Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

Void · 2021-03-09 19:40:49

I guess I thought if articles come out that seem to help understand Mars, and especially early Mars, it would be nice to list them here.
The moderators can do as they like however, of course.

https://www.space.com/ancient-mars-inte … y-warm-wet
Quote:

Ancient Mars' warm spells probably didn't last long
Ancient Mars was warm and wet only intermittently, a new study suggests.
Although the Martian surface is bone-dry today, it's clear that liquid water flowed across it billions of years ago. The planet is scored by river channels, and ancient lakebeds lurk on the floors of multiple craters — including Gale and Jezero, which are currently being explored by NASA's Curiosity and Perseverance rovers, respectively.
But it remains unclear, and a topic of considerable scientific debate, what ancient Mars was really like. Was the planet warm and wet continuously long ago, or has it pretty much always been frosty, with only sporadic balmy stretches allowing transient water flows?
The search for life on Mars: A photo time line
Click here for more Space.com videos...
CLOSE
A new study bolsters the latter view, suggesting that it took dramatic events to warm Mars' cold heart, and that such ancient deviations never lasted long.
“Mars was intermittently warmed when its atmospheric composition was altered by the input of gases derived from volcanism and meteorite impactors," co-author Joel Hurowitz, a geoscientist at Stony Brook University in New York, said in a statement.
These warm spells "allowed water to flow across the surface, forming rivers and lakes and the rocks and minerals we associate with water on Mars,” Hurowitz said.
The new study, led by Robin Wordsworth of Harvard University, presents a novel climate model of ancient Mars. The model takes into account a variety of factors, including the effects of volcanic eruptions, which poured greenhouse gases into the Martian air, and the escape of hydrogen from the atmosphere into space.

That hydrogen escape, driven by the solar wind, ramped up dramatically after Mars lost its protective global magnetic field. By about 3.7 billion years ago, the once-thick Martian atmosphere was just 1% as dense as that of present-day Earth, and the era of rivers and lakes on the Red Planet's surface was coming to an end.
The new study, which was published online today (March 8) in the journal Nature Geoscience, helps flesh out that era and the Red Planet's life-hosting potential. For example, it suggests that "wet" Mars was still very cold, with average annual surface temperatures below minus 28 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 33 degrees Celsius).
Click here for more Space.com videos...
"The dynamic history of Martian environments proposed here suggests opportunities for the emergence of life during warm, wet intervals when reducing conditions would have favored prebiotic chemistry, but also challenges for the persistence of surface life in the face of frequent and, through time, lengthening intervals of mainly cold and dry oxidizing environments," Wordsworth and his colleagues wrote in the new study.
"Reducing conditions" refers to an atmosphere in which oxidation — the stripping of electrons from atoms and molecules — is prevented or minimized. By contrast, oxidation is prevalent in "oxidizing environments."
Oxygen is a commonly proposed biosignature — a possible sign of life for which to search in the atmospheres of alien planets. Interestingly, the new model predicts that Mars had an oxygen-rich atmosphere for long stretches "in the middle period of its history without requiring the presence of life, indicating that O2 detection alone can be a 'false positive' for life in some circumstances," the researchers wrote in the new study.
Mike Wall is the author of "Out There" (Grand Central Publishing, 2018; illustrated by Karl Tate), a book about the search for alien life. Follow him on Twitter @michaeldwall. Follow us on Twitter @Spacedotcom or Facebook.
Join our Space Forums to keep talking space on the latest missions, night sky and more! And if you have a news tip, correction or comment, let us know at: community@space.com.

louis · 2021-03-09 20:52:09

They're guessing! Not science - just interpretationism, an entirely different discipline!

Modelling is the curse of the modern age. That's why we have 1001 cosmological models and nonsense determining our response to Covid.

