New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: This forum is accepting new registrations by emailing newmarsmember * gmail.com become a registered member. Read the Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topic in Meta New Mars for other information for this process.

#1 2012-07-28 15:28:18

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Robots becoming useful...

I think by the time we get to Mars robots could be really useful.  I was struck by how far Asimo has developed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zul8ACjZ … re=related

I can imagine a Mars-adapted Asimo being v. useful on the surface doing things like lifting rocks, or clearing them out of the way; cleaning PV panels; cleaning vehicles...maybe even being used in farm and industrial habs.

What do you think?


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#2 2012-07-28 17:16:19

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,178

Re: Robots becoming useful...

Dialup to slow to watch the youtube but google Asimo Mars Robots and here is...
Honda's ASIMO (Advanced Step in Innovative Mobility), : A robot that can walk on two legs like a person....
Asimo can walk up and down stairs and recognize faces and voices.

asimo.jpg

http://www.airventure.org/news/2011/110630_asimo.html
http://www.glideidea.com/2012/05/24/asi … -mobility/
http://www.popsci.com/technology/articl … eanup-work

Of course Nasa is working on
http://robonaut.jsc.nasa.gov/

Offline

#3 2012-07-28 18:39:02

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Robots becoming useful...

SpaceNut wrote:

Dialup to slow to watch the youtube but google Asimo Mars Robots and here is...
Honda's ASIMO (Advanced Step in Innovative Mobility), : A robot that can walk on two legs like a person....
Asimo can walk up and down stairs and recognize faces and voices.

http://www.airventure.org/news/2011/images/asimo.jpg

http://www.airventure.org/news/2011/110630_asimo.html
http://www.glideidea.com/2012/05/24/asi … -mobility/
http://www.popsci.com/technology/articl … eanup-work

Of course Nasa is working on
http://robonaut.jsc.nasa.gov/

Strangely, I'd never heard about Robonaut before - sounds like it's already happening then.  But I do wonder about NASA sometimes - wouldn't they get more bangs for their bucks if they maybe co-operated with JAXA and Honda on a project.

Anyway, whichever way you look at it, I think we can see robots could have a key role to play, not as a substitute for humans but as an extension of their presence on Mars.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#4 2012-07-28 19:18:09

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,178

Re: Robots becoming useful...

Robonaut is an extention of the Dextre project which was intented to be use as the robotic component for the Hubble Space Telescope rescue mission back in 2004.
Sometimes I do wonder about Nasa but it would seem that the budget crunch would not be possible when looking to partner up on projects....

Offline

#5 2012-09-06 07:49:22

RGClark
Member
From: Philadelphia, PA
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 733
Website

Re: Robots becoming useful...

SpaceNut wrote:

Dialup to slow to watch the youtube but google Asimo Mars Robots and here is...
Honda's ASIMO (Advanced Step in Innovative Mobility), : A robot that can walk on two legs like a person....
Asimo can walk up and down stairs and recognize faces and voices.

http://www.airventure.org/news/2011/images/asimo.jpg

http://www.airventure.org/news/2011/110630_asimo.html
http://www.glideidea.com/2012/05/24/asi … -mobility/
http://www.popsci.com/technology/articl … eanup-work

Of course Nasa is working on
http://robonaut.jsc.nasa.gov/

Thanks for that. Pretty cool. Keep in mind this too:

Project M Concept Animation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us3NyJZQ … re=related


  Bob Clark


Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):

      “Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”

Offline

#6 2012-09-07 02:17:06

RGClark
Member
From: Philadelphia, PA
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 733
Website

Re: Robots becoming useful...

RGClark wrote:
SpaceNut wrote:

Dialup to slow to watch the youtube but google Asimo Mars Robots and here is...
Honda's ASIMO (Advanced Step in Innovative Mobility), : A robot that can walk on two legs like a person....
Asimo can walk up and down stairs and recognize faces and voices.
http://www.airventure.org/news/2011/images/asimo.jpg
http://www.airventure.org/news/2011/110630_asimo.html
http://www.glideidea.com/2012/05/24/asi … -mobility/
http://www.popsci.com/technology/articl … eanup-work
Of course Nasa is working on
http://robonaut.jsc.nasa.gov/

Thanks for that. Pretty cool. Keep in mind this too:
Project M Concept Animation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us3NyJZQ … re=related

  Bob Clark

For a walking robot as for "Project M" there is also this:

HRP-4C Miim's Human-like Walking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbAqw0s … r_embedded


  Robert Clark


Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):

      “Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”

Offline

#7 2012-11-11 08:01:09

RGClark
Member
From: Philadelphia, PA
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 733
Website

Re: Robots becoming useful...

RGClark wrote:

..
For a walking robot as for "Project M" there is also this:

HRP-4C Miim's Human-like Walking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbAqw0s … r_embedded

  DARPA is sponsoring new research on robotics to enable more capable robots, for instance being able to walk over uneven terrain with obstacles:

Start Your Mad Science: DARPA's Humanoid Robot Challenge.

The Pentagon research arm wants you to build a robot that can drive a car, use hand tools, open doors, and perform other functions formerly reserved for us puny humans.

By Michael Belfiore
October 25, 2012 4:00 PM
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol … e-14095951


   Bob Clark


Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):

      “Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”

Offline

#8 2012-11-17 18:56:54

JoshNH4H
Member
From: Pullman, WA
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,551
Website

Re: Robots becoming useful...

One consideration with robots is that their battery life is often quite short.  This tends to be true especially for bipedal robots.  Another consideration is that unspecialized robots are often quite heavy and expensive despite very mild performance abilities and strength.  I think that for most specific tasks, it makes more sense to design a machine and build out for a specific task.  This can often be done either with lower mass, higher efficiency, or more often all three.  A great example is moving rocks or cleaning loius's blasted PV panels ( wink ).  A bulldozer would be able to clear much more area more efficiently and conceivably at the same mass as an ASIMO unit.  Likewise, a PV cleaner needed not mass more than twenty kilos, if that.


-Josh

Offline

#9 2012-12-02 14:31:15

Number04
Member
From: Calgary Alberta Canada
Registered: 2002-09-24
Posts: 162

Re: Robots becoming useful...

I think a tractor robot would be much more useful. Something like this:
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Tract … ct_Ecology
Having a rover base that could dig, drill, push or trench depending on the attachment would prove more useful than one that’s walking around using the same tools a human would. That being said, the torso like NASA is looking at could be very useful as a lab assistant.

Offline

#10 2013-11-17 09:46:32

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Robots becoming useful...

Tractor robots aren't very good at scaling cliff walls, they sort of have the same problems that people in wheelchairs do. What do you think of the Atlas Robot by Darpa by the way?

Offline

#11 2013-12-12 00:17:44

RGClark
Member
From: Philadelphia, PA
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 733
Website

Re: Robots becoming useful...

RGClark wrote:
RGClark wrote:

..
For a walking robot as for "Project M" there is also this:

HRP-4C Miim's Human-like Walking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbAqw0s … r_embedded

  DARPA is sponsoring new research on robotics to enable more capable robots, for instance being able to walk over uneven terrain with obstacles:

Start Your Mad Science: DARPA's Humanoid Robot Challenge.

The Pentagon research arm wants you to build a robot that can drive a car, use hand tools, open doors, and perform other functions formerly reserved for us puny humans.

By Michael Belfiore
October 25, 2012 4:00 PM
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol … e-14095951


NASA's entrant to DARPA's humanoid robot challenge coming up this month:

NASA's New Robot Looks Like Iron Man, May Save Your Life One Day.
http://gizmodo.com/nasas-new-robot-look … 1480601271

See also the link on that page to Boston Dynamic's agile Atlas robot entrant.

Space writer Michael Belfiore discusses the robotics challenge to be held Dec. 20 to Dec. 21 here:

DARPA Robotics Challenge reality check.
Posted by Michael Belfiore on Dec 5, 2013
http://michaelbelfiore.com/2013/12/darp … check.html


   Bob Clark

Last edited by RGClark (2013-12-12 00:20:02)


Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):

      “Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”

Offline

#12 2013-12-20 10:21:42

RGClark
Member
From: Philadelphia, PA
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 733
Website

Re: Robots becoming useful...

DARPA Robotics Challenge Trials Live Broadcast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwWm3HaDbnQ


  Bob Clark


Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):

      “Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”

Offline

#13 2013-12-21 09:09:52

RGClark
Member
From: Philadelphia, PA
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 733
Website

Re: Robots becoming useful...

Results of day one of the robotic competition, show we still have a ways to go before we can have autonomous robots that can perform these tasks.  Still here's the live broadcast of day two of the competition:

DARPA Robotics Challenge Trials Live Broadcast - Day Two.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o4B2R5kzw4

   Bob Clark


Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):

      “Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”

Offline

#14 2013-12-27 10:28:27

RGClark
Member
From: Philadelphia, PA
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 733
Website

Re: Robots becoming useful...

Some of the robots actually did better than I expected. The competition was won by the Japanese SCHAFT robot. This video shows the robot undergoing preliminary trials:

SCHAFT : DARPA Robotics Challenge 8 Tasks + Special Walking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diaZFIUBMBQ

The video though is highly sped up. While the SCHAFT robot during the actual competition was able to complete the tasks it was at a much slower speed:

[DARPA Robotics Challenge]SCHAFT S-ONE "Ladder" Trial.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZj8A-JX4m8

Still, my expectation is within a couple of years the tasks will be completable at more human like speeds by such capable robots as SCHAFT.


  Bob Clark


Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):

      “Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”

Offline

#15 2020-03-29 17:19:16

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,178

Re: Robots becoming useful...

tahanson43206 wrote:

Public policy is often significant in shaping private behavior.  In the quotation given below (provided by Google), it is clear that at least ** some ** politicians are starting to think about teleoperation as a ** real thing **.

Image result for teleoperation manufacturers
Waymo, General Motors' Cruise, Nutonomy, Zoox, Drive.ai, Uber, and Nissan are all quietly developing teleoperation systems. California law says vehicles without drivers inside them must allow for remote control. Florida, Arizona, Oregon, and Washington are considering similar rules.Mar 26, 2019

To the previously cited examples of teleoperation given in this and other topics in this forum, we can add remote operation of wheeled transportation vehicles.

A relative gave me a bit of a setback today, as I was trying to anticipate how telepresence/teleoperation will appear in US retail enterprise.  The relative is planning to buy some paint, and the particular store where the paint is available is counted as "essential" in the state where the relative lives.  At first, I thought that this would be easy to solve ... the relative would simply call the company, pay for the paint, and pick it up from the loading dock for safety of everyone concerned.  However, the complication is that the paint desired must be blended to match the existing paint scheme, and that would currently require a human store employee on premise at the same time as the customer.

However, even ** that ** can be dealt with by using telepresence/teleoperation judiciously.  In the case of a product that the customer must see before purchase, the store employee could be working from home, with a suitable mechanical/electronic representative on site.  The store employee could help the customer select the specific shade needed, mix the components from in-store stock, confirm the shade with the customer on site, and package the complete order, at which point the customer would complete the financial transaction by smart phone and carry the purchase out of the store.

There has been some discussion of economics having a bearing on how activities are carried out from now forward.  I expect that safety of employees and customers will override any and all previous considerations.  Whatever is needed to secure the safety of employees and customers is what will be put in place.

(th)

The current state of AI controlled vehicles as little more than an app that takes the input address and the destination and uses gps to control the decision making of how to drive from point a to b... its the human error that makes these system cause crashes as they can not predict what the human will do around such a computer driven vehicle.

Offline

#16 2020-03-30 08:27:15

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,841

Re: Robots becoming useful...

For SpaceNut re this topic ...

Thanks for bringing this topic back to the Active list.   It deserves support by the community.

To support millions of workers operating complex equipment from communications facilities at home, or in walking-distance hubs, rapid development of much more capable telerobots are needed.

I noticed the use of the term telerobots in recent posts, and learned that the term is evolving in English to contain the combined meaning of telepresence and teleoperation.

Search Results
Web results
Telerobotics - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Telerobotics
Telerobotics is the area of robotics concerned with the control of semi-autonomous robots from a distance, chiefly using Wireless network (like Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, the Deep Space Network, and similar) or tethered connections. It is a combination of two major subfields, teleoperation and telepresence.
Teleoperation · Interfaces · Applications · Telepresence and ...

It would be interesting and helpful if forum members could update this topic with examples of progress toward practical, mass produced telerobotics equipment.

If you are a forum reader, and would be able to make a contribution, please consider registering.  The process is not difficult.  Thousands of SPAM ID's are registered in the forum User list. 

Edit#1: I just posted a request to the contact form of a large computer manufacture.  i asked to be notified when the company has Teleoperation equipment available for general use.  The potential business opportunity for a suitably innovative entrepreneur is significant.  Suitable equipment would be able to support activities that a human would do on site.  Examples of Telerobotics for surgery are already reported in the literature.  I'm looking for Telerobotics for stacking cans of green beans on shelves, or picking them in fields.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-03-30 10:33:36)

Offline

#17 2020-07-12 15:37:59

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,178

Re: Robots becoming useful...

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut re #203

I am delighted to see a subtopic that blooms in "Technology Updates" moved (transplanted) to a prepared environment!   Congratulations on your management of the forum!

Here is an report on new technology that I am seeing as a significant missed opportunity!

Bearing in mind that Tyson Foods is owned by investors from many nations, it is probably not surprising that the direction chosen was to move toward pure robotic workers to cut meat, but I see this as a significant missed opportunity to give humans the opportunity to take part in the process by operation of teleperation equipment.

Business
Tyson Foods is ramping up development of robots that can cut meat in response to coronavirus outbreaks in meatpacking plants
insider@insider.com (Bethany Biron)
July 11, 2020 2:12 PM

That snippet showed up in the Yahoo News Feed this morning.

For SpaceNut ... a reasonable place for you to transplant that item is Poverty in America topic. 

There are new (and challenging) jobs for robot designers, for both hardware and software, and there will be new (and challenging) jobs for robot installers and maintainers, but as with teller machines replacing human bank tellers, the jobs folks have today will soon be gone.

The challenge for entrepreneurs today and for ever, is to think of ways of using unskilled humans to make a reasonable return on investment.

(th)

This is the grey area of good for mankind but not so much for the jobs that men have. I am assuming that some AI would be used with sensors to move the meat into position before its knife wielding would start and the end is food for man.

Offline

#18 2020-09-26 09:04:26

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,841

Re: Robots becoming useful...

This is from a tech newsletter that showed up in the email recently.

Choosing the right robot
Get practical advice for picking the ideal robot to meet your cost and capability requirements.

Download this white paper to explore which type of robot — articulated, cartesian, SCARA, delta or cobot — fits your needs from both capability and cost standpoints.
READ MORE

The My Hacienda community is going to be heavily invested in robotic devices, much as modern homes on Earth are populated with appliances of many kinds, and increasingly with sophisticated devices that are a step up from what is usually meant by the term "appliance".

9th)

Offline

#19 2020-10-12 17:32:55

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,178

Re: Robots becoming useful...

Helping robots avoid collisions

Something that we need for the chickens onboard the large vehicle we are designing to take us to mars....

I am reminded with the Walmart aisle cleaning unit that was posted before with the additional height and sensors needed to avoid people and in this case the chickens plus any eggs....

Offline

#20 2020-10-12 18:26:23

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,841

Re: Robots becoming useful...

For SpaceNut re #19

Thanks for the "Helping robots" link!   The author captured a ** lot ** of the 40 year (or so) history of the effort to solve the robot movement problem in a "real time" way.  The researcher's insight that making the software more and more complex was the wrong path is the first I've heard of it.  The details of how the service provided works were NOT given in the article.  The fact that it ** does ** work is supported by the testimonial of a setup activity taking 1 day instead of 15.

I came away from my first reading with a sense that at the moment, the achievement is limited to static situations, such as a work cell for a robot assembly robot, or perhaps a package sorting robot in a distribution center.   The roving chickens in the "Chickens" topic would be an order of magnitude more challenging (I would think).

(th)

Offline

#21 2020-10-24 17:40:24

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,841

Re: Robots becoming useful...

This post is about the "Spot" robot.

The video at the link below shows Spot responding to commands held by a tablet operator, and ** also ** making useful decisions to avoid obstacles and to manage difficult terrain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k

What I am looking for and hoping for is a VR implementation of Spot.

If a member of the forum discovers such a video, please post it.

A number of "Spot" devices have been sold (according to reports I've seen) so hopefully at least one of the purchasers is working on a VR control system.

(th)

Offline

#22 2020-12-16 21:47:54

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,841

Re: Robots becoming useful...

There are lots of topics containing the word "robot" ...

Louis created this one with enough wiggle room so this post might fit ...

The article at the link below is a review of the history, current status and future prospects of Boston Robotics, which was recently the subject of an investment move by Hyundai ... I gather from the article that there is still a regulatory requirement to be satisfied, since this is an American company with a major foreign ownership stake.

Spot, the robot dog, is moving into production ...

A warehouse robot able to move boxes is coming along nicely ...

Research is still under way in several areas.

However, Hyundai has apparently shown interest in a mobile robot with wheels.

All in all, prospects for continued achievement by this company look favorable, to my eye.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/foll … 05730.html

(th)

Offline

#23 2021-02-28 12:14:24

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,841

Re: Robots becoming useful...

Here's another encouraging report on robotics …

https://www.yahoo.com/news/robotics-tea … 00603.html

This one is about how a group of students, led by a creative teacher with industry support, set up an automated watering system.

There are in existence automated watering systems … this one is a step above the crowd by including sensory feedback to try to provide enough water but not waste any.

A system like this will ** certainly ** be needed on Mars, where water will be far more precious than it is on Earth.

(th)

Offline

#24 2021-02-28 20:10:13

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,841

Re: Robots becoming useful...

Here's another report on developments in robotics ... this time the focus is agriculture ...

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/farm … 15037.html

"A farm is going to need different kinds of robots," says Prof Chowdhary. "Some of them are going to be very small... others are going to be big, perhaps even as big as combine harvester. There will be an autonomous system that is co-ordinating this team of robots, telling them what they need to do in order to get different tasks done."

In addition to robots, Prof Chowdhary says drones will be increasingly used.

While automation of farming on Earth is likely to be important for survival of the population of Earth, it will be ** critical ** for survival of the population of Mars.

(th)

Offline

#25 2021-03-01 10:25:35

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,841

Re: Robots becoming useful...

Here's another robots story ... this one is specifically about designs for use in space ...

Space startup Gitai raises $17.1M to help build the robotic workforce of commercial space
Darrell Etherington
Sun, February 28, 2021, 8:00 PM·3 min read

Japanese space startup Gitai has raised a $17.1 million funding round, a Series B financing for the robotics startup. This new funding will be used for hiring, as well as funding the development and execution of an on-orbit demonstration mission for the company's robotic technology, which will show its efficacy in performing in-space satellite servicing work. That mission is currently set to take place in 2023.

Gitai will also be staffing up in the U.S., specifically, as it seeks to expand its stateside presence in a bid to attract more business from that market.

The link available was too convoluted ... hopefully anyone interested can ask Google

(th)

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB