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Announcement: As a reader of NewMars forum, we have opportunities for you to assist with technical discussions in several initiatives underway. NewMars needs volunteers with appropriate education, skills, talent, motivation and generosity of spirit as a highly valued member. Write to newmarsmember * gmail.com to tell us about your ability's to help contribute to NewMars and become a registered member.

#126 2021-03-13 10:42:35

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,401

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

Smart people to be given a place to sound off on ideas and to work them through even if its not there's…

Sounds good....thumbs up

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#127 2021-03-13 11:31:55

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,676

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For SpaceNut re #126

Thanks for your endorsement!  I'm hoping kbd512 checks in this weekend.  He sometimes has to be a way for a day or mroe.

(th)

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#128 2021-03-13 12:05:23

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,737

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

tahanson43206,

Looks good to me.  I approve.

Since you already sent the username / password to him, is there anything else you need me to do?

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#129 2021-03-13 14:37:15

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,676

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For kbd512 re #128

Thank you for giving the all-clear for Noah!

To clarify ... I have not yet sent the new ID to Noah.  In handling the application for Captain [CaptJTorriani]... I got out of sync with the process I'd prefer to follow.

With your approval in Post #128, I'll take care of that now.

Edit#1: The new ID was sent to Noah.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-03-13 16:41:27)

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#130 2021-03-17 08:20:26

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 272

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For SpaceNut and all ... Noah has asked some questions about how to participate in the forum ...

In the past, we (forum members) have provided guidance on a case by case (question by question) basis.

For SpaceNut ... did we ever write a post that anyone can find easily with tips?  There may be one, but I've forgotten it by now.

SearchTerm:Tips for Noah

Here is a part of my reply to Noah today:

Tips for Forum

Noah's grandfather was born in 1933

Ach! 1933!  then he is older than Oldfart1939!  Oldfart1939 is a retired PhD who may be found in the forum.

If you search for his posts, and look for "chemistry" you may find he is knowledgeable of chemistry.

Thank you for asking about protocol in the forum

First, we try to NOT quote entire posts .;.. you will see some older members who persist in quoting entire messages.

The courteous format is to say: For (person) re Post ####

You will see I do that, and some others.  Some members do not attempt to make a connection at all, but simply reply as though there were a magic way for readers to make the connection.

However, let's take this a step at a time ... have you chosen an index level where your new topic should go?

Hopefully this will be a long lasting topic that will record your progress in education, early career, and perhaps even later career, so choosing correctly will be worth a delay.

Once you choose your Index level, you simply click on that index level.

You will see a list of topics created by others.  Off to the right you will see "Post new topic"

Choose your words here carefully.  We cannot change them once they are created.  We cannot delete them either.

We can delete posts.

I bring this up because if you create a topic, you have the right to manage it.

If someone posts in your topic, and you do not want the post in your topic, you can ask me or SpaceNut or kbd512 to move it.

For architecture, you have several choices to consider.  Take your time.

As a reminder, My Hacienda is a concept to assemble people who want to design a community capable of living at a high level, and able to sustain itself.  This is a lofty goal indeed, but Mars is an opportunity to work toward it.

You will find My Hacienda in Martian Politics and Economy

To find the list of plots, search for [searchterm:] and [:plotmaster] author: tahanson43206

Also, be sure to select [posts] or you will be given the topic.

What I would like to happen is for a separate person to claim each of the 7800 plots, and to decide upon a specialization.

In your case, architecture may be the specialization to begin with, but you may decide to specialize further.


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#131 2021-03-18 07:23:54

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 272

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For SpaceNut ... just JYI ... Noah is thinking about creating a topic for his interests going forward.

Today I offered suggestions for how to research possible topics by using the Search tool with various parameters.

I forgot to include the use of * (asterisk) to help to pull strings out of longer format words.

My hope is that Noah will create a topic that will stand the test of time, and serve as an anchor for his education in the near term, and later on as an anchor for career developments.

With any luck, the topic chosen will attract contributions by existing forum members, as well as new members as we bring them in.

(th)


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#132 2021-03-20 06:51:51

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 272

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For SpaceNut re NewMarsMember * gmail.com

There were no new messages today.

For SpaceNut ... please continue thinking about how we might be able to develop the work done by GW Johnson into a course of self-education leading to Certification as a Spacecraft Navigator.  This might seem like an ambitious goal, but the work has already been done to capture the knowledge required.  It will take a while to complete whatever steps are needed, but there is plenty of time, and there are plenty of potential candidates alive on the planet today.

For all ... the NewMarsMember * gmail.com account is available for application for membership in the forum.

To save time, applicants can find the two short essays requested of applications in Post #2 of the Recruiting topic.

Existing members are invited to nominate candidates who you think would be interested in helping with the numerous projects started and not finished on the forum.

Foremost among these is the Large Ship project, which is in need of substantial assistance in almost every phase of development.

The competition for the Large Ship  is not yet visible, but there is at least one ongoing effort to build a rotating habitat in LEO. 

The Ballistic Delivery initiative is looking solid (to me at least) and it is awaiting an individual who would lead a team to make it happen.

An immediate goal is to build a landing pad for SpaceX starships.

There is an interesting suggestion of building a lander to examine water in a glacier on Mars.  The launch window is just over a year away, so if that is going to happen work needs to start immediately.

The outlines of a system to produce mechanical force for operation of machinery on Mars, using Carbon Monoxide and Oxygen as the energy carrier, are in place and ready for development into a viable and long lasting business on Mars.

(th)


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#133 2021-03-21 09:05:00

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,401

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

Thanks for the project list reminder.

NewMarsMember wrote:

For SpaceNut Member Portal report

There were no new messages this morning.

For all: This portal is available for anyone who might wish to participate in forum projects.

Open opportunities include:

Large Ship - RobertDyck

Asteroid mining - Calliban

Carbon Monoxide / Oxygen engine design for Mars - SpaceNut

Nuclear reactors of various kinds - Calliban

Mars probe to look for bacteria in glaciers - Quaoar

Ballistic Delivery of non-perishable supplies to customers on Mars

Related to above .. construction of landing pad on Mars for SpaceX vehicles

The entire suite of opportunities organized in My Hacienda

My Hacienda is an attempt to assemble 7,800 individual leaders interested in specializing in one or more of the disciplines that would be needed to achieve a level 1 civilization on Mars.  The idea is to create this network on Earth, and to transport it intact to Mars.

Other forum members are invited to post projects I have overlooked in this topic.

(th)

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#134 2021-03-21 10:00:54

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,676

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For SpaceNut re Projects ...

Thanks for noting the list of possible activities for readers of the forum who are not yet members ...

An important (to me for sure) project not included in the list from NewMarsMember is development of an educational sequence that will lead to Certification as a Spacecraft Navigator, based upon the lifetime of work of GW Johnson.

If there is a young person (or an older one brave enough to try learning at the proposed level) interested in helping, we can most definitely use some help developing the online curriculum for the program.  What I have in mind is building upon the knowledge encapsulated in the spreadsheets that GW Johnson has made available, supported by extensive documentation.

(th)

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#135 2021-03-22 08:27:02

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 272

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For SpaceNut re Noah's new topic

Noah is thinking about "Settlement Design" as a topic ... we looked at where the word "settlement" is present in topics, and found three in Human Missions and one in Civilization and Culture.  I've recommended Civilization and Culture as a better fit for Noah's new topic.

Human Missions is an index level that by implication is devoted to individual space missions that last for a period of time and then end.

As I understand Noah's intentions, it is to create a topic that will last a lifetime, as it accumulates the ideas and wisdom of numerous individuals and organizations.

The 2020 Mars Convention videos include a number devoted to the 1,000,000 persons city challenge.  It is possible that Noah may be able to invite some of the presenters (or some of the team members) to join him in building up an understanding of what it will take to make plans for and actually build a long lasting settlement.

(th)


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#136 2021-03-23 08:01:15

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 272

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For SpaceNut ... Noah is still thinking about how to start Settlement Design in the forum ... here is a portion of our conversation today ...

6:40 AM (3 hours ago)
to me

Hello tahanson43206

Yes, I used a template from the book "Mars" by Sparrow and modified it a bit. Surely you as a Mars expert have noticed that it is not the original landscape.
-
Civilization and culture is probably the right way, although I see the topic of settlement design more in the scientific-technical area.
Settlement design is about an integration of different themes. At the end is an attachment about a general plan. I would like to hear your opinion from the point of view of content and language.
-
I have seen a lot of designs from the 2021 Mars Conference, some have interesting approaches.
On a side note, what do you think about Mars One? Do you think it was a scam or just inability to deliver?

Best regards,

Noah
Attachments area
   
Noah
Hi Noah! Thank you for your reply, for explanation of the Mars image, for the Settlement Design pdf, and for the interesting and challenging question you have posed.

The design of the NewMars forum is unlikely to be changed.  Change is possible but very difficult (for us) because the administration of the Mars Society does not have time to spend on our part of their very large operation.

