Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

a regular idiot · 2012-01-01 00:15:05

What if we were to get some of the dirt off of Mars and try a small scale experiment on re-nourishing it?
If there is some vegetation on Earth that has the ability to re-nourish infertile soil why couldn't we use it to test and see if we can re-nourish the soil on mars.
In doing this we could possibly put plants on Mars to create a sustainable atmosphere naturally.

Has anyone ever thought of that?

Terraformer · 2012-01-01 04:14:59

Hmm... are you talking about seeing if it's possible to grow plant's in Martian soil? It's been done, though as I'm on my BlackBerry I can't post a link. The hyperoxide nature of the soil is dealt with by simply wetting it.

If you're talking about getting plants to grow in current Martian conditions, forget it. Ice is permanently frozen - save for when it turns to gas because the pressure is so low.

louis · 2012-01-01 08:32:43

Terraformer wrote:

Hmm... are you talking about seeing if it's possible to grow plant's in Martian soil? It's been done, though as I'm on my BlackBerry I can't post a link. The hyperoxide nature of the soil is dealt with by simply wetting it.
If you're talking about getting plants to grow in current Martian conditions, forget it. Ice is permanently frozen - save for when it turns to gas because the pressure is so low.

I think you probably mean Mars "analogue" soil i.e. soil created on Earth to mimic the soil on Mars (the content of which has been determined from various robot missions).

Of course on Mars we can use human faeces and waste matter from plants to enrich the soil - in other words mount a recycling operation in terms of food use and production.
We may have to take quite sizeable amounts of fertiliser powder with us to begin with as I beleive Mars soil does not have the full range of trace elements and minerals we would want in our soil.

I think there are questions of what could grow in one third gravity,but experiments with growing plants in space suggest there should be a range of foods we could grow.

GW Johnson · 2012-01-01 09:58:38

Martian dirt with human garbage and sewage would be fertile enough to growth Earth-type vegetation, given water and sufficient atmosphere. I doubt 0.38 gee is that much a problem for vegetation, might still be insufficient for human health, we just don't know yet. The UV environment there is more than just a mite harsh for the plants. It would take some kind of transparent dome over your vegetable patch, one that filters out some but not all the UV. Tough structural design and materials selection problem; the "dome" might not end up being dome-shaped. I dunno what atmosphere might serve; it might not be breathable by us. Fair fraction of an atmosphere total, but less than one, would likely do. Lots of experiments could be down down here to see what might work. Harsh UV can be simulated with lamps. Even radiation can be used. Just not the lower gee, and it ain't zero, so experiments on ISS won't be very informative.

Just some odd thoughts.

GW

SpaceNut · 2012-01-01 21:28:18

There are also many plants that can be grown upside down to aid in root nourishment. Plus then there is hydroponic and other methods to be explored....I believe the claim for the polar lander the Pheonix was that the nutrients found in the soil would be good for Asparagus but other plants like strawberries may not be able to thrive on the alkaline soil.

H2O at the Phoenix Landing Site

Evidence for Calcium Carbonate at the Mars Phoenix Landing Site

Detection of Perchlorate and the Soluble Chemistry of Martian Soil at the Phoenix Lander Site

louis · 2012-01-01 21:50:04

GW Johnson wrote:

Martian dirt with human garbage and sewage would be fertile enough to growth Earth-type vegetation, given water and sufficient atmosphere. I doubt 0.38 gee is that much a problem for vegetation, might still be insufficient for human health, we just don't know yet. The UV environment there is more than just a mite harsh for the plants. It would take some kind of transparent dome over your vegetable patch, one that filters out some but not all the UV. Tough structural design and materials selection problem; the "dome" might not end up being dome-shaped. I dunno what atmosphere might serve; it might not be breathable by us. Fair fraction of an atmosphere total, but less than one, would likely do. Lots of experiments could be down down here to see what might work. Harsh UV can be simulated with lamps. Even radiation can be used. Just not the lower gee, and it ain't zero, so experiments on ISS won't be very informative.
Just some odd thoughts.
GW

I am pretty convinced by all I have read that for the first few missions we should run with artificial lighting under UV protection...mariju*na plants do just great in such artificial conditions on Earth....let's apply that knowledge to Mars!

