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#1 2017-11-01 21:54:39

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 350

Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

University of Oxford
October 31, 2017

Aliens may be more like us than we think

Hollywood films and science fiction literature fuel the belief that aliens are monster-like beings, who are very different to humans. But new research suggests that we could have more in common with our extra-terrestrial neighbours, than initially thought.

In a new study published in the International Journal of Astrobiology scientists from the University of Oxford show for the first time how evolutionary theory can be used to support alien predictions and better understand their behaviour. They show that aliens are potentially shaped by the same processes and mechanisms that shaped humans, such as natural selection.
The theory supports the argument that foreign life forms undergo natural selection, and are like us, evolving to be fitter and stronger over time.

Sam Levin, a researcher in Oxford’s Department of Zoology, said: ‘A fundamental task for astrobiologists (those who study life in the cosmos) is thinking about what extra-terrestrial life might be like. But making predictions about aliens is hard. We only have one example of life - life on Earth -- to extrapolate from. Past approaches in the field of astrobiology have been largely mechanistic, taking what we see on Earth, and what we know about chemistry, geology, and physics to make predictions about aliens.
By predicting that aliens undergone major transitions - which is how complexity has arisen in species on earth, we can say that there is a level of predictability to evolution that would cause them to look like us.

‘In our paper, we offer an alternative approach, which is to use evolutionary theory to make predictions that are independent of Earth's details. This is a useful approach, because theoretical predictions will apply to aliens that are silicon based, do not have DNA, and breathe nitrogen, for example.’   Using this idea of alien natural selection as a framework, the team addressed extra-terrestrial evolution, and how complexity will arise in space.

Species complexity has increased on the Earth as a result of a handful of events, known as major transitions. These transitions occur when a group of separate organisms evolve into a higher-level organism - when cells become multi-cellular organisms, for example. Both theory and empirical data suggest that extreme conditions are required for major transitions to occur.   The paper also makes specific predictions about the biological make-up of complex aliens, and offers a degree of insight as to what they might look like.

Sam Levin added: ‘We still can't say whether aliens will walk on two legs or have big green eyes. But we believe evolutionary theory offers a unique additional tool for trying to understand what aliens will be like, and we have shown some examples of the kinds of strong predictions we can make with it.  ‘By predicting that aliens undergone major transitions - which is how complexity has arisen in species on earth, we can say that there is a level of predictability to evolution that would cause them to look like us.

‘Like humans, we predict that they are made-up of a hierarchy of entities, which all cooperate to produce an alien. At each level of the organism there will be mechanisms in place to eliminate conflict, maintain cooperation, and keep the organism functioning. We can even offer some examples of what these mechanisms will be.

‘There are potentially hundreds of thousands of habitable planets in our galaxy alone. We can't say whether or not we're alone on Earth, but we have taken a small step forward in answering, if we're not alone, what our neighbours are like.’

http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-10-31-ali … s-we-think

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#2 2017-12-19 10:22:31

CalvinSteen
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From: Tampa, Florida
Registered: 2017-12-06
Posts: 18

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

Hmm, interesting view on extraterrestrials, overall.

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#3 2017-12-19 13:02:11

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 350

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

CalvinSteen wrote:

Hmm, interesting view on extraterrestrials, overall.

I agree with that view.   I don't think they are likely to look like giant bugs such as ants that would enjoy us for a late night snack!

I just wonder if Trump will propose building a trillion dollar space wall to keep the illegal aliens out.

LOL

Last edited by EdwardHeisler (2017-12-19 13:02:34)

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#4 2017-12-19 18:19:47

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

And now we have an ex DoD official confirming that some at least of these UFO sightings are real - they are verified aircraft not optical illusions...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont … qwsaypXh6w

Hmmm...does feel like things are changing.

We had the NASA announcement about similar solar systems to ours.

Now we are told the US government thinks UFOs are probably real but can't explain them...

Are we being readied for some big announcement?

What's next? Some revelation from Mars?

I keep an open mind on all these things. I think that's the best approach.

Last edited by louis (2017-12-19 18:20:11)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#5 2017-12-19 21:20:38

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 350

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

louis wrote:

And now we have an ex DoD official confirming that some at least of these UFO sightings are real - they are verified aircraft not optical illusions...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont … qwsaypXh6w

Hmmm...does feel like things are changing.

We had the NASA announcement about similar solar systems to ours.

Now we are told the US government thinks UFOs are probably real but can't explain them...

Are we being readied for some big announcement?

What's next? Some revelation from Mars?

I keep an open mind on all these things. I think that's the best approach.

Like you, I'll keep an open mind and find nothing wrong with a serious scientific investigation of this matter.   I was mostly surprised that the Department of Defense declassified and released the videos.

But I and most others would need to see hard evidence that UFO's are from some other star system.   Until that happens we can only speculate.

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#6 2017-12-19 22:29:23

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,920
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Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

Science tends to be conservative. Although it's a principle of science to question everything, demand proof of everything, test and re-test everything; science as an institution tends to not accept anything that challenges current accepted belief unless it comes with extraordinary proof. Keeping with that theme, I would first expect a more mundane explanation. Remember, military of every country is always trying to get an edge, and tries to keep their latest developments secret. When SR-71 Blackbird was developed, it was highly classified, extremely secret. It's been decommissioned for years now, but the air force still tries to claim it's stop speed is classified. First test flight of that aircraft was December 1964, it went into official service in 1966. This is December 2017, 53 years after that test flight. This raises the obvious question: what else does the military have?

I didn't know anything about the Soviet spacecraft called Spiral until I read Encyclopedia Astronautica (Astonautix). The guy who built that website got declassified Russian documents released after the breakup of the Soviet Union. Spiral was initially the Soviet counter to Dyna-Soar, started and halted many times. They did actually build a flight test article, air-dropped from a bomber. It was a lifting body spacecraft. Again, what else do foreign militaries have?

There are a few TV shows trying to attribute various developments of the past to space aliens. They don't know how Egyptian pyramids were built, so it must have been space aliens. In the 1800s, no one questioned that because Egyptians were still moving about large stone blocks. An irrigation system in Peru. Humans are very inventive.

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#7 2017-12-20 03:35:19

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

I guess you would have to ask what would happen if indeed an agency reports to the President that UFOs have been confirmed as a reality and are indicative of another intelligent, in fact more advanced, species in the solar system. How would that be handled. The President would probably set up a committee of senior advisers to come up with a policy response.  If you were on a committee how would you advise? You might well respond as follows:

1. This information having been established, it will soon find its way to the media and then the public one way or another.

2. The information could prove very disruptive in the short term. The media will go into a sustained frenzy.  Markets might well react negatively. Investments in future technology might well be affected if investors feel that capital investment is going to made worthless by some "gift" of new technology  from aliens. There may be responses of panic, of religiose fervour.  At the least the government will be accused of hiding the truth from the public.


3. We therefore recommend a moderately paced build of information flow to the public.

- NASA should educate the public about similar solar systems elsewhere in the cosmos and the strong likelihood that they can sustain life.
- Trusted persons recently released from government service should be permitted to talk openly about some UFOs being  real aircraft. 
- NASA should release more photos that reveal a past civilisation on Mars. NASA should neither confirm nor deny but stress this underlines the need for us to visit the planet.
- Supportive persons in Congress should be briefed and encouraged to set up investigations. Government should respond that it has nothing to hide and is willing to co-operate fully.
- During long Congressional Hearings the idea of alien life forms in our solar system should be normalised.
- The President should estbalish a formal Commission which can then confirm the existence of such life forms.
- If contact has been made, such contact can be revealed.

Last edited by louis (2017-12-20 03:35:49)


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#8 2017-12-20 05:39:43

Terraformer
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From: Logres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,404
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Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

Apparently there are a lot of UFO sightings around Lancashire, where I live.

Central Lancashire is also home to BAe Systems. Perhaps there's a connection between UFO sightings and the testing of classified aircraft? Hmmm. There just might be.


To secure a planet it is not necessary to colonise it in its entirety, only to secure the most valuable locations. The Lunar poles and Subterran point. Mercury's poles. The equatorial region of Ceres. Hold these, prevent access to their volatiles and anchor points for beanstalks, and independent colonies cease to be viable.

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#9 2017-12-20 08:26:59

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 350

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

louis wrote:

I guess you would have to ask what would happen if indeed an agency reports to the President that UFOs have been confirmed as a reality and are indicative of another intelligent, in fact more advanced, species in the solar system. How would that be handled. The President would probably set up a committee of senior advisers to come up with a policy response.  If you were on a committee how would you advise? You might well respond as follows:

1. This information having been established, it will soon find its way to the media and then the public one way or another.

2. The information could prove very disruptive in the short term. The media will go into a sustained frenzy.  Markets might well react negatively. Investments in future technology might well be affected if investors feel that capital investment is going to made worthless by some "gift" of new technology  from aliens. There may be responses of panic, of religiose fervour.  At the least the government will be accused of hiding the truth from the public.


3. We therefore recommend a moderately paced build of information flow to the public.

- NASA should educate the public about similar solar systems elsewhere in the cosmos and the strong likelihood that they can sustain life.
- Trusted persons recently released from government service should be permitted to talk openly about some UFOs being  real aircraft. 
- NASA should release more photos that reveal a past civilisation on Mars. NASA should neither confirm nor deny but stress this underlines the need for us to visit the planet.
- Supportive persons in Congress should be briefed and encouraged to set up investigations. Government should respond that it has nothing to hide and is willing to co-operate fully.
- During long Congressional Hearings the idea of alien life forms in our solar system should be normalised.
- The President should estbalish a formal Commission which can then confirm the existence of such life forms.
- If contact has been made, such contact can be revealed.

Why the President of the United States?    Especially the current one!   LOL

It could just as likely be done by the President or Prime Minister of Great Britain, Russia, China, etc., before the United States.   Or after international consultations, the United Nations.

Last edited by EdwardHeisler (2017-12-20 08:27:37)

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#10 2017-12-20 10:08:43

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,920
Website

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

Terraformer wrote:

Apparently there are a lot of UFO sightings around Lancashire, where I live.

Central Lancashire is also home to BAe Systems. Perhaps there's a connection between UFO sightings and the testing of classified aircraft? Hmmm. There just might be.

The CIA has already admitted that most UFO sightings in the US in the 1950s were the U2 spy plane. Most sightings in the 1960s were the SR71 Blackbird. So currently there's an aircraft that doesn't have long narrow traditional wings, has stealth, manoeuvrable and high speed, and flies off as soon as anyone gets close enough to video a black blur at extreme magnification. Of course the US military is going to investigate what other countries have. But these guys think they're space aliens? Uh huh.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2017-12-20 10:09:03)

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#11 2017-12-20 12:11:39

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

Maybe, but (a) the USA is far more open than most societies because of its protection of free speech (b) it's reasonable to suppose that aliens would be most interested in the most advanced countries who most influence Planet Earth (c) it is from the USA that the report confirming the reality of UFO aircraft has actually come.

So that's why I chose to couch my observations in terms of the American politics and government.

EdwardHeisler wrote:
louis wrote:

I guess you would have to ask what would happen if indeed an agency reports to the President that UFOs have been confirmed as a reality and are indicative of another intelligent, in fact more advanced, species in the solar system. How would that be handled. The President would probably set up a committee of senior advisers to come up with a policy response.  If you were on a committee how would you advise? You might well respond as follows:

1. This information having been established, it will soon find its way to the media and then the public one way or another.

2. The information could prove very disruptive in the short term. The media will go into a sustained frenzy.  Markets might well react negatively. Investments in future technology might well be affected if investors feel that capital investment is going to made worthless by some "gift" of new technology  from aliens. There may be responses of panic, of religiose fervour.  At the least the government will be accused of hiding the truth from the public.


3. We therefore recommend a moderately paced build of information flow to the public.

- NASA should educate the public about similar solar systems elsewhere in the cosmos and the strong likelihood that they can sustain life.
- Trusted persons recently released from government service should be permitted to talk openly about some UFOs being  real aircraft. 
- NASA should release more photos that reveal a past civilisation on Mars. NASA should neither confirm nor deny but stress this underlines the need for us to visit the planet.
- Supportive persons in Congress should be briefed and encouraged to set up investigations. Government should respond that it has nothing to hide and is willing to co-operate fully.
- During long Congressional Hearings the idea of alien life forms in our solar system should be normalised.
- The President should estbalish a formal Commission which can then confirm the existence of such life forms.
- If contact has been made, such contact can be revealed.

Why the President of the United States?    Especially the current one!   LOL

It could just as likely be done by the President or Prime Minister of Great Britain, Russia, China, etc., before the United States.   Or after international consultations, the United Nations.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#12 2017-12-20 12:16:40

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

Is it likely that the USA has developed an aircraft that can accelerate to 3600 MPH in under a second? I find that implausible. I think we would have heard about it one way or another.

RobertDyck wrote:
Terraformer wrote:

Apparently there are a lot of UFO sightings around Lancashire, where I live.

Central Lancashire is also home to BAe Systems. Perhaps there's a connection between UFO sightings and the testing of classified aircraft? Hmmm. There just might be.

The CIA has already admitted that most UFO sightings in the US in the 1950s were the U2 spy plane. Most sightings in the 1960s were the SR71 Blackbird. So currently there's an aircraft that doesn't have long narrow traditional wings, has stealth, manoeuvrable and high speed, and flies off as soon as anyone gets close enough to video a black blur at extreme magnification. Of course the US military is going to investigate what other countries have. But these guys think they're space aliens? Uh huh.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#13 2017-12-20 13:20:40

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,920
Website

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

louis wrote:

Is it likely that the USA has developed an aircraft that can accelerate to 3600 MPH in under a second? I find that implausible. I think we would have heard about it one way or another.

Who gave you that acceleration? How do you know it's accurate? I could believe extreme manoeuvrability, Russian Flanker fighter jets have that now. I could believe 3600 MPH, the US air force has been working on that for years. X-43C was supposed to do that with conventional kerosene-type hydrocarbon fuels; but not accelerate to that speed in under a second. Development suspended in 2004. The blur in the video linked in post #4 is so obscure, it could easily be a delta-wing aircraft like SR-71. Or lifting body like X-43A. Or anything.

You would have heard about it? You just did.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2017-12-20 13:24:01)

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#14 2017-12-20 14:42:12

Terraformer
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From: Logres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,404
Website

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

How long have they had to work on ramjets? I will not be surprised if it comes out that they have aircraft capable of reaching, if not cruising, at Mach 5-6.

Could they have spaceplanes? Hmmm... ramjet powered ones that collect and liquefy atmospheric oxygen before using rockets to make the big push to orbit? That could give them satellite coverage within an hour of wanting it, no need to wait for one to pass over the site of interest. Could the X-37 be mainly intended to distract from their actual capabilities?


To secure a planet it is not necessary to colonise it in its entirety, only to secure the most valuable locations. The Lunar poles and Subterran point. Mercury's poles. The equatorial region of Ceres. Hold these, prevent access to their volatiles and anchor points for beanstalks, and independent colonies cease to be viable.

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#15 2017-12-20 15:05:24

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

Sounds to me like you are grasping at non-existent straws. We'd have some inkling of this sort of performance if it were on the horizon. Remember, the aircraft featured in the video is hovering some 50 feet above the water - in itself a pretty remarkable feat, given there is no sign of a propulsive system.  I'm not the one making or verifying the claims - but the claims are clear: these are aircraft with performance levels way beyond our current reach, whether in service or in development.



RobertDyck wrote:
louis wrote:

Is it likely that the USA has developed an aircraft that can accelerate to 3600 MPH in under a second? I find that implausible. I think we would have heard about it one way or another.

Who gave you that acceleration? How do you know it's accurate? I could believe extreme manoeuvrability, Russian Flanker fighter jets have that now. I could believe 3600 MPH, the US air force has been working on that for years. X-43C was supposed to do that with conventional kerosene-type hydrocarbon fuels; but not accelerate to that speed in under a second. Development suspended in 2004. The blur in the video linked in post #4 is so obscure, it could easily be a delta-wing aircraft like SR-71. Or lifting body like X-43A. Or anything.

You would have heard about it? You just did.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#16 2017-12-20 18:03:00

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,920
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Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

Here's a CNN article with just cockpit video, no talking head. Click the image for the CNN page, which has the video. You're trying to tell me it's clear what this is? And you did just claim it's "hovering". Looks to me like it's flying, not hovering.
171219092059-ufo-department-of-defense-unidentified-flying-object-exlarge-169.jpg

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#17 2017-12-20 18:59:45

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont … qwsaypXh6w

I claimed nothing myself. The voiceover said:

"apparently hovering 50 feet above the water".

Not my words. What was said on the video.  Did you actually watch it?

I wasn't taking "hovering" to mean hovering over one particular location, but appearing to hover over the water like a drone hovers even if it is also moving in different directions.


RobertDyck wrote:

Here's a CNN article with just cockpit video, no talking head. Click the image for the CNN page, which has the video. You're trying to tell me it's clear what this is? And you did just claim it's "hovering". Looks to me like it's flying, not hovering.
http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/171219092059-ufo-department-of-defense-unidentified-flying-object-exlarge-169.jpg


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#18 2017-12-22 15:30:13

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w0aXTfDDq8

Here's the pilot talking about what he witnessed. Rather compelling I think. He's obviously been given clearance it would seem, so this does seem to have some official sanction.

Edited to add another interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0psNCUZU50I



RobertDyck wrote:

Here's a CNN article with just cockpit video, no talking head. Click the image for the CNN page, which has the video. You're trying to tell me it's clear what this is? And you did just claim it's "hovering". Looks to me like it's flying, not hovering.
http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/171219092059-ufo-department-of-defense-unidentified-flying-object-exlarge-169.jpg

Last edited by louis (2017-12-22 16:22:53)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#19 2021-06-07 03:08:24

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 1,057

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

UFO/UAP things

Rethinking NASA's Search For Life In The Universe
http://nasawatch.com/archives/2021/06/r … asa-2.html

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#20 2021-06-08 10:26:17

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,924

Re: Oxford University Astrobiologists Study: Aliens May Be More Like Us

The most probable explanation is that we have no clue about what we're looking at, governments realized that there was little point in hiding what was so plainly observable to so many people on the ground and in airliners, so they gave up on determining the origin of these phenomenon, open-sourced what little they actually know or have recorded to the public, and basically said, "We've had no luck figuring out what this is so, so here, you figure it out."  Governments like to have answers so they don't appear incompetent to the public, but after decades of study, we're most likely no closer to actually knowing what we're dealing with than when they first started investigating.  The only caveat to that statement would be if they managed to recover one of these UAPs that crashed.

Edit:
My money is on "swamp gas"- the kind that produces radar and IR reflections, accelerates to Mach 6 from a dead stop, turns better than a fighter jet, and can travel above and below the surface of the water.

Last edited by kbd512 (2021-06-08 10:28:28)

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