I have multiple thoughts about how to approach this ... I hope you will be patient as we try to work out the best way forward.

First of all, your proposal would cover more than one of the existing NewMars Index level categories.

It would include Civilization and Culture, because those will be shaped by the design of the settlement itself.

It would include Science and Technology, since those are both required to actually build the settlement.

It would include Human Missions, because for a long time, humans will be the agents of construction for the project, and for a long time, humans will be "on a mission" to build the settlement.

You ** could ** (if you were so bold) open a new topic in each of those index levels, and post your pdf in the first post of the new topics.  you will want to place the image in imgur.com, and enter the link to the image (for bbcode) into the first post.

I'd like to see this process move from discussion to the first post as soon as you are comfortable making the leap.

I will post this reply in the Recruiting topic as a record of our conversation.

***

PS ... did you notice the report of a settlement plan I posted in #948 of the Housekeeping topic?

That work is (apparently) quite advanced.

Regarding Mars One ... that was an example of the early failures we discussed a day or so ago.  The people did not fail. They learned from the failure of the attempt.

(th)


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#137 2021-03-23 19:06:06

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,401

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

Any settlement or colony that goes to stay needs the basics to sustains life in a harsh environment. So the elements are cosmetic to appearance after the numbers are run to keep life possible.

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#138 2021-03-23 20:08:09

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,676

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For SpaceNut re #137

Noah is looking for guidance about where to put the new topic.  I've recommended simultaneous and parallel topics in three Index levels ...

Civilization and Culture ...
Science and Technology
Human Missions

The reason for my recommendation is that those who created the structure of the forum did not (apparently) anticipate a topic like "Settlement Design" that would fit in more than one Index level.

Noah has not yet acted on this  ...

There is still time for you to provide some guidance.

(th)

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#139 2021-03-24 17:26:03

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,401

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

The real issue for man on Mars is what ship to payload to start as if to large we are cautioned against its landing safely and if to small you are not staying without pre-loading the site.
Next up is your choice questions for the stay in what is being done is brought with you, recycled from past and present to what you need to stay. Of course you then are choosing how much you might make, what choices to send or you are going for all from Mars of which each choice looks back to how you are getting there.

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#140 2021-03-24 18:13:25

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,676

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For SpaceNut re #139 .... is there a reason your analysis omits Ballistic Delivery?

Ballistic Delivery ** should ** allow for greatly reduced costs and greatly accelerated progress on infrastructure development.

Aside from that, the question I've asked (on Noah's behalf) is if you have guidance for creating topics to go with his planned theme of Settlement Design.

The planning of shipments would flow from definition of the design to be constructed.

In other words, if you are a military commander and you are planning to build a base in a foreign country, you decide what you want to build, and then work backwards to see what supplies, equipment and personnel are needed to perform the desired tasks.

The contents of the first shipload of supplies and personnel would flow from that backwards analysis.

(th)

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#141 2021-03-25 07:17:47

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 272

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

We heard again from Noah.  He has exams this week, so will defer action for the forum.

He asked about how to post images, so i reviewed the procedure again.

He also indicated an interest in creating a topic for his "Settlement Design" interest.

Because the layout of the NewMars forum index does not have a single topic suitable for such a broad theme, it is possible (though at this point not certain) for Noah to create multiple topics with the same title.

In an earlier post in this topic, I reviewed the three options I see:

1) Civilization and Culture because the design of a settlement will shape both
2) Science and Technology because both will be key to success of any settlement design
3) Human Missions because for many years, it is a series of human missions (with assistance of automation) that will build any settlement.

However, what Noah chooses to do is up to him, so i am looking forward to seeing what happens.

(th)


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#142 2021-03-25 09:36:39

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,676

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

The email conversation with Noah reported in Post #141 inspired me to think a bit more about the current recruiting campaign.

Thanks to the leadership of SpaceNut, we have freed up 4455 ID's from the spammers for use by new members.

Thanks to SpaceNut and kbd512, we have a minimal threshold for new members to qualify for consideration for membership.  See Post #2 of the Recruiting topic if you are curious to see them.

However, I am looking for members who are good for the long haul.  We have an opportunity to bring together people from around the planet who will be among the settlers of Mars in coming decades, or (more likely) will be among the thousands who will provide the actual settlers/pioneers with goods and services to insure their success.

In his correspondence, Noah reminded me he is thinking about "basics".

Mastery of the basics is essential, for the Mars project to succeed.  It takes time (education, trial and error, trial and success) to acquire mastery of the basics, so we should anticipate that new members are going to be busy with education and learning activities for many years, before they begin to show signs of capability.

Never-the-less, mastery of basics is NOT sufficient!  There must be vision of where all the basics will be applied, or all that effort is wasted.

This forum is populated with a greater proportion of visionary individuals than is true of the population as a whole.  This is understandable,  since members (prior to the present era) were all self-selected and (presumably) inspired by Dr. Zubrin, either directly or indirectly.

The existing (legacy) members of the forum have an opportunity to help to guide (in some cases) or inspire (in others).

I am looking to fill the 7,800 slots of My Hacienda with individuals interested in taking leadership positions over a span of years or perhaps decades, to assemble the talent and ability needed to create a first tier "civilization" on Mars, or anywhere on Earth, for that matter.

(th)

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#143 2021-03-31 07:32:08

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 272

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

The mail box at NewMarsMember * gmail.com was empty this morning.

There are numerous opportunities to assist with ongoing initiatives in NewMars forums, or you can start your own.

Read Post #2 of this topic, and write to the NewMarsMember * gmail.com account.

(th)


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#144 2021-04-03 06:14:33

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 272

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

Today's NewMarsMember inbox included a message from Noah! He has completed exams.  I hope that means with success, but the results will most likely not be available immediately.  He is returning to the question of how to set up a topic (or multiple interlocking topics) in the forum.

(th)


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#145 2021-04-03 09:37:45

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,401

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

The big thing about topics is to make the first post of it concise to the framework of discusion that is it's target for responses to it.
The outline of subtopic posts could also be constructed within that post so as to keep drift of topic from occurring.
Coming back to the topic to maintain focus when others are out of the box will also help to keep it on track as you have shown does work to a degree.
Above all what do you want to accomplish or solve from the inputs of others as you can not be narrow minded and think that its your way or nothing with in the discusion. Words can and do have multiple meanings and it has and always will be why the topics can drift.

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#146 2021-04-04 11:49:41

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 272

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

for SpaceNut and All forum members looking forward to arriving members...

I am happy (once again) to report that Noah sent a question to NewMarsMember @ gmail.com.

He showed images of things he tried that didn't work, for which I applaud his initiative, and the ** very ** efficient way he found to help me to understand the problem.  Hopefully my reply will be helpful.

From my point of view, there is absolutely ** no ** hurry about this ... I have attempted to show Noah that the forum has the potential to become a framework for shaping and enhancing his career, so taking great care now at the beginning will surely help to insure success in the years ahead.

At this point, from my perspective, Noah is searching for bedrock upon which to build. 

(th)

Last edited by NewMarsMember (2021-04-04 11:50:12)


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#147 2021-04-05 05:58:47

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,676

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For SpaceNut ... Noah is on the verge of beginning his adventure with the forum!  He has chosen to create only one new topic.

Please note that Noah will be approaching you (when he is ready) about the possibility of creating a new index level.  I am hoping you will listen/read his argument (whatever they may be) in favor of a new index level.  I've explained to Noah that to obtain such a change will require time investment by the IT Director of the Mars Society, and since his time is limited, we want to be absolutely certain we have our ducks in a row before we make such a request.

I tried to offer an example of what it would be like for Noah to ask for a new index level as a new member with only one post to his credit.  I think it would be similar to his asking Angela Merkel to install an new street light in his town.    Such a request would amuse the secretary for Dr. Merkel, but it would not result in success installing a new traffic light.

(th)

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#148 2021-04-05 18:40:12

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,401

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

email sent for exploring the chances for a new topic folder area for colonization and settlement.
Such things as the My hacienda and Elon musk dream mars would fall under the topics, possibly a toe hold or foot hold would go in there.
Topics of voids and Louis come to mind as well for what are other example author's.

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#149 2021-04-05 18:57:07

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,676

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

For SpaceNut re #148

Bold!

Best wishes for success!

(th)

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#150 2021-04-06 06:48:00

NewMarsMember
Member
Registered: 2019-02-17
Posts: 272

Re: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:

Noah has completed his transition from NewMarsMember * gmail.com.

This portal is now open to others who may wish to join Noah in building out the new Settlement Design topic, or who are interested in helping RobertDyck, Calliban, SpaceNut, GW Johnson or any of the existing members with ongoing projects.

This portal is also open to those who may wish to establish an entirely new initiative, as Noah has just done.

The Administrators and Moderators will assist as much as possible with support services as needed.

This is a good time to thank the Mars Society, and in particular IT Director James Burk, for ongoing support of this forum.

(th)


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