Lockheed Martin Mars Base Camp concept

SpaceNut · 2018-09-09 16:54:45

Lockheed Martin adds lander to Mars Base Camp concept

Some simularities to the BFS sytems second stage..

The original architecture, which the company unveiled last year, called for the development of a modular spacecraft that could carry six people into Mars orbit and back. Lockheed believed that the system, which made use of the Orion spacecraft and other elements, could be ready to send people to Mars as soon as 2028.
The single-stage lander uses aerodynamics to reduce most of its velocity while descending to the surface. That can be done, the company said, using materials similar to that used on the high-speed SR-71 jet that are not ablative and do not require to be replaced after each mission.
Liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen engines handle the rest of the landing as well as takeoff back to Martian orbit. The vehicle weighs 30 metric tons dry and can carry 80 metric tons of propellant, with a total delta-v, or change in velocity, of 6 kilometers per second from its engines.
“You can fuel up in orbit and have enough for a two- or three-week stay on the surface with up to four crew,” said Rob Chambers, one of the Mars Base Camp designers, in an interview at the conference prior to the presentation. The lander could be then refueled and flown again, he said, with up to three trips to the surface per mission to Mars. He said the lander is intended to support at least six sorties to the Martian surface over its life.

So we can use materials that were use on the SR-71 for the heat of mars entry.....once we land on mars the first time in order to do hops to other sites....

louis · 2018-09-09 18:23:02

80 tonnes of propellant to lift 30 tonnes? That doesn't sound right...

SpaceNut wrote:

Lockheed Martin adds lander to Mars Base Camp concept
Some simularities to the BFS sytems second stage..
https://spacenews.com/wp-content/upload … 79x485.jpg
The original architecture, which the company unveiled last year, called for the development of a modular spacecraft that could carry six people into Mars orbit and back. Lockheed believed that the system, which made use of the Orion spacecraft and other elements, could be ready to send people to Mars as soon as 2028.
The single-stage lander uses aerodynamics to reduce most of its velocity while descending to the surface. That can be done, the company said, using materials similar to that used on the high-speed SR-71 jet that are not ablative and do not require to be replaced after each mission.
Liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen engines handle the rest of the landing as well as takeoff back to Martian orbit. The vehicle weighs 30 metric tons dry and can carry 80 metric tons of propellant, with a total delta-v, or change in velocity, of 6 kilometers per second from its engines.
“You can fuel up in orbit and have enough for a two- or three-week stay on the surface with up to four crew,” said Rob Chambers, one of the Mars Base Camp designers, in an interview at the conference prior to the presentation. The lander could be then refueled and flown again, he said, with up to three trips to the surface per mission to Mars. He said the lander is intended to support at least six sorties to the Martian surface over its life.
So we can use materials that were use on the SR-71 for the heat of mars entry.....once we land on mars the first time in order to do hops to other sites....

kbd512 · 2018-09-09 19:21:07

Louis,

Are you starting to understand how much more energetic LOX/LH2 is than LOX/LCH4 propellant and why you might want to use it in an upper stage?

When I said I thought BFS should use LOX/LH2 as the propellant combo, this is why. Apart from dynamic loading from the atmosphere and thrust of the engines, the crushing weight of carbon in the fuel drives the inert mass of the upper stage. The bulk density of LOX/LH2 really is lighter than any other propellant combination for a given total impulse, which is why it's used so extensively in upper stages, and the structural / tankage mass penalty associated with LH2's low density doesn't approach the mass penalty associated with using less energetic propellants containing carbon. If you want an upper stage that's not significantly larger than the current BFS design for the same performance and at a lower inert mass fraction, then you should use LH2 to reap the benefits of use.

There are always drawbacks associated with any rocket fuel and LH2 is no different in that regard. However, there's nothing related to the use of LH2 that's beyond our understanding or capabilities. It's an exceptionally well proven, characterized, and understood rocket fuel and the only three things required to manufacture it in mass quantities are water, fuel cells, and electricity. Again, this uses current technology, rather than something that simply doesn't exist. The ease of CH4 extraction from the ground here on Earth means there's not been much development to synthesize CH4 using the Sabatier reaction or any other method beyond tabletop lab experiments. In contrast, many decades of intense research and development has been devoted to the manufacture of H2 from a variety of sources.

Similarly, while I believe RP-1 is one of the most well proven and understood booster fuels available, LCH4 is the best compromise available for a booster stage. Apart from being moderately cryogenic but similar in temperature to our universal oxidizer (LOX), LCH4 provides all the best attributes of a booster fuel in spades. LCH4 is about as good as it gets, in that regard. Unfortunately, it's just not optimal for upper stages where specific impulse becomes far more important than thrust and manufacture at some place other than Earth has to be considered.

Void · 2018-09-09 20:06:41

Hope you won't mind my presence.

I think that I am becoming more and more happy.

I would think that something like BFR lifting many supplies to orbit from the Earth, and this new Lockheed ship lifting supplies from the Moon could really jump start a interplanetary activities process. Add in some others, and options expand a lot.

Really I have moved rather close to Dr. Zubrins thinking per BFR/BFS. And now it appears that it may not even be the best machine to access the Moon. So, it would be best used in the Earths gravity well, and the orbital Moons gravity well perhaps.

And then a lander fueled from Martian orbit. I am much more comfortable with that, at least in the beginning. Perhaps later there could be a BFS using Methane on Mars, tuned for Mars. I wonder if it would be needed though.

What is really needed other than BFR/BFS in Earths gravity well and this new Lockheed machine for small planetary landings would be a true interplanetary spaceship method. Say something with artificial gravity, and magnetic + mass radiation protection for a crew. Also robotic cargo carriers.

LOP-G is sort of in that path, but I do wonder if it could be better done to develop what is needed elsewhere than where they intend to put it. And honestly I think we may be ready to start using synthetic gravity and magnetic radiation protection methods.

This could maintain compliance with Dr. Zubrins idea of mostly sending stuff to Mars, by in fact building land in Earth Orbit (Synthetic Gravity Machines), and mostly moving them to Mars orbit or in some cases the Materials might be used in the passage to Mars, and repurposed in the orbit of Mars, or even the Martian surface later.

Of course I am beating my own drum, Per the current Alternate BFR, per lifted shells and Bigelow hubs. I'm a pest if I want to be.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2018-09-09 20:16:45)

SpaceNut · 2020-08-20 18:49:18

wow bump found 2 topic nearly of the same information

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2018-09-09 16:54:45

Lockheed Martin Mars Base Camp concept

#2 2018-09-09 18:23:02

Re: Lockheed Martin Mars Base Camp concept

#3 2018-09-09 19:21:07

Re: Lockheed Martin Mars Base Camp concept

#4 2018-09-09 20:06:41

Re: Lockheed Martin Mars Base Camp concept

#5 2020-08-20 18:49:18

Re: Lockheed Martin Mars Base Camp concept

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