Politics

louis · 2020-06-01 19:05:24

I think if we all try to judge each other by the content of our character not the colour of our skin we will be doing fine, whilst also recognising that not having a lot of character content is not a valid reason for asphixiating a person.

The USA is supposed to be a pragmatic nation but can't organise courses for police officers in "how not to kill people you are trying to arrest".

Void wrote:

That is very nice.
It seems profane for me to even post, but I will.
Some time ago I lived on Lake Street in Minneapolis. I know it well. That is where the idiots burned and looted.
There would be men peeing in my sisters back alley. I lived with her.
At one point I was traveling lake street, and a black girl rear ended me. My car died, I restarted it and tried to pull over to the side to talk. She then rear ended me again. So then we had a conversation, of course I was dazed and confused. I don't so much remember the conversation, but she started talking about bringing her boyfriend in to the situation. I did not want to meet her boyfriend. So I guess I just gave up and drove a way. I do have problems in my neck, but they are mostly quiet. I can manage it. Some stretches help. It is not very bad.
So, it was a very messed up place.
Much more recently I made some nice contacts with people who were, I presume by my eyesight to be black. Or whatever.
One I will call J, worked as a bouncer at concerts. He was quite heavy but strong. He was working to become a paramedic. I certainly think that is good. He had a very silly laugh you could hear all over the gym.
Another one I will call T. He was well structured and seemed quite intelligent. He was respectful, and I think we got on good.
And then there was a young lady, who had a silly giggle laugh. Very pretty. I can't understand why she was interested in interacting with me at all. But she was a cute young lady.
People like those are just great.
People who pee in the ally, and rear end my car twice. If I was a cop and had to deal with people like that day after day, I guess I might go a bit insane. But it would not allow for killing them.
Now I have taken a chance and revealed myself. But trust me I don't live near the pee place and the rear ending place. Have not for some time.

Done.

Not Done.

Last edited by louis (2020-06-01 19:05:54)

RobertDyck · 2020-06-01 22:31:05

In Sweden police require 2 and a half years of training at university to become an officer. In addition there's an 18 month training program for an applicant to become a police chief. 40% of Swedish police chiefs have a law degree.
Wikipedia: Swedish Police Authority

In comparison, to become a police officer in the US Capital Region requires 12 weeks of training.
Police Officer Academy Training - United States Capital Police

kbd512 · 2020-06-02 07:00:52

RobertDyck,

The Police Officer who killed Eric Garner had a college degree. Contrary to what I'm pretty sure you believe, no amount of education can ever stop someone from being human. Incidentally, Texas has a 24 month training cycle to become a certified peace officer. 41% of HPD officers have at least a bachelors degree and 16% have a masters degree. Beyond that, observing the reactions you'd get if you ever attempted to recruit law professors to become Police Officers would be highly entertaining.

Would you ever become a Police Officer after watching people run over officers with their cars for something that another officer did in an entirely different state?

It's kinda hard to recruit the best and brightest when we have so much crap like that going on. I doubt Sweden has much of that.

RobertDyck · 2020-06-02 08:35:10

kbd512, I'm not saying a generic university degree changes anything. I said a specific degree in policing, which teaches police officers how to de-escalate and how to do their job peacefully.

kbd512 wrote:

no amount of education can ever stop someone from being human

killing another human being is *NOT* "being human". There is nothing human about killing another human being. Those police officers who killed someone with their bare hands, the officer who choked Eric Garner to death in 2014 with his bare hands, or the guy this year who knelt on George Floyd's neck, cannot be called "human". They're animals.

RobertDyck · 2020-06-02 08:35:54

Explain this... Pallets of bricks are being pre-staged in flashpoint cities across the country

Void · 2020-06-02 09:41:10

Yes, record who put them there, and follow the trail, deal with the criminals.

If they are for the rioters, the just go confiscate them donate them to some type of charity to sell.

If someone attacks during the removal, it is self defense for anyone participating in the removal.

Last edited by Void (2020-06-02 09:42:19)

kbd512 · 2020-06-02 14:56:17

RobertDyck,

What We Should Do vs What We Actually Do

The problem is that the people "teaching civilians how to be Police Officers" are actually teaching them to be afraid of other people and to respond aggressively, even when the situation doesn't require aggression. I'm not really sure what you think they teach them, but maybe you should go on a ride-along or attend some other "citizen policing" program wherein you get to witness the "training" first-hand. FYI, this is not conjecture. Maybe we shouldn't "train" Police Officers to respond that way, but this also falls under the category of what we actually do versus what we should do. I've seen very few people "rise above their training".

Endless Magical Thinking

How would you "peacefully" deal with someone who's high on meth after they've just hacked apart a couple of people with a machete? Our officers actually deal with that level of violence here, and on a routine basis at that. Can you tell me where this fantasy world is that you live in? It sounds like a really nice place. Are they accepting new applicants?

Human Behavior- On Killing...

Bobby, dear, killing IS a human behavior. Note that I didn't refer to it as a "civilized" human behavior, but it's a human behavior nonetheless. Humans are also prone to fits of irrational rage and other destructive or even evil behaviors. You're an animal, I'm an animal, and all of your neighbors are animals, too. If you actually believe that you're anything but an animal, then pay someone to prevent you from eating for a few days and have them videotape your behavior. If that doesn't cause you to behave as "human" as anyone else, then let's see what happens when you witness someone else hurt someone you actually care about. I think we'll all discover just how human you truly are. Long story short, no attempt to de-humanize the perpetrator of a heinous crime can ever make that person anything beyond what they are, which is human.

An ordinary run-of-the-mill human, admittedly someone with serious anger management issues according to a lot of people who knew him, just choked the life out of one of his fellow humans for no real good reason. Rumor has it that he even knew and worked with the man he murdered. I'm only guessing here, but the man he murdered most likely didn't actually think his fellow coworker would kill him, either. Other ordinary run-of-the-mill humans tasked with protecting and defending the people just stood around and watched that happen. One of them recorded it on their cell phone.

So, Rob...

Humans- not all warm-hearted fuzzy kitten-loving people at all times.

Anti-Social Behavior

The pallets of bricks are easy to explain. There are people in America who want murder and mayhem. Basically, they're evil. I eventually became so fed up with the mainstream media cheerleading such activities that I stopped watching. For whatever sick reason, they get off on gratuitous evil and anti-social behavior. They're narcissistic sociopaths in fancy suits. They're people who are so infatuated with their ideology-driven social experiments and moral superiority gimmicks that they continually attempt to paint a picture of their sick world wherein brother is pitted against brother, all in an attempt to convince their own countrymen to fixate on the very worst aspects of human behavior, normally exhibited by very few people in our otherwise civilized society- a society that should be a beacon of hope for people who want freedom and the mere chance at a better life.

Antifa provocateurs outed by peaceful protesters, and pre-staged bricks discovered.

Between our media miscreants, our usual cast of bottom-feeding race baiters, and these radical and violent leftists / anarchist antifa street thugs, America has real problems to take care of. Kinda ironic that our supposedly "leftist" antifa thugs are the dictionary definition of the nazis they claim to hate. They were literally caught on video vandalizing property and police vehicles, burning down businesses owned by black people. One of them is being charged with passing out explosives and encouraging others to throw them at Police Officers. I can't tell the difference between them and the literal nazis, apart from the people they hate. I have video of media personalities waxing poetic about the "virtues" of these evil cretins. Twitter is working overtime trying to take down the videos of their criminal activities, but no amount of censorship is going to make this go away. The actual peaceful protesters are already onto them and, oddly enough, a few of them were brave enough to drag those criminals kicking and screaming to the Police to be arrested.

Last but not least, there were also black people across America burning and looting stores and assaulting people, often other black people, who clearly had nothing whatsoever to do with a single white Police Officer thousands of miles away murdering a black man he'd already handcuffed. At least five people have already died as a result of these riots. Was a single man's death not enough of a loss? How many more people have to be sacrificed on the altar of this fake outrage culture taught in colleges and stoked by our media and celebrities?

In the end, you can't get respect or simple human decency from the people you want that from by attacking random people and/or causing wanton destruction. Is anarchy the order of the day, or is there a fine line between civil disobedience and rioting?

SpaceNut · 2020-06-02 16:03:48

Where is the word evil first come from and then man as animals are there as well not human and what was done with murder not killing....
Man can do better as a human species.
Its also quite clear what Trump means by dominating with troops.

GW Johnson · 2020-06-02 17:48:34

Protest is as American as apple pie. Looting and arson are not. Sometimes the distinction is blurred, because the Boston tea party involved the destruction of private property. It would be wise to remember that.

