lots of artifacts, of course -- beads, pottery, jewelry, sarcophagi, etc. And mummies. A few of them had been posed to stand on their feet, body-length against the glass. It was eerie to see human bodies like that. One mummy had an very protuberant eyetooth. People in the mummy exhibit were, I thought, rather disrespectful and made some snide comments or cracked bad jokes ("I wonder if he fell asleep smoking a cigarette" -- stuff like that). After that experience I began to wonder about the ethics of displaying mummies; aren't we relegating humans (even if long since dead) to the status of objects and circus-type "freaks" to be stared at? I'm not sure, perhaps I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, but I believe the museum could have -- and should have -- displayed the mummies in a different manner which might have elicited a bit more respect for the dead.

--Cindy

clark · 2003-08-21 14:56:27

If you want to see what they think Nefertiti looked like, go here...

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/ne … /face.html

I believe this is what they showed on the Discovery program.

Palomar · 2003-08-22 05:40:33

If you want to see what they think Nefertiti looked like, go here...
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/ne … /face.html
I believe this is what they showed on the Discovery program.

*Yes, that's the image they showed on the TV program.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-08-30 13:41:08

Nefertiti Dismissed

*A Mr. Hawass says he's certain the mummy is not that of Nefertiti. One of the reasons for this is the mummy's pierced ear; only Pharaohs had pierced ears...and of course all Pharaohs were male. He says the queens wore rings in their wigs.

However, in the TV documentary, Ms. Fletcher stated her theory (based on extensive study) that Nefertiti disguised herself as a man and made herself Pharaoh -- complete with masculine name -- immediately after her husband died. Thus, she would have had a pierced ear upon assuming the masculine role.

As for the broad versus narrow hips issue regarding giving birth to 6 babies...that's a good point.

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2003-08-30 21:28:23

Yeah, I've often wondered about caesarean births these days.
In the old days, women with narrow pelvic girdles died during childbirth and their babies along with them, as likely as not. This must have resulted in strong selective pressure against narrow-hipped women and a consequent predominance of broader hips.
Now women who would have died are routinely saved, at least in the western world, by surgery. Thus perpetuating and gradually disseminating the genetic make-up which gives rise to those narrow hips. And I do seem to be noticing more and more women with narrow hips these days ... Ahem! Not that I've been looking, of course!

If this continues, it seems it must lead to humans (at least in the western world) becoming almost totally dependent on technology in order to produce children.

Taking this to the next logical step, we may need to choose our female Mars colonists wisely. It's always best, in a frontier environment, to bring equipment not prone to breaking down. In a similar way, we naturally propose to send youngish, fit people to Mars on the understanding they are less likely to suffer illnesses requiring awkward medical treatment ... i.e. they're less likely to break down!
By the same token, should we be measuring the pelvic diameters of potential female colonists?
???

Palomar · 2003-08-31 11:57:23

Shaun: "Yeah, I've often wondered about caesarean births these days...Thus perpetuating and gradually disseminating the genetic make-up which gives rise to those narrow hips."

*Hmmmmm. I never thought of it in this manner before. You could be onto something. C-sections, yes; and also breech births. For some time now we've known how to get the hand of a medical professional into the birth canal to assist in guiding the baby into a head-down position; many more women suffered with breech births before intrauterine baby-turning techniques were known (or dared to be attempted at any rate).

Shaun: "And I do seem to be noticing more and more women with narrow hips these days... Ahem! Not that I've been looking, of course!"

*Oh SURE...hahaha. It's okay to do a -little- "window shopping" even for us married folk.

Shaun: "If this continues, it seems it must lead to humans (at least in the western world) becoming almost totally dependent on technology in order to produce children."

*I honestly would be surprised if it ever came to that point.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-07-18 11:04:18

*Shaun, in a different thread:

Of all the pharoahs of Egypt, Ahkenaton is the only one I've ever thought I'd like to have met. His monotheistic new religion was far ahead of its time and, although it seems somewhat primitive to us today, in his day it would have been supremely logical to imagine the Sun as the one true God, in my opinion.
Ahkenaton and his wife, Nefertiti, in my own view of history, were like an ancient and more factual version of Arthur and Guinevere; a brief shining moment of peace, beauty, and sanity in a long-lasting era of darkness and ignorance.
I suppose we can only imagine how much sooner in the story of mankind the more mature concepts of human dignity, liberty, and the rights of the individual might have flourished, if the jealous priests of Amun had been prevented from dousing the light.

*I saw a special about those two last year as well. It seems Ahkenaton treated Nefertiti as an equal, including them competing against one another in chariot races (unheard of!). Apparently her throne was also designed and intended to be a "co-throne" with his. This all outraged the secular and religious establishment at the time of course.

I can't remember the precise details (and there are a zillion web pages to try and comb through), but IIRC they moved the holiest place of worship in Egypt to a new city they built...which caused major problems of course (those jealous priests, etc.). Then there was the matter of Ahkenaton dying and speculation that the new Paraoh was none other than Nefertiti disguised as a man.

As for the special program I saw last year on the Discover channel, for which I began this thread, the last I knew they're still wrangling about whether or not "Lady X" is Nefertiti. But I believe the scientist leading the fray on the matter is probably correct; her evidence seems nearly flawless.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-11-17 10:04:40

http://www.livescience.com/history/king … html]Death of a Teenage King

*Howdy fellow ancient Egypt lovers:

Will definitely follow this item.

It's not about Nefertiti, but didn't want to create a separate thread for it. So young when he died, huh?

--Cindy

P.S.: I'm going to try really hard NOT to get the Steve Martin song stuck in my head...

Palomar · 2005-03-08 20:39:26

http://www.livescience.com/history/king … html]Death of a Teenage King
*Howdy fellow ancient Egypt lovers:
Will definitely follow this item.
It's not about Nefertiti, but didn't want to create a separate thread for it. So young when he died, huh?
--Cindy
P.S.: I'm going to try really hard NOT to get the Steve Martin song stuck in my head...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … ut]Mystery of Tut's death remains unsolved :-\

*Despite extensive CT scanning. No blow to the back of the head, no crush injury to the chest. They're speculating he might have died via infection after breaking a leg with resultant puncturing of skin by bone...but perhaps the folks handling the mummy in 1922 accidentally broke the limb.

His age at death -has- been established for the first time: 19.

The guy leading this study refused to allow DNA testing.

I enjoy ancient Egyptian myth/religion and culture, primarily.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-05-10 14:58:02

http://www.livescience.com/history/king … html]Death of a Teenage King
*Howdy fellow ancient Egypt lovers:
Will definitely follow this item.
It's not about Nefertiti, but didn't want to create a separate thread for it. So young when he died

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/king_tut]The face of King Tut

*Closely resembles ancient portraits of him. Such cool technology besides.

--Cindy

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#1 2003-08-18 09:42:15

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#2 2003-08-18 15:45:21

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#3 2003-08-18 20:04:24

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#4 2003-08-18 21:09:18

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#5 2003-08-19 08:07:30

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#6 2003-08-19 08:53:39

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#7 2003-08-19 09:06:37

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#8 2003-08-21 14:56:27

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#9 2003-08-22 05:40:33

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#10 2003-08-30 13:41:08

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#11 2003-08-30 21:28:23

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#12 2003-08-31 11:57:23

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#13 2004-07-18 11:04:18

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#14 2004-11-17 10:04:40

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#15 2005-03-08 20:39:26

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

#16 2005-05-10 14:58:02

Re: "Nefertiti Ressurected" - ...Discovery Channel special

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