SETI Is Investigating a Possible Extraterrestrial Signal

RobertDyck · 2016-08-29 21:14:18

Not a Drill: SETI Is Investigating a Possible Extraterrestrial Signal From Deep Space

An international team of scientists from the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) is investigating mysterious signal spikes emitting from a 6.3-billion-year-old star in the constellation Hercules—95 light years away from Earth. The implications are extraordinary and point to the possibility of a civilization far more advanced than our own.
The unusual signal was originally detected on May 15, 2015, by the Russian Academy of Science-operated RATAN-600 radio telescope in Zelenchukskaya, Russia, but was kept secret from the international community. Interstellar space reporter Paul Gilster broke the story after the researchers quietly circulated a paper announcing the detection of “a strong signal in the direction of HD164595.”
The mysterious star’s designation is HD164595, and it’s considered to be sun-like in nature with a nearly identical metallic composition to our own star. So far, a single Neptune-like (but warmer) planet has been discovered in its orbit—HD 164595 b. But as Gilster explained, “There could, of course, be other planets still undetected in this system.”
Decorated Italian SETI researcher and mathematician Claudio Maccone along with Russia’s Nikolai Bursov of the Special Astrophysical Observatory are the principal scientists working on the apparent discovery. They claim that “permanent monitoring of this target is needed.”
“The signal conceivably fits the profile for an intentional transmission from an extraterrestrial source,” said Alan Boyle, author of “The Case for Pluto” who reported the story for Geekwire. “In any case, the blip is interesting enough to merit discussion by those who specialize in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.”

One guy on Facebook speculated this is probably WiFi of space selfies and space kittens, or alien reality shows.

RobertDyck · 2016-08-29 21:26:05

Marconi transmitted a signal over 2 miles (3.2km) in 1886, the English channel in 1887, and across the Atlantic in 1901. This star is 95 light years away, so there is no time for them to respond to anything from Earth.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2016-08-31 04:19:25)

GW Johnson · 2016-08-30 18:37:03

I have not seen this reported in the news elsewhere. Is this real? If so, it is astonishing.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2016-08-30 18:37:21)

SpaceNut · 2016-08-30 19:05:06

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/seti-team-i … ears-away/

GW Johnson · 2016-08-31 10:00:51

Well, the presence of a signal seems to be a fact, based on the CBS News article, pending confirmation by other observers, and pending verification that this is in fact artificial. All the rest in that article is rampant speculation based upon an assumption of of isotropic/omni-directional energy distribution into space from that source.

A possible alternative hypothesis that explains why such detections have been so rare over the last half century of looking: what if the source is directional, as in, say, a MASER?

If I were an alien group at point A wanting to send a signal to another group at point B, why would I use an omnidirectional broadcast method whose intensity decreases by the inverse square law? Would I not instead want to use a very directional signal, far less subject to dilution through space, and far less energy-expensive to accomplish?

And if such signals are very directional, then they would be invisible to all other observers, excepting those very few that just happen to lie along the transmission direction. Would that not explain the rarity of detections, assuming in the first place that there are a lot of aliens and signals out there?

Just a hypothesis, needing testing to verify. But very suggestive as an explanation.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2016-08-31 10:02:27)

RobertDyck · 2016-08-31 13:14:27

My hypothesis is aliens are using quantum entanglement. It's difficult to establish a connection, may require sending a physical unmanned probe to initiate a link. But once established the link can be used to form more links, creating redundancy. Quantum entanglement theoretically has no distance limit, extremely low energy so very efficient, and instantaneous. So you create a high speed connection that allows telephone, TV, and internet between stars. No signal delay at all. The catch is it can't be detected by any means. If they're using that, we're screwed.

One possibility is a radio signal to that could be homed in upon very precisely to align the subatomic particles at each end. If my understanding is correct, then a photon travelling at the speed of light has one of its dimensions collapsed. It's a 3-dimensional space-time object in our 4-dimensional space-time universe. An electron travels close to the speed of light so one of it's dimensions is mostly collapsed. It's a 3-and-a-little-bit dimension object. Establishing a quantum link requires aiming the electron so the axis along the dimension that's collapsed passes through both subatomic particles. While the electron continues to move at over 90% the speed of light. And movements of the electron are random because it has 3-and-a-fraction dimensions. It's movements are fractal. Ok, try aiming a gun over 95 light years where your target is the diameter of an electron, moving chaotically at 90%+ the speed of light! And the target electron has to be aimed back at your electron at the same time! Not gonna happ'n. That's why you have to establish the link while both electrons are within one atom, so the aim is ±60° or ±30° depending on which electron shell. Then tease the electrons out of the atom without breaking the quantum link, then hold those electrons in a quantum well of a microchip, contained with electro-static charges without hitting any physical wall. Hitting something physical would break the link.

Electrons will probably have a limited range to their link since they're dimension is only partially collapsed. Photons would have infinite range since their dimension is completely collapsed. But how do you contain a photon? And how do you get information out of a contained photon without destroying it?

This would explain why we can't hear anything.

That said. SETI is very intriguing, but we have to be careful. Decades ago there was detection of a signal they thought was artificial. It was clear, repeated, and couldn't be generated by any known natural phenomenon. It was not random at all, it repeated with a very precise period. Further analysis revealed it was natural, but generated by something astronomers did not know before that. This was the first discovered pulsar. A neutron star produced strong radio signals from it's poles, and it spun with magnetic poles not aligned to the axis of rotation. So the radio signal spun around like the light from a lighthouse. It has a fixed period because that's the period of rotation of the star.

So is this artificial, or natural? That's yet to be answered.

GW Johnson · 2016-08-31 15:20:51

I don't pretend to understand the quantum stuff you are talking about. It's WAY outside of my experience.

But, if one were to point a maser at a distant target, there is some spreading in the beam, just like in a laser. That helps ensure the aiming problem isn't overwhelming. Then just modulate the maser in some way to send information. For us, that's 1960's lab-scale technology. We've never built a really huge one, but in principle, we could.

Here's another odd thought: suppose these aliens are very technologically-advanced, and possess some sort of faster-than-light travel (which we do not understand). The point of a maser beacon might not be information transfer, but a simple "highway" marker: you are getting off course if the signal weakens. Steer your ship to maximize the signal intensity. The analog here at home is laser beam-rider missile guidance technology.

GW

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-09-01 01:32:03

I think it was just radio leakage, their signals weren't meant to travel over interstellar distances at all, it is after all, not very practical to send a signal 95 light years and expect an answer. One question is, if we are receiving their radios signals, are they receiving ours? Right now they should be receiving our radio signals from 1921.

GW Johnson · 2016-09-02 08:49:50

Well, there is a signal strength versus background noise thing to consider. All signals decrease in strength with distance from origination. Omni-directional signals weaken very rapidly by the inverse square law. Collimated sources at a rate far less severe than that law, and coherent sources less than that. To be received, the signal strength must exceed the strength of the background noise.

Radio from Earth as of 1921 would weaken across 95 light years to far below background strength. I doubt anyone that far away could even pick up today's far stronger radio noise. But some outfit only a light year away probably could. That difference in distance (ratio roughly 10^2) is a factor of 10^4 on signal strength.

Because of those effects, for us to receive a signal from that far away, I would presume the source was a collimated or coherent beam, if artificial at all. If so, it might not have been intended for us, but I doubt such a thing would be unintended leakage. The energy and effort required to do this are too large for it to be a waste item. Anybody capable of manipulating energies so high should also be knowledgeable enough to do it with less waste.

It seems more likely this blip is something natural that we don't yet understand. The last one was some sort of pulsar with an off-angle wobbling magnetic field. The spin and the geometry created the pulsed signal at a star's energy production rate. That kind of power makes it receivable across the light years. There have been several such detections over the years. All were eventually identified as natural sources, although some took years to understand.

Even so, this is a remarkable event. It's a damned shame the Russians kept this secret when they detected it. If they hadn't done that, another team or teams could have verified it and collected additional data. As it is, this thing appears to be unverified as well as not yet understood.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2016-09-02 08:55:08)

JoshNH4H · 2016-09-02 09:33:07

RobertDyck wrote:

My hypothesis is aliens are using quantum entanglement.

It's interesting to me how you have repeatedly and confidently asserted your hypothesis which is in clear violation of the laws of physics in general and is also specifically contrary to what physicists working on quantum entanglement say.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-05-28 13:56:56

Scientists use new strategy to identify ‘alien’ life on other planets
https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/al … ts/110388/

NASA Scientist: We Should Take UFOs as Seriously as Mars Research
https://futurism.com/nasa-scientist-ufos

NASA traces source of fast radio bursts sending signals to Earth
https://www.yahoo.com/news/nasa-traces- … 42380.html

NASA’s Exoplanet-Hunting Space Telescope Needs Your Help Finding New Worlds
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sc … new-worlds

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-15 08:40:27

Where are the ocean worlds in our solar system?

https://www.planetary.org/articles/wher … lar-system

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-19 09:24:21

'Broadcasting Earth’s location could provoke alien invasion, Oxford scientist warns'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/0 … sa-warned/

and Seti once said

first proof of alien life in the Milky Way will occur in the 2020s ?

Calliban · 2022-04-19 09:54:59

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

'Broadcasting Earth’s location could provoke alien invasion, Oxford scientist warns'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/0 … sa-warned/
and Seti once said
first proof of alien life in the Milky Way will occur in the 2020s ?

Anyone with the ability to cross light-years of space, isn't likely to be interested in the pitiful real estate provided by our little planet. Think about. Anyone that can build a starship, can also use extraterrestrial resources to build space colonies. If they come to our solar system looking for fresh resources, they will be more interested in the asteroid belt than in our little planet. Earth is a gravitational prison for our people.

Terraformer · 2022-04-19 13:32:41

Imagine being that advanced and not having very good wide baseline space telescopes.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-22 14:54:25

Scientists Hope To Broadcast DNA and Earth's Location For Curious Aliens

https://www.theguardian.com/science/202 … ous-aliens

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-05-07 07:42:09

Sun-like star found in the region of the sky where the most ever alien-like radio signal came from

http://cambridge.org/core/journals/inte … C67BAA5B1A

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-05-07 07:48:14

edit

double post?

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-05-19 13:48:26)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-05-19 13:48:08

Transmitting messages into space is a controversial field called ‘METI’ — Messaging Extraterrestrial Intelligence. Now a team of scientists led by NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) have joined the fray by creating what they call the ‘Beacon in the Galaxy’.

https://www.supercluster.com/editorial/ … vilization

tahanson43206 · 2022-05-19 17:51:20

For Mars_B4_Moon...

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

Sun-like star found in the region of the sky where the most ever alien-like radio signal came from
http://cambridge.org/core/journals/inte … C67BAA5B1A

The group that detected the Wow Signal still exists. Most are up in years now, but everyone is still with us.

I put your post on the group bulletin board.

Thanks for your many posts on many subjects, but thanks especially for this one!

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-05-26 06:18:51

Still making the news at slashdot and space dot com

Famous 'Alien' Wow! Signal May Have Come From Distant, Sunlike Star
https://science.slashdot.org/story/22/0 … r#comments

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-06-01 10:12:35

4 hostile alien civilizations may lurk in the Milky Way, a new study suggests

https://www.livescience.com/malicious-a … tions-odds

But Earth is 100 times more likely to be destroyed by an asteroid than invaded by aliens.

The new paper, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, poses a peculiar question: What are the odds that humans could one day contact a hostile alien civilization that's capable of invading our planet?

To reach his estimation, Caballero first counted the number of countries that invaded other countries between 1915 and 2022. He found that a total of 51 of the world's 195 nations had launched some sort of invasion during that period. (The U.S. sat at the top of the list, with 14 invasions tallied in that time.) Then, he weighted each country's probability of launching an invasion based on that country's percentage of the global military expenditure. (Again, the U.S. came top with 38% of global military spending.)

From there, Caballero added each country's individual probability of instigating an invasion, then divided the sum by the total number of countries on Earth, ending up with what he describes as "the current human probability of invasion of an extraterrestrial civilization."

According to this model, the current odds of humans invading another inhabited planet are 0.028%. However, Caballero wrote, that probability refers to the current state of human civilization — and humans aren't currently capable of interstellar travel. If current rates of technological advancement hold, then interstellar travel wouldn't be possible for another 259 years, Caballero calculated using the Kardashev scale (opens in new tab) — a system that categorizes how advanced a civilization is based on its energy expenditure.

kbd512 · 2022-06-01 19:12:39

If I understand this guy's logic correctly, he presumed that some unquantifiable number of alien civilizations might be similar to homo sapiens with respect to our penchant for war, and then pulled a number out of his butt based solely upon very recent military invasions conducted here on Earth. Since we've yet to contact an alien civilization that isn't a big government secret we're not allowed to know about, I guess that makes as much sense as anything else I've heard.

I would opine that if some alien civilization had the technology to travel here from another star, then they would probably view humans as ants by way of comparison, barely worth noting and certainly not worth fighting with. If we found a world inhabited by dog-like or cat-like creatures, then I suspect we'd barely pay attention to them. They would be a passing scientific curiosity, but that's about it.

Humans frequently imagine space aliens to be like something out of the "Aliens" or "Predator" movie series, whereas I would assert that any creatures that hellbent on "taking over" would probably also destroy the place they're trying to take over and themselves in the process. Basically, creatures that ruthless typically don't make it very far.

Look at how evolution played out here on Earth. Have the strongest or most vicious creatures or those that multiply like a virus truly "taken over", or was it the one creature capable of forming and applying abstract thought which ultimately came to dominate the planet?

Speaking of viruses, the virus and bacteria living on a target planet are yet another reason why "alien invasions" remain highly unlikely. Maybe sufficiently advanced space aliens could zap every last human on the planet, but zapping all the viruses and bacteria are another matter entirely.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-06-15 03:33:48

'DarkForest? The universe is a dark forest. Every civilization is an armed hunter stalking through the trees like a ghost, gently pushing aside branches that block the path and trying to tread without sound. Even breathing is done with care. The hunter has to be careful, because everywhere in the forest are stealthy hunters like him.
https://bigthink.com/surprising-science … liens-yet/

Beyond “Fermi’s Paradox” XVI: What is the “Dark Forest” Hypothesis?
https://www.universetoday.com/149410/be … ypothesis/

Fermi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmCTmgavkrQ

China claims it may have detected signs of an alien civilization.

Do not answer!? Do not answer!

The suspicious signals could, however, also be some kind of radio interference and requires further investigation

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … ilizations

“ China said its giant Sky Eye telescope may have picked up signs of alien civilizations, according to a report by the state-backed Science and Technology Daily, which then appeared to have deleted the report and posts about the discovery.
The narrow-band electromagnetic signals detected by Sky Eye -- the world’s largest radio telescope -- differ from previous ones captured and the team is further investigating them, the report said, citing Zhang Tonjie, chief scientist of an extraterrestrial civilization search team co-founded by Beijing Normal University, the National Astronomical Observatory of the Chinese Academy of Sciences and the University of California, Berkeley.
It isn’t clear why the report was apparently removed from the website of the Science and Technology Daily, the official newspaper of China’s science and technology ministry, though the news had already started trending on social network Weibo and was picked up by other media outlets, including state-run ones.
In September 2020, Sky Eye, which is located in China’s southwestern Guizhou province and has a diameter of 500 meters (1,640 feet), officially launched a search for extraterrestrial life. The team detected two sets of suspicious signals in 2020 while processing data collected in 2019, and found another suspicious signal in 2022 from observation data of exoplanet targets, Zhang said, according to the report.
China’s Sky Eye is extremely sensitive in the low-frequency radio band and plays a critical role in the search for alien civilizations, Zhang is reported to have said.
The suspicious signals could, however, also be some kind of radio interference and requires further investigation, he added.
Calls by Bloomberg News to the Science and Technology Daily weren’t answered.”

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-06-15 03:38:00)

Calliban · 2022-06-15 06:09:19

I find the 'hostile aliens' hypothesis to be improbable.

Firstly, any civilisation with the resources to cross interstellar space, will be a space based civilisation. The majority of beings and infrastructure will have moved beyond their home planet. They will also have mastered nuclear fusion, which opens up resources in the outer parts of their solar system, where sunlight is weak. Most of its 'people' will live in habitations that they have built, probably free space stations. For beings that have reached that stage of development, the Earth really won't be that interesting from a resource point of view. Resource extraction is limited to the outer crust and everything that there is, sits at the bottom of a deep gravity well. That makes planetary resources expensive compared to asteroid resources, especially to a civilisation that is fully accustomed to exploiting space based resources. Earth may be scientifically interesting, but the alien civ is unlikely to conquer us just so they can study Earth's ecosystem. The resources that they will be interested in are likely to be in our solar systems asteroid belt.

Secondly, so far as we know, there is nothing uniquely valuable about the Sol systems material resources compared to other star systems. The Earth probably is unusual, but Jupiter, Mars and the asteroid belt, not so much. So there is no special resource that our solar system has to offer that a billion others do not. There is no reason to rush here and take anything.

Thirdly, crossing the interstellar voids with an invasion force would be a very difficult undertaking. The faster the invasion, the more difficult it becomes. We are talking about loading an invasion force onto thousands of Deadelus class starships. The supply lines are light years long and the journey would take decades. Without any serious motivation, it is hard to imagine anyone going to such expense for sheer spite.

When you consider these things in totality, the idea of hostile alien invasion because we happen to have made ourselves known, looks improbable. It is possible that an expanding alien civilisation could colonise our solar system because we happen to be on their expansion path. In that case, they havn't come to conquer us, they arejust expanding their living space. But that hasn't happened in 4.5 billion years. There is no special reason to believe it will happen in the next thousand years. And there won't be any mad rush to grab our solar system just because our presence has become known. No one rushes to annex a piece of distant land just because they discover an any colony living there. Likely, if our solar system were annexed by an alien civ, they would be interested in talking to talking to us. But the Earth isn't going to be a place that has a lot of value to them.

As human beings, we are accustomed to living on the surface of a small ball of rock. There are strict limits on food supply, living space, energy resources and raw materials. There are a lot of competing interests on a small 2-dimensional surface. There are never really enough resources for everyone that wants them. In the competition for what there is and control of strategic chock points, there are wars and invasions, often brutal. But for a truly space based civilisation, with resources coming from dispersed asteroids, comets and moons and energy from sunlight and controlled fusion, these sorts of pressures do not really exist. They certainly don't apply across interstellar distances that will take at decades and probably centuries to cross. We worry about invasion because we have been conditioned by evolution onna finite planet. In deep space, the rules of life are going to be very different. Any alien civ that contacts us will almost certainly be more interested in information that we can provide them, than any physical stuff we have.

Last edited by Calliban (2022-06-15 06:30:04)

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#1 2016-08-29 21:14:18

SETI Is Investigating a Possible Extraterrestrial Signal

#2 2016-08-29 21:26:05

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#3 2016-08-30 18:37:03

Re: SETI Is Investigating a Possible Extraterrestrial Signal

#4 2016-08-30 19:05:06

Re: SETI Is Investigating a Possible Extraterrestrial Signal

#5 2016-08-31 10:00:51

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#6 2016-08-31 13:14:27

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#7 2016-08-31 15:20:51

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#8 2016-09-01 01:32:03

Re: SETI Is Investigating a Possible Extraterrestrial Signal

#9 2016-09-02 08:49:50

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#10 2016-09-02 09:33:07

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#11 2021-05-28 13:56:56

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#12 2022-04-15 08:40:27

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#13 2022-04-19 09:24:21

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#14 2022-04-19 09:54:59

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#15 2022-04-19 13:32:41

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#16 2022-04-22 14:54:25

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#17 2022-05-07 07:42:09

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#18 2022-05-07 07:48:14

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#19 2022-05-19 13:48:08

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#20 2022-05-19 17:51:20

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#21 2022-05-26 06:18:51

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#22 2022-06-01 10:12:35

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#23 2022-06-01 19:12:39

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#24 2022-06-15 03:33:48

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#25 2022-06-15 06:09:19

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