Politics

SpaceNut · 2020-03-27 14:47:34

The war powers act is to force and make it possible to get companies to make things that they normally do not make. Ventilators have been high on that list for this respritory illness as its relly required to save lives in used early enough.
The large scale assembly lines of Ford and GM are tooling up to make these machines.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/tru … li=BBnb4R5
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companie … li=BBnbfcN
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ … li=BBnb7Kz

BB11NON9.img?h=151&w=300&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

https://www.instructables.com/id/The-Pa … entilator/

http://www.panvent.blogspot.com/

https://gineersnow.com/industries/medic … -hospitals

Why not retool a rocket factory since we will do that for a automobile manufacturer
SpaceX and Tesla Might Make Ventilators. But Is It Really That Easy?

Proceedings of the 2010 Design of Medical Devices Conference: DMD2010; April 13-15, 2010, Minneapolis, MN, USA
Design and Prototyping of a Low-cost Portable Mechanical Ventilator

edit update for tesla:
Two weeks after an Elon Musk ventilator snafu that saw Tesla ship out about 1,000 B-PAP machines—which do not include the necessary ventilation tubes that the life-saving breathing machines require—the luxury car manufacturer has gone back to the drawing board.

In a pretty cool twist, the Tesla Model 3 infotainment system actually powers the completed ventilator model. The console display is even reimagined as a touchscreen monitor. On it, there are graphs displaying the air's pressure, flow, and volume into a patient's lungs. If there's an air constriction, you can actually see a kink in the graph—it's a well thought-out user interface.
The engineers have also repurposed Model 3 controllers to control the air in three different ways: 1) pressure only, 2) volume only, and 3) pressure-regulated volume. These can provide loads of flexibility depending on an individual patient's needs.
An oxygen tank even provides the basis for a backup system. Along with a backup battery and an air compressor, the system gives health care providers another 20 to 40 minutes to move a patient to another ventilator if something goes awry with the original machine.
Although Tesla's work is far from over, this is a promising step toward rectifying the world's massive ventilator shortage.

This very neat ....

kbd512 · 2020-03-28 01:03:22

SpaceNut,

Re: Post #1575

When President Trump says it's safe to go outside by yourself for a morning jog, he probably thinks he's talking to people who are intelligent enough to know that going for your morning jog on a railroad track at the busiest train station in North America, during a thunderstorm no less, just to prove him wrong, is not what he meant. It was wrong of him to presume he was talking to people who were rational and intelligent enough to consult their doctor prior to deciding to administer their own medications for a disease they most likely didn't have. In short, he forgot that he was talking to the products of our liberal regressive non-educational system. If it says take 2 pills a day, then by god we'll take 10 and really show that virus who's boss... or not, unfortunately, in this case. That old saying, "In every medicine, there's a little poison."... Also happens to be true, as this poor guy discovered.

The Chinese hospitals have been administering azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine phosphate to their patients. I have no clue why this guy thought that self-medicating with chloroquine phosphate was a great idea, especially since legally obtaining the drug requires a prescription written by someone who is a medical doctor, but he clearly wasn't using the drugs in a hospital setting, either, which is where the Chinese administered the drugs they used. I'm guessing there's a little bit more to what the Chinese have been doing than simply handing out pills to their patients. I'm also guessing that he had other medical issues and/or didn't follow the dosing instructions, like don't take drugs to treat a disease you don't have.

National Center for Biotechnology Information - Breakthrough: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of COVID-19 associated pneumonia in clinical studies.

Abstract:
The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) virus is spreading rapidly, and scientists are endeavoring to discover drugs for its efficacious treatment in China. Chloroquine phosphate, an old drug for treatment of malaria, is shown to have apparent efficacy and acceptable safety against COVID-19 associated pneumonia in multicenter clinical trials conducted in China. The drug is recommended to be included in the next version of the Guidelines for the Prevention, Diagnosis, and Treatment of Pneumonia Caused by COVID-19 issued by the National Health Commission of the People's Republic of China for treatment of COVID-19 infection in larger populations in the future.

English Language Paper

From the paper:

Chloroquine is used to prevent and treat malaria and is efficacious as an anti-inflammatory agent for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis and lupus erythematosus. Studies revealed that it also has potential broad-spectrum antiviral activities by increasing endosomal pH required for virus/cell fusion, as well as interfering with the glycosylation of cellular receptors of SARS-CoV (6,7). The anti-viral and anti-inflammatory activities of chloroquine may account for its potent efficacy in treating patients with COVID-19 pneumonia.
Chloroquine is a cheap and safe drug that has been used for more than 70 years. In light of the urgent clinical demand, chloroquine phosphate is recommended to treat COVID-19 associated pneumonia in larger populations in the future.

Anyone else notice what those Chinese medical professionals were trying to prevent? After someone contracted COVID-19, they administered chloroquine with azithromycin to prevent other infections, like pneumonia, from killing their patients.

Notes for all you non-medical-professionals out there:

1. Aspirin is also a cheap and effective pain killer that's been in widespread use for decades, but if you take too much of it or start mixing it with other drugs, those seemingly innocuous pain killers can and will kill you. If President Trump said Aspirin can relieve a headache, he's not wrong, but shotgunning an entire bottle of Aspirin will probably result in being toe tagged by your friendly neighborhood coroner.

2. President Trump is not a doctor of anything. Even if he's 100% correct in what he states, whenever you undergo medical treatment, all medical treatments and procedures should be performed or prescribed by a licensed medical doctor who has expertise in the field of medicine that is directly related to your specific medical ailment. If you have any questions about a medical treatment or procedure, the doctor or pharmacist are the people you should be asking questions of, not the President of the United States. Generally speaking, we shouldn't follow medical advice from people who are not licensed medical doctors. That also applies irrespective of whether or not we strongly agree or disagree with the politics of the doctor that the advice is coming from. Much like alcohol and driving, politics and medicine don't mix well.

3. Much like our President, "Dr. Mom" is not a real doctor unless she has some more letters behind her name. And yes, she can indeed "love you to death" when she starts wandering outside of whatever it is that she actually knows something about. Even if she has the requisite letters behind her name, that doesn't mean she's "god" or in any other way infallible. Doctors make mistakes all the time, just like the rest of us, because adding more letters behind your name doesn't make you omnipotent or infallible, which would also be why we have so many lawyers here in America and a significant part of why medical care costs so much. If you don't know what it's like to have your mistakes end up in body bags, then lucky you. Sooner or later, luck runs out, all humans make mistakes- no matter how much education and training we give them, all skill is in vain if an angel pisses in your flintlock, and people will die.

4. Just as there are different types of mechanics, there are also different types of doctors. If you wouldn't ask a car mechanic to troubleshoot a problem with a rocket engine, then why would you imagine that an OBGYN knows anything about neurosurgery?

Your Ford's 4-banger is a type of computer-controlled combustion engine, just like a rocket engine. All other similarities end there. The same applies to doctors and different specialties within the realm of medical practice.

5. This particular point seems to be a real problem for a lot of our politically-motivated liberals. Many of them seem to think that if some specific person they like or agree with says or does something they agree with, then that must make it "true" or the "right thing to do" and vice versa. I assure you that agreement with your belief system is NOT required for medical advice to be reasonable or unreasonable. If something happens to work, and someone points that out, then even if you absolutely hate the person pointing it out, then it would be wise to at least consider the benefits of the good advice you received, even if you dislike the person it came from.

Think of it this way. Even if you must adhere to the "orange man bad" silliness that the media shills have programmed you to buy into, the medical treatment that just happened to work came from the communists and they hate President Trump just as much as you do. You can think of it as President Trump eating crow over his disparaging remarks about the Chinese, if that helps you overcome TDS to live long enough to vote President Trump out of office, in the very unfortunate scenario where you contract COVID-19 (something I think is an inevitability for most of us at this point).

