2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

Calliban · 2020-11-17 23:47:18

The COVID Coup, by Charles Hugh Smith.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/covid-coup

Another interesting article from Epoch Times
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cov … ll-america

Now that the Left realise that they can use this non-crisis to control every aspect of peoples lives, don't expect them to ever left you go.

SpaceNut · 2020-11-18 18:49:39

For the US once the risk of death for those in critical age and health groups drops so will the need for all of the mandatory stuff as most do not believe it works as they themselves have not be effected by a close family members death let alone getting real sick enough to be hospitalized.
The vaccines so far are requiring 2 doses and are 95% effective on the cases of a positive condition but wat does that mean to the asymptomatic population that will not get any as they do not know that they need it....
This is like getting the pneumonia shots when you get over 60 but end up sick shortly after getting them does it make sense if you do not feel sick to get one?

SpaceNut · 2020-11-19 21:02:54

We are now nearing a death rate of 1 every minute....with more states calling on mask mandate rules but many lack enforcement....

tahanson43206 · 2020-11-20 06:23:52

For SpaceNut re topic, and specifically post #652 and vaccination

I saw an interesting idea floated by a politician in the past day or so ... since the US is on the verge of rolling out another 1200 (USD) payment to eligible recipients, it seems to have occurred to this person that a $1000 bonus for taking the vaccine would help to increase participation.

I can guarantee ** I ** would snap up that offer << grin >>

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-11-20 10:17:52

The stimulus status will be on hold until next year it looks like.
Congress heads home for Thanksgiving without pandemic relief deal as the U.S. death toll passes 250,000 and millions of Americans remain on unemployment.

The ‘Big Four’ includes House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer met Thursday to discuss ways coronavirus relief could be tacked on to a must-pass spending bill that needs to clear both chambers of Congress by Dec. 11 to avert a government shutdown.

Which expires on the 12th for the continuing resolution.

The nationwide eviction moratorium will expire at the end of the year, as well as the student loan forbearance program, which President Donald Trump implemented by executive order. The Paycheck Protection Program to assist small business owners stopped taking applications in August. And the boosted $600 in federal unemployment insurance ran out in late July.
Pandemic Emergency Unemployment Compensation, which provides an additional 13 weeks of unemployment insurance and the Pandemic Unemployment Assistance Program, which aids self-employed or part-time workers, are set to expire Dec. 31.
McConnell and Senate Republicans have proposed a $500 billion targeted bill that would mainly focus on extending unemployment benefits, liability protections and bolstering the Paycheck Protection Program, which aids small businesses.
Meanwhile, Democrats in the House have passed two massive relief packages that Republicans in the Senate have refused to take up: a $3 trillion-plus package passed in May, and a slightly watered down version at $2.2 trillion passed in October as being left ideological wish list.

So much for not putting the politics game into this....as its nothing more than he said she said when it comes to what should be for the people and not party.

kbd512 · 2020-11-20 11:21:22

tahanson43206,

Paying someone to prevent them from dying or being seriously injured by taking a vaccine? Seriously?

The idea that we would need to pay people to do something that would potentially save their lives... beggars belief.

Terraformer · 2020-11-20 11:53:28

kbd,

When it's a novel vaccine type? Yes, you do need to pay people to accept the unknown risk. Particularly if they're not really at risk from the virus itself.

The UK government has announced plans to vaccinate everyone over 65 by early January, then start on everyone under 50 by the end of the month. Which is strange, since the swine flu vaccine wasn't made available for most people under 65, and the age-specific case fatality rates for that were higher for most people than they are for COVID.

Will they do the obvious thing and relax all restrictions once the people who are actually getting sick are vaccinated? Unlikely. Unless we have a different Prime Minister by then, which is... possible.

tahanson43206 · 2020-11-20 13:17:13

For Terraformer re #657

Thanks for picking up the theme there. I was taken aback that (of all people) kbd512 seems unaware of the 70,000,000 Americans who claim they will not take a vaccination even if it is free. That number is a ball park figure ... I don't have the poll results immediately at hand. I'll keep a watch for them. They show up in the news feed on a regular basis.

