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#1 2020-11-18 19:31:47

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Telemeres and Senescent Cells and Space Travel

The article at the link below may provide some ideas for making space travel more attractive than it might be otherwise ...


https://www.yahoo.com/news/human-ageing … 21785.html

Now scientists at Tel Aviv University have shown that giving pure oxygen to older people while in a hyperbaric chamber increased the length of their telomeres by 20 per cent, a feat that has never been achieved before.

Scientists said the growth may mean that the telomeres of trial participants were now as long as they had been 25 years earlier.

The therapy also reduced senescent cells by up to 37 per cent, making way for new healthy cells to regrow. Animal studies have shown that removing senescent cells extends remaining life by more than one third.

I asked Google about "hyperbaric" treatments, and discovered a recent reference from Mayo Clinic ...

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hy·per·bar·ic
/ˌhīpərˈberik/
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adjective: hyperbaric

    of or involving a gas at a pressure greater than normal.
    "a hyperbaric chamber"

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1960s: from hyper- ‘above normal’ + Greek barus ‘heavy’.
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Hyperbaric | Definition of Hyperbaric by Merriam-Webster
www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › hyperbaric
: of, relating to, or utilizing greater than normal pressure especially of oxygen a hyperbaric chamber hyperbaric medicine.

Definition of Hyperbaric - MedicineNet
www.medicinenet.com › script › main › art
Hyperbaric: Pertaining to gas pressures greater than 1 atmosphere* of pressure. Also pertaining to solutions that are more dense than the medium to which they ...

Hyperbaric | Definition of Hyperbaric at Dictionary.com
www.dictionary.com › browse › hyperbaric
Hyperbaric definition, (of an anesthetic) having a specific gravity greater than that of cerebrospinal fluid. See more.

Hyperbaric oxygen therapy - Mayo Clinic
www.mayoclinic.org › about › pac-20394380
Oct 28, 2020 — Overview Hyperbaric oxygen therapy involves breathing pure oxygen in a pressurized environment. · Why it's done Your body's tissues need an ...

Hyperbaric medicine - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Hyperbaric_medicine
Hyperbaric medicine is medical treatment in which an ambient pressure greater than sea level ... The following indications are approved (for reimbursement) uses of hyperbaric oxygen therapy as defined by the UHMS Hyperbaric Oxygen ...
Medical uses · Contraindications · Hyperbaric chambers · Treatments

Presumably anyone with access to oxygen could take this treatment at home.

It struck me as nicely coincidental with RobertDyck's vision of an environmental suit for Mars (or space) that would operate at 3 PSI pure oxygen.

(th)

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#2 2020-11-19 07:47:24

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,340
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Re: Telemeres and Senescent Cells and Space Travel

More evidence that the Antediluvian world had significantly higher oxygen levels than today wink

I don't buy the line about higher oxygen leading to higher oxidative stress. Your body doesn't need to *use* the extra oxygen that's available. Pretty sure the stress is linked to metabolism more than oxygen availability.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#3 2020-11-19 09:19:20

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: Telemeres and Senescent Cells and Space Travel

For Terraformer re #2

Thanks for giving this new topic a boost.

This research ** should ** lead to commercial life extension therapy.

I see the procedure as attractive for space suit (or Mars environmental suit) wearers ... if the parameters of operation are set correctly, and if the research is supported by other studies, then Mars settlers may live far longer than their counterparts on Earth.

(th)

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#4 2020-11-21 16:34:44

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,582

Re: Telemeres and Senescent Cells and Space Travel

------
Your posts were interesting.  I have followed things like that for some time.
If the new discovery about telomeres is better described, I would like to know if it extends the telomers for all cells.
I will mention several persons involved with life/healthspan extention.  They all seem to have articles/videos that can be viewed.
-----
Elizabeth Parrish is a business person who had gene therapy performed on her.  She also works in the field.  The results have so far been positive, but limited, I think, to two cell types.  It is currently a very expensive procedure.
-----
Bill Andrews has done a lot of work on Telomeres, and has been trying to slow down or even lengthen them using drugs.
-----
Aubrey De Grey is a bit different as al least formerly, he wanted to shorten them and then give people stem cell treatments periodically.   There has been some concern that lengthened telomeres could induce cancer.  However another argument is that healty cells better fight off cancer.  In that argument, when the telomeres get short, this allows for mutations that can lead to cancer.
He seems to support the science on the benefits of removing senescent cells.
He has a view that their are 7 catagories of damage to the human body over time and that they all have to be treated effectively to keep humans alive and healthy for prolonged periods, perhaps even a thousand years or so.   That would be the odds of how long you might live before a bus hit you or a shark ate you.  Or maybe a uplifted shark driving a bus might hit you and eat you.
-----
George Church is interesting.  Very intellegent as far as an ant can tell.  Gene therapy.
-----
David Sinclair has two drugs for life extention.  Resveratrol, which I already take, and NMN, which I do not believe is on the market yet.  His view is to extend human healthspan, and perhaps also extend lifespan maybe 20 years.  His objective seems to be to have you healthy until a few weeks before you go into a death spiral.
-----
William Faloon advocates many things.  Has a weird cult like church, but I think it is harmless.  He would be giving some notions on many things including Senolytics to remove senescent cells.
-----
One thing I can advocate is "Red Light Therapy".   It is actually Red and Infrared light therapy.
It cured a circulation problem in my hands, and made my skin much healthier.   Most wrinkles went away because it stimulates the skin.   Skin is an organ.  If it looks healthier, most likely it is healthier, and so likely the body more healty.  In addition, the infrared penetrates deep into the body and supposedly helps healing and also joint problems.   The product I use is from JOOVV.  In my case I don't own it, I use it at a health facility for a price, along with cryotherapy and some other things.   I use a V-Max fitness whole body vibration device as well, that is said to increase bone density/mass, among other things.
I think that it was used on the ISS.
So, yes maybe some of this stuff good for space travel as well.
Done.


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#5 2020-11-21 18:15:46

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,582

Re: Telemeres and Senescent Cells and Space Travel

This is a very interesting article, perhaps I have posted it before, but it shows how sometimes in Science, it takes time to come to the right conclusions.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 … 115724.htm

Quote:

Source:
University of California - Berkeley
Summary:
A new study reveals that replacing half of the blood plasma with a mixture of saline and albumin reverses signs of aging and rejuvenates muscle, brain and liver tissue in old mice. The research team is currently finalizing clinical trials to determine if a modified plasma exchange in humans could be used to treat age-associated diseases and improve the overall health of older people.

Previous experiments where an old mouse was spliced with a young mouse indicated that the old mouse benefited.  The conclusion was that something from the young mouse helped the old mouse.  However that seems to be wrong.

If the article is to be believed, then what happened is the old mouse plasma was diluted.

There have been clinics where old people take blood donations from young people.  This does not seem to be the way.

It turns out that if you:

Quote:

But a new study by the same team shows that similar age-reversing effects can be achieved by simply diluting the blood plasma of old mice -- no young blood needed.

In the study, the team found that replacing half of the blood plasma of old mice with a mixture of saline and albumin -- where the albumin simply replaces protein that was lost when the original blood plasma was removed -- has the same or stronger rejuvenation effects on the brain, liver and muscle than pairing with young mice or young blood exchange. Performing the same procedure on young mice had no detrimental effects on their health.

This discovery shifts the dominant model of rejuvenation away from young blood and toward the benefits of removing age-elevated, and potentially harmful, factors in old blood.

So, then you are getting rid of an accumulation of hostile factors in your blood system that apparently our bodies do not naturally handle, if this true.

It is also a bit of turn around to realize that the very old dismissed idea of bleeding people may not have been that wrong, if done correctly.
"Bad Blood" may really be a thing.

It shows that one should always want to really look at things many times.

My hair cutter, who is an authority of course!  Told me that men need to give blood, as it forces the body to repair the blood system.  This could make sense as long as you have enough stem cells to do it.

She claimed that women naturally do it.  Which could be true.  It might be part, she said as to why women live longer than men.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2020-11-21 18:24:58)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#6 2020-11-22 05:04:36

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,340
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Re: Telemeres and Senescent Cells and Space Travel

Hmm. It turns out that life is, after all, in the blood.

Liver function decreases with age. I wonder if liver transplants from younger people is associated with a reversal of age related decline in other areas? Pretty sure there's a large enough sample to investigate this. Or we could just check if there's a correlation between liver dysfunction and ageing symptoms.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#7 2020-11-22 08:38:34

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: Telemeres and Senescent Cells and Space Travel

For Terraformer re #6

Your mention of the liver caught my eye, both because it connects so directly to the topic, but also because it has a connection to another current topic in this forum.  SpaceNut introduced the idea of a portable potable water supply mechanism, and he opened the discussion with traditional static filters.

A liver is a dynamic filter (as I understand it).  The Holy Grail for water filtration is a dynamic system that processes molecules found in the liquid it is processing to select alternate paths for them.  A liver in a living creature would appear to be just such a mechanism.

In humans, it would be helpful if the liver could remove Senescent cells along with other undesirable objects such as virus, bacterial and other intruders.

The functioning of the liver might be an interesting area of research, if someone has the talent and inclination to pursue it.

Such a person would be quite rare.  It helps to have a large population on Earth.  The needed person may be alive on Earth today, just beginning the education process.

(th)

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#8 2020-11-22 08:54:30

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,582

Re: Telemeres and Senescent Cells and Space Travel

Good posts both of them.

I think it will be important to find out if the liver and other organs just allow "Dirty" blood in older age, or if there are things human organs were never intended to filter out.

In the second case especially, that might have been that the accumulation rate is very slow, and there was no reason for evolution to develop the better cleaning process.   There is an argument that it is good for a population for the old to die to make room for the young, so nature does not necessarily favor the old obviously.   However as long as dementia does not set in it is possible for a human mind to become useful in ways that a young mind would not have.   So, we might wish to have older minds that are possible by extending health span.

Aubrey De Grey has worked on "Oxidative Cholesterol", which unlike regular cholesterol, the body cannot remove.   So, that is an example of how our bodies are not naturally designed to handle every type of accumulation of damage.  He actually does have some sort of plan to make humans able to get rid of "Oxidative Cholesterol".  Borrowed it from bacteria from grave sites.

Blood though is a fluid, and if there are accumulating toxins, that the body is not designed to remove, then a plasma draw intervention sounds like a good thing.

Hopefully, it would not have to be done that often, but that remains to be seen.  If it were done often, I don't know how much of a draw it would be on stem cells, if any.   However if you can lengthen telomeres, then it might be that you could have a plentiful supply of any possible needed cell replacements.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2020-11-22 09:05:30)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#9 2020-11-22 09:17:02

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: Telemeres and Senescent Cells and Space Travel

For Void re #8

Thank you for your contribution to this new topic!

Picking up on:

I think it will be important to find out if the liver and other organs just allow "Dirty" blood in older age, or if there are things human organs were never intended to filter out.

Research opportunity for members of this forum:

1) How does the liver work (all creatures with livers, not just humans)
2) Am I correct in thinking the liver is a dynamic filter that operates at the molecular level to select nanoscale objects for alternative pathways
3) What is an "artificial liver"
4) Am I correct in thinking an "artificial liver" of 2020 is a poor substitute for the real thing, fitted with static filter elements that have to be discarded
5) What is bile and how do molecules and other nanoscale objects find their way to the bile duct

Can genetic engineering be brought to bear on the problem of designing a biological system that takes in dirty water and separates it into clean water with needed minerals and "bile" that contains all the undesirable substances that were suspended in the water.

Ideally, the biological system would NOT require use of static filters, but instead would process incoming flow without being contaminated by any of it.

(th)

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