Genetic Engineering on Martian crops

jfenciso · 2018-10-28 10:17:08

What are your thoughts about doing an genetic engineering of Martian crops?

Last edited by jfenciso (2018-10-28 10:17:59)

IanM · 2018-10-28 12:21:58

I believe it would be essential as it is on Earth (i.e., for stuff like increased yield, etc.), but I'm not entirely sure that it would be of particular use on Mars. The main difference from a plant standpoint is radiation, and ignoring the fact that plants are much more radiation-resistant than animals any attempts to make them more so might be compromised by radiation affecting the DNA. You could try to increase the primary productivity per flux density, or try to make C3 plants into C4 plants.

RobertDyck · 2018-10-28 12:29:34

I think genetic engineering is Ok.

I posted an idea for terraforming that some Mars Society members now call "Dyck'ian bog". My idea was to base it on natural Manitoba peat bogs. I live in the city of Winnipeg, in the province of Manitoba. Peat is a symbiosis of sphagnum moss with a species of cyanobacteria. Sphagnum moss produces strong acid to break down rock, extract nutrients such as phosphate, potassium, calcium, sodium, iron, magnesium, manganese, etc. Moss also acts like a sponge to soak up rain water. So this means moss can grow on bare igneous bedrock, with nothing but rock and rain and air and sunlight. It gets carbon from CO2 from the air through photosynthesis, like any other plant. The only nutrient missing is nitrogen. Cyanobacteria fixes nitrogen from air, combining nitrogen and water to produce nitrate. Cyanobacteria also uses photosynthesis as its energy source. Between the two, they get all the nutrients they need. Sphagnum moss like all plants requires a certain minimum amount of O2 in the air, but cyanobacteria does not. Natural peat bogs take thousands of years to grow, so my idea was to speed it up.

Start by grinding rock to a depth of 2 metres. Grind sand, gravel, stones, rocks, boulders, and bedrock, grinding it down to rock flour. Periodically in the bedrock, cut a pit for a slow sand filter. This will be below the 2 metre layer of rock flour. In the pit, put a stainless steel grid, above that rocks, then gravel, then course sand, then fine sand on top. The top surface of fine sand should be level with the bedrock where the rock flour will be laid. A water pump will be placed at the bottom of this pit, with outlet hose and cables leading to the surface. A pole will be placed in the pit to support the hose and cables temporarily. Once the rock flour is laid down, the hose will be laid on the surface leading a short distance away. The pole should extend about 2 metres above the surface. A photovoltaic panel will be mounted on top of the pole, with electronics and a battery on the back. Electronics will control the pump, with water quality sensors and Wifi. Data can be downloaded to a central control point via Wifi, and the Wifi will act as repeater nodes. Water will be monitored for temperature, flow rate, pH, calcium, phosphate, ammonia, iron, carbonate hardness, general hardness, and others.

The idea is to grind rock so it can be decomposed more quickly. Acid from sphagnum moss will break down rock minerals to clay, releasing nutrients. The circulation pump is to ensure all the rock flour is exposed to acid, not just the top. And flow acid across the rock flour to enhance chemical reaction. Slow sand filter is to ensure we circulate just water, not the rock flour itself. Once complete we should have a mixture of unreacted rock flour, clay, and peat moss. I'm told ideal soil for agriculture is loess, clay, and organic matter such as peat moss. Loess is wind-blown natural rock flour. So this will be ideal soil. Then we have to balance pH. And 2 metre depth because wheat requires that depth of soil. The purpose is to create soil suitable for farms.

Bog pH is actually very acid. Too acid for crops. One thing we can do is add lime water treatment to remove water hardness (calcium and magnesium).

I did an experiment in an aquarium using rock flour purchased from a garden centre. It worked, but released too much calcium & magnesium, made the water so alkali that it killed the sphagnum moss. Water hardness will have to be removed to prevent this. So each pole above ground will have a lime water treatment. Ironically, one type of lime can cause another to precipitate out. The precipitate can be baked at high temperature to make the type of lime needed for treatment. This could all be self-contained in equipment on the pole. This will remove calcium and magnesium while the bog is working. Once the rock flour is sufficient broken down, we can add lime back to the bog, neutralizing the acid. This will drop the pH creating suitable soil.

One option is only partially drop the pH. Spruce trees can grow in a peat bog, provided pH isn't too extreme. Growing trees will add more O2, and more bio-matter. Berries can grow in the peat bog, again provided pH isn't too extreme. If pH is moderate enough for spruce trees, it's good enough for berries. So the forest can grow blueberries, stawberries, raspberries, saskatoon berry (aka Juneberry), cranberry, huckleberry, sarsaparilla (for root beer), lingonberry (aka cowberry, partridgeberry, mountain cranberry or foxberry), and cloudberry. When you want to convert the forest to farm, you can cut down the trees and burn them for more lime to neutralize soil pH further.

Note: all this is *AFTER* atmospheric pressure has been increased, and temperature raised sufficiently that water will remain liquid in summer.

Genetic engineering: the issue is sphagnum moss requires a certain minimum amount of O2. If it could grow with absolutely no atmospheric O2, that would allow it go get started. One mechanical option is to lay plastic sheet over the bog, do not seal the edges so rain can flow in. This will leak O2 to Mars atmosphere (a good thing) but hopefully retain enough O2 to allow moss to grow. We wouldn't need any plastic if moss could grow with no atmospheric O2. Perhaps survive on O2 dissolved in bog water. The source of O2 will be cyanobacteria in that bog water.

Also, if spruce trees could grow with no atmospheric O2, this would also help. Trees are a net producer of O2, but require a certain minimum to live. They store energy as carbohydrate, consume that during night. They can even respire somewhat during the day; read about photo-respiration. But if genetically engineered spruce trees could grow in an atmosphere with no O2, that would allow us to start a biosphere.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2018-10-28 21:46:43)

jfenciso · 2018-10-28 12:39:19

IanM wrote:

You could try to increase the primary productivity per flux density, or try to make C3 plants into C4 plants.

Currently, I am following the research project from the International Rice Research Institute (IRRI). They established a research project entitled "The C4 Project". A genetic engineering where the carbon dioxide concentrating mechanism (CCM) of rice is C3 will be converted in C4 CCM just like corn.

This project will help to make a new variety of rice that will be planted in drought and high-temperature condition.

SpaceNut · 2018-10-28 19:47:48

Surprise not so much as we have talked about this so will copy posts here:

SpaceNut wrote:

The heat wave is back for much of the US and it seems that the head of global warming has a few more things that the rise in Co2 have for impacts.
Rising carbon dioxide levels could cause nutritional deficiencies across the globe: Study
Rising levels of carbon dioxide, which deplete the nutrients of different plants and key crops like wheat and rice could carry significantly less nutrition in the future. This could leave hundreds of millions around the world at risk for nutritional deficiencies as it impacts the poor the most. In addition, 1.4 billion women of childbearing age and children under 5 currently at high risk of iron deficiency could see reductions in their dietary iron intake of 4% or more.
Previous studies by this group and others have shown crops grown at greater than 550 parts per million (ppm) of carbon dioxide (CO2) have anywhere from 3% to 17% lower levels of iron, zinc and protein, compared with current atmospheric conditions of 400 ppm.
Results showed that by 2050, when the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is predicted to reach around 550 ppm, 175 million people could become deficient in zinc and 122 million people could become protein deficient.

SpaceNut wrote:

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/new … e-science/
https://newatlas.com/carbon-dioxide-atm … ion/51416/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti … n-in-food/
Wheat, rice, barley and certain legumes like soybeans are classified as C3 plants, which corresponds to their ability as plants to convert carbon dioxide into energy. These C3 grasses and legumes have been shown to lose up to 15 percent of zinc and iron, the top two minerals in the human body, in experiments that artificially enhanced the concentration of carbon dioxide. These elements are crucial for a healthy immune system, cell development, hemoglobin production and brain function.
The C4 plant growth is different it seems....

SpaceNut · 2018-10-28 19:49:27

RobertDyck wrote:

C3 vs C4 plants:
The first chemical that plants use to fix CO2 is Ribulose 1,5-bisphosphate (RuBP). An enzyme binds one molecule of CO2 to it, the enzyme is called ribulose bisphosphate carboxylase oxygenase (RuBisCO). If the ratio of O2 to CO2 is too high, it will bind O2 instead. This creates a waste product, RuBP with O2 has to be converted back into RuBP. That takes energy. It appears plants have evolved for an atmosphere with much more CO2. This is the first step of what high school called the dark reaction of photosynthesis. The university name for the same thing is the Calvin-Benson cycle because it was discovered by Mr. Calvin and Mr. Benson. The light reaction of photosynthesis is known by the university name "Photophosphorylation". That is highly optimized, extremely energy efficient. However, the Calvin-Benson cycle appears to be a mess, only efficient in an atmosphere with MUCH more CO2.
Some plants have evolved a way to concentrate CO2 in their tissues. Concentrating CO2 means O2 binding will occur much less. It takes energy to concentrate CO2, but less than recycling RuBP. Plants that do this create a large molecule with 4 carbon atoms, then that is broken down into CO2 near chloroplasts. Because the molecule that does his has 4 carbons, these plants are called C4 plants. RuBP has 3 carbon atoms, so plants that don't make C4 are called C3 plants. RuBP is actually used by both groups of plants, but they needed a name.
C4 plants can fix carbon with less energy in today's atmosphere, consequently they grow faster. These tend to be weeds, so weeds out-compete food crops. There are some exceptions; corn is a C4 plant, which is why it grows so well. However, in a greenhouse with elevated CO2, C3 plants will grow faster because they don't have to waste energy concentrating CO2. This both means food crops grow faster, and dramatically reduces weeds.

tahanson43206 · 2021-02-06 11:14:32

This post in the topic Genetic Engineering on Martian crops is about Cactus ...