Terraformer · 2020-11-20 13:42:39

I don't blame them for being suspicious. No mRNA vaccine had been approved for use, then suddenly they're safe?

tahanson43206 · 2020-11-20 14:09:31

For Terraformer re #659 ...

I can only speak for myself (of course) but it the reward is $1,000 on the barrel head, I'm ready << grin >>

That's taking into account that the vaccine is approved for distribution to the population as a whole.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-11-21 17:21:47

With all the flack on the wearing of masks those that did should go ahead of those that refuse to do so even with all the facts that saying that wearing them for countless number of states like Kansas have shown that it does slow the number of infection cases of covid.

More GOP governors embrace mask mandates, but holdouts remain even Mask Mandate Takes Effect in New Hampshire as Coronavirus Cases Rise New Hampshire's coronavirus tests returning positive at higher rates, the virus now detected in all 10 counties and outbreaks at 11 long-term care facilities.

The state saw a record number of new coronavirus cases, 529, on Thursday. There were an average of 400 infections being detected per day over the last week, more than twice what the metric was showing two weeks ago, State Epidemiologist Dr. Benjamin Chan said.
The number of people in New Hampshire hospitals has roughly doubled as well, to 98. Sununu noted that there is still hospital capacity but Thursday's announcement is meant to prevent an overload on the health care system.

Void · 2020-11-21 18:13:33

I use masks and sanitizer. I think it is worth the try. Probably gives some marginal help, and we would want all the help possible.

Even if it was a placebo, people need it to think that they can do something about the problem.

I believe that that was done in WWII, were people were encouraged to donate pots and pans to the war effort. Apparently it was not that helpful, but it made the population think they could do something useful.

Done.

SpaceNut · 2020-11-23 10:58:40

This sucks for the family as it only took 1 that did not know for the guard to be let down for the virus to decimate A birthday lunch left 15 Texas relatives battling covid-19: ‘Please don’t be like my family’

As coronavirus cases in the United States continue to rise in record numbers, the situation in Texas is dire. This weekend, the state’s National Guard deployed a 36-member team to assist in morgues in El Paso, as the state reported 13,763 new cases on Saturday, according to The Post’s coronavirus tracker. At least 20,556 Texans have died of covid-19. People of color, including Latinos like the Aragonez family, who are Mexican American, continue to suffer increased mortality rates from covid-19, a Post analysis found.

post tracker

SpaceNut · 2020-11-24 10:48:07

What we have learned about the early virus spread and its mutations.
Early Coronavirus Mutation Made Pandemic Harder to Stop, Evidence Suggests

The mutation, known as 614G, was first spotted in eastern China in January and then spread quickly throughout Europe and New York City. Within months, the variant took over much of the world, displacing other variants.
There is no evidence that a coronavirus with the 614G mutation causes more severe symptoms, kills more people or complicates the development of vaccines. Nor do the findings change the reality that places that quickly and aggressively enacted lockdowns and encouraged measures like social distancing and masks have fared far better than the those that did not.
The first outbreaks of the virus would have spread around the world even without the mutation, believe most researchers, including Dr. Engelthaler. The original variant spotted in Wuhan, China, in late 2019 was already highly contagious, he said. But the mutation appears to have made the pandemic spread further and faster than it would have without it.

NH GOP Gov. Sununu orders state mask mandate

After a huge daily up tick and nursing home infection occurred in a data informed decision.
.

Beginning Nov. 20, all persons over age 5 within New Hampshire must wear mask or cloth face coverings over their noses and mouths any time they are in public spaces, indoors or outdoors, where they are unable to or do not consistently maintain a physical distance of at least six feet from persons outside their own households.
Per the order, the term “public spaces” includes any part of private or public property that is generally open or accessible to members of the general public. Public spaces include, but are not limited to, lobbies, waiting areas, outside plazas or patios, restaurants, retail businesses, streets, sidewalks, parks, beaches, elevators, restrooms, stairways, parking garages, etc.