Void wrote:

I guess I thought if articles come out that seem to help understand Mars, and especially early Mars, it would be nice to list them here.
The moderators can do as they like however, of course.
https://www.space.com/ancient-mars-inte … y-warm-wet
Quote:
Ancient Mars' warm spells probably didn't last long
Ancient Mars was warm and wet only intermittently, a new study suggests.
Although the Martian surface is bone-dry today, it's clear that liquid water flowed across it billions of years ago. The planet is scored by river channels, and ancient lakebeds lurk on the floors of multiple craters — including Gale and Jezero, which are currently being explored by NASA's Curiosity and Perseverance rovers, respectively.
But it remains unclear, and a topic of considerable scientific debate, what ancient Mars was really like. Was the planet warm and wet continuously long ago, or has it pretty much always been frosty, with only sporadic balmy stretches allowing transient water flows?
The search for life on Mars: A photo time line
Click here for more Space.com videos...
CLOSE
A new study bolsters the latter view, suggesting that it took dramatic events to warm Mars' cold heart, and that such ancient deviations never lasted long.
“Mars was intermittently warmed when its atmospheric composition was altered by the input of gases derived from volcanism and meteorite impactors," co-author Joel Hurowitz, a geoscientist at Stony Brook University in New York, said in a statement.
These warm spells "allowed water to flow across the surface, forming rivers and lakes and the rocks and minerals we associate with water on Mars,” Hurowitz said.
The new study, led by Robin Wordsworth of Harvard University, presents a novel climate model of ancient Mars. The model takes into account a variety of factors, including the effects of volcanic eruptions, which poured greenhouse gases into the Martian air, and the escape of hydrogen from the atmosphere into space.

That hydrogen escape, driven by the solar wind, ramped up dramatically after Mars lost its protective global magnetic field. By about 3.7 billion years ago, the once-thick Martian atmosphere was just 1% as dense as that of present-day Earth, and the era of rivers and lakes on the Red Planet's surface was coming to an end.
The new study, which was published online today (March 8) in the journal Nature Geoscience, helps flesh out that era and the Red Planet's life-hosting potential. For example, it suggests that "wet" Mars was still very cold, with average annual surface temperatures below minus 28 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 33 degrees Celsius).
Click here for more Space.com videos...
"The dynamic history of Martian environments proposed here suggests opportunities for the emergence of life during warm, wet intervals when reducing conditions would have favored prebiotic chemistry, but also challenges for the persistence of surface life in the face of frequent and, through time, lengthening intervals of mainly cold and dry oxidizing environments," Wordsworth and his colleagues wrote in the new study.
"Reducing conditions" refers to an atmosphere in which oxidation — the stripping of electrons from atoms and molecules — is prevented or minimized. By contrast, oxidation is prevalent in "oxidizing environments."
Oxygen is a commonly proposed biosignature — a possible sign of life for which to search in the atmospheres of alien planets. Interestingly, the new model predicts that Mars had an oxygen-rich atmosphere for long stretches "in the middle period of its history without requiring the presence of life, indicating that O2 detection alone can be a 'false positive' for life in some circumstances," the researchers wrote in the new study.
Mike Wall is the author of "Out There" (Grand Central Publishing, 2018; illustrated by Karl Tate), a book about the search for alien life. Follow him on Twitter @michaeldwall. Follow us on Twitter @Spacedotcom or Facebook.
Join our Space Forums to keep talking space on the latest missions, night sky and more! And if you have a news tip, correction or comment, let us know at: community@space.com.

Void · 2021-03-10 07:41:46

Yes Louis, but first you must estimate what the questions should be, then you can more properly seek improved information/answers.

Here is another very nice article:
Quote:

Rivers Flowed Forth on Mars Until 1 Billion Years Ago
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/ … 0on%20Mars.

So, the question here is what might have been the circumstances for the last major river flows?

I am going to speculate that the axis should have been tilted so the the poles and equator got about as much warming from the sun.

Then perhaps an interval of significant volcanism, or an impactor.

The combination might greenhouse Mars enough that Dry Ice condensate could not form on the surface.

Then I suggest that if the behavior of water Ice/Liquid/Vapor/Condensates were correct you might have a situation where due to low atmospheric pressure, fogs and clouds would evaporate into clear vapor very easily on the sun side, but fogs and clouds would form rapidly on the dark side, as the air pressure being low, the temperatures would be low.

My name for that is a "Cloud Diode". It would permit the entry of sunlight to the surface and so a warming, and yet on the night side, a blanket of opaque fogs and clouds, which would reduce the radiation of heat into space.

-----

So, if we can get a clear picture of how these river intervals could occur, we may be able to cause it to happen again. We of course can not hope to change the axis of Mars, so the other factors would need to be used.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2021-03-10 07:49:15)

Void · 2021-03-10 09:00:15

I have materials on this topic:
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9819

Which could suggest how we might equalize the polar and equatorial temperatures.

A shading orbital ring could cool the Equator.

Musk's Flash bombs might warm the poles, or;

A sun synchronous population might microwave the polar deposits. The first goal to stop CO2 from condensing anywhere on the planet, and so increasing the average pressure from ~5.5 mBar to 11 mBar.

With the influence of equalization, and with greenhouse gasses, including water vapor, it might be that a Cloud Diode situation might be stimulated.

Void · 2021-03-14 16:16:54

https://www.universetoday.com/148861/ma … r-quickly/

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I like this article in particular because it names the "Hygropause".
The Hygropause for Mars is more variable than for Earth, and it often seems to allow water vapor to rise into high warm locations, where the sun's radiation can split it into it's components.
Where I feel the article goes wrong is in their assertion that "Mars lost it's atmosphere quitkly". They imply that it went into space, most of it, and yet we still have a remnant of it that is on average on the surface close to the tripple point of water in pressure.
They mention ice, and water vapor being pulled off of it. Hydrogen is easily lost then, and presumably Oxygen as well. I guess that if Mars has an electrical field, as Venus does, that that then helps push the Oxygen away.
In the case of Venus, that electric field is supposed to exist because, the atmosphere is very dry. The Mars atmosphere is dry also but of course of a lesser number of molecules, and colder on average than that of Venus. But I am supposing a contribution from an electric field, I do not have measured proof of it.
In the next post I intend to include information about burried fossil ice caps. So, burial of potential atmospheric substances on Mars is a real thing. I cannot prove that CO2 and N2 are burried. I cannot say if it exists as CO2 ice as well, or perhaps Clathrates, or bonded to minerals.
It is sensible that as the atmosphere of Mars thinned, Mars cooled. If it was at a point where rain or snow could still happen, and streams and rivers run, then atmosphere could be locked into the sediments.
Mars is more porous than Earth, so there is a lot more room for Clathrates and normal ices in the subsurface. Perhaps it is all water ice only, but it seems reasonable that some atmophere has been locked into the subsurface.
I make the note, that if Mars rapidly lost it's atmosphere to space, and none to the subsurface, then I don't see why the atmosphere would not be gone entirely, unless there is a reservoir in the subsurface, that somehow replenishes the atmosphere to about the pressure it is now.
Enough..........

Last edited by Void (2021-03-16 12:07:57)

Void · 2021-03-16 12:09:31

For the query: "Buried Martian polar ice cap":

https://phys.org/news/2019-05-massive-m … indow.html

https://qrius.com/an-astounding-volume- … ed-planet/

Quote:

Preliminary studies have suggested that the water if thawed could submerge the entirety of the planet in a depth of at least 1.5m.

This ice is down a mile or two under the surface. It is in my mind that perhaps CO2 and maybe even N2 could be included, perhaps as clathrate. No proof, just a possibility.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2021-03-16 12:16:04)

Void · 2021-03-16 13:01:00

------
I am very satisfied with the following new article that showed up on the BBC News.
What a coincidence, but a good one.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56400227
Quote:

Mars: Vast amount of water may be locked up on planet
By Paul Rincon
Science editor, BBC News website
Published3 hours ago
Share
Related Topics
Lunar and Planetary Science Conference
Gale Crater on Mars
IMAGE COPYRIGHTNASA/JPL-CALTECH/MSSS
image captionThe Curiosity rover has found extensive evidence of hydrated minerals at Mars' Gale Crater
It's a longstanding mystery: how Mars lost the water that flowed across its surface billions of years ago.
Scientists now think they have an answer: much of it became trapped in the outer layer of Mars - its crust.
They argue that a vast amount of Mars' ancient water is locked up in minerals below the surface of the Red Planet.
The findings have been discussed at the 52nd Lunar and Planetary Science Conference and are published in Science journal.
The study used measurements gathered from Mars-orbiting spacecraft, rovers and meteorites.
Researchers then developed a computer simulation of how water was lost over time.
More than four billion years ago, Mars was warmer and wetter - possibly with a thicker atmosphere. Water coursed through rivers, cutting channels in the rock, and pooled in impact craters.
Mars could have held enough water to cover the entire surface in a layer measuring between 100m and one kilometre deep.
But by around a billion years later Mars had made a transition to the colder, desolate planet we recognise today.
"We have known for a long time that Mars was much wetter in its early history. But, the exact fate of that water has been an ongoing problem," said Dr Peter Grindrod from London's Natural History Museum, who was not involved with the latest study.
"We already know from studies of the atmosphere of Mars that some of that water was lost to space, and ice deposits on and just below the surface tell us that some water became frozen."
Escape to space
Earth has a magnetic shield, or magnetosphere, that prevents the atmosphere from escaping. But Mars' magnetic shield is weak and could have allowed the elemental constituents of water to escape from the planet.
But the rate at which hydrogen - one chemical constituent of water - escapes from that atmosphere today suggests this mechanism can't explain where all the water went.
Eva Linghan Scheller and colleagues from the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) in Pasadena now think they have come up with the answer.
The results of their computer modelling work show that between 30% and 99% of Mars' initial water was incorporated into minerals and buried in the planet's crust.
Co-author Prof Bethany Ehlmann, also from from Caltech, explained that, "by studying data from Mars missions, It became clear that it was common - and not rare - to find evidence of water alteration".
She continued: "When the crust becomes altered, it takes water - like liquid water - and sequesters it in a hydrated mineral that has water in its structure so that it is effectively trapped."
The authors suggest that most of the water was lost between about 4.1 and 3.7 billion years ago - during a stretch of Martian history known as the Noachian Period.
Martian climate change
Dr Grindrod added: "What this new study tells us is that a lot of that water, possibly the majority, could have actually been locked into the rocks on Mars. This process of hydration is capable of storing large volumes of water, up to an amount equivalent to a global layer a kilometre deep."
"Although most of the liquid water had probably disappeared after about one and a half billion years after Mars formed, we see evidence of hydrated minerals at the surface today, in areas like Jezero Crater, which is currently being explored by the Perseverance rover.
"The early climate of Mars remains one of the most important topics in planetary science, and this study will help our understanding of the processes responsible for water loss."
Follow Paul on Twitter.

So, OK, some went into space, some exists as ice deposits in the poles or under dirt, some is bonded to minerals.

So, then in doing terraforming, there needs to be a plug on what goes into space, or at least it is preferred.
Also, keeping running water that stirs regolith sediments, should be kept to a minimum.

Otherwise new atmosphere generated or liberated from the polar caps, or regolith will be pulled out of the atmosphere

Exactly how to accomplish that is an open question, that will need research and planning.

Done

Last edited by Void (2021-03-16 13:05:22)

Void · 2021-03-17 11:16:20

------
Mars ice sheets???
https://phys.org/news/2020-08-early-mar … ivers.html
Quote:

Early Mars was covered in ice sheets, not flowing rivers: study

Well, the Earth was supposed by some to have had "Snowball Earth" situations, so why not also Mars?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth
I don't entirely buy into a total snowball Earth situation. I anticipate that there could be moderation in some places due to catabatic winds, and depressions that would appear in ice due to sublimation. So some places of mercy would likely be found in evaporation sinkholes perhaps going all the way down to the ocean floor i places. A local intense greenhouse effect in such places.
But if we can conceive of such for Earth, then why not for Mars on occasion, due to a dim sun in it's early existance, and also axis changes.
But I also suppose that rare events would produce a short era of rains, as per a period of large volcanic activity, and perhaps an impactor event of some kind.
In my opinion, in general Mars should have had a more unstable climate than Earth, so we could expect periods of icy cold, and also periods of rains.
Speculation: ~Where Earth might be 9 times out of 10 rainy, perhaps Mars would be 9 times out of 10 icy. I don't know that, but such a pattern could explain what is being discovered on Mars.
Done.

Void · 2021-03-18 08:57:28

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Well, from Phys.org, "Early Mars climate was intermittently warm".
Well, perhaps true. We are needing to understand what Mars was able to do in the past to better understand what it is possible that it might be stimulated to do in our future. Our, I suppose being the human race, as I expect a dirt nap not too long from now.
https://phys.org/news/2021-03-early-mar … ently.html
So, if we can identify what Mars might have done in it's past, we might try to pick an instance that we might hope to promote in the future. So, measuring the reality of the past of Mars is important in the notion that some manipulation of Mars might be done, and actually produce a desired result.
Mars likely had significant input of Nitrogen. I think it unlikely to reporoduce that without impactors from far out in the solar system. Of course if burried deposits could be mined, perhaps there migh be a method from that. But for now I presume that we have the Nitrogen on Mars that is there, and the primary input gasses that could be increased for Mars would be Oxygen, presumably from water, and some odd greenhouse gasses. Otherwise to make the upper atmosphere "Wet", water vapor. Unless an Ozone layer can be developed, then the water does not exist for long, but it split into Hydrogen and Oxygen.
To retain the H20 vapors, Oxygen, and Hydrogen, it appears that an artificial magnetic field is of some hope.
An interesting hope for that is that Skyhook technology might be able to scoop up magnetically retained H20 vapors, Oxygen and Hydrogen. No proof, but a direction to look towards. Such resources recovered to orbit, may be very helpful.
Done.

Void · 2021-03-25 11:47:50

https://scitechdaily.com/up-to-99-of-ma … theorized/
Quote:

Up to 99% of Mars’ Water May Still Be Trapped in Planet’s Crust – Not Lost to Space As Long Theorized

Similar to other articles about it but sometimes one may have a detail the other did not have.

Done.

Calliban · 2021-03-25 14:32:00

Void wrote:

https://scitechdaily.com/up-to-99-of-ma … theorized/
Quote:
Up to 99% of Mars’ Water May Still Be Trapped in Planet’s Crust – Not Lost to Space As Long Theorized
Similar to other articles about it but sometimes one may have a detail the other did not have.
Done.

A similar mechanism may have been responsible for removing nitrogen from the planet's atmosphere. Photolysis of CO2 breaks it down into CO and atomic oxygen. Atomic oxygen then attacks nitrogen to form NO and NO2, which are stable in the highly oxidised Martian atmosphere. NO2 then reacts with perchlorate compounds in the soil, forming nitronium perchlorate. This is extremely hygroscopic, and upon absorbing water, it forms nitric acid. Nitric acid would rapidly react with oxides in the regolith producing stable nitrate salts. In the absence of any reducing agents in the highly oxidised Martian crust, huge amounts of nitrogen may have been sequestered in this way. Once nitrogen is trapped in this way, there is not effective mechanism for returning it to the atmosphere.

The good news is that if we can heat up the Martian crust and reactivate the Martian hydrosphere, the nitrates will enter solution and algae and blue-green bacteria will rapidly return the trapped nitrogen to the atmosphere. The bad news is that heating up kilometres of crustal rock would take millenia, even if we could heat the surface of Mars to Earth average temperatures.

Last edited by Calliban (2021-03-25 14:35:41)

Void · 2021-03-25 18:32:33

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Important dialog Callaban.
In the dreams of some of our people, Mars will become a second Earth to some degree.
This will need to be updated to the Earth that will be. With lower cost transport to LEO from the surface of the Earth, apparently on the horrizon, then we can anticipate that in orbit of Earth will be:
-Solar power plants
-Microgravity factories
-Synthetic gravity machines.
Why should the above be excluded from the New Mars?
We can Musk and Robert Zubrin the surface of Mars, but in my opinion we should Jeff Bezos the hill sphere of Mars.
The ISS has given us some valuable things apparently. I used to think it was a dud. Apparentlly some aspects of space sickness can be treated fairly well. Bone loss and Muscle loss. So, then if you have a large microgravity agricultural area, and torroidal synthedtic gravity machines, it looks better for the habitation of the hill sphere of Mars.
And apparently agriculture is possible in microgravity, so you could have minimal structures to perform agriculture in orbit. And it is my opinion that by shining the light into these structures, you may also regulate to prevent overheating by dumping heat through heat engines, to the universe.
For those agricultural areas, radiation could still be a problem, but if you used magnetic shielding, and gave humans a transit vehicle which would have mass shielding, things might be just fine.
Suppose a Mars where 50% of the people lived on the surface, and 50% in orbit.
Alternately 95%/5%.
Alternately 5%/95%.
This would be determined by the path of least resistance. Whatever is more efficient/effective.
And then their can be skyhooks. If you have a skyhook that can snag Martian atmosphere and put it into an agricultural enclosure in orbit, then you can "Grow" Oxygen for Starships.
The Methane might be created on the surface of Mars, or depending on what is inside the two moons, perhaps even in orbit. On the other hand if you have CO2 from the Martian atmosphere, it seems to me that Hydrogen could be brought up from the Martian surface. And so then you would have propellant sources in orbit. No dust storms, no seasonal short days.
It may be that in orbit toxins would be less of a problem.
There are so many tricks that could be invented....
How about energy storage in orbit by heating a block of stone to incandescent, and having thermos bottle type protection. Virtually 24/7 power for a heat engine. The heat most likely comming from concentrating mirrors. It might even be possible to turn that into a light to heat locations on Mars????
As for the Hydrosphere, I would warm it up with energy from space, starting at the polar ice caps. Ice apparently will filter out at least some of the UV. And I can see where possibly we would not allow true winters in the polar nights. Just shine reflected light to the polar ice caps, and possibly reject the UV.
While it would be true that the polar ice cap ice would tend to vaporize, as the CO2 in the ice caps was eliminated, then Mars can have true snowfalls. And much of that snow would fall on or around the polar ice cap areas.
Even ice water is much warmer than the Martian regolith. I would anticipate that eventually 1/3 of the Martian surface could be covered by ice covered reservoirs.
I have a notion about an artificial magnetic field for Mars. It could be pulsed. Probably with a DC with an AC component in it. The results desired would be to protect the atmosphere, but also to induce AC eddy currents into magnetic and conductive materials. So to heat the regolith.
But you are right, it will take a long long time to warm up the regolith, if that is desired. Such a pulsed field would have to produce useful results in order to be justified.
A little more fantastic would be to have mirror arrays outside of the orbit of Mars. Depending on the relative orbital time periods, these might be timed to warm a polar ice cap in winter. Otherwise they might process asteroid materials, or be used to push spacecraft, perhaps with photons. A bit of a concern that they sould not be used for war.
My opinion is that the Martian world can be rich, and a wonderfull place to settle to, it does not have to be like a Siberian labor camp.
Send Jeff Bezos to Mars.

Done.

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#1 2021-03-09 19:40:49

Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

#2 2021-03-09 20:52:09

Re: Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

#3 2021-03-10 07:41:46

Re: Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

#4 2021-03-10 09:00:15

Re: Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

#5 2021-03-14 16:16:54

Re: Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

#6 2021-03-16 12:09:31

Re: Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

#7 2021-03-16 13:01:00

Re: Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

#8 2021-03-17 11:16:20

Re: Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

#9 2021-03-18 08:57:28

Re: Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

#10 2021-03-25 11:47:50

Re: Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

#11 2021-03-25 14:32:00

Re: Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

#12 2021-03-25 18:32:33

Re: Articles about how Mars works and used to work.

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