However, in reading from the top, I found this post by RobertDyck ...

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 83#p151683

The mention of powdered rock rings a bell (literally in this case) ... in another topic, there is vigorous development underway, of one of Void's remarkable ideas ...
Powdered rock is a likely benefit of the Ballistic Cargo Delivery process ...

Kinetic energy has many uses aside from destroying tanks or bunkers, as recently described by GW Johnson in the Ballistics topic.

A well designed rock, containing minerals needed for plant growth, could be delivered to strategically selected landing sites, to pulverize the terrain.

In his recent post on this subject, GW Johnson asserted that the material involved in ballistics experiments conducted while he was part of the US Defense Establishment was "vaporized". That is a state of matter beyond "pulverized". However, I expect that if the kinetic energy of an oncoming projectile is directed downward, in a well chosen landing site, then the material would end up 'pulverized" because the "vaporized" state would be transitory.

This is primarily for RobertDyck, but comments by others are welcome:

Would planned kinetic activity help to prepare regolith for use as soil on Mars?

***
This post was opened to suggest adaptation of hardy American cactus plants for deployment on Mars.

It is not yet proven (to the best of my knowledge) that abundant supplies of brine exist on Mars, but if they do, then a combination of cactus genes and the remarkable plant called "mangroves" might do well on Mars.

Per a web site Google found (https://www.amnh.org), ',,,survive by filtering out as much as 90% of the salt..."

A cactus has properties that ** may ** allow it do do well in the bracing atmosphere of Mars, if it is provided a supply of water, ** and ** if it can filter water molecules from whatever else is present.

GW Johnson invented a machine for dealing with cactus.

Perhaps the Sol will come when cactus are regarded as a nuisance on Mars, as they are in some parts of Texas.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-30 06:26:26

Worldwide Indoor Farming Industry to 2032 - Featuring Aerofarms, Bright Farms and Richel Group Among Others

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/worldwid … 00500.html

As temperatures rise, Singapore races to find solutions to secure its food supply

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapo … at-2638356

RobertDyck · 2022-04-30 10:25:52

tahanson43206 wrote:

This is primarily for RobertDyck, but comments by others are welcome:
Would planned kinetic activity help to prepare regolith for use as soil on Mars?

Short answer: No. "Kinetic activity" means physical movement. Mars dirt has several issues:

no nitrogen within detection limits of instruments on Spirit/Opportunity. Curiosity found some, but in one location and with an instrument 10 times as sensitive as Spirit/Curiosity. If there is any nitrogen, it's way too low
no carbon within detection limits of instruments
too much iron, not enough potassium for many crops
alkali pH
superoxides
perchlorate

To convert Mars dirt into arable soil, the first step is to soak it with water. And bubble Mars atmosphere through the water under pressure to create soda water. CO2 dissolved in water is carbonic acid, a very mild acid. Reacting with alkali soil will create an acid/alkali reaction, reducing strength of the alkali and the first step of adding carbon. Water will cause superoxides to decompose, releasing oxygen. The soil will fizz, off-gassing primarily O2 but some CO2 as soda water is added.

Perchlorate is the primary problem. If there's perchlorate in soil, any crops that grow in it will have perchlorate in their fruit/produce. Perchlorate is toxic to humans. When perchlorate is broken down, it becomes salt and oxygen. Some bacteria break down perchlorate, but the process is slow. One researcher synthesized the enzyme that bacteria use, was able to break down perchlorate rapidly. There's a post about that somewhere in this forum. We'll need that on Mars.

Most crops are tolerant of iron, so that just leaves potassium fertilizer and something to add carbon (organic matter). Potash is the best potassium fertilizer, it's found where a large salt water sea completely dried up. A bed of layered salt is left behind, usually buried: sodium chloride (table salt), potassium salt (potash), calcium salt (road salt). There will be salt beds under the dried-up ocean on Mars, we just have to find them. Organic matter can be added as compost, or initially by growing pioneer plants.

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#1 2018-10-28 10:17:08

Genetic Engineering on Martian crops

#2 2018-10-28 12:21:58

Re: Genetic Engineering on Martian crops

#3 2018-10-28 12:29:34

Re: Genetic Engineering on Martian crops

#4 2018-10-28 12:39:19

Re: Genetic Engineering on Martian crops

#5 2018-10-28 19:47:48

Re: Genetic Engineering on Martian crops

#6 2018-10-28 19:49:27

Re: Genetic Engineering on Martian crops

#7 2021-02-06 11:14:32

Re: Genetic Engineering on Martian crops

#8 2022-04-30 06:26:26

Re: Genetic Engineering on Martian crops

#9 2022-04-30 10:25:52

Re: Genetic Engineering on Martian crops

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