Of course we are waiting for the Federal government to do a stimulus to give aid but NH has done it for its own businesses

COVID-19 relief funds
Sununu also announced round 2 of the Main Street Relief Fund totaling $95 million will be released to 1,900 businesses, 680 of which are first-time applicants and approximately 1,200 businesses that had received funds in the past.
Sununu cautioned state residents against in-person Thanksgiving gatherings.

COVID In NYC: Staten Island Reopens Coronavirus Field Hospital Not Used Since Peak Of Pandemic
Other states opened up field hospitals are Wisconsin, Massachusetts, and with many more like Rhode Island’s that are almost to the point where they will need to open field hospitals as well.

SpaceNut · 2020-11-25 21:46:15

One chart shows the best and worst face masks for coronavirus protection — and which situations they're suited for

Sad that some are not clear on how to wear them
BB18L341.img?h=533&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

A simple trick can reveal whether your face mask offers sufficient protection: Try blowing out a candle while wearing it. A good mask should prevent you from extinguishing the flame.
The ideal mask blocks both large respiratory droplets from coughs or sneezes — the primary method by which people pass the virus to others — along with smaller airborne particles called aerosols, which are produced when people talk or exhale.

BB18L345.img?h=982&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

Terraformer · 2020-11-26 07:21:41

Well great, we're in 'Tier 3' (tightest restrictions) again. Nevermind the fact that we have one of the lowest case rates in the country, far lower than almost every area in Tier 2.

Boris Johnson is certainly going to be remembered as a Prime Minister and Conservative Party leader. The man who took dozens of Labour safe seats, and then proceeded to piss on their constituents.

tahanson43206 · 2020-11-26 07:50:35

For Terraformer re #666 and topic in general ...

Best wishes to you and your countrymen to come through the present time with the fewest possible casualties.

I ** think ** we are seeing evolution at work on a global scale. The countries that clamped down with ferocious intensity, and whose citizens joined enthusiastically in the team effort, will have lost the fewest citizens, and brought the economy back online the soonest.

The countries with the weakest cultures, where team effort is scorned and individualism soars, will arrive on the other side with many fewer citizens.

In the decades ahead, the strong survivors will assume the role of global leadership that flows naturally from such circumstances.

(th)

RobertDyck · 2020-11-26 09:58:34

Manitoba is in "code red", the tightest restrictions. For 4 weeks, the last 2 weeks of June and first 2 weeks of July, total case count hovered from 1 to 3. No one in hospital with COVID, those who were infected simply self-isolated/recovered at home. All those cases were truck drivers who entered our province from outside Manitoba, or in one case family members who lived in the house with that truck driver. There were 2 people in his house, that's why the case count went to 3. So this meant other than truck drivers bringing the disease in, we had zero cases. Zero! For 4 weeks. Zero.

Then the provincial government reopened the economy. Did he lift restrictions, end social distancing, end limits people number of people in restaurants, etc? No. He allowed travel from Canadian western provinces without self-isolating, and film production crews from the United States to enter Manitoba. Film crews did not have to quarantine, did not even have to self-isolate for the usual 14 days. They only had to sign a paper claiming to have self-isolated wherever they came from before entering Manitoba. Alberta and BC have major problems with Americans. Although the federal government has closed the border to travel from the US, there was a loop-hole: anyone claiming to drive from the lower 48 states to Alaska was allowed to enter. One waitress in Banff was shocked to see a table of people from Texas, she asked how they got into Canada. They just told border security they were driving through to Alaska. Of course they had no intention of doing so, Alaska wasn't their destination, Banff was. Police in BC and Alberta are now looking for America license plates; any American will be caught and fined. One man in BC is currently facing a fine of $750,000. But that's all provinces can do; only the federal government has the authority to say Americans can't enter. So here in Manitoba, do you really believe an American film company is going to pay for all their cast and crew to do nothing for 2 weeks? Do you know how much A-list actors get paid? Big name directors and producers? As well as all the rest of the production crew? Do you really believe a film production company is going to pay for all of them to do nothing for 2 weeks? And do you realize the COVID case count in California?

