2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

SpaceNut · 2020-03-20 08:23:00

louis wrote:

I see NASA have ceased work on their lunar rocket programme owing to one case of Coronavirus.
Would Musk also have to shut down?

Operations in Texas, Florida, or California where the orders from Govenors have stay in place conditions and work crowd limits with even state to state movement being limited or closed so as to slow the virus spread. The other part of this is the protection for workers over 60 and families with pre-existing conditions....

Gov. Larry Hogan signs emergency COVID-19 legislation as 5-year-old tests positive

The governor on Thursday signed the COVID-19 Public Health Emergency Protection Act of 2020, which establishes a series of protections for individuals directly affected by COVID-19 or more broadly impacted by the state of emergency, including empowering the governor to:
Prohibit cost-sharing by an insurance carriers for COVID-19 testing and associated costs
Establish or waive telehealth protocols
Require carriers and Medicaid to cover a COVID-19 immunization (should one be developed) and any associated costs, without cost-sharing, for certain patients
Work with Maryland Department of Health (MDH), the Maryland Insurance Commissioner, and the Maryland Health Benefit Exchange to minimize disruption in enrollment in health insurance and Medicaid
Allow MDH to offer more flexibility in staffing during the state of emergency
Prohibit employers from terminating an employee solely on the basis that the employee has been required to be isolated or quarantined or if the individual leaves employment due to a risk of exposure or infection COVID–19 or to care for a family member due to COVID-19
Provides flexibility to the Secretary of Labor to allow workers who have not been terminated to collect unemployment insurance if their employer has been closed due to COVID-19, if they have been quarantined, or if they are caring for a family member who is quarantined
The governor's office said the act also prohibits retailers from unfair price gouging for essential goods like food, fuel, medicine, medical supplies and cleaning products, and affirms that such action is subject to the enforcement by the attorney general.
Hogan also announced he has five recommendations for the president, the vice president and the federal administration, which are as follows:
Giving local government the maximum flexibility for National Guard
Proving guidance on the Defense Production Act
Delaying and providing flexibility for the 2020 Census and transition to Real ID
Supplementing funding directly to states
Increasing access to and production of personal protective equipment, testing kits, etc.

Gov. Gavin Newsom orders all Californians to stay at home

The governor’s action comes at a critical time in California, where 19 people have died and an additional 958 have tested positive for the disease.
The mandatory order allows Californians to continue to visit gas stations, pharmacies, grocery stores, farmers markets, food banks, convenience stores, take-out and delivery restaurants, banks and laundromats. People can leave their homes to care for a relative or a friend or seek healthcare services. It exempts workers in 16 federal critical infrastructure sectors, including food and agriculture, healthcare, transportation, energy, financial services, emergency response and others.

State Department reduces passport services to only those with 'life-or-death' emergencies

This is the other side of the coin when food costs and supplies rise or are of limited supply levels for families. Coronavirus and Poverty: A Mother Skips Meals So Her Children Can Eat

SpaceNut · 2020-03-20 11:32:50

Day 2 staying at home wondering when I can go back to work. As its a far cry from day 12 of Quaoar noted in post 130...wondering how other are fairing as well....
Went out for breakfast foods and hot coffee, getting extra water to have for general use. Today was automatic paycheck deposit so we have funds on hand for the next 2 weeks for use for the daily needs and expenses as they are inccurred. Got a little cash on hand for typical cash use. The local garbage dump is open fri-sa-su-mon for town residents to bring rubbish bagged for a pay by the bag system as its a transfer station where its collected and moved to another large landfill in the area.
Went to local irving gasoline convient mart, did take out pizza for lunch meal and now just waiting for more information to be forth coming as to when I will see either funds or going back to work.

louis · 2020-03-20 20:19:46

The Italian figures are v. puzzling. Even more so when you consider that the vast majority are from one region of Italy.

In terms of population (deaths per million) the death rate in Italy is over 90 (!) times that of the USA - which also has a large elderly population and lots of people with diabetes and other underlying health conditions - and of course loads of personal contact with China...

So I am yet to find anyone in the mainstream media come up with a satisfactory explanation. I am sure the phenomenon of young and old living in the same household is part of it, as is the close physical contact of greetings - but that's true of Greece, Spain, parts of France and other parts of Europe.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-20 22:38:12

I think its family setting which has allowed the situation to be so great as its simular to the NJ one that has seen 4 dead now with another 3 hospitalized.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-jersey-f … oronavirus

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/co … s-n1163696

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-stat … li=BBnbcA1

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-21 08:55:41

The link below goes to a web site which appears to be aggregating global data on the virus:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

SearchTerm:globalVirusReport
SearchTerm:worldVirusReport

Quaoar · 2020-03-21 10:08:00

louis wrote:

The Italian figures are v. puzzling. Even more so when you consider that the vast majority are from one region of Italy.
In terms of population (deaths per million) the death rate in Italy is over 90 (!) times that of the USA - which also has a large elderly population and lots of people with diabetes and other underlying health conditions - and of course loads of personal contact with China...
So I am yet to find anyone in the mainstream media come up with a satisfactory explanation. I am sure the phenomenon of young and old living in the same household is part of it, as is the close physical contact of greetings - but that's true of Greece, Spain, parts of France and other parts of Europe.

In Lombardy only severe case are tested for covid19, resulting an higher mortality than Veneto where the population is carpet tested.
In these days it was found that the contagion maps exactly match the concentration of the factories. Lombardy and Veneto are the most industrialized regions of Italy, so they have more and more cases than other less industrialized regions.

This points out that Italian strategy of "partial lock-down" (people at home, schools, stores and public office closed, but factories still working) doesn't work.
But our government has not the gut to shut down factories which doesn't produce essential items, so we are still producing something like F35s, which sincerely are not the best effective weapons for detecting, targeting and destroying a small enemy like a virus.

The media is targeting joggers, as scapegoats of this failing strategy, and now soldiers in combat suit patrol the streets of many cities to fine running people of 206 Euro, which probably will be never collected. But, as the crematory ovens works at full blast, workers still wake up at five o'clock, spend hours in very crowded buses to reach the factories, where they work side by side, while lawyers, magistrates and scholars are still eruditely discussing whether take their temperature is a violation of privacy or not.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-21 10:40:53)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-21 10:57:26

The dismantled agency that would have gotten the ball rolling sooner and not listening to the U.S. intelligence reports from January and February warned about a likely pandemic as lawmakers (yours truely) played down the threat and failed to take action that might have slowed the spread of the pathogen, according to U.S. officials familiar with spy agency reporting. The course of action is still being left up to each state to control what to do and how to execute what can be done.
Current US action on the coronavirus: 75 million Americans told to stay home as testing reveals more cases Connecticut, Illinois, New York and California have been directed to sequester, with only essential workers allowed away from home. The testing of cases is in the low 10% area if that.
This is where we are at for some but not all states with this being social distancing

Those that are home are in a pause as the will go at least 14 days....as testing is ramped up.

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-21 14:41:27

For SpaceNut and all ...

The article at the link below is from March 12. It is from MIT, and it covers several approaches to helping with the present crisis.

http://news.mit.edu/2020/covid-19-diagn … ntion-0312

The quote below is from a section which describes a method of testing involving a paper strip that can be dipped into a solution which includes body fluid from a patient.

“Our hope is that, similar to other tests that we’ve developed, this will be usable on the day that symptoms develop,” Gehrke says. “We don’t have to wait for antibodies to the virus to come up.”

I am still looking for signs that someone is actively investigating use of electron microscopes to rapidly identify the virus.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-21 14:46:07

The war powers act is intended to get new companies to make production with a avenue for what is made to make the items, that are needed as it gives them a means to be sold directly unlike wishing that the commercial industry will rampup production and with the many hotspots needing these supplies that are critical for PPE we will be making a system that is driving up delay for those needed as all are asking for the same thing.
Another thing that is going on is the use of items to enhance the cleaning freeing up resources and protecting the people. Thai hospitals deploy 'ninja robots' to aid virus battle with the Russia puts surveillance, AI on guard against virus threats
The large case count and deaths may be a man made cause as well since this is a respiratory desease in how it effects us. Air Pollution likely to cut Covid-19 survival

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-21 17:14:21

For Quaoar ...

Best wishes for a safe outcome of your service in the present emergency!

P.S.
As a retired medical doctor, today I volunteered in a medical task force of Italian Civil Protection Agency, so in the next few days I might be enrolled and deployed on the battlefield. I hope to see the light ad the end of this tunnel.

(th)

Quaoar · 2020-03-21 17:36:36

13th day of "house arrest".
Every day is the same. I know it's Saturday 21 only because it's written on my computer.
I go out to buy some fruit. There is a long line in front of the grocery store, so I walk 200 meters to another grocery, which is deserted. The scaffolds are still plenty of fruit. I buy some bananas, oranges, apples and onions and quickly go back home. I make some gym in my room, then I write the 4th capitol of my new SF novel, about a chase with flying boats on a super-earth tidal-locked to a red dwarf. Then I eat two eggs and some fruits, I give some kibble to Mr. Spock (my cat) and restart writing.
In the meantime it is now evening. I open google news: today we lost 793 people (546 in Lombardy) and the total death toll has rose to 4832. Many doctors have been infected and are out of fight. In northern Italy hospitals have ran out of doctors.
I read an advice of Italian Civil Protection Agency looking for volunteers.
I'm a SF writer, but I'm still a medical doctor with three decades of experience. I have a briefing with my son and my daughter, who grant me the permission, then I fill the form and enroll myself.
In the next few days I might be deployed on the battlefield, but I hope I will continue to post in this forum.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-21 17:54:15)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-21 18:12:47

Quaora, I do hope that you do stay safe in your deployment to aid others. Over here the front line is stressed with the PPE gear issue of not having enough, being forced to keep it on for like patients even when they might not be infected by this virus but possibly different.
I did hear on the high daily death rate this morning and was shocked to hear the totals given since it was no where near that the other day.

The ventilator is a key piece of equipment in the final stages of hope and GM to partner with medical device company to boost ventilator production

GM announced that it was partnering with a medical device company, Ventec Life Systems, based in Washington state, to help that company increase production of ventilators by providing expertise in purchasing and manufacturing rather than making public any plans for GM to produce breathing apparatus on its own.

Giving aid to the company that makes them to build up a production line capacity.

They are recommending you use a plastic face shield to help protect the staff from getting it in addition to the face mask.
States are being put to the task to find for the hospitals supply lines for the PPE but so are all thher states.

Today was day 3 for me and while I did go out 3 times for short runs to places near by the grocery store parking lot was approximately 70 % full of vehicles.

Aid for those forced out of work or told to go home are still waiting on the senate to come up with a bill to get funds to all but its coming with a hitch in that its going to be taxable in the future...Some have spoken up for a boost to the social security and supplemental benefits to keep the disabled safe as well as the retired but even that seems to be faultering....

kbd512 · 2020-03-21 19:19:33

SpaceNut,

The only actions that would've appreciably slowed or prevented the spread of the pathogen are the very actions you and your fellow Democrats decry as racism and xenophobia. With respect to your Post #157 in this thread, some of us can't help but notice that there's a running theme associated with virtually all of the political articles you post. I don't think you've posted a link to a politics-related article that wasn't critical of President Trump for the nearly four years he's been in office. You've never met the man and know nothing of his reasoning or actions, you only take the beliefs of people who don't like him, for their own ideological reasons, at face value. If you don't understand the humor in that, then let me explain why it's so funny to me.

1. You and others here claim or insinuate that Republicans are always lying or "wrong" in some ill-defined way directly related to your ideology, yet any time you can find a Republican, or someone remotely associated with the Republican Party, or some previously anonymous official from President Trump's administration that the Democrat Party wouldn't deign to fart at, who says something that could be construed in some way to be derogatory about President Trump, you eagerly re-post / re-tweet your Democrat-run media's opinions about President Trump without any context. I honestly think that history began yesterday for the Democrats, because that's the only explanation that holds water when they start making wild claims and accusations. Unless what you're doing is directly linked to your ideology, why choose to believe anything that those Republicans have to say, other than your old and tired "orange man bad" standby?