China's death rates associated with COVID-19 infections are now much lower than that for other nations, such as America, so I'll let the audience judge the wisdom of their medical practices and whether or not being counted amongst the living is more important than "proving Trump wrong". I think we already know the results of Chinese sanitation practices, so it's a darn good thing that their medical practices are a bit better.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-28 20:10:33

Was at a local food pantry today and a gentleman spoke about how the business he had been working for had fired him and are closing there doors. Not paying them there final check...its going to be a few weeks for the paper trail to get any funds from unemployment provided they get a response from the company and another beyond that once none is forth coming.
Working Americans need more than a one-time cash payment

The congressional stimulus package gets us part of the way there, but this one-time cash payment -- $1,200 per individual, $2,400 per couple, plus an additional $500 per child -- is simply not enough.
Just consider this: For the over 100 million American families who rent, that bill alone comes in at $1,405 a month, on average. It doesn't take an economist to see that the math doesn't work out.
While the stimulus bill offers a boost of $600 per week on top of state unemployment insurance benefits -- and I think this was a very important part of the bill that Democrats fought hard for -- those benefits are only in place for four months. Then what?

I guess we should be lucky...

Giving people money is a tried and true idea: my former colleague Natalie Foster's organization Economic Security Project teamed up with Mayor Michael Tubbs to run a demonstration of this idea in Stockton, California. In the demonstration, 100 residents are given $500 a month -- with no strings attached. The project finishes up this summer, but early research shows that families who receive the monthly checks feel less stressed, continue working and are able to cut out second or third jobs to spend more time with their families.
The mayor of Stockton isn't the only proponent of this idea. Andrew Yang ran for president on the idea of giving people $1,000 per month, launching a new kind of populism in the 2020 election. And nearly 800,000 people have signed one restaurant owner's Change.org petition, calling for $2,000 month until the end of the economic downturn.

The question would be to track for illness in those that feel less stress for getting the virus...

SpaceNut · 2020-03-28 20:35:57

We are now in a new border war from state to state now with the corona virus using national guard to order out of staters to quarantine for 14 days as they pass from NY towards places outward from the epicenter.....
Nh has already seen many a Mass plate heading to the summer cottages to get away from that situation so its going to continue until people get the message to stay put...

kbd512 · 2020-03-29 21:15:18

SpaceNut,

It's going to continue, period, at this point. It's time to go back to work. There's been enough economic damage done. The elderly and infirm are likely to die, whether it's now or a year from now doesn't change the math on that very much. The only thing that would've "saved" a significant number of people was understanding the virus from the moment it appeared in China, which was always highly improbable under their system of governance. Furthermore, even if the virus had originated here in America the likelihood of developing a vaccine in a timely manner was low and that's because vaccine development work takes a lot of time. What we could do, from here on out, is devote a lot more money to disease research to prevent the next super bug from killing more of us than this one did.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-30 08:27:51

We knew as early as oct/nov of last year and ignored the warning...
Sure it will continue to grow in every large city as we are not cleaning, keeping distance and are still traveling to infected areas. Its now starting to spread to the secondary cities as well from the traveling.

Another cruise ship is making its way through the panama canal with 4 confirmed dead, 198 more infected as it travels northward.

The economy was damaged long before the virus as we had seen hundreds of store chains closing that provided services that are essential. Keep in mind that these jobs are the low paying what some call entry level and now are being counted on in the face of death to those that might get exposed to the virus by some customer that was sick and did not care or did not know that they had such a deadly desease.

I am aware that one such convience store which is open in my area has been stepping up to the plate in a temporary fashion to compensate the employees with a $2 hr raise that will last at least until May for those employees. On the store door was a sign saying hiring at $11.50 for that business chain. While that is help for the 40 hr week warrior its still after taxes about $60 extra.

The desease research for cures for unknown will not happen as we have heard for this virus as it was seen and no vacines were created from that first observation that occurred years ago. That will not change until we make that market change for the business which do that research.

GW Johnson · 2020-03-30 12:14:33

Quarantining at one level or another is a centuries-old way to deal with epidemics that we understand. We know it works. When you don't have a vaccine, a cure, or even effective treatments of any kind, there is only quarantining. That's where we are.

Unfortunately, quarantining also shuts down business activity, leading to severe economic damage. It's inherent, and unavoidable. So you have to make a rock-and-a-hard-place choice. You have to prioritize lives over money, or else money over lives. There is no other option.

Now, your mothers and your churches all taught you to value lives over money, that valuing money over lives was evil. So what does that make of politicians and political operatives who advocate killing off the older and infirm among us in order to restart the economy?

You were all taught right from wrong when you were kids, regarding lives versus money. You judge.

Myself, I do NOT volunteer to die of this crap so that younger folks don't lose so much from their 401K's.

GW

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-30 12:44:58

For GW Johnson re #1582

Thank you for your (as always) sensible observation about the current crisis, about values in general and caring for others in particular.

Just FYI ... I opened a topic about using electron microscopes to identify the SARS-2 virus quickly. So far I have contacted a manufacturer of electron microscopes, an international association of electron microscope researchers, a local TV reporter, and a local news print reporter.

So far the responses I've received have been:

a) Cover my company from possible fault
b) Cover my association from possible fault
c) Nothing

In the case of the print reporter .... I wrote her after she published a long interview with a local PhD level researcher who's been studying the Corona virus family for 40 years. The interview specifically mentioned the good Doctor spending hours looking at samples through an electron microscope.

I am hoping that other members of this forum, and readers of the forum who are not members, have been equally active in pursuit of an answer to the question I asked everyone ... can a trained observer (such as the PhD level researcher) identify the SARS-2 virus visually from an electron microscope display.

Without a positive answer, I cannot proceed to the next logical step, which is to encourage mass production of the least expensive model and training of the required operators to be able to safely examine millions of people as they are poised to re-enter their work places.

Thanks again for your calm, reasoned evaluation of the current situation.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-30 13:48:32

We are little more than a third world nation when we do not care for the life of our people and for some part that is why our solders are in those nations now trying to correct what is wrong over there.

Trump moves the coronavirus goal posts, pre-spinning 100,000 deaths as ‘a very good job’ or higher into the millions for whom might be infected and die...wow....really...

As for visual identifiers when something looks simular you can get a visual identification wrong. Its suttle details when not veiwed by the unknowledgeable that leads to the incorrect sightings. That is part of why we are looking to use genetic types of test to detect even with the amount of error that they still can have. The question then is for is one or the other means to detect better than the other.

GW Johnson · 2020-03-30 18:06:18

The only things I would add to what I said in post 1582 just above are these two items:

1. The earlier you get started quarantining, the lower the total infections, and the lower the total deaths. We and South Korea had our very first confirmed cases on the same day, Jan 20. We both had warning it was coming no later than just after Christmas '19.

S. Korea had the supplies ready and the quarantining in place, early. They are passing or past the peak now. We screwed around for nearly 2 months denying there was a threat, and we are exponentially exploding toward 100,000+ deaths and a collapsed hospital system.

My own opinion is that the delay based on denials is prima facie evidence of valuing money (or political gain) above lives.

2. Once you embark on quarantining, you must not stop too soon, lest the outbreak resurge. Centuries of experience tell us that. It is the outbreak statistics that tell you when you can end the quarantine, not any other consideration, unless you value money or politics over lives.

That arbitrary nonsense about ending quarantines by Easter has fortunately been walked back. But it speaks eloquently about the relative priorities of a particular politician, as regards money and political advantage versus lives. Not that he is alone, but he leads the charge. And his true-believer supporters will do absolutely anything he asks, no matter how heinous. We have already seen that.

My questions:

1. How is killing people with bad decisions based on evil priorities not one or another degree of murder, or at least manslaughter?

2. Is not murder/manslaughter a high crime in our society?

3. Are not "high crimes" impeachable per the exact phrasing in the constitution?

4. Does that not apply to multiple political figures at multiple levels in this country?

GW

louis · 2020-03-30 18:45:30

I don't know why you are bad-mouthing your country like that.

Take a look at the data:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

For deaths per million the USA comes in at 22nd in the world (remarkable given all its interaction with China) and is behind Ireland, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland, Germany, the UK, France and obviously the basket cases like Italy and Spain. Italy's death per million figure is 192 more than 19 times that of the USA which is 10.

Yes South Korea has done better than the USA. But South Korea is a unitary state under constant threat of nuclear, biological and chemical warfare from its northern Communist compatriot. It would be surprising if they weren't able to respond dynamically to a crisis like this.

The USA's preparations were way more impressive than the UK's. We had virtually nothing in place. It's been scandalous.

The Democrats are obviously trying to gain political advantage from this crisis and grandstanders like Cuomo are pathetic in my view. He's the Governor...had he never heard the word "pandemic" before? Preparing for a pandemic is part of his job but it seems he wants to put the Federal government in the frame. It's just the usual blame game.

Trump was criticised as a racist for wanting to close down contacts with China. You've got to make your mind up: is it racist to close borders and deport foreign nationals when there's a pandemic in town or is it the sensible thing to do? Presumably you prefer this approach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNMdg4morQs

To answer your questions:

"1. How is killing people with bad decisions based on evil priorities not one or another degree of murder, or at least manslaughter?"

People kill people all the time with bad decisions. Someone (in the Obama period) closes a steel works...people die from depression and other reactive factors. Should Obama be prosecuted for murder for allowing so much American industry to leave your shores? It seems you think he should.

"2. Is not murder/manslaughter a high crime in our society?"

I think even Homer Simpson could answer that one.

"3. Are not "high crimes" impeachable per the exact phrasing in the constitution?"

I think even Homer Simpson could answer that one with the help of his daughter.

"4. Does that not apply to multiple political figures at multiple levels in this country?"

Nope. Not unless you are determined to tear your country asunder.

GW Johnson wrote:

The only things I would add to what I said in post 1582 just above are these two items:
1. The earlier you get started quarantining, the lower the total infections, and the lower the total deaths. We and South Korea had our very first confirmed cases on the same day, Jan 20. We both had warning it was coming no later than just after Christmas '19.
S. Korea had the supplies ready and the quarantining in place, early. They are passing or past the peak now. We screwed around for nearly 2 months denying there was a threat, and we are exponentially exploding toward 100,000+ deaths and a collapsed hospital system.
My own opinion is that the delay based on denials is prima facie evidence of valuing money (or political gain) above lives.
2. Once you embark on quarantining, you must not stop too soon, lest the outbreak resurge. Centuries of experience tell us that. It is the outbreak statistics that tell you when you can end the quarantine, not any other consideration, unless you value money or politics over lives.
That arbitrary nonsense about ending quarantines by Easter has fortunately been walked back. But it speaks eloquently about the relative priorities of a particular politician, as regards money and political advantage versus lives. Not that he is alone, but he leads the charge. And his true-believer supporters will do absolutely anything he asks, no matter how heinous. We have already seen that.
My questions:
1. How is killing people with bad decisions based on evil priorities not one or another degree of murder, or at least manslaughter?
2. Is not murder/manslaughter a high crime in our society?
3. Are not "high crimes" impeachable per the exact phrasing in the constitution?
4. Does that not apply to multiple political figures at multiple levels in this country?
GW

SpaceNut · 2020-03-30 20:08:23

You can not keep yelling HOAX and not pay the price when lives are at stake. We had more than 2 months to up the inventory of needed materials for all states to draw from and nothing was done. If we are the united states then all states need to be pointing the finger at the national stock systems storage of materials that are needed by all. If we are just states then Trump was and is in the way by not leading. We lost the 4 -6 weeks just implementing the stay at home phase for the over 60 and compromised group which was needed to slow the city ballooning effect that we are now seeing.

Early in Feb we sent gowns, masks and ventilators to china and now we are not only short but not even anywhere with quantities that we need of these.

