2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

Void · 2020-04-29 12:10:02

I have also wanted cloth gloves, thin enough that I can do paperwork and other tasks.

I would want to be able to wash them like cloths, and to put them in the dryer. That would certainly kill the virus I think.

But I would also want to be able to sterilize them in a microwave oven.

So, if you went out shopping, before you get into your car, there is a certain way you take your gloves off that minimizes contaminating you.

Then you should have hand sanitizer in your car to use immediately.

U.V. Light is another game apparently.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica … r-BB13kf7t
Quote:

Lights There, a Portland-based commercial LED lighting company, has partnered with Hillsboro-based Northwest Innovative Technologies to design and manufacture light troffers that will incorporate enclosed UV light chambers behind traditional LED lights.

This could help in Meat Packing plants I would think. You would want protection from the U.V. though incorporated into your goggles, face mask, helmet.

Last edited by Void (2020-04-29 12:24:47)

tahanson43206 · 2020-04-29 22:45:07

Here is another study of materials for home made masks. This one was carried out by a department of the US Army.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/army-says-fo … 56837.html

After running about 300 tests, the team found that one of the best readily available materials to use in a homemade face covering is four-ply microfiber cloth, which is popular for cleaning and polishing surfaces, according to the release.

The article does not provide a brand name for this product.

If anyone has a suggestion for what it might be, I'd appreciate your posting a name.

(th)

louis · 2020-04-30 13:22:14

Biased pro-extreme lockdown BBC slyly call Musk's rational comments "intemperate".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52487486

Void · 2020-04-30 14:28:30

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dr … ORM=HDRSC3

Elon Musk posted something on this, and then I saw that it was taken down. The high powers no likeie.

I am open minded. I think it would be fine for those states that thought they could get away with it to try to move in the direction of Sweden.

I do feel that since in America often the Elderly do not live with their children, we may have an opportunity to allow the younger people to get back out there. However at the same time I want measures for the protection of the Older (Which includes me), and the compromised.

I would like to see medications that do indeed shorten hospital visits, and drugs that will quiet down an out of control immune system. I would be willing to wear a helmet, as per Teraformer, I would also like:

A glove kit. Lets say I had a bag with 10 pairs of thin gloves, and also a bag to put used gloves into. If I go out with, at the very least, a mask on, and try also to do distancing. I could put on a pair of gloves, go into a store do my transactions, go to my car. I know from work experience how to take the gloves off in such a way to minimize contamination of me. The gloves go into the used gloves bag. I get into my car and have a hand sanitizer. Then I either go to a different store and put fresh gloves on, and do again. Now if I go home and take my mask off, chances are even if I touch my face, the risk is minimal, since I live alone.

And then I am hoping I can sterilize the used gloves and bag in a Microwave oven, or wash them and sterilize them in a cloths dryer. So then I can re-use them the next day.

So, with the helmet/mask routine, and the glove routine, I think the only other thing to address is shoes. I don't have that one. Shoes supposedly can track the virus into your house.

But yes, with reasonable co-operation, I think that some of the young should be given more liberties, to get infected, and become part of the heard. We don't know if that works, but we cannot hide in our houses for 2 years, waiting for a vaccine that may be possible.

Maybe they can get one in 8 months, that is a big hope, but still 8 months, without productivity?

When I mention gloves, I indicate thin cloth gloves that are washable.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2020-04-30 14:51:58)

Void · 2020-04-30 17:12:51

I have wondered how to get a credit card out wearing cloth gloves that might be contaminated. I thought of a special pocket in a glove. That might work for storing your credit card, but you might forget and wash your credit card and put it in a dryer, or even worse microwave it.

So, I am thinking a neckless with a pouch. However you don't want it to get tangled in machinery and strangle you, so you should have one that will break apart for that reason, but then you have to worry about it disconnecting from itself when you don't want it to and dropping off so you loose it.

Well, actually I think I may have had the nasty virus, so it is not that much of a problem perhaps. Hope so. But I still have to behave as if I can be infected. Because perhaps I can be.

kbd512 · 2020-04-30 18:06:51

Void,

Or maybe you just pay for things with a smart phone app so that you don't need to touch other things that dozens to hundreds of other people have touched, just to make purchases?

Regarding that "Ed Han" fellow you posted that Medium article about, gas masks have been available to the public for many decades. No NASA development is required. Various military gas mask models are less expensive than your smart phone, they last for many years with a modicum of care, they can be easily disinfected with Clorox (part of their design criteria since that's how we do it in the military), and they can achieve a full face seal if you shave.

If you want something that costs as much as your smart phone, you can also purchase a positive-pressure powered respirator and a Tyvek-style CPO suit, but I think that's going further overboard than the gas mask already is. Using gas masks requires training that most civilians probably never received and thereafter routine practice with the mask is still required, else you forget the procedures.

Void · 2020-05-01 08:33:34

Well the smart phone notion has some merit KDB512.

Either you wear it on you arm, or if you fish it out of your pocket with a gloved hand, then, when you are done with your business outside of home;
-Take the gloves off in a careful sterile way. Put them into the dirty bag, get into your car, use a hand sanitizer, and go home.
-When you get home wipe down your phone with a sterilizing solution. Then change cloths.

But in the garage, presuming you have one. Perhaps you have slip on shoes. You change out your shoes in the garage, and leave the car shoes in the garage. For most people, it would be good to have a chair to sit in while doing this, and then as I said you change cloths, putting the dirty cloths immediately into your washer.

As for type of mask, I would suppose that should depend on how at risk you are.

Also about normal cloth masks, I would think that even if they have metal in them and so you cannot microwave them, you could rotate them. The virus is supposed to only last a day on cardboard and up to 3 days on plastic. So if you have say 4 of them and you rotate them, you should be able to use them several times at least.

It is all to try to get the "R" number down I guess.

They say that if the population can get the "R" number below 1.0, then eventually the virus will die out.

Last edited by Void (2020-05-01 08:35:10)

Void · 2020-05-01 08:35:31

I am seeing cheerful news.

https://www.foxnews.com/science/experim … -developer
Quote:

Experimental coronavirus treatment leronlimab resulted in 'remarkable recoveries,' developer says

So, it appears that this one can quiet an overactive immune system, and if I read it correctly, it also can be used as a treatment for people who are not so ill as that. So that sounds good to me.

And then of course, everyone by now knows about this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal … SKBN22D5D1
Quote:

Interest in remdesivir has been high as there are no approved treatments or preventive vaccines yet for COVID-19, and early U.S. government trial results on Wednesday showed the drug helped patients recover more quickly from the illness caused by the new coronavirus than patients given a placebo.

And then blood plasma:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … l-patients
Quote:

Plasma from coronavirus survivors found to help severely ill patients

And then wonders what happens if you do many or all of the treatments in the same patient, as they sort of do for HIV.

This may allow opening the economy more just from the fact that if you get ill, your odds of recovery will be so much higher. The perhaps it does become equivalent to flu as far as danger.

------

Meat packing plants being ordered open, I say that even though it is cold blooded, here is a place to discover if immunity happens to people who recover from the Corona virus.

It should be young healthy people working there, I think they should be provided very good PPE.

I would consider that maybe society should pay their medical bills per Coronavirus infections as well, since they are it seems guinea pigs.

I believe that testing is being done for the workers at those facilities in this country.

That's my opinion.

So, it does look like answers have appeared or will be appearing.

Last edited by Void (2020-05-01 09:00:32)

tahanson43206 · 2020-05-01 12:20:31

Not society, Void!

The "cold blooded" financiers who designed those plants to insure that the densest possible placement of workers would insure the greatest possible productivity need to accept the consequences of their funding decisions.

(th)

kbd512 · 2020-05-01 14:36:54

tahanson43206,

You can have low prices for manufactured goods, or you can accept the price increases that come from inefficiency or 100% automated production- which also means all those workers will be out of work. You can't have it both ways, though.

This is one of the primary problems I see with our educational system. We clearly don't teach people enough about engineering to understand when what they're asking for is likely not realistically achievable. The thing with the gas masks is but one such example. We don't need a NASA program to reinvent gas masks. If the person who posted that is unaware of what's available, then they need education.

