New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#401 2020-05-13 07:46:02

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,199

Re: Election Meddling

Supreme Court to debate whether 'faithless electors' can stay in the Electoral College

A broken system when a state must give all votes to a candidate that does not win them all just as much as being forced to vote against ones conscious...

Online

#402 2020-05-13 09:19:00

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,074

Re: Election Meddling

For SpaceNut re #401

Thanks for the alert about this important debate ...

We (US citizens) have evolved substantially away from the Founders' original intent, as I understand it.  At the time (and obviously still today) substantial numbers of citizens are simply unprepared to make important decisions about the future of the Nation.  As I understand the original idea, uneducated citizens would elect representatives who would (hopefully with benefit of intelligence, education and perhaps even wisdom) select the President.  Thus, at the beginning, the idea of an elector being "faithless" would not have made sense. 

Now, (as I understand the situation), the Electors are merely stand-ins for the voters, who pick declared Electors as a way of indicating preference for a particular candidate.

It seems to me that this is a situation that needs to be resolved by Constitutional Amendment.  I would expect the Supreme Court to follow the intention of the Founders, and reject the 'faithless Elector' concept.

The ONE thing the Electoral College achieves is to give rural populations a competitive influence in Congress, and (occasionally) in selecting the President.

I would expect a proposal to amend the Constitution to fail, simply because the rural States would (and do) control the outcome.

(th)

Offline

#403 2020-05-13 14:11:58

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,561

Re: Election Meddling

tahanson43206,

The purpose of the Electoral College is to prevent a majority population's politics from some specific State of the Union from deciding who is elected President.  If California voters could muster 1 more vote than the other 49 states combined, then should California voters alone decide who the President is?  If yes, then you can all but ignore the will of the people from the other 49 states and spend most of your time and money pandering to California voters.  My personal opinion is that that's NOT representative government, but others disagree (because they REALLY want their way, and to hell with anyone who doesn't subscribe to every part of their ideology).

In any event, Democrats make every attempt to subvert the will of the people whenever it conflicts with their ideology or desire to seize power from legitimate (supported by the people) authority.  A good example, also from California, is Proposition 8 from 2008, regarding same-sex marriage.  The voters living there rejected the proposal to permit same-sex marriages, so the Democrats ran off to the Supreme Court to find a judge that would rule in their favor.  Beyond that, they also publicly disclosed who voted against allowing same-sex marriages to target people who didn't vote the way they thought they should.  If their employers disagreed with their employees' personal voting record, then they lost their jobs.  If their employers agreed or just didn't care either way, then they threatened to murder (the language of the threats made direct reference to support for Proposition 8) or vandalize the homes and businesses of those who opposed same-sex marriage.  In general, the vandalization was limited to LGBT activists throwing bricks through windows and doors at churches, or their members' cars, and spray-painting their epithets on those peoples' homes and churches.  You know, run-of-the-mill petty street violence.

As someone who believes in personal liberties and freedom- for everyone and irrespective of personal ideology / sex / race / creed / etc, I don't think any government has any business whatsoever determining who can marry who, but that's just my own personal ideology at play.  However, that same belief in liberty runs squarely against the belief by some that a human baby, whether that baby has passed between it's mothers legs and "magic happened", or not, should never be murdered- especially using the tax payers' money.  It also means I allow both communists and nazis (just different sides of the same coin) to speak their minds in public without threatening or otherwise trying to silence them.  Those of us who claim to have better ideas than they do, and I'm pretty sure that I do, will use our own freedom of speech to explain why their ideas are bad and why no governance policies should be based upon them.

Liberty's funny thing in that way.  It tends to make you unpopular with everyone who just wants a dictatorship to their liking.  In my estimation, there are far too many Americans who would vote for a dictatorship to their liking.  My assertion is that our non-educational system failed them.  Long term, even a form of servitude that you agree with isn't a very good system.  Freedom isn't free and maintaining a free society isn't an easy thing to do.  It's tumultuous and uncertain.  There was a time in American history when "government" was just as dirty as any other four-letter word.  The notion that "more government" will solve all of life's problems is a self-evident absurdity.  No matter how much or how little of it that you get, all of life's problems are still there.

Anyway, dictatorship to their liking is what the mob-rule wing of the Democrat Party wants, as do the assorted radicals in the Republican Party.  Any time the rules don't produce the result they want, they want to change the rules and they'll commit acts of violence against otherwise peaceful people who don't support their ideology.  If the kkk / neo nazis / antifa people in this world are such a threat to our way of life that we can't at least allow them to voice their opinions, however ignorant or distasteful we may find them, then it means we lack the ability to articulate better ideas.  I can't speak for anyone else, but I think my command of the English language and my ability to argue ideas are more than sufficient to counter them.  I don't need to play word games or try to make them look stupid to make logically congruent rebuttals to their arguments, either.  They'll do that all on their own when they can't respond to my arguments with anything other than angry or spiteful rhetoric or mindless repetition of their ideology without an explanation as to why they believe what they believe.

That is the essence of what this is about.  The rest is just smoke-filled coffeehouse crap, to borrow a line from one of my favorite movies.  And yes, a lot of people can't handle the truth.  That's a recurring theme lately.  Instead of allowing young people to run smack into ideas that conflict with their own, we've instead decided to patronize or infantilize them to the point that they can't deal cards in the marketplace of ideas.  All those "safe spaces" aren't doing anyone any favors.  Without understanding at least two different viewpoints surrounding any particular issue, it's hard to imagine how anyone could possibly understand their own views.

Offline

#404 2020-05-21 16:07:13

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,199

Re: Election Meddling

The virus is causing quite the stir in light of the primaries that did votes even with some cleaning when they had an amount of people become infected. So its not a surprise to want to error on the side of caution for the voter by what ever means are reasonable.
Debate over Mail in Ballots

One thing is that a single day to vote is a turn off but how long should we drag getting the results out?
Plus getting the results of states that have closed there votes before yours is another thing that should not happen until yours is closed as well.

Online

#405 2020-06-03 19:04:23

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,199

Re: Election Meddling

Appears Trump tried and failed the first time to register to vote in Florida of which owning property to declare residency. What a joke to commit a crime and not be tried for false document creation.

Online

#407 2020-07-07 19:30:00

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,199

Re: Election Meddling

Laws on the books that should have been gone a long time ago.Jim Crow-era voting provision that critics say suppresses Black political power... Mississippians could vote to strike a Jim Crow-era voting process in November

The proposed constitutional change comes as state legislators faced mounting pressure and possible court action stemming from a June 2019 challenge to the Electoral College-type voting system.

Online

#408 2020-07-18 08:55:59

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,199

Re: Election Meddling

The recent twitter internal account attacks are showing that Biden: After intel briefings, warns of election interferenceUS intelligence agencies say Russia meddled in the 2016 election with the goal of swaying the contest

Online

#409 2020-08-01 17:42:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,199

Re: Election Meddling

What Happened to Stacey Abrams Will Happen to Joe Biden

November of 2018 laid out a winning dirty playbook that the GOP is about to roll out nationwide, with partisan officials charged with running state elections using voter suppression and disenfranchisement tactics to chip away at Democratic votes and the electoral process itself

Online

#410 2020-08-02 20:14:10

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,199

Online

#411 2020-08-03 21:06:33

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,199

Online

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB