New Mars Forums

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,221

Underwater Research Facility Space Habitat Simulation

There have been undersea research facilities on Earth before now.

This latest plan seems designed from the outset to provide significant parallels to life in Space or away from Earth.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/voyage- … 02447.html

SearchTerm:CosteauUndersea

The intention to build a greenhouse into the facility seems most applicable to the Mars situation.

The use of LED light seems likely (to me at this point) but perhaps there will be some sunlight penetrating down from the surface.

If that is the case, it would be supportive of Calliban's visions of underwater habitats on Mars, in one of Void's lakes.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-07-23 11:17:51)

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,756

Re: Underwater Research Facility Space Habitat Simulation

An interesting article. (th).

Dr. Robert Zubrin thinks that open sea Mariculture will be in the future for Earth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariculture
In this case nutrients are added to water, such as a form of Iron that would stimulate the growth, of Phytoplankton, Zooplankton, and then fish.

I also think that there may be a case for growing food plants in the sea, Kelp and such and perhaps some vascular plants.

I recall that experiments indicate that mesh structures that such could anchor to, did very well at a depth of about 6 feet.  That is a recollection from decades ago.

For that, I guess that you would need methods to lower the frames in stormy weather.  You may want to control what types of sea animals may have access to it as well.  So, for that, you would want control centers to monitor, and a repair crew to maintain the structures.

Growing plants should be rather productive, as for open sea Mariculture, the Zooplankton eat the Phytoplankton, and then at least 1 level of fish eat them before they would become food for people.  I believe that that is a reduction of biomass of about ~10/1 for each stage, so in the end ~1000/1 per unit of fish, at least.  Some cultures already like seaweed for food already.

And yes, someday if we have cheep fusion power, it may be that there will be artificial lighted gardens in the sea, and maybe even vascular terrestrial crops, in an air chamber.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2020-07-24 14:55:07)

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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,221

Re: Underwater Research Facility Space Habitat Simulation

For Void re #2

Thank you for noticing this new topic, and for your visions of mariculture on Earth!

I had to add that term to my dictionary!

This topic is offered for us (forum members and readers) to keep an eye on this research initiative.

I am particularly interested in the implications for Mars, in which case the underwater enclosed habitat greenhouse would be a better fit than the luxury of an ocean of water.

In other topics, you (in particular) have been developing visions of large quantities of water on Mars, and I can see how mariculture would fit in that kind of situation.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Underwater Research Facility Space Habitat Simulation

The topic title came up as number 3 in the search.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/prot … ch-center/
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/prote … index.html
https://www.dezeen.com/2020/07/22/prote … ves-behar/
https://www.fuseproject.com/blog/announ … nd-habitat
https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/07/2 … the-ocean/
https://listverse.com/2014/01/23/10-und … y-live-in/

Of course Nasa has been doing research for a long time
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/NEEM … index.html

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1870

elderflower

Member

Registered: 2016-06-19

Posts: 1,262

Re: Underwater Research Facility Space Habitat Simulation

For Void.
I understand that the 10:1 ratio for prey/predator applies where the predator is warm blooded. For cold blooded creatures it is more like 3.5:1. Being warm blooded is energetically expensive.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,756

Re: Underwater Research Facility Space Habitat Simulation

Garbage in Garbage out.

Thanks for the corrections.  I acquired that number many decades ago, and sourced it from my memory.  Update correction completed

Still it does indicate that for biomass to humans, it is better to get in as close to the beginning of the food chain as possible.

But yes again, thank you.

Done.

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elderflower

Member

Registered: 2016-06-19

Posts: 1,262

Re: Underwater Research Facility Space Habitat Simulation

You are right, Void. The further down the food chain you can get the more resources are available, but this must be balanced against the difficulty of obtaining nutrition from the low levels of the chain. No warmblood that I know of eats copepods, never mind planktonic algae. At the level of krill it all starts to make sense for large animals to specialise for gathering the resource.

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Underwater Research Facility Space Habitat Simulation

DeepWorker submersibles and the Aquarius underwater habitat, underwater expedition for deep space training
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/NEEMO/NEEMO15/

Next Generation Vehicle for Space Exploration Driving New Tech Here On Earth
https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/techno … n_vehicle/

NEEMO, an acronym for NASA Extreme Environment Mission Operations a NASA analog mission that sends groups of astronauts, engineers and scientists to live in Aquarius underwater laboratory, the world's only undersea research station, for up to three weeks at a time in preparation for future space exploration. Aquarius is an underwater habitat 3.5 miles (5.6 km) off Key Largo, Florida, in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/NEEMO/history.html

https://aquarius.fiu.edu/

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Underwater Research Facility Space Habitat Simulation

NASA Juno Spacecraft Set to Swoop Crazy Close to Jupiter Moon Europa

https://www.cnet.com/science/space/nasa … on-europa/

Buried Lakes and Glaciers on Mars?

"Long term evolution and chaotic diffusion of the insolation quantities of Mars"
PDF
https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00 … r_prep.pdf

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,221

Re: Underwater Research Facility Space Habitat Simulation

Update on undersea habitat research:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2023 … tab-en-us#

The final frontier? How humans could live underwater in 'ocean stations'

1st December 2023, 09:00 EST

By Katherine LathamFeatures correspondent

Deep A computer generated visualisation of the Deep's subsea habitat (Credit: Deep)Deep

The Deep's subsea habitats will allow a permanent human presence under the ocean (Credit: Deep)

In 2026, a crew of six fully-trained aquanauts will be deployed to a new oceanic habitat system – beginning what promises to be the era of humanity's continuous presence underwater.
<snip>
Deep Deep's subsea habitats can house six people at a time in a warm comfortable living environment (Credit: Deep)Deep
Deep's subsea habitats can house six people at a time in a warm comfortable living environment (Credit: Deep)

However, much like spaceflight, life aboard a submarine is widely recognised as one of the most stressful and psychologically demanding experiences. Subsea habitats are often cramped, and inhabitants have to deal with confinement, absence of day/night cues, lack of privacy, and isolation from the outside world.

"We'll be studying whether people can cope with being isolated in a remote place that you just simply cannot leave," says Short. This research lends itself to space travel too, he says. "If we're going to send people to Mars, that will be a three-year mission. It's important to understand how six people would cope with being trapped in a tin together for three years."

The Sentinel is 400m3 (14,126 ft3) in length and 6.2m (20 ft) in diameter – roughly half the size of a Boeing 777's fuselage. It can house six people at a time and says it will offer comfort "unlike any other subsea habitat". Habitants can enjoy a good night's sleep in a private bedroom, proper food prepared in a kitchen, and a warm comfortable living environment.

So, are we about to return to the oceans we crawled out of some 375 million years ago? Much like the moment in 2000, when humans established a permanent presence in space, Deep aims to create an "International Space Station for the oceans". Perhaps reforming our connection with this vast unknown landscape will help us realise its importance for the future of our species, and for the Earth itself.

"Who knows," says Colley, "maybe in 300 years' time we'll look back and think, 'This is where it all began'."

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(th)