New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#51 2020-11-06 06:03:58

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

For SpaceNut re #50


Thanks for taking a look at the Perseverance talk, and part of Dr. Zubrin's introduction.  I listened to the Zubrin talk (again) with audio only, and consider it a useful snapshot of the ideas and positions that are central to the Mars Society theme.  After the opening presentation, Dr. Zubrin took several questions, one of which was about radiation protection on Mars.  I appreciate hearing his endorsement of living underground. 

(th)

Offline

#52 2020-11-06 20:32:59

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The focus for November 7 (Earth Calendar) is Video #5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-pzvwx … AF&index=5

Dr. Chris McKay - Prerequisites to Human Activity on Mars - 23rd Annual Mars Society Convention

This talk includes slides.

(th)

Offline

#53 2020-11-07 22:53:27

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

Got only half way through Dr Chris McKay video with the big take away is that we are on the slow train to show proof that life does not exist on mars. But how can you do that for a planet size body with rovers and sample returns that only cover a really small area if the surface and beneath it as we have found life deep even within earth....
The fear to contaminate mars or to bring alien life back to earth means we will never go.....

Offline

#54 2020-11-09 08:20:00

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The focus for November 9 (Earth Calendar) is Video #6

Dr. Carol Stoker - Potential Habitats for Life on Mars - 27:27 minutes

Direct link is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Ri-OF … AF&index=6

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-11-09 08:51:39)

Offline

#55 2020-11-09 19:53:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

I go a chance to watch the moxie taping and there are number issues for scaling the experimental unit sent to mars and the reality of what can be delivered...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2V5KS_ … AF&index=7

Sorry that I watched one out of sequence

Offline

#56 2020-11-09 19:59:05

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

For SpaceNut ... if you can catch part of the talk by Dr. Carol Stoker, you might like the maps of water (in various states) that are included. The talk includes discussion of the change of the axis of rotation of Mars over millions of years.

(th)

Offline

#57 2020-11-09 20:48:25

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The Dr Chris McKay video should have gotten into the content that Dr. Carol Stoker suggests for possible locations in which to weed out the chances of finding life that would make it so man could never go to mars.

Of course the presence of organics do raise the question if we do find them as to whether there is still a possibility in which life could still be present. Even the harshness of the moon showed that it could survive decades under the shielded conditions so its possible that it could still be there. Which is where it is at the 7 minute mark in the video.

Of the chemical test at 5 minutes in depending on sample content a false indication could have happened but I would think that its a real random chance that it got it just right for that to happen.

Other than the rovers to test samples scooped up we are looking with a radar system that detects hydrogen and not directly water.

The maps at about 12 minutes is the low lying areas of which atmospheric pressure would possibly allow for water but it would be a brine since it would freeze. Where mostly the northern hemisphere contained a plausible ocean from early on in maps history.

As it stands the rover missions are just not designed or cheap enough to send more to mars to do what a man could do in sheer minutes of stepping foot on the mars surface.

Offline

#58 2020-11-11 21:11:27

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The focus for today (November 11th) is Video #7:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2V5KS_ … AF&index=7

MOXIE - Dr. Michael Hecht, JPL - 23rd Annual International Mars Society Convention

The session opens with the prospect of a crew flight in 2037.

(th)

Offline

#59 2020-11-12 19:17:21

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

For SpaceNut re Moxie video...

I just finished the Moxie video ... It has enough slides and animation to make viewing worth while.  However, I'm planning to listen audio only in hopes the quality of the sound will be a bit better on my equipment.  The questions at the end of the  talk resulted in the confirmation that the lower the production instrument is located on Mars the better, because the density increases.  Another question had to do with suitability for use of Moxie on Venus, and there was an answer but I couldn't quite make it out so will try again later.

(th)

Offline

#60 2020-11-12 19:38:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The moxie and only moxie topic where the numbers on the slides are still drifting but within reason.

The issue for mars is increased dust and dirt to filter before the unit gets the clean co2 it needs to be able to process. The scaled up version for man would be ok as we would be there with adequate filters to change as needed to keep it working.

The only difference for venus is the greater pressure and other contaminants that could cause it to fail early due to them.

Offline

#61 2020-11-12 20:00:38

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

For SpaceNut re #60

I'll schedule an audio only session with that video, to see if I can pick up the issue regarding filters, and the concern about dust.  It makes sense that would be an issue.

I did pick up that the production unit would be set up in the lowest possible location on Mars to increase the available air pressure so the compressor has less work to do, but the elevation on Mars would not by itself help with the issue of dirt to be removed before the CO2 is pushed into the electrolyte to separate one of the Oxygen atoms from the CO2 molecule.

Since the production unit is expected to work for almost a year to produce 25 tons of Oxygen, the engineers will have had to have solved the filter problem.

In another topic, we've been talking about caves recently.  I'm wondering if locating the production Moxie unit inside a cave would help to cut down on dust in the air, since the air inside a cave would be (or at least ** should be ** ) still compared to the out doors.

(th)

Offline

#62 2020-11-13 08:35:19

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The focus for today is Video #8

Mars 2020 and Sample Return - Dr. Adrian Brown - 23rd Annual International Mars Society Convention

Direct link is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyB58zj … AF&index=8

(th)

Offline

#63 2020-11-14 19:20:49

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

This is a follow up to Post #62 for Video 8 of 129

Dr. Brown showed how the Australian geohistory is informing planning for the Mars 2020 mission.

A tiny bit of an Australian sample is included in a set of color spots for calibration of cameras on Perseverance.

A detail of the sample return design came out due to a question after the main presentation.  The containers for samples are made of Titanium.

Another question led to confirmation that the samples are to be returned to an advanced secure facility on Earth, without a hold over in Earth orbit.

I would imagine this decision flows from the mechanics of slowing a vehicle returning from Mars using atmospheric braking. 

If I caught the information correctly, the proposed/planned facility would be somewhere in Australia.

Every precaution will be taken to protect the samples from contamination, and to protect the Earth from the samples.

(th)

Offline

#64 2020-11-15 15:32:13

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The focus for today, November 15, 2020 (Earth Calendar) is Video #9:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlkslzb … AF&index=9

Mars InSight - Mark Panning - 23rd Annual International Mars Society Convention

(th)

Offline

#65 2020-11-15 19:43:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

Finally got to view the videos 8 & 9 which really talk to what we have on the planets with curiosity and of Insight. In which we are learn as to how closely couple mars and earths timelines of development are. Followed by the changes made to the baseline rover curiosity in what we have learned for the longevity of the rover and implementation of the experiments and testing to all for the sample return of the future with the selective cache that it will create.
This is so painfully slow using the rovers to tell if the past and current mars shows or is alive....

Offline

#66 2020-11-16 19:02:49

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The Focus for November 17 and 18 is Video #10

Direct link is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nacBlW … F&index=10

John Grunsfeld - Astronauts Can Do Great Science - 23rd Annual International Mars Society Convention

(th)

Offline

#67 2020-11-18 22:26:41

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

For SpaceNut re Video 10

If you get a chance to fit Video 10 into your schedule, I think you'll enjoy it ... John Grunsfeld flew several times to repair the Hubble, and his presentation included terrific pictures of the sky and of Mars, as well as views of repair missions.  In the Q&A at minute 20 (or so) he commented that space craft should be built to be repaired and he mentioned modular design in particular.  At minute 26 (or so) he suggested that human flights to Mars should include quality telescopes for travelers to use, because the "night" sky is as good as it can get, and passengers will be able to spend hours observing faint objects.

In the case of RobertDyck's Large Ship, the solution to the rotation of the ship might be to install a counter-rotating observer's hut, or (as a more ambitious suggestion) allow the captain's gig to take observers out for sorties to make observations while the gig is stilled to stabilize the view.

Another possibility (thinking out loud) might be to provide a probe that would fly alongside the ship and provide wireless communication of observations by a CCD camera.  That way, the passengers could observe from the comfort (and safety) of the habitat, and enjoy ultra high quality (Hubble quality) images to flow into their VR displays.

(th)

Offline

#68 2020-11-18 22:30:46

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The focus for November 19th (Earth Calendar) is Video 11:

S. Pete Worden - Breakthrough Initiatives - 23rd Annual International Mars Society Convention

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FiCKuY … F&index=11

Simon Peter "Pete" Worden was Director of NASA's Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, California, until his retirement on March 31, 2015. Prior to joining NASA, he held several positions in the United States Air Force and was research professor of astronomy at the University of Arizona, Tucson. Wikipedia

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-11-18 22:32:25)

Offline

#69 2020-11-19 19:40:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

video #10
We have had several save the Hubble topics and at one time I had direct contact to the Tiger team looking at how to provide a safe haven for if a shuttle was damaged on launch.

Since the cradle and exit air lock was all that would be in the shuttles cargo hold, I had suggested a stripped down Soyuz for a safe haven return ship once damage was found. They went with the two shuttle launch standby for making a safe return possible.

All said and done the Hubble could see another refurbishment and upgrades with the help of a mission designed around use of any of the capsules and a modified cradle canadian arm assembly attached to a modified Cygnus supply habitat unit to allow for the number of space walks to bring it back up to working condition for another couple of decades.

Offline

#70 2020-11-20 22:14:05

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

This is a follow up to Post #68 Video #11

S. Pete Worden - Breakthrough Initiatives - 23rd Annual International Mars Society Convention

This was an interesting talk, from my perspective.  At minute 25 (or so) Dr. Worden mentioned the prospect of sending packages back and forth between Earth and Mars using the high powered laser design that is in development to push a probe to Alpha Centauri.  This is the first mention (that I have heard) of that idea. It would seem most applicable for very high value items such as medicine, but there might be something else that would be of sufficient value to justify the expense of the system.

Dr. Worden also mentioned an initiative to try to create a probe using Rocket Lab, that would capture a bit of the atmosphere of Venus (where phosgene appears to exist) and bring it back to Earth.

Dr. Worden mentioned controversy that occurred in connection with the One Hundred Year Starship conference.

Apparently a conservative lawmaker took exception to the expenditure of public funds for this initiative.

(th)

Offline

#71 2020-11-20 22:14:40

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The focus for November 21 and 22 is Video #12 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXl3vGp … F&index=12

Dr. Michael Griffin - Former NASA Administrator - 23rd Annual International Mars Society Convention

I note that the total count of videos was recently increased from 129 to 130

Edit#1: For SpaceNut .... Dr. Griffin's talk would work well on your phone, if that is a convenient way for you to catch it.

Dr. Griffen's Q&A included participation by Dr. Zubrin.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-11-21 20:17:58)

Offline

#72 2020-11-22 16:09:30

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

Well my wandering has come upon another treasure trove http://www.marspapers.org/#/papers

Offline

#73 2020-11-22 18:35:15

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

For SpaceNut re #72 .... thanks for the link to this impressive web page!  I was happy to see entries for 2020, capping the series from the 1990's.

It seems likely that papers from the 2020 Convention will eventually make there way into this archive.

(th)

Offline

#74 2020-11-23 18:42:01

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The focus for November 23 and 24 (Earth Calendar) is Video #13:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZNUI8u … F&index=13

Dr. Alan Stern - New Horizons: The Farthest Exploration of Worlds - 23rd Mars Society Convention

The Mars Society gave this presentation a full hour.  It includes details of the multi-year campaign, and numerous images and graphs.

(th)

Offline

#75 2020-11-25 12:11:41

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: 2020 Mars Society Convention

The focus for November 25 and 26 is Video #14:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFTbn5m … F&index=14


Mars University Panel - 23rd Annual International Mars Society Convention


This is another 1 hour video.

(th)

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB