Musk Mars Society interview

Void · 2020-10-24 20:07:35

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As a "So far" tollerated member here, I hesitate to enter into deep waters. Still, from the shallow end of the pool, I observe some things, while not in denial of what is presented as real by the better capable members.
At the start, I observe that SN8 is a prototype, and although SpaceX has come a long way, their efforts at this time must be "To do it at all". So, they probabbly allow a bit of overkill per dry mass and also have not perfected the "Art", to understand where they can reduce the overkill.
SN8 also being a prototype is also rather generic. It would not be sensible to push propellants to orbit with the machine.
I read that Elon Musk said that the propellant ships will look strange. If you make a propellant variant, it will not have the dry mass for lifting cargo or to have cabin space. This should be able to reduce dry mass on the way up. Also, on the way down, it will be basically a hollow shell, except for the header tanks.
I read that Elon Musk said that the propellant ships may not even need skydiving fins. However, that is "May Not". But I am guessing that if it has them, they will be less massive, and so will present less dry mass to lift, and less air drag on the way up.
So, you then have a mostly hollow shell comming down, it may be that the heat shield may be a bit less heavy.
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Someone here mentioned the notion that SpaceX may also have a type of Depot ship. I cannot see a reason why such would not be given enough solar assets to do active cooling.
If I were to speculate on the design of such a ship, I would hope, and I do say hope, to have it be a hollow shell on Orbit, and to have hybrid engines, that although not efficient for either sea level or vaccum preformance, might do. After all, all you would want to do is get it to LEO. Perhaps you might land it on rare occasions, but mostly it would be in space, not firing it's raptors.
Now with extreme speculation, I propose that you might make a variation of that, that you mated with a solar pannel/air braking system, which would never come down. Such a variant, might move a full load up to higher orbits using ion propulsion for efficiency, to fuel missions. To come back home, (LEO), after refueling a starship then ion drive to get to the fringes of atmosphere, and then aerobraking with the fortified solar pannel assembly, to achieve LEO again. For that maneuver, firing chemical engines might be part of the method.
So, I do think you have to make account of the possibility of perfection of art over time, and the use of specialized variants, to achieve what could be possible.
The situation should not be considered as without hope.
Done.

SpaceNut · 2020-10-25 09:03:04

The concept of the altered starship for a specific tanker design makes sense since it would gain propellant mass to orbit for filling up the on orbit starship. It would also make sense to do the same for the Falcon heavy to be a launch providing plat form since we know that its capable of at a minimum of 63 mTs as well at probably a lower cost but that is still an unknown.

Any starship of Falcon modified second stage would need a separate propellant tank to hold the fuels for payload delivery to the awaiting starship. It will need some sort of pump to move the fuel as well into the starship and a connecting hose or automated boom as we would not want any space walks to be required to refuel the starship with.

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Void · 2020-10-25 09:21:43

It is looking like a plan they might pull off, but I expect Elon Time. Which is faster than my time. I don't have any spaceships

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I found this today. History of BFR/Starship, and some intersting information.
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020/10 … on-rocket/
-There is indeed plans for Starships that function as in space Depots.
-In the article it is suggested that the Propellant Starship will have some lifting air body functions, and pehaps some small fins for guidance. I am pussled how they pressurize this one though. I do recall that they don't need as big a safety margin for uncrewed ships as per pressure.
-Also there seems to be an indication that the propellant starship will have ~40% less dry mass, then normal Starships. Don't hold me to that. I believe I read it in the article last night in passing. I am guessing that the Depots might have less dry mass as well.
Done.

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-25 09:26:23

For SpaceNut re #27

Recently, in this topic or another, there was discussion of options for SpaceX Starship missions to Mars ...

Your post here triggered a thought that might encourage someone to evaluate it for feasibility ...

On Earth, it has been practice for many decades, to attach auxiliary fuel tanks to existing vehicles to extend their range.

I have suggested (perhaps in another topic) that it would make sense to give a fully fueled Starship a push from Earth LEO, so it does not have to use any of it's own fuel to depart Earth.

However, that idea has the disadvantage that the pusher vehicle has to have enough fuel and oxidizer on board to be able to return to LEO.

That is certainly practical, as the Falcon 9 has proved.

However, there ** is ** the alternative of attaching extra fuel and oxidizer tanks to the Starship before it departs. ** Those ** tanks would empty, and they would travel to Mars along with the Starship.

At Mars, they could be detached and saved for future use (at Phobos for example), while the fully fueled Starship is able to use fuel to dock with Phobos, or to achieve orbit around Mars, without having to risk flight through the atmosphere.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-06-29 18:40:42

Musk now posts scifi tv shows and movies online

very interesting seeing Will Patton cast

Musk, he said in our real world he is committed to Mars, 1 year to go for human supporting 'cargo'

The Ego gets a massage
Elon Musk treated like a rock star during China trip: ‘He’s a global idol’
https://nypost.com/2023/05/31/elon-musk … obal-idol/
Billionaire Elon Musk was showered with praise during a trip to China this week, with people on social media calling him “a pioneer,” “Brother Ma” and “a global idol”

There is a difference between the Utopia outlook of Jetsons and StarTrek and Dystopia of Robocop, BladeRunner, Silo, Terminator...if there is a simple difference to be explained to someone who has never experience scifi then I feel maybe its glass half full, half empty, one inspires by looking outward the other exploits the darker part of humanity and looks inward.

In scifi some newmars users and I personally have posted how I think S.Korea maybe culturally moved ahead of hollywood on fringe fantasy science fiction ideas, Hollywood used to inspire but maybe not so much these days and 'Twitter' the social media giant and social networking service owned and now operated by American company X Corp now offering hour long videos

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1673831774038949888

I had read some of 'Silo' the science fiction dystopian, Hugh Howey did 'Wool' as a stand alone short story as first, many, many books I feel they read ok, he is a skilled writer but put I personally the books down, maybe it was too dark for my personal tastes.
I have tried reading many books, some series I left unfinished.

Elon Musk has an interesting journey, in his life story part of his geographical trip he moved from S.Africa to America and becomes an industry leader in the United States of America, in mid-2015, 'Silo' writer Howey went the other way and gave up his home in Florida, and moved to St Francis Bay, Eastern Cape, South Africa, these books were not 'bad' in fact they are good but not to my personal taste.

Sport Arena?
'a terrible idea'
https://www.theregister.com/2023/06/29/ … ied_fight/

on twitter

'entire first episode.'

maybe entire movies and shows have been posted on twitter, this is the first time I am aware of its potential as a media source.

48.7 M Views

Elon Musk himself as a media brand is easily one of the Most-followed accounts outside of super-Celebrity and Sports Star and Musicians who can rank ahead of Musk on followings, his name as a 'brand' is not number 1, for example Sony Entertainment Television India or Ariana Grande or 'PewDiePie' might pop up as a suggestion in vid internet feed more than 'Musk'

My personal reaction I think it is
Very interesting to see what scifi Elon Musk shared

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-06-29 19:21:17)

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#26 2020-10-24 20:07:35

Re: Musk Mars Society interview

#27 2020-10-25 09:03:04

Re: Musk Mars Society interview

#28 2020-10-25 09:21:43

Re: Musk Mars Society interview

#29 2020-10-25 09:26:23

Re: Musk Mars Society interview

#30 2023-06-29 18:40:42

Re: Musk Mars Society interview

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