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#476 2020-06-23 16:27:25

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,863

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

This makes lots of sense with Virus Surges Across U.S., Throwing Reopenings Into Disarray that Trump administration has considered ending coronavirus emergency, even as cases surge

Not really when you need to detect whom has it to be able to isolate and trace...

States that opened up and now are experiencing high rates of infections with hospitalizations are now looking to reign it back in. Texas hospitalizations from coronavirus rise 60% in a week, governor calls spread

Texas governor urges residents to stay home amid record number of new coronavirus cases

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#477 2020-06-24 10:40:22

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,348

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

Without wanting to seem to trivialize your concerns, Spacenut, which should be spoken, I have some things, I think are significant.

First, I like this, I first read that the Soviets used it in WWII.
This item is of the same kind of family of using a virus to kill a bacteria, which in the case of Corvid-19 infections was caused by a different virus.
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases … 062420.php
Giving an infection and infection.  I like it, but it is not a silver bullet.

------

Moving to a different topic, I am going to attempt to argue statistics, if I can.  I am rather annoyed by Sweden bashing per their methods of handling their own Corona-19 problem.

This is my source of data for now:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Corona+Vi … 85537b8f63

I have this:

Minnesota cases
Updated Jun 24 at 11:40 AM local
Confirmed
33,763
+294
Deaths
1,416
Recovered
29,707
+308

~6 Million people for the population.

--

Illinois cases
Updated Jun 24 at 11:40 AM local
Confirmed
138,224
Deaths
6,875
Recovered
-???

Population: 12.66 million

--

Sweden cases
Updated Jun 24 at 11:40 AM local
Confirmed
60,837
+205
Deaths
5,161
+12
Recovered  ???

Population: 10,096,150

--

So, it appears to me that  Illinois and Sweden are not too far off in number of deaths, and it looks like the number of deaths per population is ~Proportional.

Minnesota looks proportionally better than either for some reason per number of deaths.

The Swedes got hit first, so they had less warning.  There were mistakes in all cases.  If elder homes had been better protected, the death numbers should have been considerably less in all cases I presume.

I believe that every population is trying to do better as they learn more about how to avoid mistakes, and also how to treat the illness.

Minnesota may be just a bit more like Sweden due to cultural heritage.  Can't prove that, it's just a hunch.  So, the cultural factors may have a bit of similarity.

Sweden will also have the treatments, so the results of their methods should improve.  (Ours as well).

Good chances are that if Illinois did what the Swedes did, the results would be bad.  So each case is it's own to some extent.

But I believe that Sweden is like much of Europe with large scale public transportation, which is a liability for spread of infections.

I expect that Chicago has a lot of that as well.

A sensitive issue is ethnic vulnerability, good chances that hurts Illinois more.  Africans have stronger immune systems, and they can get overexcited more easily, I have read to be true.  In fact I also have read that humans coming out of Africa might have been wiped out of Eurasia, if they had not adopted Neanderthal immune genes by cross breeding.  That is just what was read.  I do not state it to be proven.
Just speculative at this time.

I am just pointing out that "One size may not fit all".

So, far thankfully, people in Africa are doing fairly well from the statistics offered.  But it is a young population, and I suspect that because a lot of their work may involve the physical, such as walking, they may be rather fit in many cases.  Except South Africa where their are other infections such as HIV, ect.

I have noticed a hysterical condemnation of the Swedes, seeming to mostly come from out North East news organizations.  Why?  Well, not proven, but of course they want to sell news feed for one thing.  Also, it seems that there could be a level of conspiracy in trying to put the public at unease.  Perhaps they are just frightened, as the North East had a very bad time with Coronavirus.  I can understand that.  But if it is being done to upset the nation in order to change the future election results, I would have to say it is one of the most immoral things I have seen.  But no proof of that.

What we need now is rational thinking to achieve a better situation.  Not politics.

------

OK, I will try to give what I think is rational thinking.  We are afraid of continuation of the problem, maybe even a second wave.  I am afraid that the 2nd wave may be worse, because it is possible that the virus will come back to us from other parts of the world more dangerous, because many places cannot properly isolate the very sick, and maybe the recently dead.  This may encourage that virus to move towards exploiting that opening.

So, I suggest compiling statistics of the recovered, and planning to use some of them to serve as a standby emergency work force.  They would be analyzed for utility.  Older people may not acquire a good immune response, and they may be frail.  Education records, may suggest who may be best suited for certain work.  And I expect if they are offered the work, a test should be done on them to provide evidence of resistance to infection.  And of course this would be voluntary.  But there are a lot of people with reduced income now, so the incentive should be there for some of them.  This sort of program should be started up now, at least in an embryonic stage, so that if we do get a bad second wave, methods may exist to keep the wheels of the economy running, and of course the ability to help the population that becomes ill.

I hope this would happen.  Now is the time to make preparations.

Done

Last edited by Void (2020-06-24 11:19:34)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#478 2020-06-24 17:54:58

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,863

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

My state of NH is running around 6% death rate for those that get the virus. That's not a lot but it should be lots lower...like near zero but that's wishful thinking....

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#479 2020-06-24 18:16:52

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,348

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

That is not a nice number.

New Hampshire cases
Updated Jun 24 at 7:10 PM local
Confirmed
5,598
+27
Deaths
347
+4
Recovered
4,358
+42

Population: ~1.37 million

But I wonder if a sample test would reveal more cases as a proportion of the population than what the above numbers indicate.  I hope so.

Done

Last edited by Void (2020-06-24 18:19:38)


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#480 2020-06-25 16:15:05

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,863

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

Coronavirus may have infected 10 times more Americans than reported, CDC says

Not really if you consider the under reporting which would happen for the flu....

What to Know Before Making Your Own DIY Face Mask   On February 29, the official recommendation from the U.S. Surgeon General was not to mask.

But by April 3, the CDC changed its tune, officially recommending that people use masks in public and even created a step-by-step guide showing how to make one.

The CDC just added new COVID-19 symptoms to its list. Here's our running list of every symptom, ranked from most common to least.

When the novel coronavirus was first identified in China, patients seemed to develop at least one of three symptoms: fever, a dry cough, and shortness of breath. The data was skewed, however, by the fact that most patients being tested for the virus had severe cases that required hospitalization

I've Been Sick With COVID-19 For Over 3 Months. Here's What You Should Know.

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#481 2020-06-25 16:47:48

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,348

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

It would be nice to think I had it.
From a link in Spacenuts previous post:
Quote:

The CDC recently added four new COVID-19 symptoms — fatigue, diarrhea, congestion or runny nose, and nausea or vomiting — to its official list.

Not strong fatigue.  Felt disoriented for a day or two.  When driving my car, things looked strange, felt strange.  Strong headache on right side of skull for a bit.  But the vomiting, it was just like I would try to eat, and my gag reflex made me spew instantly.  Chills, and I presume fever.  The dorks took all the thermometers, from the stores, so I could not measure my temperature.  Maybe it was something else though.  I had flown to Texas and back in mid March.  We will see.

This is really what I was going to post.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06- … ovid-.html
I thought the story for the global south would be relatively good, but apparently not so.

I think we should be prepared for a bad second wave, as that is what likely happened with the Spanish flu.  I think it went through us, and then out to the world and back again.  Just a guess.  But my fear is that the flu might adapt to like to kill and make people seriously ill. because of the lack of ability to isolate recently dead people, and very seriously sick people.

Usually I am up beat as much as possible, but I think we should be ready.  Find out who among us may have some immunity, and link them to possible employers. 

No economy and industry, no money, no money, no medicine.

No American market, then exporting countries suffer economically as well.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2020-06-25 16:49:47)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#482 2020-06-25 17:00:20

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,863

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

elderflower wrote:

Good luck to you GW, and to your wife.
Take heart! I had it without respiratory tract problems, but lots of diarrhoea, brain near shutdown and high temperature. My wife either didn't get it or was asymptomatic. I am 72 and she is a little bit younger.

elderflower, when I think I had this last year during the fall my symptom was a buzzing, burning head ache for 7 plus days with a general upper respitory as if coming down with something. Did not run a high fever but was warm. Made use of air disinfecting sprays in sleep area so that one would breath in the mist as if a vaporizer was on. This kept the bug out of the lungs for the most part.

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#483 2020-06-27 10:48:16

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,348

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

Glad you are good.

Antibodies:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/26/health/a … index.html
Quote:

A coronavirus vaccine is still months away, but an antibody treatment could be closer

I can pretty much agree with the priorities in the article.

This should be an opportunity to figure out what is needed to keep a society running even if you cannot get a vaccine.

I would be willing to spend a fair amount of money for 1-3 months where I could dare to go to the gym, theatre, restaurants, ect.
And in that, perhaps I would not be infectious to others.  So, it might be a good idea, to have the ability to cope even without a vaccine, even though our desire is for the vaccines.  A skill for the future which might be very important.

And of course that would keep people, especially young people in work.  They should consider being ready to ramp the process up, in case vaccines prove to be a problem not solved.  That way, we might be more ready to handle future similar infections.

I think that it is apparent that there are people out there that think the heavens have granted them a special mandate to dispose of other unworthy people.  I think we have to factor in the fact that some groups may think that a social disruption is a good thing to clean the human race of the unworthy, and to get themselves appointed to dominance.

And of course there is nature, which is willing to give us the gift of a pandemic.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2020-06-27 11:00:36)


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#484 2020-06-28 22:02:50

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,863

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

As cases bloom in Florida, Texas and California the pause button is being hit to get the virus under control...From beach closings to the Bars I am sure that its going to be hit with resistance to going backwards from reopening...

Gavin Newsom bar closings

Florida coronavirus update: Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Palm Beach closing beaches over Fourth of July weekend

Texas Stops Reopening As Coronavirus Cases Spike In State

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#485 2020-06-29 13:33:47

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,987
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Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

4 new cases identified Saturday, and 2 today. There were 11 active cases Friday, so this brings the total to 17. No one in hospital. No deaths since March 5.

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#486 2020-06-29 16:20:32

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,348

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

New version of virus 10 times as contagious.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica … -ntp-feeds

On the good side, it relieves us in part from the notion that Americans are only more out of control than China.  Granted though there is some of that I think.  They do not indicate that the virus is getting less deadly.  However there have been those from Europe and North America who have claimed so.  It is so hard to be honest informed information.


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#487 2020-06-29 16:53:30

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,863

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

The mutations are occurring quite quickly for sure and that would make immunity and a vaccine less likely.

With any large gathering that does not use masks and social distancing as seen with At least 85 people connected with visit to Michigan bar test positive for coronavirus and while this is not a hot spot like the south is currently it shows that we need to slow down...

At that point, all of the people who tested positive were between the ages of 18 and 23. None had been hospitalized, and most had mild symptoms. Four were asymptomatic.

No temperature or symptoms is a problem...

The governors of Florida and Texas closed down their bars Friday to slow down the rapid spread of the coronavirus cases those states, and on Sunday, seven counties in California were ordered to shutter bars as cases surged there.

The right step with the rising counts....

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#488 2020-06-29 17:31:44

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,987
Website

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

Meanwhile politicians keep blathering about a vaccine. Even though no one has ever developed a vaccine for any form of RNA virus. I had previously posted no one has ever developed a vaccine for any Coronavirus. It's 17 years since SARS and there's still no vaccine for that. But a nurse made an announcement that there's never been a vaccine for any RNA virus. So why do they think a vaccine for this disease will magically appear?

Vaccines are limited. Diseases have the ability to mutate, and often do mutate so the vaccine will not protect against the new strain. As of April 22, there were 30 strains of COVID-19.

There is real evidence zinc interferes with replication of RNA. The virus hijacks ribosomes, which are supposed to synthesize protein. When a ribosome replicates RNA, zinc stops it part way. The body needs zinc anyway, but normally your cells only take up zinc if they need it. You also need something called an ionophore, which transports zinc from your blood into your cells. All your cells. Hydroxychloroquine does that. So does quinine, the active ingredient in tonic water. Zinc and tonic water available from store shelves. There are a lot about this on the internet, but the media doesn't talk about it, and politicians don't. Donald Trump mentioned hydroxychloroquine, not it's become a partisan thing.

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#489 2020-06-29 18:11:23

Void
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Posts: 3,348

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

That's why I think that it may be that we will end up using antibody treatments, every 1-3 months for a while.  I am going to guess that once ramped up the cost may not be too crazy.

But I have read that Coronavirus is actually rather stable compared to others.  It is just that there was a strong evolutionary pressure for it to become more adapted to humans.  The thing I fear is an epigenetic adaptation from the 3rd world, where the virus has evolved in an environment where there may be less of a penalty for making people seriously ill and to die as well.

Here is the west, if we have our act together we would not allow escape of variations of the virus that cause serious illness into the public.

Granted I am no expert.  I am only regurgitating this and that based on what I think I know.

I don't think the WHO wants to trivialize the virus at all.  I hope that they are wrong.  It may be that if we do develop a milder version of the virus, that it will outcompete any of the presumed nastier versions that may come to us from elsewhere.


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#490 2020-06-29 19:17:15

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,863

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

There is also news that a virus similar to the swine flu has been located carried by pigs, but can infect humans in China is similar to 2009 swine flu A/H1N1pdm09

The virus, which the researchers call G4 EA H1N1, can grow and multiply in the cells that line the human airways. They found evidence of recent infection starting in people who worked in abattoirs and the swine industry in China.

What is scary is that World's dominant strain of coronavirus 'is 10 TIMES more infectious than the one that jumped to humans in China' because it mutated so its vital spike protein doesn't snap as often in the body, scientists say

The mutated version of the virus, dubbed G614 - a change from D614 - is a tiny change in its genetic make-up that scientists weren't sure what to make of when they found it. The way the virus enters the body is by using its spike to latch onto a receptor - called an ACE-2 receptor - inside someone's airways. ACE-2 receptors are essentially tiny gateways that the virus uses to get into the blood and then multiply rapidly, destroying cells around them in the process and triggering illness.

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#491 2020-06-29 19:58:51

Void
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Posts: 3,348

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

I am not intending to trivialize the dangers.

However, in this link is an indication that a dangerous virus can become a common cold.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zea … cold-virus
Quote:

Could Covid-19 become a common cold?
Gary McLean said there were 40 known coronaviruses, including seven which have infected humans, including four which are endemic cold viruses which cause relatively mild symptoms.
"One could argue originally those four might have been similar to SARS1, MERS and SARS2, and they attenuated themselves and became just a mild common cold."
One of the endemic strains, OC43, has been mapped back in time and the common ancestor is a cow coronavirus thought to have jumped into humans in 1890, McLean said.
"And coincidentally in 1890 there was a world-wide pandemic of a respiratory disease that killed one million people. And you can put one and one together and assume OC43 may have come from a pandemic and over the next 130 years it's evolved into a very mild, common cold virus," McLean said.
"And I'm hoping it doesn't take 130 years for this one to get that mild, but let's say it might take a year or so and we're going to have another common cold coronavirus.

I think that the process might be much quicker, because we have methods, to keep the dangerous versions isolated from the public, in hospitals and morgues.

However, not necessarily so in other parts of the world.

I think it is important to keep in mind how many generations of the virus there might be in 1 years time.

But yes, that is the optimistic view of things.

Last edited by Void (2020-06-29 20:04:40)


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#492 2020-06-30 08:49:15

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,348

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

I am thinking about vascular systems today it seems.

This is an article from the rense.com web site, so trust it that much.
https://www.anti-empire.com/swedens-out … e-of-0-06/

But a possible factor has come to my mind.  I am thinking that a tree has a vascular system, and so does a human.

What if a society has one as well?

Typical thinking about the masses, are they are one big infectible blob.

We do hear about super spreaders.

To modify that as well, there is a fair amount of talk about "T" cell resistance to infection.  This one would be if you were previously sick with something else, your "T" cells may mount an anti-viral effort, before your anti-bodies even wake up.

So, the population may not be uniform in nature. 

Perhaps I could suggest that the internal plumbing of the sinuses and other factors may make some people more susceptible to infections as well.  We are not all structurally the same.  So, the virus will more depend on having the more susceptible people available, as the main route.  When they are consumed by death, crippling, and recovery, the going may become harder for the virus.

------

Returning to vascular, is it possible that a certain percentage of the population does most of the central connective interactions?  Like the trunk of a tree, and that other people are branches, and leaf structures?

Mandates and suggestions from governing powers might temporarily alter the normal activities of this system, but in the end, if there are "Core People", then it seems to me that the infectivity rate of the population may burn out sooner than would be implied by conventional herd immunity requirements.  Even more so, if there is a degree of resistance to serious infections, from things like "T" cell immunity.

If there is a "Main circulatory system group", then they will relatively sooner be infected, and either die, recover with the potential immunity, or be crippled and for that reason modify their activities.

It kind of looks that way for Sweden at this time.  No guarantee that it is certain though.

And lets not kid ourselves, the USA is doing the herd immunity thing by now as well.  They just won't admit it though.  Some lockdown, but we cannot afford to injure the economy all that much more.  So, we should probably have a unbiased look at what's going on there.

If there are vascular people, perhaps in a pandemic, it can be very important to try to immunize them at a certain point if it is possible, before the great masses are immunized.

Focus the energy where it might do the most good.  And if not vaccines, then perhaps anti-bodies for them.

Maybe get the so called "R" number down sooner.


Done.

Last edited by Void (2020-06-30 09:15:25)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#493 2020-07-02 17:00:48

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,863

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

There seems to be no slow down to the cases Confirmed coronavirus cases are rising in 40 of 50 states with 36 states seeing an increase in the percentage of tests coming back positive for the virus.  Today was  the second-worst day of the pandemic with almost 8,000 new cases and a surge in hospital admissions.


Texas Makes Face Masks Compulsory in Reversal by Governor
Texas Mandates Face Coverings as Coronavirus Cases Surge

Friends of Texas I hope you will be able to stay safe during this time of increase exposure chances.

Its been six weeks since the city of L.A. issued an emergency order requiring Angelenos to wear masks when they leave their homes. The county issued a similar mandate, and two weeks ago Gov. Gavin Newsom followed up with a statewide requirement.People still not wearing masks? Maybe it's time to start enforcing the order

Not wearing a mask could cost you $300 in West Hollywood as officials pledge enforcement

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