What is true today was true in the 60's and early 70's. There are (and were) the honest protesters, there are (and were) the opportunists who want to use the chaos for criminal behavior, and there are (and were) extremists (left and right) who have their own agendas to take advantage of the chaos.

It is entirely too seductive to tar the protesters with the rightful anger about criminal opportunists and political extremists. It is also entirely too easy to stray into wrongful behavior in the heat of the moment. That last is the fundamental human characteristic that makes lynch mobs so frequent in our history. It would be well to remember that, too.

Just food for thought, guys, from someone who saw this movie once before.

GW

Terraformer · 2020-06-03 02:26:10

The really frustrating thing is, there was a point last week when America could have really pushed meaningful police reform...

...and then the looting began, followed by the lectures over white privilege.

Alienating people who would otherwise support your goals isn't a good strategy.

tahanson43206 · 2020-06-03 05:39:40

For Terraformer ...

It seems to me that a population that would act out as this one has is telling us something.

A happy, content population would not behave in this way.

Even if outsiders have encouraged discord, it is still the population itself which is acting out.

It must have taken a few centuries for folks to build up a head of steam on this scale.

(th)

Void · 2020-06-03 07:39:38

I am going to break in.

My understanding is that the victim and the police officer knew each other they were both bouncers at the same place.
The officer, as a second job.

A trial is needed, to determine motive. Maybe the police officer just did not like the victim. It is not impossible.

Pre-justus? prejudice?

I wonder if people understand how good it feels to have a collective judgement and punishment imposed on us, before there is even a trial?

All those self righteous people around the world eagerly pointing fingers at us.

If they fail to give him the punishment he may be due (Just trying not to join the lynch mob, before the trial).

The victim may have had a heart condition as well, but that excuses nothing.

I had an experience one time. I was walking in a park. I herd boys shouting and banging on things in the distance. No idea of what it was about. As I was about to emerge from the park, I saw two police officers, and a police dog on my right ahead. They did not address me, so I thought I would mind my own business. As I got just past them, the dog growled, and then one officer addressed me, required my identity. I gave it to them being careful about my body language. It was explained to me that they were looking for someone with a shirt like mine. They let me go. An person at work told me I should burn that shirt.

The point is if I had done anything wrong, I fear I might have had the dog put on me. I am labeled as so called "White". Still the police in the twin cities are known for being very rough. And it might not be race that would cause them to do what they might do. They are very rough.

But racism could be a part of the problem.

Last edited by Void (2020-06-03 07:45:27)

tahanson43206 · 2020-06-03 08:30:17

For Void re #1712

Your focus in this post is on the incident that released pent up rage in a large population in the United States.

To gain a larger perspective, this article may be of interest. I stumbled across it while searching to find out if the British ever had slaves on British soil.

It is (of course) an indisputable fact that the British owned slaves all over the world, as did other Europeans and (I understand) not a few Arabian citizens.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ … e-revealed

It seems to me that if a group of people (ie, the British) wanted to make a population mad at them 400 years later, here was a good way to go about it.

(th)

Void · 2020-06-03 08:44:25

You are judging a society that successfully emerged from slave holding, the now in most places most of the time, by things in the past.

I think you have it backwards. Most societies had some sort of servant/slave class.

The point is that the West had a lot to do with the world emerging from it.

To try to place a burden on people in the now, particularly if a race division was strongly defined in the past, to then seek to punish people who were not born then, could be described as immoral, and in itself perhaps racist.

Lets look at India and the cast system. Again the Arabs tended to be involved in black slavery, And there was white slavery, as I do indicate that a certain empire used to take slaves from the Ukraine.

This sort of domination of others was the normal in the past. The west had a lot to do with getting rid of it.

How would you like to be a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch

I believe that when China had an era of ocean sailing with gigantic ships. The leader was Muslim who had been mad a Eunuch.

And yet still on our planet: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ge … &FORM=VIRE

It is tolerated widely, and even celebrated. And these people judge us????

A person is a person. The alpha's only can think of others as property.

So behave.

Last edited by Void (2020-06-03 08:52:58)

Void · 2020-06-03 08:45:28

I was not going to give a lecture about race, but I guess I will.

Danish Lola:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/hist … ome-story/

Northern Europeans used to have a dark skin, and blue eyes. I think the picts were darker skinned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picts

Curiously Ireland was once called Scotland, and Scotland was once called Pictland.

The European so called white skin came from the Middle East. Probably farmers from that area brought it.

I don't know where red and blond hair came from. Maybe from the Steps of Asia. Don't know.

Northern Europeans are said to be well related to Native Americans.

There is evidence of a sort of European related people who lived in Alaska during the ice age. Beringia actually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beringia

I see political corrections, have been applied. Now they are just described as Native Americans.

Anyway the NAZI theory of race was obviously completely wrong, which just goes to show that many groups confabulate stories about the past to justify actions against others not like them. It seems to be a human instinct.

The world community still seems to be deeply into anti-colonialism.

Actually we now life in the anti-anti-colonial era, and the former people identifying themselves as have just grievances, are actually becoming the victimizers.

The colonial era was simply a vacuum being filled. The vacuum was filled, and the wind of it stopped. But the left having found anti-colonialism as useful to their cause, still wants to do it more.

There is a logic to reality. As in the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, had a computer made of Earth people.

In a certain way that is real I believe.

These people who seek to use past grievances to seek power and profit, may be quite immoral in many ways. I do believe there is something like Karma in all of this.

But remember, the west freed the human race ultimately. The others just want to enslave it again.

The computer is not going to like that.

And any replies will be a waste of time I am guessing.

I know much of the structure of reality in space and time, but I don't share that sort of thing.

Done

Last edited by Void (2020-06-03 09:14:51)

SpaceNut · 2020-06-03 18:36:09

I was reminded of a science test of a group of monkeys that are given a ladder to reach bananas at the top of there cage and in time they learn to move the ladder to get them but before they get to them they ate hosed off the ladder learning that they should not use the ladder or get hosed.
Later a new monkey is introduced with the others stopping this one from getting sprayed off. In time all are slowly replaced until no existing monkeys remain from the original group at which they carry on stopping all newcomers from getting hosed off the ladder with none of them ever having been through it.
It appears that some are not as smart when it comes to humans

tahanson43206 · 2020-06-04 09:24:00

For SpaceNut re #1716

Your post about the training of monkeys to avoid reaching for wealth (bananas) for fear of being hosed, and that fear being passed down from one generation to the next, has been simmering/percolating overnight. I am making the stretch to see in that experiment the larger image of training a group of humans to live as slaves for hundreds of years, and then as despised persons for many decades thereafter, and the effect that would have on the population so trained.

In recent days, I have seen and read testimonials by US citizens alive today, who report that they teach their children to be wary of white people when they leave the house.

Now I'm drawn to a question your post did not answer. The researchers working with monkeys may have thought they were not doing permanent harm to the monkeys. From an ethical point of view, I question if that is the case, because the monkeys are left with a permanent fear that was imposed upon them, and which they are passing along without understanding the source of the fear.

So how might "researchers" who trained a population to accept slavery, or the hands-off equivalent of apartheid, suddenly reverse course and correct the training of 400 years?

I observe that descendants of the original trainers may disclaim responsibility for the actions of their ancestors, but the subtle reinforcement of the "hosing" lesson has gone on almost unabated for many decades.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-06-04 17:10:06

Old world to ancient have taken a defeated nations rights away and for most enslaved those defeated. So it as you noted will be hard to change but not impossible.
Trump seems quite confused, as he builds a wall in DC around the WH area.

Void · 2020-06-06 15:34:10

If you are interested in the "Floyd" case, you might try a query for "How did Floyd Die, Heart Attack?".

I don't wish to speak ill of a person who has died. So, find it yourself.

To be clear, I think there very likely was excessive brutality, handcuffs should have been enough.

And I am thinking medical help should actually be on standby for something like this.

But it seems to me that there should have been a trial, before the lynch mobs burned cities.

SpaceNut · 2020-06-06 15:56:27

He actually came up as having corona as well as to the cerotic artery being closed off from the knee but there is also reports which go beyond that initial report in that one action seems to have lead to the next.
The separation of peaceful protest versus mobs or rioters must be made clear as one is not for the others cause. That rioters have there own agenda for there actions which have little to do with wanting corrective action for the violence from the police on Floyd and others of color.
This is not the first death and while we would want it to be it may not be so From Eric Garner to George Floyd, 12 black lives lost that stoked to mass protests

Chokeholds, Knees and bullets

Void · 2020-06-06 16:10:51

It seems healthy for the "Protesters", to exhibit their concerns and feelings by symbolic violence. So, I pretty much agree.

Symbolic Violence would be a display, not real violence.

Last edited by Void (2020-06-06 16:11:42)

SpaceNut · 2020-06-06 17:43:13

Photo opt time without a mask, no less leads to Coronavirus swab factory to toss swabs made during Trump visit

There is a reason for why the factory workers use this level of cover you fool....
BB158ts8.img?h=533&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1013&y=583

kbd512 · 2020-06-06 18:47:50

Void,

Do you have any good things to say about Floyd George? I have none. The fact that he's dead doesn't change that. He didn't deserve to be killed, but he was never someone to put on a pedestal. Floyd George was an ex-convict who was convicted of multiple felonies, including violent felonies. He was high on meth at the time of his death, which likely contributed to his death. The Democrats and leftists of our country are constantly trying to turn career criminals into heroes that they've never been, especially if it suits their desire to pit brother against brother in their evil race wars. Between slavery / kkk / Jim Crow / race riots / welfare programs that destroy families, the Democrats will never stop tormenting minorities, especially America's black minorities. They will never tire of using our minorities as political pawns in their disgusting political games.

From a previous offense for which Floyd George went to prison for six years or so, he and a group of his criminal friends forced their way into a pregnant woman's home, Floyd George pointed a gun at the pregnant woman's belly and told her he'd kill her and her baby if she didn't give them what they wanted (money, apparently). That woman happened to be black. So like I said before, Floyd George was a lousy excuse for a human being, but even at that he still didn't deserve to be choked to death in the street after he was handcuffed.

The Democrats and their violent criminal thug army, antifa, are growing more and more desperate as everyone else slowly begins to realize that they're evil and hellbent on America's destruction, that they do want to hurt people they have political disagreements with, and instead of using our system for redress of grievances with the government, they just want to burn and loot their own communities over imaginary offenses never committed against them, rather than do the hard work required to build this nation and improve the lot in life of our citizenry. They can't get what they really want, which is something for nothing, so instead they're throwing tantrums like the spoiled children they truly are.

Last but certainly not least, to quote George Carlin, "I leave symbols to the symbol-minded."

SpaceNut · 2020-06-06 19:32:17

George Floyd moved to Minneapolis in 2014 for a fresh start after being released from prison in Houston, Texas following an arrest for aggravated robbery Floyd had turned his life around. When does the crimes and prison time paid end; not continue for the persons future life as it seems that once a criminal always as punishment continues long after paying for the crime...

Void · 2020-06-06 20:01:13

I don't want to judge a man who had to die. In my world death, requires some attempts to give what dignity as can be afforded.

Where I have my concerns is, I read that he and the policeman who "Apparently" participated in his death, knew each other as bouncers.

So the Policeman could have racist issues. Most people do, although they try to dress it up with pretty words.

It is in our evolution to belong to a group, and to seek protection with our group, and sometimes to have negative notions about who are not trusted from another.

But we do try to be better than that if we can afford to.

My concern is about the motives of the police officer. Racist, just brutal, personal vendetta, temporary insanity? It is not necessarily racism. I don't know that police officers record. Have there been other similar complaints against him

You know how much the internet can be trusted. Supposedly he dropped bags of drugs. I cannot assert that as proven. And it would not excuse what happened anyway.

I understand that he participated in some movies you would not show your parents or kids. I believe that law enforcement will do anything to snuff that stuff out, even if it is not necessarily done legally. I don't care about that, but, I know that they really don't like that.

Still he is dead, apparently in part at least by the way he was handled.

I am not at all an innocent. It is important for me to remember my mistakes in life. Although crimes previous were served, and he did not earn a death sentence. But he had a bad hart, and it is said on the internet he was on drugs, and maybe had drugs, don't know that for sure. Probably not a dealer. Was 65 and had corvid-19.

All of that could be a contribution to his death.

But a trial is needed for the situation, and all involved.

We don't know the associations and motives.

Still a man has died, apparently with some likelihood of some bad practices.

I want to see if the true motives of the situation can be determined in a trial.

Still wrong to loot, burn, threaten, and to upset society. At least wait until a it is understood that a trial did not bring justice, before rioting, and upsetting society.

I am very disgusted by the world throwing us under the bus, so that they can point fingers, and feel righteous. I forgive the Canadian prime minister, as it is conceivable that he was just trying to sooth the situation.

A trial before judgement please. No lynch mob mentality please.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2020-06-06 20:21:19)

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