Nitrous oxide based oxygen supply system

Quaoar · 2016-02-10 13:50:07

An interesting device from Robert Zubrin, who proposes to store oxygen as liquid N2O (21°C and 50 bar) instead of gOX.
Zubrin's back-pack has liquid N2O tank (8 kg is enough for eight hours) lighter than a compressed gas rank, a reactor with a catalyst bed and a little compressed air reservoir.

Dr. Zubrin proposes to use N2O to produce breathable 33%O2 66%N2 air, or to produce 100% O2 for breathing and use the N2 for cooling and for manuevering cold gas thrusters.

https://www.google.com/patents/US7165546

http://www.pioneerastro.com/Projects/Ni … ystem.html

SpaceNut · 2016-02-10 16:15:23

ok its a use once supply of Earth breathable atmosphere. In the presence of a heated catalyst, N
2O will decompose exothermically into nitrogen and oxygen, at a temperature of approximately 1070 °F. That seems like alot of energy to make the disassociation hppen. It appears that the nitrogen could be recycled with multiple processes but with even more energy required.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide

Thermophysical properties of nitrous oxide

GW Johnson · 2016-02-10 16:33:17

I dunno myself. Sounds like a Zubrin thing, though. Could be quite good, maybe not.

The first thing I though about was trace unreacted nitrous oxide getting into the oxygen. Another name is "laughing gas". It doesn't take much to make a person completely incompetent. That was the first anesthetic used in dentistry.

GW

SpaceNut · 2016-02-10 17:05:42

That just means a secondary filtering decoposition stage to ensure that a crew member does not get the disassociating effects from inhalation of nitrous oxide.

Process and device for decomposing laughing gas

Quaoar · 2016-02-16 07:43:22

GW Johnson wrote:

I dunno myself. Sounds like a Zubrin thing, though. Could be quite good, maybe not.
The first thing I though about was trace unreacted nitrous oxide getting into the oxygen. Another name is "laughing gas". It doesn't take much to make a person completely incompetent. That was the first anesthetic used in dentistry.
GW

Zubrin claims this composition for the breathing gas:

COMPONENT CONCENTRATION (MOLE %)
N2 66.83%
O2 31.56%
N2O 0.11%
NO2 1.0 ppm
NO Not detected

0.11% of N2O is not enough for anaesthetic effects, but it can inactivate B12 vitamin by oxyding its cobalt atom, so astronauts may have to take an extra B12 vitamin supply. Anyway N2O may have other side effects in chronical exposition, if astronauts only breath air from N2O during a long mission. And I'm also concerned about trace of very toxic ruthenium oxide cathalist in breathing mixture.

But it can be a very good monopropellant for a MMU, with the possibility to use the propellant as an emergency oxygen supply.

Last edited by Quaoar (2016-03-03 02:50:56)

GW Johnson · 2016-02-16 15:05:14

Hi Quaoar:

Well, either way, it's a bloody intriguing idea. I hope it does lead somewhere.

GW

RobertDyck · 2016-02-16 16:15:24

NO2 exists in equilibrium with N2O4, dinitrogen tetroxide is sometimes called nitrogen tetroxide. This is the oxidizer for storable propellants. The Apollo service module used MMH with N2O4 for its RCS thruster quads, and Aerozine 50 with N2O4 for its main engine. Shuttle used MMH with N2O4 for its RCS thrusters. Russian Soyuz and Progress spacecraft use UDMH with N2O4, as does thrusters on Russian modules of ISS. European ATV used MMH with N2O4 for its service module, but carried UDMH and N2O4 to refill tanks of Russia modules of ISS.

N2O4 ⇌ 2 NO2
Higher temperatures push the equilibrium towards nitrogen dioxide.

Wikipedia wrote:

'Nitrogen Tetroxide' and the abbreviation 'NTO' is extensively used...
On 24 July 1975, NTO poisoning affected the three U.S. astronauts on board the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project during its final descent. This was due to a switch negligently, or accidentally, left in the wrong position, which allowed NTO fumes to vent out of the Apollo spacecraft then back in through the cabin air intake from the outside air after the external vents were opened. One crew member lost consciousness during descent. Upon landing, the crew was hospitalized for 14 days for chemical-induced pneumonia and edema.

Terraformer · 2016-02-17 09:59:12

I don't know why you'd use it as an oxygen source for breathing, though. It's not like the nitrogen gets used up.

SpaceNut · 2020-12-11 18:41:25

Reading this topic as a fuel for an internal combustion engine would seem to be possible for mars.
I am wonder at what pressure levels and or if liquid content is where to go for the mixture to be fed into the engine for power to the wheels.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-26 05:09:50

Nitrous Oxide Ethane Ethylene Engine, Phase I

https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/nitrou … ne-phase-i

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#1 2016-02-10 13:50:07

Nitrous oxide based oxygen supply system

#2 2016-02-10 16:15:23

Re: Nitrous oxide based oxygen supply system

#3 2016-02-10 16:33:17

Re: Nitrous oxide based oxygen supply system

#4 2016-02-10 17:05:42

Re: Nitrous oxide based oxygen supply system

#5 2016-02-16 07:43:22

Re: Nitrous oxide based oxygen supply system

#6 2016-02-16 15:05:14

Re: Nitrous oxide based oxygen supply system

#7 2016-02-16 16:15:24

Re: Nitrous oxide based oxygen supply system

#8 2016-02-17 09:59:12

Re: Nitrous oxide based oxygen supply system

#9 2020-12-11 18:41:25

Re: Nitrous oxide based oxygen supply system

#10 2022-08-26 05:09:50

Re: Nitrous oxide based oxygen supply system

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