Housekeeping

SpaceNut · 2021-02-12 10:10:12

Comm ports are still in the serial communications and are part of the os plug n play still...

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-12 13:47:17

For SpaceNut re #801

It is possible you are right about current system boards, but I haven't checked them recently.

The system board I'm using to build 64 bit systems was manufactured several years ago. I bought 10 of them so I would be able to sustain the hardware configuration for a while. Only two of the boards are in service, and they've been reliable for a number of years already.

Next time I'm visiting the local computer store I'll try to remember to ask about comm ports on current system boards. It is entirely possible they are still there, but every bit of surface of a system board is valuable, so at some point I would expect manufacturers to discontinue allocating that space.

***
In the mean time, Amazon delivered the replacement USB-Serial cables today .... I ordered one of each (female and male) but received two male. That could be because the staff person pulling merchandise might very well not have known the difference. I figure having two can't hurt, because I'm a big believer in backup. The critical question is whether the drivers CD will load on the Windows 7 system, and I expect to find that out later today.

***
Because the topic has transitioned to page 33, I'll use this post as the anchor for today's batch.

I'm thinking of trying to reach 1999 today ... that target is potentially in reach, if energy levels hold up that long.

Nice to see today's post by Calliban! That ** really ** adds momentum to the Ballistic Delivery topic. I'm increasingly confident this is a business developing before our very eyes! And Calliban (with coaching from GW Johnson) is at the heart of it!
***
The set of ID's for today is in the Bans table. I'm taking a break, and then hope to complete tomorrow's batch through 1999!
***
The set of ID's through 1999 is in the Ban's table.

The most recent addition to the 2000 series is "TestID02080"

The schedule calls for resuming work here: [2068 2021-02-17] .... I'll take the 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th off to see if I can set up automation.

There are several mini-milestones to be achieved:

1) Prove the new USB-Serial cable will work with Windows 7
2) Prove the 232key program on Windows 7 can accept data prepared and shipped from the Dell laptop
3) Establish if the 232Key Pro program can deliver control characters to the target window on the Win 7 machine
4) Complete the program to generate the input to the 232key program. This program will run on the laptop.
5) Test all components to make sure they can actually function together to update one Not Verified ID

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-02-12 15:40:47)

SpaceNut · 2021-02-12 17:33:53

A query email to James about a dropbox and use of marspedia for related topic hosting of them has been made.

Checking banned found email for 01963 was in error and corrected it
unbanned 01959 - 01999 and move to user list some how I had missed to move 01922 as I notice the page numbers did not end and start with the sequence and fixed it as well so that it was in the user list.

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-12 18:08:09

For SpaceNut re #803

First, thanks for taking care of the ID's through 1999 today!

I am surprised 1963 had a problem, because I don't recall any dropped balls at that point, but thanks for clearing it up.

Thanks too, for finding 1922 and fixing it!

You have a break coming up! All that work you did on the 2000 series gives me a few days to work on the automation.

And! Here is a mini-milestone to report .... Amazon delivered the new cables today, so I tested them on different systems:

On XP (Pentium III) ... Success! (I was concerned the new drivers might not work on a system that old)

On Win 7 (64 bits) .. Success! ( This was the system that refused to recognize the earlier drivers)

Tomorrow I'm planning to test the laptop connection with the Null Modem. That is still an unknown and potential point of failure.

Meanwhile, the program to generate a flow of commands and data to update Not Verified ID's is past the GUI development stage.

The next phase there is to define variables and to write procedures to execute when buttons are activated.

FYI ... the count of Registered Users is now up to 17,250, with 19,000+ as the target.

Second! Thanks for writing Mr. Burk ... this is a situation where it would be best to secure approval before we proceed.

Hopefully, if there is adjustment needed to meet Mars Society requirements or expectations, we'll be given the opportunity to work them into the initiative to set up a formal education activity in this part of the Mars Society infrastructure.

Edit #1: Still no reply from SmartLux re the capabilities of 232key Pro ... Hopefully that program can deliver control characters into the target window as well as alphameric characters, which I have already confirmed with the free version.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-02-12 18:12:55)

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-12 22:03:16

For SpaceNut .... here is an update on the ID Recovery automation investigation...

The new USB-Serial cable is working with Windows 7
However, the 232key program is NOT working.
I downloaded a serial port monitor to confirm the hardware (cables and Null Modem) are working.
While investigating possible terminal programs for Windows 7, I stumbled across a reference to a utility for handicapped persons.

https://aacinstitute.org/wp-content/upl … ACKeys.zip

I was amazed to see this program work right out of the ... I can't say box ... right after installation.

The keys entered on the laptop showed up immediately on Notepad, and Ctrl/M caused a carriage return.

I'll investigate further tomorrow.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-02-13 10:03:22

That sounds good for implementation for other forums with this same difficulty of converting useless user accounts to something more.

So far we are on target with the forum cleanup thou I have got to get to the shifting artifacts and stuff thats not valid in the corrupted posts and we are not doing badly for just being volunteers to the cause..

On another note I got back a positive for the drop box to marspedia idea to be a central depository for all of the spreadsheets related to current knowledge but thats about it so far as it needs funding to bring forward. This could also include with permission GW's website content pages where it could be saved.

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-13 10:26:21

For SpaceNut re #806

Thank you for the great news that you have received positive feedback for permanent storage.

Before I proceed, I'd like to be sure you are willing to go forward with the free 2 Gb minimal Dropbox basic service.

Upon confirmation you'd like to proceed, I'll open the new account with the email NewMarsMember * gmail.com

FYI ... in setting up the account, we have a number of access options.

In particular, I recommend making the Administrators and Moderators currently active in the forum fully authorized members of the account.

In other words, these members would have the ability to add, delete or modify content.

This level of trust matches the level already earned and demonstrated in the forum.

For an individual author such as GW Johnson or Calliban, I would propose the permissions would be comparable to those already in place in the forum.

Each member can create posts, edit them and delete them. It seems to me comparable permissions should be available in the repository.

However, at ** this ** point, I have forgotten details about how Dropbox works, so I'll have to go back to refresh my memory.

Regarding the Wiki ... Do you have any details on how we can access that? I'm pretty sure there is an administrator for that part of the Mars Society infrastructure. It would help ** greatly ** if that person were to request admission to this forum, to improve communication.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-13 10:31:53

For SpaceNut re #806

This is a separate reply about the ID Recovery automation initiative.

I am encouraged to see your forward thinking about how this process might be useful to other non-profit organizations. This is added incentive to move ahead with all deliberate speed, although the incentive to NOT have to process 22 accounts per day for the next 3 years is a strong incentive all by itself.

I find a big hole in my day, NOT having to process those 22 ID's !!!

Work on the automation will proceed entirely on the software side, now that the hardware is confirmed.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-13 14:51:49

For SpaceNut re ID Recovery ID initiative. This text is coming to you in a convoluted way !!¡ It starts out on a wireless keyboard that is "talking" to a USB radio in a Dell laptop running Windows XP. The input from the keyboard is being fed into Hyperterminal, which is connected to Com1: Com1: is connected via RS232 cable to a Null Modem. On the other end of the Null Modem is a USB-Serial cable made by a company which I ** think ** I reported in an earlier post. The cable is plugged into a USB port on a 64 bit machine running Windows 7.

On Windows 7, a service called AACKeys is running as a 32 bit application. It is configured to work with Com3:, which is the virtual communications port set up for the USB-Serial cable. Data from the USB port is conveyed to this browser window by the running service.

I have experimented with the service, and found that it will stop running if I try venturing too far from its comfort zone.

In addition, it will allow some input but ignores it.

The control keys that appear to work reliably include:

Forward Tab (reverse tab is ignored)
Backspace (this is reliable if only one backspace is entered at a time)
Enter key works reliably

Left-Arrow causes a hangup. However, in experimenting with the FluxBB browser, I've discovered that the Left Arrow on the browser form can be used to perform the Left-Arrow function with the Enter key, that I am used to doing with a mouse click.

The one control I would really like is Control/L but I'm going to attempt to send this post before I attempt it.

Edit#1 .. now I'm back using the Windows 7 keyboard. The Ctrl/L command worked ... I was amazed!

However, I fell prey to habit and actuated the left arrow key on the Dell laptop wireless keyboard, which caused the AACKeys service to hang up.

However, it ** does ** appear that the limitations of the AACKeys program are not sufficient to prevent design of a script that can run on the laptop to perform recovery of one ID, and potentially more than one.

My next test will be to see if I can complete processing of one ID using the Rube Goldberg contraption, and trying to avoid touching the keys that cause lockup.

Edit#2: The queries for Not Verified ID's and for TestID's are copied to the Win 7 machine, ready for a "live" (manual) test of AACKeys tomorrow. One quirk of this Rube Goldberg set up is that tabs have to be entered twice.

Edit#3: Entered two ID's manually to try to get a sense of what is needed for the test of automation tomorrow.

Lacking controls like the arrow keys, it's going to be necessary to send more text than would otherwise be necessary, but the machines won't care

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-02-13 22:09:33)

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-14 07:09:25

For SpaceNut .... SmartLux sent another reply to my inquiry about their 232key product. Here is my reply:

Hi !! Thanks for your reply and for the suggestion of AutoHotkey! I did find AACKeys, which is for handicapped input via RS232. It seems to work, but it is limited to ASCII characters (apparently). I will have to send query text to the target, instead of using the Up-Arrow to retrieve it from the browser cache (for example). There is another issue that concerns me, and your Pro version might be able to handle it. I would like to receive feedback from the browser when it has completed processing of one ID. We have a supply of spammer created ID's we are converting for use by real people. At the end of the manual process, I send a query that shows the completed ID in the Bans table, where the Administrator will find it for final touchup. I remain interested in 232key Pro, and look forward to seeing a script that ** works ** so I don't have to go through a learning curve by trial and error. Thanks again for your reply! (th)

***
My plan for today is to simulate an automated session on the Win 7, using the limited capabilities of AACKeys.

In parallel, I'm thinking along the lines of a hybrid solution to feed data from the laptop.

It should be possible to write the program that will run on the laptop so it reads a text script that can be adapted to the particular situation at hand.

It even occurred to me that Powershell might be able to handle this, although I haven't worked with Powershell scripts, so don't know how sophisticated the can become. My guess is that they can become quite sophisticated, because I understand they are used for automation of updates to massive numbers of servers at corporations and government agencies.

However, for now, I'll proceed along the path of least learning, in order to try to have something working by the 17th.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-14 07:17:09

For SpaceNut ...

Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia entry on AutoHotkey ...

AutoHotkey scripts can be used to launch programs, open documents, emulate keystrokes, Unicode characters, and mouse clicks and movements.[8] AutoHotkey scripts can also assign, retrieve, and manipulate variables, run loops and manipulate windows, files, and folders. These commands can be triggered by a hotkey, such as a script that would open an internet browser whenever the user presses Ctrl+Alt+I on the keyboard. Keyboard keys can also be remapped or disabled, such that pressing Ctrl+N, for example, might result in the active window receiving an en dash (–), or nothing at all.[9] AutoHotkey also allows for "hotstrings" that will automatically replace certain text as it is typed; the most typical use for hotstrings is expanding abbreviations, such as assigning the string "btw" to produce the text "by the way" when typed, or the text "%o" to produce "percentage of".[10] Further, some scripts can be initiated automatically at computer startup and need not interact with the keyboard at all, perhaps performing file manipulation at a set interval.[11]
More complex tasks can be achieved with custom data entry forms (GUI windows), working with the system registry, or using the Windows API by calling functions from DLLs. The scripts can be compiled into an executable file that can be run on other computers that do not have AutoHotkey installed. The source code is in C++ and can be compiled with Visual Studio Express.
Memory access through pointers is allowed just as in C.[12]

That appears to be a remarkably powerful tool ... later in the document the Wikipedia article reports that AutoHotkey has been used to create malware, and thus is (incorrectly) sometimes identified as the culprit, by less sophisticated virus detection programs.

This program is probably worth investigating!

Edit#1: After reading more of the Wikipedia entry, it is painfully obvious I am trying to re-invent the wheel for the 7,323rd time.

If there is anyone out there is NewMars forum-land who wants to take a look at AutoHotkey, the problem to be solved is given in detail earlier in this topic.

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 14#p176314

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-02-14 07:51:41)

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-14 12:57:13

For SpaceNut re ID Recovery

There are a few new ID's in the bans table ...

They are there because I ran through the update procedure using 232key and the associated (limited) command set multiple times.

A quirk of the system is that some fields (but not all) require two tab characters, compared to just one when a keyboard is delivering the characters directly.

This could be because 232key is written to assist handicapped persons, and perhaps the programmers wanted to be sure the user really meant to send a tab.

I'm satisfied that the procedure will work, so now I'll concentrate on preparing the software to generate the commands.

As reported earlier, I am thinking of writing a procedure that reads a text file (a script) and then produces output needed for a particular web site situation. That way, the script can be changed for a different situation.

There are (indicated to be) a great number of already coded solutions to this problem, but all of them would require an investment of time to learn how to use them.

If there is someone in NewMars forum-land who would care to investigate one or more of the alternatives, I'd definitely be interested.

In the mean time, I'll try to have the new program and script file ready for testing on or before the 17th.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-02-14 17:34:30

Sounds good.... id's 02081 - 02085 have been unbanned and moved to user list....

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-15 07:12:40

For SpaceNut re #813 plus snow ...

Thanks for polishing the brass on those five ID's! They look shiny and new in the Ready-to-Go list!

***
I've been planning to devote some time to writing the little program that will feed data to the Win 7 machine.

Yesterday (as reported earlier) I ran though the exercise multiple times, trying to nail down the counts of various activities.

The output of that was a draft of a script ... my current thinking is to design the script so it can contain plenty of comments, by making key words in Column 1 the only ones that are examined by the file parser.

Commands I'm thinking about right now include:

Tab:n
Enter:n
Text:abcd
Backspace:n
Ctrl/l:n
Edit#2) Adding:
Number:n (perhaps counter:n ... haven't decided)
Wait:n This is needed to give the server time to respond to a Submit

It is possible I've forgotten a command, but those above cover all that I thought of so far that will pass through the limited gateway of the AACKeys program.

All lines in the script that start with a space or tab in Column 1 of each line would be ignored as comments.

Edit#1: Snow .... we are expecting snow over the next 24 hours. I visited multiple stores yesterday, and found all the snowblowers out of stock, and everything else related to snow removal out of stock. I'll have to do my civic duty with a well waxed snow shovel once again!

Edit#3: Snow ... This is added to the post just for "The Record" ... I live on a standard sized city block, and I was curious to see how long it would take to push a snow shovel around the block. The first attempt took 22 minutes, and that includes time spent in detail work on my neighbor's walk. She's the emergency room doctor who owns a Tesla, mentioned in previous posts. There's no way ** she's ** going to shovel the walk, even if she were at home, which is seldom the case. Admittedly the snow cover is light so far, and several of the neighbors had been out already, which made their cleared patches easy going.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-02-15 09:05:16)

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-15 16:07:08

For SpaceNut re ID Recovery automation ...

Here is a (reasonably accurate) version of the script, as it would be fed into the program to generate a stream of characters to the Win 7:

#Updated 2021/02/15 after testing using 232Keys
#Notes for Script to Update One ID using 232Keys
# Valid commands:
# Ctrl/L Sends Control “El” once to cause focus to move to web page address line
# Tab:n Sends Forward Tab as many times as indicated by “n”
# Enter:n Sends Enter (Ctrl/M) as many times as indicated by “n”
# Text:abc Sends text as provided to right of colon
# Wait:n Causes pause for “n” milliseconds to allow remote serve to process request
# Backspace Causes a single backspace character to be transmitted
# Number:n Causes generation of a number with leading zeros to the total given by “n”
# Starting configuration:
# Screen 1: Open to forum main page <<== Set to New Bans page after completion of one ID
# Screen 2: Open to forum main page <<== use for verification of production via Ctrl/F5
# On Screen 1: <<== this is the screen to be updated by 232Keys using laptop input
# Position the screen to the empty Moderator Bans page. This can be done by manually
# processing one ID, leaving the empty Bans page as the final step.
# Prepare the script by editing the two lines that contain today’s date
# 1) Send Ctrl/L This will cause focus to move to the address line of the browser page
Ctrl/L
# 2) Transmit query for Admin to show Not Verified users
Text:(text of query)
# Program sends query text out RS232 port
# 2) Send Enter to cause the query to be performed, and wait 5 seconds
Enter:1
Wait:5000
# 3) To reach the first item in the results, send tabs [Estimated this will need 40 tabs)
Tab:40
# 4) With the first username highlighted, send Enter and wait 5 seconds
Enter:1
Wait:5000
# 5) Note result: a page appears showing Essentials for the selected ID
# The topmost field on the form is to be replaced with a new, computed value
# 6) To get to the topmost field, tab [42] times from the opening position on the form
Tab:42
# The first field highlighted with the first tab is the title display [New Mars Forums]
# 7) compute value to be entered: “TestID” plus string “#####”
Text:TestID
Number:5
# Where the numeric portion is computed from the numeric value stored in a variable available
# to the procedure. The starting number will be entered during Setup from the main form
# Upon receipt of the keyword Number, program will look for the number of #’s characters
# Given the count of # characters, program will format the current count as text and append it
# The resulting text is available for transmission
# 8) Transmit the string to the output port
Tab:1
# 9) Send tab (Tab from the field after entering the characters …)
# The next field to be updated is the email field:
# 10) Compute the email string using the TestID string computed previously
Text:TestID
Number:5
Text:@test.com
# Generate a string: “TestID” + “#####” & “@test.com”
# 11) Send string to port
Tab:19
# 12) Send 19 tabs to reach the Admin note field
# The text to be transmitted can be prepared during Setup:
# Note: Operator must edit the string in the script file before Setup
Text:Updated yyyymmdd by moderator
# 13) Send Enter to cause the browser to send the updated page to the server
Enter:1
# The result of this action will be a re-display of the Essentials data for the current record.
# To reach the Administration button, it is necessary to enter a number of tabs …
# The first tab illuminates the Title display again …
# 14: <<== Tab to the Administration button on the Essentials page
Tab:40
# 15: <<== Send Enter to call for the Administration page with Bans button and wait 5 seconds
Enter:1
Wait:5000
# The next form that appears is an Administration page that contains only one active button:
# [Ban user]
# 16: To reach this button, enter tabs …
Tab:40
# tabs will cause this button to become illuminated/highlighted
# 17: Submit the request to transmit the page to the server
Enter:1
# The form that now appears is the Moderator menu
# The field to be changed is the IP field …
# The form opens with the Username field highlighted
# 19: Tab once to reach the IP field …
Tab:1
# 20: In the IP field, enter Backspace, to clear the field
Backspace
# Tab twice more to reach the Ban message field
# 21: This field can be prepared ahead of time to contain: Upd: yyyy/mm/dd
# Note: Operator must edit the string in the script file before Setup
Text:Upd: yyyy/mm/dd
# 22: Send Enter to cause the updated form to be transmitted and wait 5 seconds
Enter:1
Wait:5000
# The result of this action is to update the Moderator menu for Bans
# The result is a blank display of the Moderator menu
# *** One ID has been updated and posted to the Bans table
# At this point the procedure should stop
# The operator can verify the display in the Bans table.
# In program, one loop has completed
# Illuminate the on-screen button to show one cycle completed
# The procedure that follows may be used by operator to confirm success of the automation:

# Move to Screen 2
# As a manual process, hold ALT and press the tab key ….
# On the second screen, send Ctrl/F5 to refresh the screen
# The operator may inspect the screen to confirm the update took place as planned.

For SpaceNut ... thinking ahead .... We've been processing 22 ID's per day for a while

Automation (on my end) could increase the number of ID's you would see ... How many would you want to see?

Is 22 about right? Could we increase the number? What would work for you?

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-02-15 16:09:51)

SpaceNut · 2021-02-15 17:07:29

Does not really matter as we have lots of time before they are needed. I was glad to see wait states as we would not want anything to crash the server.

Tomorrow is a work day after being released Thursday due plausible exposure as a precaution did find out they had a negative test otherwise I would be returning next week instead had it been positive.

Projection is messy drive in for an inch upward.

I have noticed the polar vortex is punishing the middle of the US all the way to Texas with lots of power outages.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topst … d=msedgdhp

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-16 09:10:29

For SpaceNut re #816

Thanks for noting the wait states planned into the script!

Best wishes for a safe drive in!

We (the location where I live) was on a border between a region of sleet and a region of snow.

When I went out to see the situation this morning, I found a 2 inch layer of ice covered by a 2-3 inch layer of snow.

The plastic snowshovel which works like a charm with most snow was useless.

An old metal snowshovel that I haven't used in years was able to make some progress but not much.

I ended up using a heavy 6 foot steel post digger (at least that's what I ** think ** it is) to chisel the ice in a 2 inch path.

That broke up the ice sheet enough so the metal shovel could gain purchase.

I reported going around the block with powder snow in 22 minutes, including detail work at two houses.

This morning's exercise took an hour and a half, and the clear path was only the metal shovel width for two houses East, and two West.

Had I bought the electric shovel that was out of stock yesterday, it would have been useless, so I saved the money.

What ** would ** have been helpful would have been a power chisel designed to operate at the interface between concrete and the ice in a reciprocating manner. That is essentially what I was doing with the post digger, but the chisel was only 2 inches wide, and the tool itself must weigh close to 40 pounds.

That was tiring work!

However, the Sun is out, so the cleared stretches will shortly be sublimated clean, so the effort will have been worth while.

I'll start looking for an electric ice chisel, though I doubt the demand for such a tool is great enough for anyone to have made the investment of offer it.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-02-16 09:11:20)

GW Johnson · 2021-02-16 09:42:27

Ice not snow is what we normally get in central Texas. The snow we have gotten is very unusual indeed, although it sits atop the ice that fell earlier. Snow shovels do not work on ice. There are no tools that really do.

I am unusual among Texans in having spent two hundred-year-record-setting winters in Minnesota. What works on ice is sunshine. And salt. What I am about to describe does not work very well on a cloudy day.

You need lots of salt. It does not have to be table salt, but it needs to be finer than the rock salt used making ice cream. The stuff used in water softeners is about right. Scrape away **all** the snow, then spread the salt atop the ice, and let the sun do its work (it shines through the ice to the surface beneath). On darker surfaces like roadways, the ice will melt even at -10 F. Lighter surfaces, the coldest temperature at which this works is a little higher.

Other than that, a steel rock-breaking chisel is about the only way available to bust the ice. That's hard work. Letting the sun do it while you sit inside drinking coffee is the better way.

GW

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-16 10:57:42

For GW Johnson re #818

Thanks for your (to me quite interesting) tip about dealing with ice on paved surfaces.

The idea of waiting for the Sun sure is appealing. My concern here is that we (home owners) are responsible for the condition of the walks in front of the property. Foot traffic starts at 7 AM (local time) and continues throughout the day.

Foot traffic has the unfortunate effect of compacting the frozen precipitation into footprint shaped ice sculptures which then obstruct snow shovels.

Your suggestion of a rock-breaking chisel comes pretty close to describing the post digging tool I used this morning. I'm not sure what the correct name is. It has a flattened round end for tamping, and a chisel shaped end for breaking up hard soil. The shaft is at least an inch in diameter.

There was ** just ** enough gap between the ice layer and the concrete so the chisel could gain entry. That gap may have been there because there was a thin layer of regular snow before the sleet arrived.

I'll look for a supply of kind of liquid salt you described. My understanding is that a version of that is used by the local municipality so it can be sprayed on roads instead of scattered as would be the case with traditional road salt.

Edit#1: It seems unlikely anyone else will want to try this, but I had a supply of plastic roof tiles on hand. They are a modern version of the ancient slate roofing that has been used for centuries, and is still in use to this day for those who can afford the extra expense of installation.

The plastic roof tiles were part of a sample kit I ordered from the manufacturer in Canada. I'm interested in converting my 90 year old slate roof to this new design, but have not taken action to this point. Out of curiosity, I laid the plastic roof tiles on the concrete porch steps last night, and was delighted to find they carried the ice from the sleet storm with them, leaving clean concrete underneath.

I'm thinking of ordering more for the front porch steps as well.

Edit#2: The tool I used to break the ice this morning is listed in Amazon as a "Tamping and Digging Bar"

https://www.amazon.com/Bully-Tools-9253 … 945&sr=8-3

Edit#3: The salt in Sunlight idea is best for my neighbors on the North side of the street, where sunlight is abundant.

Due to the low aspect of the Sun at this time of year in my latitude, the sidewalks never see direct sunlight.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-02-16 11:40:52)

GW Johnson · 2021-02-16 14:48:21

TH:

The salt I was talking about is solid, and comes in bags at grocery and hardware stores up in the snow belt. Grain size is larger than table salt, but much smaller than rock salt. It'll work when used not in direct sunlight, just not as well. I no longer remember whether the bags were 50 or 80 pound. Very commonly used in home water softeners for mineralized well water. Rock salt also works on icy walkways, just not as well, and it costs more, being a food prep item.

You can mix this salt with sand and layer it onto the ice for walking traction. The effect is immediate, although the shadow of the sand slows any melting effect you get. That's essentially what highway departments spread onto icy bridges. The real downside is that after the nightly re-freeze, the ice-sand composite is much more resistant to removal and melting than the original ice.

I have one of those tamping bars myself. Its chisel end is busted, but it makes a wonderful pry bar for moving big heavy stuff. My cactus tools vary from 700 to 1500 pounds.

I'm not sure what your location is. Mine is rural about 15+ miles outside Waco, Texas. Waco is about halfway between DFW and Austin along I-35. My place is west of the interstate by almost 20 miles. We normally only see significant ice once a year, and the temperature rarely falls below 20 F. This year is quite different: we've been iced/snowed since 11 Feb, and this morning and the previous it was about 5 F outside. We have not been above freezing since the 11th.

This crap is reminiscent of (but nowhere near as bad as) the two record-setting winters I lived through in Minnesota about a quarter century ago. From Dec 29 1995 through about 15 March 1996 it was always at least -20 F in the AM, never got above 0 F in the PM, and something like a foot or three of snow blowing around in the wind. Never saw the sun. That was in Mankato, in the southern end of the state It was 20-30 degrees colder up in the northern end.

Summer 1996 was like outdoor air conditioning. Never saw anything hotter than about 85 F. People around me acted like they were dying in the heat, but that's an August dawn where I come from.

The second winter the snow that didn't melt came just before Halloween, and we did not see the ground again until a sudden melt-down mid-April. It was typically -10 F every AM, instead of -20F-or-worse, but a lot snowier. I had 2 to 5 feet of snow in my yard all winter long. We moved back to Texas in June 1997. I thought my outside thermometer was broken because it said -10 F all the time. When it went to 104 F back in Texas, I knew it wasn't broken.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-02-16 14:49:22)

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-16 15:15:49

For GW Johnson re #820

Thanks for the clarification about the salt. I'll ask about it at the local store.

Your recollections of Minnesota rang a bell ... I spent part of a winter in Rochester, although I don't recall conditions as severe as you described. But then, I didn't have to drive a car or worry about much beyond getting to class.

Neat story about the thermometer!

When I did a quick lookup on Rochester, Wikipedia told me Mayo Clinic was/is there.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-02-16 17:57:36

Well I got freezing rain here that was broken up into ice slushy mixture since it was salt sand treated of course, half way to work it had all changed to all rain for the remainder of the drive to work with clear roads.
Its still 45' in my home that has no working heating system but we are fine with electric blankets plus extra heavy blankets to make use of.
It would be bad with in the house if we were to lose power for sure. Of course I would make use of saved vacation and sick time to keep everyone here warm and fed as thats what I do with nothing.

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-16 18:25:58

For SpaceNut re #822

Your report of low temperatures in the house got to me .... I sure hope the situation improves soon!

News reports this evening included interviews with folks across the US who are without power and have no heat, let alone light, while the outside conditions are way below the norms for this time of year.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-02-16 19:37:54

testid03000 through testid03009 created and unbanned from the A'

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-17 06:24:05

For SpaceNut re #824

Your leadership qualities come through again !!! You set my next target, to fill the gap between 2085 and 3000.

It's going to take a bit longer than I'd hoped to complete the program to generate the stream to feed the browser on the Win 7.

I was astonished and disappointed to discover how badly my programming skills have faded due to disuse since 2017. That's not long ago, but I discovered that I can't pull procedures from memory without doing a lookup. Hopefully the recovery process will go quickly, but it is a reminder (to me at least) how important it is to keep vital skills polished.

It is with that in mind I appreciate the work of GW Johnson to keep his knowledge of orbital mechanics fresh by answering questions from members of this forum, and others from other sources as well!

We (the forum) can help by finding a way to adapt all that knowledge into the form of a tutorial that can be followed from start to finish by a student working over the Internet.

I'd like to see this forum advance to include formal education as part of its mandate, in addition to the existing capability to stimulate creative thinking.

(th)

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