Million Miles March - Million Person march for Space advocates

clark · 2003-08-08 12:28:19

What do people think of organizing an event, similar to the many "Million "insert group here" march, for Space Advocates?

Perhaps have the event coincide with the next Shuttle launch, or other space related event?

Destinations could be either Washington D.C., or Cape Canavril in Flordia (where the Shuttle launches).

The idea would be to physically demonstrate the support for furthering mans reach into space. It provides publicity to the cause, and would be during the run up to the next Presidential election (2004), thus perhaps making 'space' an election year issue.

Josh Cryer · 2003-08-08 12:34:51

It's a good idea, but who here on these forums has the energy to do it? We'd need to promote someone within the Mars Society, and this would require working with other Space Advocacy organizations (the Planetary Society, the Moon groups- there are several- the asteroid groups, and so on).

Mars' close approach this year, and also, the rovers landing on Mars, could indeed give us more of an opprtunity to try, but I still don't see it becoming a magnificant show of American interest in space (because in reality, we're not).

We probably don't even number in the millions.

clark · 2003-08-08 12:39:28

It's a good idea, but who here on these forums has the energy to do it?

I'm sure there is energy, it just needs to be managed and directed.

Mars' close approach this year, and also, the rovers landing on Mars, could indeed give us more of an opprtunity to try, but I still don't see it becoming a magnificant show of American interest in space (because in reality, we're not).

Recent polls show a majority of americans are interested in space. ALl these groups of different stripes show an interest in space. However, by and large, we have become a silent majority. Politicans don't take us seriously becuse we don't take ourselves seriously.

Besides, a Shuttle launch is a draw unto itself... and to part of a movement to take an active part in reaching the stars.... that is just icing on the cake, IMO.

Josh Cryer · 2003-08-08 12:49:40

Would you happen to have a link to such a poll?

Palomar · 2003-08-08 13:44:31

*Maybe do a "flash mob" thing instead...you know, the recent craze that started in New York where people invite others via e-mail to meet at a certain place, at a certain time, and chant things or squack like chickens or scream at inflatable dinosaur toys.

Hmmmm, a flash mob at NASA in Houston, with people yelling "Mars colony, NOW!"

--Cindy

Adrian · 2003-08-08 18:08:39

Million miles march? Damn, that's a good idea. Wouldn't be too difficult to accomplish if we got a few tens of thousands (preferably a hundred thousand!) people to take part - and after all, we wouldn't expect the target to be reached in just a few days. It'll take time.

The question is ensuring that people actually tell the truth when they say, 'I walked x miles today'...

clark · 2003-08-08 19:10:55

Josh, I'll find the poll...

Adrian, I think a Million Mile march like "walk for Cancer" or "walk for AIDS cure" is a great idea. However, I was envisoning something similar to the "Million Mom March" or "Million Man March" (African American march) that converged on Washington DC.

Now, either one would do a great deal of good for space advocates, so which one is rather immaterial.

That said, I thought a march on Florida, with a million space advocates, during an election year, on the very next Shuttle launch, in a state whose govenor happens to be the brother of the current sitting president, and in a state which holds a great number of electoral seats, and said state has a vested interest in NASA and/or aerospace, and also was the site of a huge electoral debacle in 2000, just might be a great PR coup.

A million people, all demanding that our leaders leadus into space, following the previously close 2000 election, just might get our cause the attention it deserves.

It would also act as means to coordiante space advocates across the nation into a more coherent, and effective whole.

Imagine booths where people from each state sign a petition, which are presented to their State and House represenatives.

"A journey of a million miles begins with YOU taking the first step."

To florida...

Palomar · 2003-08-09 05:39:04

*Um, you are aware that if you name it "Million Miles March" you are giving Louis Farrakhan a reminder? If that's not a problem, fine...but he's a highly controversial and somewhat dubious personality who had the "Million Man March" some years ago. Just a thought.

Maybe call it "Million Miles Marathon" instead.

BTW, I think it's a good idea, Clark.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-08-09 09:24:29

Anyone want to pay for my plane ticket?

clark · 2003-08-09 09:37:24

Thanks Cindy, as for Farrakn [shrug], use what works.

And Josh, save your money for the bet.

Perhaps some might float the idea at the next Mars Society convention to get a feel for the reception of the idea.

Space week is coming up in October, right? Perhaps some free advertising for something like this could take place.

Afterall, even if it isn't a million people, lots of people converging for the next Shuttle launch would be something to take note of.

Josh Cryer · 2003-08-09 10:23:47

I think several thousand people watch the Shuttle launches. You'll expect to see many more than usual now after the accident.

Adrian · 2003-08-09 10:32:35

Clark - my mistake, I misunderstood what you meant. While I think the idea of a Million Miles March (as in, getting a million people to march) would be great, I honestly don't think that it could happen in the near future; there just aren't that many people who believe in space exploration that fervently. It's one thing to get people to march for gun rights, abortion or civil rights, but entirely another thing to get them to march for something that will not directly impact them or their health.

But yeah, getting a lot of people for the next Shuttle launch would be great. As would co-ordinating a lot of simultaneous parties for, say, the first of the three Mars landings that'll be happening next year...

prometheusunbound · 2003-08-11 11:53:56

It's one thing to get people to march for gun rights, abortion or civil rights, but entirely another thing to get them to march for something that will not directly impact them or their health.

Then use idealism. A mighty exhortion is always more attractive than a dry speech to the voters. "New Frontier" "Holy Land II" will get more attention and arouse more people than anything else. Proclaim your will to colonize mars as a holy crusade and the disaffected will notice. Just look at how the NuclearSpace website works to get an idea how to turn an nonexsitant issue into something that people will give time and money to. Ah, the idealism of the space program is the very cause for its exsitance, but is a very pragmatic idealism when it comes to poltics.

Josh Cryer · 2003-08-11 15:07:39

Americans aren't as easily swayed as you might think. And even though there's a pretty good argument that a lot of Americans are basically not very bright (hey, I could potentially fall in that category, so don't bite!), they are wise enough not to follow some dogmatic crap without something to back it up.

It's one thing to get people to rally for some non-existant thing which has very many unknowns. It's another thing to get people to rally for something that exists which they can have their own vested interest in. If the Space elevator existed right now, I can see the public petitioning for travel on it before it was even ready for prime time.

And BTW, Zubrin has made the Frontier argument. It hasn't worked. And the thing is, it's not even too biased of an argument to make.

Also, regarding the NuclearSpace issue... I believe nuclear R&D will eventually prove their ideas ultimately defunct in the inner solar system.

clark · 2003-08-12 08:12:05

I honestly don't think that it could happen in the near future; there just aren't that many people who believe in space exploration that fervently.

For one million people, we would need 21,000 people from 48 states.

Florida is a mighty populous state all by its own, and a lot of people depend on aerospace out there.

California, where I live, has a big sector in aerospace, and is the most populated state.

If you honestly believe that there isn't at least one million or more people who believe in expanding humanities reach into space, then what the hell is all of this?

Why exhort our politcal leaders, or call upon the private groups to make space happen?

We have 260,000,000 Americans, and if there are less than 1,000,000 who support NASA or humans in space, then wouldn't ANY investment in space be a derriliction of duty by our politcal leaders? They would in effect NOT be representing the American people.

It's one thing to get people to march for gun rights, abortion or civil rights, but entirely another thing to get them to march for something that will not directly impact them or their health

Which is why an argumengt must be formulated that explains clearly, and consiely why Space is so important. Show how space will directly impact their lives, or their childrens lives.

WTF are we doing otherwise?

Josh,

Americans aren't as easily swayed as you might think.

Perhaps not, but this isn't selling a war, it's selling a future. It's selling a plan.

And BTW, Zubrin has made the Frontier argument. It hasn't worked. And the thing is, it's not even too biased of an argument to make.

The Fronteir argument is crap. It sells books.

An argument that suggests that Space is an undeveloped area of economic opportunity that is nearly infinite. An argument that suggests we train a future generation, and then work to providing said future generation with future opportunities by which they can make use of their training and education. We're talking about high wage jobs in aerospace. Engineer's. Creation of manufacturing sector jobs- high skilled, that pays wells, building rockets and satelites.
These are the points that have to be driven home, to show what's in it for all of us.

Palomar · 2003-08-12 08:48:09

Clarkie sez: "For one million people, we would need 21,000 people from 48 states...If you honestly believe that there isn't at least one million or more people who believe in expanding humanities reach into space, then what the hell is all of this?"

*Chill out, babycakes. There are probably at least a million people (globally) interested in manned space exploration in some form or another...but getting a million people to congregate in one particular location to march or demonstrate is an entirely different matter altogether.

Most folks are tied down with family matters, many live paycheck-to-paycheck (though not I), lots of folks allot their paid time off from work very carefully (illness of children, family events including marriages and deaths, personal illnesses, visits to doctors, etc.) and what with the current terrorist troubles many people are reluctant about mass transit (and the alternative -- driving there via your own vehicle -- is time consuming and costly as well).

See?

--Cindy

prometheusunbound · 2003-08-12 09:45:35

When the black death ended(for the most part), the western world seemed to have found victory in survival after all the wars of the world, famine and death. The primary focus was no longer on apcolplyse but on building cathedrals that were for the glory of god on earth. We have survived, and will survive. The problems of humanity will follow us to our deaths, but why should we stop dreaming dreams about dreams simply because man suffers?

clark · 2003-08-12 09:57:57

Babycakes? ???

I realize all of the reasons people can tell themselves why they shouldn't go, that only demonstrates a lack of conviction.

If only a few thousand people are interested in mankind going off into space, then perhaps we should all just shut the hell up. If only 1,000,000 out of 6.7 billion people want mankind to go into space, that offically means space advocates are a bunch of crack pots. :laugh:

What's so hard about getting people to show up on a certain date for an EVENT? A shuttle launch no less. The first shuttle launch, in daylight, since the previous tragedy?

People think there are no space advocates becuase there is very little done by space advocates to demonstrate they even exsist.

Having conventions where we pat each other on the back is one thing. Having converstations with each other, who all friggin agree anyway, is another thing.

But it's like a bunch of religious nuts sitting in their compound, never leaving, wondering why the hell no one else can see their brand of wisdom!

Palomar · 2003-08-12 10:24:18

Clark: "Babycakes?"

*Would you prefer I call you "poopeysnot" instead?

Clark: "I realize all of the reasons people can tell themselves why they shouldn't go, that only demonstrates a lack of conviction."

*You must be a single man without children or in-laws. Mmmm-hmmmm. There's a difference between unwillingness and inability. And speaking of convictions...have you shelled out $50.00 to join the Mars Society yet? If not, who are you to push an idea encouraging people to spend hundreds of dollars to attend a single event? I'm not trying to be offensive, but this is a legitimate question.

Clark: If only a few thousand people are interested in mankind going off into space, then perhaps we should all just shut the hell up.

*Your "logic" always escapes me (then again, I think you might simply be looking for a debate because you're bored or something). So all space advocates must show up at a march to "prove" they are sincere? Again, where's your checkbook been lately?

Clark: "If only 1,000,000 out of 6.7 billion people want mankind to go into space, that offically means space advocates are a bunch of crack pots..."

*Oh, I see. And just how many pro-space humans are required before those of us who are already pro-space aren't considered "crack pots"?

Clark: "What's so hard about getting people to show up on a certain date for an EVENT? A shuttle launch no less. The first shuttle launch, in daylight, since the previous tragedy?"

*Well...who's stopping you from trying to organize such an event? Simply discussing it here does no one any good...and it was your idea for starters.

Clark: "Having conventions where we pat each other on the back is one thing. Having converstations with each other, who all friggin agree anyway, is another thing."

*How is the last example "another thing"? You seem to wish to point out a "preaching to the choir" mentality.

Clark: "But it's like a bunch of religious nuts sitting in their compound, never leaving, wondering why the hell no one else can see their brand of wisdom!"

*Oh come on. Pro-space exploration articles are usually rather current in the media (multimedia), and the Mars Society isn't the only "game" out there. This isn't 1003, Clarkie.

--Cindy

clark · 2003-08-12 10:40:12

Would you prefer I call you "poopeysnot" instead?

No thanks. Clark, will do nicely enough. Unless of course you get some sort of satisfaction out of using nick names to demonstrate affability. Whatever gets you there.

*You must be a single man without children or in-laws. Mmmm-hmmmm.

If you say I must. Mmmmm-hmmmm.

And speaking of convictions...have you shelled out $50.00 to join the Mars Society yet?

Need I join the Mars Society to demonstrate my conviction? Bleh. Put me in a box, place a check by my name, and send me a newsletter every few weeks... More power to those who join, but I certainly will not pay for that privilage.

? If not, who are you to push an idea encouraging people to spend hundreds of dollars to attend a single event?

I'm Clark.

It's not like I'm encouraging people to jump off a bridge now, am I?

Most here seem to want something, and I am pointing out a way to get it.

So all space advocates must show up at a march to "prove" they are sincere?

Yes. Unless you are willing to alter your life, in any amount, nothing will get done. Civil rights didn't happen becuase people sat at home, it happened becuase people got out of their home, and made their voice physically heard.

*Oh, I see. And just how many pro-space humans are required before those of us who are already pro-space aren't considered "crack pots"?

More than 1% of the population. 1,000,000 dosen't even register on the radar screen out of 6.6 billion. It's less than a tenth of a tenth of one percent.

Oh come on. Pro-space exploration articles are usually rather current in the media (multimedia), and the Mars Society isn't the only "game" out there.

So why not capatilize on it and do something like this? This dosen't, and should not be only Mars Society- this needs to be as broad as possible.

Palomar · 2003-08-12 10:51:33

Me: "You must be a single man without children or in-laws. Mmmm-hmmmm."

Clark: "If you say I must. Mmmmm-hmmmm."

*Nope...please don't misunderstand. I'm simply pointing out that some (or rather, many) people are tied down with kids, school schedules, in-laws (some of whom are elderly, ill, require extra family attention), have paltry paid time off plans with their employers and save that time back for when the kids are ill or they themselves are ill...c'mon, Clark.

Me: "And speaking of convictions...have you shelled out $50.00 to join the Mars Society yet?"

Clark: "Need I join the Mars Society to demonstrate my conviction?"

*-You- very strongly implied that space advocates who wouldn't (regardless of reasons) attend the March you're pitching must lack convictions. If that is so, then your not having forked over $50.00 for membership does (by -your- own line of argument) imply that you also lack conviction.

I'm simply applying your own argument against you. To wit:

"I realize all of the reasons people can tell themselves why they shouldn't go, that only demonstrates a lack of conviction."

*Which can easily be reworded to read: "I realize all of the reasons people can tell themselves why they shouldn't pay $50.00 to join the Mars Society (or some other pro-space exploration/colonization org), that only demonstrates a lack of conviction."

Ouch, ouch...

--Cindy

clark · 2003-08-12 11:00:25

. I'm simply pointing out that some (or rather, many) people are tied down with kids, school schedules, in-laws (some of whom are elderly, ill, require extra family attention), have paltry paid time off plans with their employers and save that time back for when the kids are ill or they themselves are ill...c'mon, Clark.

I understand Cindy. This is at least 6-9 months off. If it's important enough to people, they can make arrangments to attend to these issues. It's just a matter of saying, "this is important enough".

Is it?

You- very strongly implied that space advocates who wouldn't (regardless of reasons) attend the March you're pitching must lack convictions.

If you believe that mankind needs to gets it's collective arse in gear, if you have such a 'conviction', then you should be willing to do what is neccessary to make it happen. But that's only if you strongly believe in this idea. I will fully accept that most people don't believe strongly, or strongly enough, to make the effort. But if someone does, then they should be willing to do what is neccessary. That's the point I'm making.

Yeah, I understand people can't uproot their lives. There are circumstances that preclude involvement. However, Rosa Parks had circumstances too- but she marched. She marched because she believed in what she was marching for.

Are we all afraid of finding out that the desire isn't there? Is a fantaasy, undisturbed, better?

If that is so, then your not having forked over $50.00 for membership does (by -your- own line of argument) imply that you also lack conviction.

Then let me disspell any implications, one way or the other. I have no confidence in the Mars Society in achieving any of their goals.

Palomar · 2003-08-12 11:23:47

Clark: "If you believe that mankind needs to gets it's collective arse in gear..."

*Ah, but mankind isn't a collective. Never has been, probably never will be.

--"Almost nothing great has ever been done in the world except by the genius and firmness of a single man combating the prejudices of the multitude." [Voltaire] --

Clark: "Then let me disspell any implications, one way or the other. I have no confidence in the Mars Society in achieving any of their goals."

*Thanks for your honesty (even if I do disagree with you).

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-08-12 11:25:16

Ahh, a clark-Cindy fest. How cute. I can't read the rest of this now, but I'll be back later to see what's happened.

But clark, there are probably billions of people who want to go into space. There are probably millions of Americans who want to go to space right this minute. But these people tend to be realistic. Unless they can be shown that their efforts would lead to a timeframe that would actually benefit them, they could give a shit less. Most people are worrying about paying the bills, etc.

clark · 2003-08-12 11:26:39

"A witty saying proves nothing."-Voltaire

Unless they can be shown that their efforts would lead to a timeframe that would actually benefit them, they could give a shit less. Most people are worrying about paying the bills, etc.

We can be back on the moon by 2015. We can send people to Mars by 2020.

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