Financiers, cold blooded or otherwise, don't design manufacturing plants of any kind. Engineers do that. We use accountants to keep track of what we spend, not dictate what the money is spent on. As with every other aspect of business, despite popular misconceptions, no business is infinitely monied such that it can implement every good idea that the good idea fairies come up with. There are always practical limits to what a given amount of labor and capital can achieve.

Good engineers tend to be sticklers as it pertains to maximizing efficiency and factory design is a direct result of what they think constitutes a good layout, according to their priorities, not what accountants or medical doctors think. Factories are densely populated with workers because concentrating resources is the most economical way to efficiently utilize those workers within the constraints imposed by capital costs associated with manufacturing facilities, the machinery required for production, and any automation efforts undertaken.

There's also a popular misperception that the President or some other politician can simply snap their fingers or wave their magic pen over some paper and then complex manufactured items such as modern ventilators will simply materialize days later. I assure you that not even the President has the power to appreciably speed up that process. Without him even asking, multiple major manufacturers of complex machinery like motor vehicles and aircraft, people who possess the requisite technical ability and manpower, already stepped up and started retooling to mass manufacture those items- all without any prompting from our government. The notion that their financiers had much say in that decision is absurd. They saw what needed to be done and did it without asking for permission from mommy and daddy government. Government is supposed to ask our permission to do what it does, not the other way around.

Despite how capable our workers are, if they've never made something before, then even with the blueprints handed to them it's going to take some time to retool the factory, implement the quality control checks required, and to test the products after manufacture to ensure that the replicated item is every bit as good as what the original manufacturer produced. Thereafter, those items have to be distributed. The fact that they managed to get that process up and running inside of 2 months is every bit as good as WWII production shifts. Furthermore, after all of the hoopla was over with, we likely won't need those additional ventilators, but will replenish the national stockpile and foreign stockpiles anyway, just in case and just to be sure that functional equipment is available for the next crisis.

In the end, what you and so many others really seem to have a problem with is the concept of money. If you find it that distasteful, then you should propose a realistic alternative to using money that places your own system of valuation on labor and products. Bear in mind that even communists use money and make decisions based upon its availability or lack thereof, so you really have your work cut out for you if you want to replace the "as-is" monetary system of relative valuation that all societies, capitalist or communist, have bought into. I'd be interested to see what you come up with.

louis · 2020-05-01 17:33:13

I agree with pretty much all you say apart from the idea that engineers guarantee efficiency (cf Soviet Union where the engineer was King).

Most people make category errors when it comes to money. They think money has something to do with ownership when it doesn't at all, really. The French Revolution didn't abolish money but it distributed land held by aristocrats to peasants, and made nearly all peasants' lives better as a result. Money is just a voucher that allows you access to current production, and represents a very sophisticated information exchange system.

They also think money generates inequality. It doesn't. Money is a great leveller. A person who walks into a restaurant prepared to spend x amount of money tends to get treated as well as the next person prepared to spend the same x amount of money. If the meal was free, though, would the restaurant workers treat the very ugly, fat, awkward guy as well as the slim, attractive and charismatic person? I doubt it. They'd probably think "Why doesn't that fat, ugly boring guy go somewhere else that's also free? - we'd be much happier without him".

kbd512 wrote:

tahanson43206,
You can have low prices for manufactured goods, or you can accept the price increases that come from inefficiency or 100% automated production- which also means all those workers will be out of work. You can't have it both ways, though.
This is one of the primary problems I see with our educational system. We clearly don't teach people enough about engineering to understand when what they're asking for is likely not realistically achievable. The thing with the gas masks is but one such example. We don't need a NASA program to reinvent gas masks. If the person who posted that is unaware of what's available, then they need education.
Financiers, cold blooded or otherwise, don't design manufacturing plants of any kind. Engineers do that. We use accountants to keep track of what we spend, not dictate what the money is spent on. As with every other aspect of business, despite popular misconceptions, no business is infinitely monied such that it can implement every good idea that the good idea fairies come up with. There are always practical limits to what a given amount of labor and capital can achieve.
Good engineers tend to be sticklers as it pertains to maximizing efficiency and factory design is a direct result of what they think constitutes a good layout, according to their priorities, not what accountants or medical doctors think. Factories are densely populated with workers because concentrating resources is the most economical way to efficiently utilize those workers within the constraints imposed by capital costs associated with manufacturing facilities, the machinery required for production, and any automation efforts undertaken.
There's also a popular misperception that the President or some other politician can simply snap their fingers or wave their magic pen over some paper and then complex manufactured items such as modern ventilators will simply materialize days later. I assure you that not even the President has the power to appreciably speed up that process. Without him even asking, multiple major manufacturers of complex machinery like motor vehicles and aircraft, people who possess the requisite technical ability and manpower, already stepped up and started retooling to mass manufacture those items- all without any prompting from our government. The notion that their financiers had much say in that decision is absurd. They saw what needed to be done and did it without asking for permission from mommy and daddy government. Government is supposed to ask our permission to do what it does, not the other way around.
Despite how capable our workers are, if they've never made something before, then even with the blueprints handed to them it's going to take some time to retool the factory, implement the quality control checks required, and to test the products after manufacture to ensure that the replicated item is every bit as good as what the original manufacturer produced. Thereafter, those items have to be distributed. The fact that they managed to get that process up and running inside of 2 months is every bit as good as WWII production shifts. Furthermore, after all of the hoopla was over with, we likely won't need those additional ventilators, but will replenish the national stockpile and foreign stockpiles anyway, just in case and just to be sure that functional equipment is available for the next crisis.
In the end, what you and so many others really seem to have a problem with is the concept of money. If you find it that distasteful, then you should propose a realistic alternative to using money that places your own system of valuation on labor and products. Bear in mind that even communists use money and make decisions based upon its availability or lack thereof, so you really have your work cut out for you if you want to replace the "as-is" monetary system of relative valuation that all societies, capitalist or communist, have bought into. I'd be interested to see what you come up with.

kbd512 · 2020-05-01 19:50:18

louis (and tahanson43206),

Except that even in Soviet Raahsha, engineer is not king. Politburo is king. King is blissfully unaware that he has no clothes and is generally thought of as stupid, but no one dare say such things. In Soviet Raahsha, you have freedom of speech. In Amerikaah, you have freedom after speech.

The leftists (not our communists) in our country used to be the most ardent defenders of freedom of speech. Now they're too busy with their political correctness, safe spaces, and identity politics to recognize that they're re-creating the exact conditions so omnipresent in the various forms of dictatorships in this world, such as our beloved "Soviet Raahsha", that ultimately caused their failure. They've lost the ability to understand how to accept and respond to rational and constructive criticism of what they claim ails us. Now they just blurt out "racism" or "xenophobia" or "you hate the environment and want to kill us all", without stopping to consider how what they say they want to do would drastically affect life for everyone, often not in positive ways. They tend to fixate on certain ideas and never let go of them, no matter how deleterious their ideation and subsequent behavior becomes.

Ultimately, politicians should not be making public health decisions or engineering decisions or monetary policy decisions. Almost to a person, they lack the wisdom (something you only acquire through experience and learning from mistakes) and education (something you only acquire with both aptitude and interest) required to make such decisions. In short, the government's role in our lives should be much more narrowly focused. They do have a responsibility to protect their own people, thus the requirement that their role intersect with health / science / engineering at some level. It turns out that it's really hard to get anyone to put aside their own personal pettiness long enough to impartially call fouls and strikes.

Your assertion that money is a "token" or "coupon" to "spend" in the "store" is valid, but money is also an impartial "voting system" for humans to decide what to cooperate on to achieve whatever they think is worth achieving. Regressive types and illiberal types really despise impartial voting systems that they can't "control" or otherwise manipulate, mostly because it's a mechanism by which personal agendas and fetishes can be reigned in. Tyrannical personalities are always at odds with "checks and balances" that preclude manipulation. I may not like the fact that millions of people spend their money to smoke marijuana, for example (I honestly could care less, but I tried to choose an example that our leftists could relate to, so to a person all of the ones I've talked to have talked to me about doing this at some point in their life and they seemed to enjoy it, so more power to them; artistic creativity, maybe?), but free market capitalism says that so long as they're not hurting anyone else, they have a right to spend their money on what they want to and I don't have any say in it. I love that part of capitalism the most because it permits the creation of new products and industries. Whether you agree with the marijuana smokers or not, the CBD oil industry their other "efforts" created has alleviated a lot of excruciating pain for a lot of people. So again, I see merit in our capitalist ways- even when what certain people choose to spend their money on may not really help them, or others, all that much. If you can't contemplate alternative viewpoints, then how could you even begin to understand your own viewpoints?

The point about the equality of the distribution of the money has much to do with the aptitude of the person using / spending the money as it does with who started with what. There's no alternative explanation for people like Bill Gates that holds water. Most people really aren't that interested in making money by running successful businesses, yet they also don't want to permit their indifference to disadvantage them- but that's not how the system works! Yet again, you can't have it both ways. Inequality is baked into their belief system. They're adherents to their "limited pie" religion, whereas most of us capitalists believe in our "unlimited pie" religion. However, our faithful also accept that you can't have "unlimited pie" unless nearly everyone is in the kitchen baking pies- because that's how "unlimited pie" gets made. That's another one of those pesky resource allocation problems. There's only so many directions we can go in at one time and expect to achieve anything, let alone something most of us consider worthwhile.

The following is not directed at you, but...

If we want to abandon the entire money concept, then we can move on to some other model. I'm game at this point. I'm tired of suffering to appease sophomoric ideas, no matter who they come from, that don't work. If there's truly a newer and better way, then let's hear it. I will also state that this had better not be a rehash of a very tired and old idea, such as communism, that ultimately doesn't work. The entire reason we use money is to compel people to do things that other people think are worth doing. The "money tool" in our tool belt is merely a circuitous way of getting people to cooperate with each other. If you can think of a better way to promote cooperation with less force or coercion than money, then let's hear it. Until then, that's why we use money and that's why we place a premium on labor and things produced from labor. Money is just the least forceful and coercive tool we have to promote cooperation- and just look at how much evil has been done in the name of the least forceful / coercive tool for cooperation that our little monkey brains have concocted. That's a little scary, isn't it? Money is just a means to that end (cooperation to achieve something someone or some group of people thinks is worthwhile- and we even get that part wrong more often than not). I know our communist college professors don't explain this in our now illiberal arts colleges, but that's because they're primarily interested in using even more force to compel other people to do what they think is worthwhile (typically with drastically worse results than minimal coercion). Despite the fact that using force has historically failed in 100% of all attempts, if we're talking about a long term survival strategy for a society or humanity writ large, it turns out that no amount of education or paperwork can make someone intelligent (sadly).

I would find living in a place where we can basically do whatever we want to be quite refreshing, but that would have to come with the understanding that you will be doing something, not sitting on your duff living off the largess of others, and that at least one other person has buy-in to your idea- and the more expensive the idea in terms of resources, the more buy-in that's required. There are lots of ideas that I would pursue if money wasn't a factor. Ideas like this are what preoccupy my mind, not figuring out how to take something from someone else in the name of "social justice" or any other euphemistic mind drivel for hurting other people for selfish reasons.

Void · 2020-05-02 12:08:50

I got this from a Peter Zeihan twitter post:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/0 … rus-222253
Quote:

Poop could help stop the pandemic. Really.
Wastewater offers a promising way to track the virus, a top CDC doctor says.

Very sensible, I think.

I myself have been sick for a while. Much better now.

Nothing wrong with my airways, thank God.

But I did have chills, don't know about fever, because all the thermometers were sold out.

Then instantaneous vomiting. I never have such a lack of control, I seldom if ever vomit.

My gag reflex was intensely amplified, which is also not like me. I typically have an iron stomach.

And of course my "Output" from the other end was highly variable, which is also not like me.

The chills are gone for many days now, but I did get headaches, on the right side of my head strangely for a couple of nights. I never get headaches.

----

Earlier I had read that gastrointestinal problems do occur, but almost only in children.

But later I think I read that something like 1/3 of older patients have it.

Point is I don't know if it was something else or not. I had the flu shot, and also the pneumonia shots, after I got back from Texas in mid March. So, I don't think it was the regular flu.

So, my point is that for those who output the virus into the sewage system, testing the sewage is very wise, because some of us may be shedding, because of a infection in the intestines.

A good marker to see what is going on in a community.

Last edited by Void (2020-05-02 12:16:57)

Void · 2020-05-02 12:32:55

Oh, I left out a couple of details.

-When having chills, everything seemed strange. When I had to go to a drug store for instance in my car. It just did not feel right. I wore a mask and used hand sanitizer on my way in and out.

-I partially lost motor control when keyboarding for a day or two. Particularly in the left hand.

I perfectly ok per that motor control now.

Just some FYI's in case anyone else experiences similar.

As I say I don't know if it was the corona or not.

GW Johnson · 2020-05-02 16:20:21

Void, you may have caught the coronavirus. Sounds like you recovered. Consider reporting this to someone for purposes of contact tracing. The incubation time for this crap is currently unknown for sure, but anecdotally seems to be a week or two. During that time, you are unknowingly a "Typhoid Mary".

Without adequate testing and contact-tracing capabilities, our only defense is quarantine. Same as with the Black Death, and every epidemic since, even into modern times. Adequate testing is not 50,000-100,000 kits, it is more like 300-million tests run about every 2 weeks, for up to 2 years (if the 1918 flu is any guide). Otherwise, you never find out who is a carrier, and where the pockets of infection really are. And that's just the US.

And don't count on immunity, even temporarily, for having had the virus. We have no evidence that having been sick with it confers any immunity at all. Some of the many other coronaviruses that cause the common cold confer no immunity. Same is true for some, but not all, of the many flu viruses.

Sorry, those are the numbers. Make of it what you will.

And get well.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2020-05-02 16:23:54)

Void · 2020-05-02 17:11:08

Well, I appreciate your concern.

I have not been going out much, and when I must go where social distancing is hard, I always use hand sanitizer and a mask sanitizer both in and out. But I try to keep those events to a minimum.

Perhaps tomorrow I will call someone and ask if they want something from me.

Today I did go out and jog about 3 blocks. Did not get tired, but got winded. I take a route where I do not anticipate other people to be present.

But I have to confess, I did have a coughing fit. Lots of stuff coming up. But that's good. Better out than in.

To be honest when I was at my gym. I would get coughing fits also, but much milder, to almost gone before the gym closed.

I will take a serious look at where I am at tomorrow.

I am not short of breath. I can hold my breath for a considerable time, and do sometimes, if I am anywhere near another person.

kbd512 · 2020-05-02 18:54:35

GW,

I think you've just described why it is that we're not doing more testing. Nobody's health care system is set up to run that kind of testing regimen. It's not practical to run 300 million tests every 2 weeks, let alone 8 billion tests every 2 weeks.

Void · 2020-05-03 10:17:43

I hope you are wrong about immunity. I think that the Meat Packing Plants will reveal this, yes or no.

I did a little research because of your comments about the common cold.
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/scie … h-age.html

I can only suggest "Hope".

It seems that the common cold comes in so many varieties, that yes, apparently you can develop immunity to a particular type. But the cold has been around so long that it has mutated in many variations, so that if you are immune to one, the others can still get you.

The last thing I read for the Corvid-19, is that there are now 8 variations. These may be recent mutations, and it is unclear how much immunity to one could grant immunity to the other 7. That is unknown.

It is also unclear if some variations are more lethal than others.

I do have a relative in a "Department of Health", and that person indicated an opinion that some amount of immunity would result from an infection.

------

So, is lethality entirely due to underlying medical conditions, or are some of the variations less lethal?

And if there is a less lethal variation that tends to be more asymptomatic, could you help it to emerge as even more dominant than the lethal variations?

If so, if there is a variation which is more likely to render healthy people an asymptomatic infection, will it stimulate any immunity to the more lethal variations?

If somehow the answer is yes, then a trick to do is indeed to open the economy gradually, and allow young health people to preferentially get the asymptomatic infections, and to strongly isolate those people who develop significant symptoms.

Although I understand that the "Experts" on top, have very much thought that Dr. Erickson should be discredited, I buy into one of the notions that was presented. If there are recent variations of Corvid-19, and some are less lethal than the others, and if even having the less lethal variety can give some immunity for all of them, then it makes sense that the more lethal varieties will be displaced by the less lethal varieties, because it is bad business for a virus to kill it's host, unless it can somehow spread itself to new hosts from a dying person or a dead person.

We tend to isolate the deeply sick people in hospitals, and also have some mortuary processes, to isolate the dead bodies.

So, maybe, and I only say maybe, indeed, the Corvid-19's lethality dissipates over time.

Last edited by Void (2020-05-03 10:40:08)

GW Johnson · 2020-05-03 16:22:06

Kbd512:

You are quite right, we humans are unlikely in the extreme to ever do testing in the billions.

That puts us back to the same quarantine we did 600 years ago. Perhaps modified a little by the science we understand today, but only just a precious little.

I'm all for re-opening economies, if we can define how to do it without increasing disease transmission. We know very little about that with Covid-19, even today! What little we do know demands masks-in-public and "social distancing": meaning 6+ feet separation physically. Not all businesses can do these things.

Contact tracing will ultimately prove to be more important than testing, I predict. That is to address the "Typhoid Mary" effect. Which seems to be quite real with this stuff.

This crap resembles the 1918 flu, in turn unlike most of the other flus we have faced since 1918. It seems at least as infectious, if not more so. It seems at least as lethal. Only the details differ.

The 1918 flu lasted over 2 years in 3 big pulses of infection in the US. I doubt we know enough to stop the subsequent pulses of infection with this crap. That'll happen later.

Meanwhile, look at advocates of opening businesses vs advocates of continued quarantine. Determine who values lives above money and who values money above lives. Think back on what you were taught as a child regarding these priorities. Then decide who is fit to hold public office.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2020-05-03 16:23:15)

Void · 2020-05-03 16:22:17

I'm just looking at this and thinking about it:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/re … spartandhp

GW Johnson · 2020-05-03 16:26:58

Void:

Why would they not do such a thing? It's in their best interest to protect their own at the expense of the rest of the world. Are we not doing almost exactly the same?

GW

Void · 2020-05-03 16:52:26

That's why I am thinking about it.

Did my run today, with mask on, not much for people around. Today no coughing fit.

Yesterday I has a coughing fit when I got home.

Seems like things are going in the right direction.

Last edited by Void (2020-05-03 16:52:45)

RobertDyck · 2020-05-04 00:28:50

I live in the Canadian province of Manitoba. Below is an image with statistics...we're doing fairly well.

In the morning the economy will partially reopen. Open: health offices, including dentists, chiropractors and physiotherapists. Retail businesses are to reopen at half occupancy, but physical spacing must remain in effect. Restaurants are to reopen patios and walk-up service. Museums and libraries are to open doors, but occupancy is to be limited to 50%. Playgrounds, golf courses and tennis courts are to reopen along with parks and campgrounds.

Government claims a second phase of reopening will begin no earlier than June 1: restaurants would be allowed to open indoor dining areas and non-contact children's sports would resume.

Mass gatherings such as concerts and major sporting events will not be considered before September.

kbd512 · 2020-05-04 05:17:06

GW,

If a viral epidemic started here in America, it would be front page news from the word "go". Unlike communist countries, there's no censorship of the media just because our government doesn't like what the press has to say. We're not hiding what we know about the disease or how it's affected us.

Everything bad that happens is a big secret in communist / totalitarian regimes and those big secrets have a way of leading to even bigger problems. China doesn't get to take the rest of the world down with it just to keep whatever "soon to not be a secret" secret that their so-called leadership is worried about revealing to other countries or to their own people. Nobody in Wuhan is unaware of what happened, for example. There's no secret to be kept here. Nobody I know of thinks China is "weak" in any way for admitting that there's a public health problem.

Terraformer · 2020-05-04 15:30:40

kbd,

China may have delayed in reporting it, but it was still clear by mid January that this was a serious problem. Other countries have no excuse for not taking action back then.

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