And just to be clear, when Manitoba allowed travel to Alberta and BC without self-isolating, currently active case count in those two provinces was over 300 each.

Now Manitoba has the highest per-capita COVID rate in Canada. Winnipeg has the highest rate in of all. We went from zero to the highest rate in Canada. And they *STILL* won't close the border! The province hired a private security firm to enforce COVID rules, various provincial officers have been empowered to give out tickets, individuals who never had authority before. But they *STILL* won't close the border. The province holds conference calls where the provincial Health Officer gets to explain what they're currently doing, and you can ask questions. I attended one, and asked him to close the border. He got angry at me and said "no".

Total number of people who died of COVID in Manitoba before opening the border was 2. Two tragic deaths, but only 2. As of today total count is 256 deaths, 303 in hospital including 50 in ICU.

::Edit:: And restrictions state that a person living alone is allowed to visit one designated person who is also living alone. I would like that to be my girlfriend. She lives with her father, he has early stages of Alzheimer's. But provincial authorities tell me I'm not allowed to visit my girlfriend unless her father isn't there. It's her father's house. And she needs to be with him because he's getting forgetful. So I can't see my girlfriend! All restaurants are closed, so we can't meet in a restaurant or coffee shop. We can only talk over the phone.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2020-11-26 10:12:09)

tahanson43206 · 2020-11-26 10:29:21

For RobertDyck re #668

Thank you for your detailed report on recent developments in Manitoba. Best wishes for (somehow) coming through this with as few losses as possible.

I note that Calliban has been enduring a similar lockdown, as reported in a recent post.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-11-26 10:38:33

The article at the link below seems (as I read it) to offer a reasonably balanced evaluation of the Chinese success in controlling the virus.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/covi … c-n1246587

But 10 months after the virus emerged, life is nearing pre-pandemic normality in China, to an extent not seen in most other countries.
"They have done an amazing job of controlling the virus," said Ali Mokdad, a professor of global health at the University of Washington and a former official with the international health program at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
But such success is possible only through restrictions on individual freedoms, he said, that would not be tolerated in the U.S. and other democracies.

I have noted before that the population of China has been bred for thousands of years to have the ability to operate seamlessly as a team when necessary.

The author of the article notes that the restrictions accepted (essentially without complaint) by mainland Chinese would not be tolerated in other cultures.

I deduce that the population of China will increase during and after the present time, while that of other cultures will shrink.

This entire episode ** may ** have instructive value for those planning to set up a community on Mars (or anywhere away from Earth).

The Wild West philosophy of some cultures would appear to be at a competitive disadvantage when the stakes are high.

It would seem reasonable to try to achieve a hybrid culture, in which Wild West individualism runs riot until the moment Chinese style teamwork is needed.

The United States seems to have the capability to make such a switch. It appears to have done so when provoked sufficiently during the early 1940's.

However, the diffuse nature of the Covid virus appears to be beyond the comprehension of about half the population.

By deduction, I would conclude that a provocation on the order of Pearl Harbor would be needed to sway the minds of those who are unable to process the present danger, and such a provocation is not characteristic of Covid 19.

(th)

Terraformer · 2020-11-26 11:25:00

th,

The countries that are doing the worst are the ones that had lockdowns, but didn't bother to do testing. Doing nothing would have been far better than what we have here - even if we hadn't shielded the vulnerable (and why wouldn't we?), deaths would have been a blip measured over a decade (the average death represents ~5 years of life lost - this virus does not really cause problems if you aren't elderly).