I was only referencing zero G experiments in the sense that they suggest a lot of plants still manage to grow and germinate. I would agree that with third gee we should see pretty good plant performance, but of course no one knows for sure.

louis · 2012-01-01 21:51:06

SpaceNut wrote:

There are also many plants that can be grown upside down to aid in root nourishment. Plus then there is hydroponic and other methods to be explored....I believe the claim for the polar lander the Pheonix was that the nutrients found in the soil would be good for Asparagus but other plants like strawberries may not be able to thrive on the alkaline soil.

H2O at the Phoenix Landing Site
Evidence for Calcium Carbonate at the Mars Phoenix Landing Site
Detection of Perchlorate and the Soluble Chemistry of Martian Soil at the Phoenix Lander Site

I'm a fan of hydroponic cultivation for Mars.

Grypd · 2012-01-02 06:00:18

The biggest problem we have with growing plants on Mars is that the light levels equate to winter dusk here on earth. This needless to say means we need to modify plants to become much more efficient and that tends towards plants which will not be green.

So yes we will have to experiment here on Earth to genetically modify plants that will not only grow on Mars but thrive.

Terraformer · 2012-01-02 06:04:06

Plants manage to thrive in such conditions here on Terra - potato ants are grown in the shade, and understorey plants in woodland get quite low lights levels...

Grypd · 2012-01-02 06:22:49

Potato plants do grow in shade but those that grow in the light are healthier and provide better larger potatoes.

Still we need to genetically modify our plants to become more efficient in the very low light levels that we will find and we dont need to go to Mars to do it. For instance Chlorophyll just what will be the most efficient type and just what can we do to increase its production while of course ensuring we get the best possible crop returns. Still we may input sea weed and sea grasses into the mix these tend to not need as much light as surface plants.

Or do we make hybrids with plants that dont use sunlight to increase there growth potential.

Still it will be something extremely worthwhile to do in preparation for going to Mars

Glandu · 2012-01-02 08:15:02

Or we need giant mirrors to feed our plants with more light. Kind of aluminium sheets, no need of heavy things. If we go the "under roof" road, collecting the light & transmitting it through glassfiber could be useful to spare other sources of light/energy(to be studied, just an idea that comes like that).

Grypd · 2012-01-02 09:22:04

That is true extra reflected light is an option and one we can use but working on these plants is a good idea all on its own. Just how many farms do we have on the tundras of earth with there lack of daylight.

And of course we can create very CO2 rich enviroment greenhouses for the plants as well.

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-25 09:54:06

This topic has been hibernating since 2012. Now is as good a time as any to bring it back.

In another topic, the possibility of growing lawn/turf in small sections indoors during the winter on Earth was brought up.

I ran a quick check with Amazon, and found a wide variety of LED grow lights on offer. There were far more then were present the previous time I checked, and the prices (and performance) ranged from what I could afford to what Bill Gates could afford.

it would appear to be practical for Earth-bound experimenters to build small growing facilities in their homes or apartments if there is enough room to spare.

In order for the experiments to have scientific merit, records would be kept and reported for study and comparison.

A very small version of RobertDyck's Large Ship could be launched to deliver Mars simulated gravity.

Instead of being 19 meters wide as would be the standard for such a structure, the experimental version could be a couple of meters wide, so a set of plant trays could be packaged in the rim, with a walkway between.

The distinct advantage of such a structure is that it could be assembled from upper stages of launch vehicles.

There are examples in this forum, of designs based upon the idea of welding rocket bodies together to make a ring.

(th)

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#1 2012-01-01 00:15:05

Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#2 2012-01-01 04:14:59

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#3 2012-01-01 08:32:43

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#4 2012-01-01 09:58:38

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#5 2012-01-01 21:28:18

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#6 2012-01-01 21:50:04

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#7 2012-01-01 21:51:06

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#8 2012-01-02 06:00:18

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#9 2012-01-02 06:04:06

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#10 2012-01-02 06:22:49

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#11 2012-01-02 08:15:02

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#12 2012-01-02 09:22:04

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

#13 2020-10-25 09:54:06

Re: Could a small scale experiment work for life on mars????

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