We are number 1 by total infection and that number is under reported since tests are not available, let alone quick even if you can get one. Sure we are not the highest percentage of death rates but does that mean we are just healthier or is it something else?.

Trump deregulated and removed polution safe guards, allowed ground water to become polluted, took away medical care insurance that is greatly needed now for the care that is required.

His only interest seem to be tweeting for stocks and golfing at Marlogo not to meantion employing illegals.
We have and are in a brick and mortar crumbing ever since he took office. Just today big chain stores are closing for Macy, Gaps, Kohls, Gamestop ect...not just laying people off for a period of time...

GW Johnson · 2020-03-30 21:17:31

Louis's stats are meaningless, since the US is early in the game. He's not entitled to bad-mouth the USA, but I am, because I am a citizen.

But in point of fact, I am NOT bad-mouthing the USA, I'm bad-mouthing a totally-incompetent President elected by too many people who blindly believe in this charlatan despite all of the evidence right in front of their faces. I knew he was worthless long before he ever ran for the office. Many of us knew, but too many disbelieved us. And they still do, unfortunately.

Currently, predictions are for 100,000 to 200,000 deaths here in the US before this is all over, which is precisely what makes Louis's stats worthless. The main reason for the high death toll, which will be aggravated by collapse of the hospital systems, is the unconscionable 2 month delay in instituting quarantining, while denying there was a threat at all, on the part of President Trump.

I'd just as soon charge him with 100,000-to-2300,000 counts of murder, once the death figures are in, sometime this summer.

GW

SpaceNut · 2020-03-30 23:56:52

First US service member dies from coronavirus hospitalized since March 21.

News of Hickok's death comes as coronavirus cases within the US military continue to mount, surpassing 600 as of Monday morning. Twenty-six of those cases required hospitalization, according to the Defense Department. Thirty-four service members have recovered from their illness.
A US military dependent and defense contractor had died as a result of the virus, and the total number of cases involving the Department of Defense surpassed 1,000 on Monday.

11 vets die at Massachusetts facility; 5 tested positive for COVID-19

Eleven other residents have tested positive as well as five staff members, and an additional 25 veteran residents are awaiting test results. There have been more than 5,700 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Massachusetts, with 56 deaths attributed to the coronavirus illness as of Monday, according to the state health department.

kbd512 · 2020-03-31 02:46:38

GW,

I can't seem to recall anyone from your parents' generation blaming their President, irrespective of political party, for the deaths associated with Polio. It would seem as if the men and women of the Greatest Generation were made of sterner stuff, seeing as how they didn't constantly go around looking for other people to blame for their own failures. I also can't seem to find your scathing critique of former President Obama for the 12,000 deaths associated with H1N1, for example. If that had turned into a far more widespread pandemic, I'm guessing you'd have every excuse in the book ready to go to defend that President's handling of the situation. Far more Americans had already died by the time former President Obama declared H1N1 to be a national health care epidemic, yet I can't seem to find any post from you wishing to charge former President Obama with murder, nor any mass media hysteria over those deaths. Rather than pretending to be independent, you could just declare yourself a political partisan as I openly do and then I'd have to quit pointing that obvious hypocrisy out to everyone else. Irrespective of your claims to the contrary, you and I still know that you're no more independent than I am.

Did your precious Democrats change our national response or readiness posture following H1N1? Nope. Did I, as a Republican, expect them to? Nope. Why? Totally unnecessary. Did I call for President Obama to be tried for murder? Nope. Why? He didn't create H1N1 and did the best he could with what he knew at the time, which is all I can ask of any President. You Democrats like Monday morning quarterbacking judgement calls far more than most Republicans do. I brought up all those deaths as a direct counter to the absurdity that President Trump even had the ability to do anything about COVID-19 prior to mass outbreaks here at home. Your Democrats were too busy with their impeachment nonsense to be bothered with a potential global pandemic, so I'm giving everyone a pass on that. If he did do more, then you and your fellow Democrats would no doubt claim he was over-reacting and would have declared any more significant response as "proof" that he was a dictator and trying to avoid impeachment. Why? Well, the warped perception of reality that so many Democrats have seems to demand over-the-top responses to anything and everything they take the slightest issue with, such as a Republican President being elected to office. For a short while, it was mildly entertaining watching them freak out over the fact that the electorate told them to go pound sand, but now I believe TDS is a serious mental disorder that requires psychiatric treatment. It was a bit like watching the Republicans with their "He's cummin' fer our gunz!" nonsense when President Obama was President.

All of us who elected President Trump believe your Democrat Party to be the charlatans in this case, meaning we feel the same way about the Democrat Party that you feel about the Republican Party, so where exactly does that leave us? More pointless fighting and bickering over the fact that someone you disagree with was elected to office? It's been 4 years. Get over yourselves.

Edited to respond to SpaceNut (I accidentally wiped out my address to his claims):

SpaceNut,

The reason President Trump sent masks, gowns, and ventilators to the Chinese is precisely because he's not the racist / bigoted / xenophobe that your own prejudiced imagination portrays him to be. The emotion you seem to lack, as it relates to most who share your personal political ideology, is known as love or affection for your fellow man. That's at least part of the reason we helped rebuild Japan and Germany following WWII. Unlike the socialists and communists that infest the political party you've chosen to align yourself with, we Republicans are still human enough to show compassion for our worst enemies. Sometimes love even means telling your supposed friends the truth in a really crass way that upsets their fragile sensibilities.

Manufacturing declined ever since NAFTA was signed into law by former President Clinton, whereupon our manufacturing base was offshore to China and Mexico, and the brick and mortar stores are going away because of the internet and cell phones, whether you like it or not. If you think who's President dictates whether it's cheaper to run an online business vs a brick and mortar store, then you're not dealing with reality. Maybe you'd sign some prejudicial laws forcing all businesses to maintain brick and mortar stores, even if doing that drives them out of business, but not even former President Obama did that. It's amazing that it took President Trump being elected to office for you to notice the culmination of all the bad policy decisions made by the prior 3 administrations.

Maybe next time you could pay attention to how the bad policy decisions made by the people you voted for brought you to where you are today before making the next poor decision at the ballot box? Nah! Just stick with partisan political ideology. That's worked so well in the past, right? What parts of history do Democrats actually pay attention to? What happened yesterday? This morning? Right now?

Last edited by kbd512 (2020-03-31 03:01:33)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-31 08:59:36

The items sent were done to stop the trade war to gain favor by them...

Do you have a policy to give everyone a cell phone and internet to make the stores go away and become just warehouses? Then we will need brick and mortar for a while longer.

Quality to cost caused the shift from Mexico to China and other places...its also one of the reasons for buying an american product that fails sooner than a foriegn made one.

kbd512 · 2020-03-31 10:04:28

SpaceNut,

President Trump never wanted a trade war. He wanted China to play by the rules everyone else has to play by. We don't get to outright steal and manufacture counterfeit copies of the IP of foreign corporations that operate in the US, for example. It took a trade war and a virus to make that happen, which begs the question never asked by President Clinton before he signed NAFTA into law. Are the Chinese really who we want to depend on to make everything we use? You already know my answer to that question, but what's your answer?

Why wasn't giving cell phones to everyone who couldn't afford one a "shovel ready job" when former President Obama was in office? Was getting old cars off the road actually a higher priority than ensuring everyone could communicate with other people?

What is this "quality to cost" you speak of? How about the quality of having a good paying job in the country you live in? All those electronic gadgets that were made in China weren't designed by the commies, bubba. How is it that we managed to make cars that outlived their original owners? Could you explain to me why it is that our highly paid union members can't assemble electronics properly?

SpaceNut · 2020-03-31 15:50:51

Rick Scott calls for congressional inquiry into WHO's coronavirus response
There should be questioning as to whether the organization is doing what it should or could have done and was it done quick enough.

Big business wants there cut of the pie as they want to put there hands into your pockets as Visa Inc. and Mastercard Inc. are lobbying the Treasury Department to be included in the options the agency uses to disburse funds

A go to work plan is coming as America needs country's roads, bridges and other infrastructure, plus more done.

kbd512 · 2020-03-31 18:05:40

SpaceNut,

I never do seem to get any straight answers to the fundamental questions I ask. My questions are not rhetorical in nature. They're meant to provoke thought about how we arrived at where we are today.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-31 18:24:10

"quality to cost" is so simple if you purchase an item for $10 and it last 6months versus buying others for a 1$ for the same use period what do you think it means....you are going to buy 10 of the $1 item and save like crazy over all of the use which would be 5 years at $10 a year or $40 over the life of all of the 10 you bought a $1 dollar. If its got the same materials then what is the excuse...

China may not have been a buddy but none of these nations are that we are trying to take advantage of for cheap labor product for import since thats all we can afford. Have not seen any american made products go down in price yet gas is selling for $2 or less now. So its not transportation costs that are keeping product costs high.

Automation when done right lowers production costs...

The counterfiet copies of IP is international law and that takes the UN not doing nothing to curb it as the nations that its happening in see it as an opportunity to sell products.

The cellphones are part of the lifeline for some (income limits apply) of the low to disabled for being able to call for appointments or just text but we have become a nation of yackers and the time you get for nothing is gone really quickly for those that do get them for what I would call dumb phones. no camera. no data. micro sized screen. just a 100 minute unit alotment..Its not a smart phone capable of so much more on an unlimited plan of $45 a month....

Terraformer · 2020-04-01 05:42:03

Myself, I do NOT volunteer to die of this crap so that younger folks don't lose so much from their 401K's.

Myself, I do NOT volunteer to live in poverty so that older folks can get a few extra years.

Given that we younger folks are poorer than your generation was at our ages, perhaps you would instead volunteer to begin the wealth transfer NOW. Make sure young people don't lose anything from their retirement accounts by topping them up from yours. It's a fair trade.

kbd512 · 2020-04-01 08:24:31

SpaceNut,

You realize that the difference in cost between cars or electronics or textiles made here or overseas are the wages paid to your fellow Americans and corporate taxes, right?

Do you not see how silly it is that you simultaneously want higher quality and lower cost products along with higher wages and taxes?

Do you have any clue what the profit margin is for legitimate businesses that sell cars and electronics?

It's between 5% and 10% in nearly every business I've done work for, or lower for some such as foodstuffs and beverages. Even if you allow for no profit whatsoever, the most you could save, given the wages and taxes your political party wants to impose, is around 5% to 10% on the cost of a product.

You Democrats want to squeeze blood from stone.

GW Johnson · 2020-04-01 23:44:55

The usual mark-up ratio in most retail is roughly 2:1, sometimes as high as 3:1.

The net profit can be used for just profit (a foolish policy), or for reinvestment in the business as well as profit, or for those two plus incentives and bonuses for people.

When you do that wisely, you get the 5-10% (pure) profit that Kbd512 refers to. But in wisely-run businesses, there is much more to the markup between cost and price than just pure profit.

I didn't respond to this earlier, but here it is: Trump will have a lot to answer for when his term as President is over. I said that in post 1588 above, which Kbd512 objected to. But, at one or another level, all the Presidents I can remember back to Eisenhower have things they need to account for (or should have accounted for, since a lot of them are dead now). I was too young to remember or evaluate Truman, or Eisenhower in his first term.

I've made this point before: all the men (or women) who will serve (or have ever served) as President do (did) both good and bad. That's just human nature. The "trick" is for the voters to try to select those people to serve who will likely do more good than bad; those we generally remember as "good" Presidents. There's enough evidence right now, right in front of our faces, that we picked the wrong choice in Trump. I predict he will not be kindly-judged by history.

GW

Terraformer · 2020-04-02 03:44:22

What was the alternative, though? Americans picked the best choice out of the two they were presented with.

GW Johnson · 2020-04-02 08:38:13

Terraformer:

Americans were faced with two very bad choices in 2016. Which one was worse is still a matter of argument.

GW

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