The government has spent £280 billion *so far* on the response, and 'saved', if we use the high end estimates, ~400k lives. At 5 years each, that's 2 million life years. Our National Institute for Clinical Excellence, responsible for deciding what treatments the NHS will provide, prices each life-year at £30k (as in, that's the most they will spend on treatments).

Which is to say, if NICE were in charge, they would have been willing to spend no more than £60 billion on preventing those deaths. The government does not follow the government's own guidelines on how much the government should spend on preventing deaths.

tahanson43206 · 2020-11-26 12:12:24

For Terraformer re topic ...

I was intrigued by your assertions in #671, so went looking to see if there is any data available about how well various countries have performed ...

The article at the link below goes on in amazing depth for multiple pages, so I don't expect anyone would have time to read it all, let alone the references.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01009-0

Published: 16 November 2020
Ranking the effectiveness of worldwide COVID-19 government interventions
Nils Haug, Lukas Geyrhofer, Alessandro Londei, Elma Dervic, Amélie Desvars-Larrive, Vittorio Loreto, Beate Pinior, Stefan Thurner & Peter Klimek
Nature Human Behaviour (2020)Cite this article
83k Accesses
2046 Altmetric
Metrics

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-11-26 12:57:11

Some federal agencies have decided that your life is exceedingly valuable. While the average U.S. household has a net worth of less than $100,000, the Environmental Protection Agency pegs the value of one life at about $10 million, one of the highest among federal agencies.

There is kind of an official price tag on human life. We can tell you what it is.

At least in the United States, "the value of a statistical life turns out to be around $5 million

So for those that want to go for the herd immunity this is all that you would be paid for your life if you died wrongfully...

Lets play devils advocate in that say you where issued a card with the value on it to use for your entire life with no expectation that government or insurance ect would do anything for you for once you ran out of funds...meaning you are not only homeless but where ever you die no one would care you would be yesterdays rubbish....

Sure the gamble is that you would not have any health issues, no accidents cause by yourself or by another, that you would not get any diseases that would end your life prematurely but its not a 1% chance is it as all of these add up...

So what is that hourly rate if you only count the years that you could earn money before you are no longer functional? Is that 40 yrs or 50 yrs not counting school age work years as they are not full time 40 hr minimum.

That lump sum starts to look not so rosy if you are not paid for holidays, sick time, no vacation or annual time off ect...nor contributions from your employer for the decades that you work towards your retirement.

So planning for when you are incapable of working in those last 10 yrs to as high as 40 yrs might be a little tough when everything kinds going up.

RobertDyck · 2020-11-26 13:40:49

After 1:00pm we had an update. There are now 266 people dead of COVID-19, 307 in hospital including 46 in ICU (intensive care unit).

SpaceNut · 2020-11-26 13:43:11

RobertDyck, are those daily or since the pandemic started numbers?

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#651 2020-11-17 23:47:18

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#652 2020-11-18 18:49:39

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#653 2020-11-19 21:02:54

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#654 2020-11-20 06:23:52

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#655 2020-11-20 10:17:52

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#656 2020-11-20 11:21:22

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#657 2020-11-20 11:53:28

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#658 2020-11-20 13:17:13

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#659 2020-11-20 13:42:39

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#660 2020-11-20 14:09:31

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#661 2020-11-21 17:21:47

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#662 2020-11-21 18:13:33

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#663 2020-11-23 10:58:40

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#664 2020-11-24 10:48:07

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#665 2020-11-25 21:46:15

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#666 2020-11-26 07:21:41

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#667 2020-11-26 07:50:35

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#668 2020-11-26 09:58:34

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#669 2020-11-26 10:29:21

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#670 2020-11-26 10:38:33

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#671 2020-11-26 11:25:00

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#672 2020-11-26 12:12:24

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#673 2020-11-26 12:57:11

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#674 2020-11-26 13:40:49

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#675 2020-11-26 13:43:11

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

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