Seriously, though, is there anybody from your own political party with credibility who can state their case for why they disagree with anything and everything that President Trump says or does, apart from spending more of our tax money (the one issue that never seems to run afoul of party politics)?

If you think you have any argument to make that holds water, then can anyone from the Democrat Party make that argument and provide specific policies that they could actually implement, outside of the normal broken promises associated with magical thinking about what any given President could realistically do, that would actually change the course of our country for the better?

2. After the personal attacks directed at me and Republicans in general, characterizing all of us as racists / bigots / xenophobes / deplorables for the "thought crime" of believing that silly little concepts like immigration laws should be enforced, and I guess for the accessory crime of holding those beliefs while also having pale colored skin, the first chance your party gets they go off and nominate people who are whiter than President Trump to run against him. For years, if not decades, both former President Obama and former Vice President Biden, Senator Pelosi, and others were saying and doing the exact same things President Trump said and did about the need for enforcement of our immigration laws.

I use the example of Senator Pelosi here because she’s an active member of Congress and someone who’s been in government for decades, just like former Vice President Biden and former President Obama, but she succinctly states the issue that many Republicans have been saying.

"While we need to address the issue of immigration and the challenge we have of undocumented people in our country, we certainly don't want any more coming in." - Nancy Pelosi, 2008 Press Conference on Immigration

"But you just cannot say -- and there is a disagreement that anybody coming across the border is breaking the law, not until there has been a determination as to whether they can stay or not." - Nancy Pelosi, 2019 Press Conference on Immigration

I could go on to post quotes captured on television cameras and actual votes in the legislature from former President Obama and former Vice President Biden, but it's a waste of my time since anyone with the intellectual curiosity could either "A" - determine everything I've just stated is factual or "B" - determine that I've somehow mis-represented what they said or lied about it. You could also "C", choose to contort what was said and done to suit your own beliefs about this or any other issue, but that also deliberately ignores your voting records as it pertains to who you and your fellow Democrats elected to represent the Democrat Party in our federal government.

Well, Nancy, that's not what the actual text of our current immigration laws happens to state- you know, the ones you voted for making illegal immigration a felony. If you over-stay your VISA you are in fact in violation of the law and because that was signed into law after it was drafted and passed by the body you serve with, it carried criminal penalties with it, which included deportation. Furthermore, the courts have consistently upheld that interpretation of the law and all laws in general- meaning all laws come with criminal penalties (fines, jail time, or deportation for breaking immigration laws when you're not an American citizen) for not abiding by the law. Beyond that, when your own political party had complete control over both houses of Congress and the Presidency you did nothing to change the law, if you disagreed with it.

Why do you keep voting for these people who don't do what you say you want done, SpaceNut? I think your party's politicians will change their minds whenever the wind changes directions because the Democrat Party has no enduring principles. They do whatever "feels good" in the moment or secures the most votes, completely oblivious to the consequences of their behavior. They certainly won't hold their own party members to account for making poor decisions.

Why aren't your Democrat representatives fighting against closing the border now, SpaceNut? You told me you believe in open borders and that anyone who wants to come here should be allowed to do so. You're not becoming one of the racist / bigoted / xenophobic / deplorables, are you? We should be bringing everyone we can from Italy and Iran to America to receive better medical care. I always get a good laugh over Democrats being exposed to the results of their ideology, which for some strange reasons always coincides with the flurry of finger pointing they do at everyone but themselves after their behavior creates the very problem they're blaming on other people.

Democrats fought tooth and nail in the legislature and courts to prevent President Trump from doing anything at all to improve the control our government has over who enters this country and under what conditions they may enter. Well... Newsflash, geniuses, the virus was free to propagate to America and nearly every other country in the world specifically because national immigration control is so egregiously poor.

Blaming the unpreparedness of the federal government to respond to global pandemics is just laughable. It's blatantly obvious that no government, no matter the people or politics involved, was prepared to deal with that- even after decades of new viruses and bacterias that could and in some cases did result in what we choose to define as global pandemics. President Obama didn't even declare an emergency during his administration until after 1,000 Americans had already died of another one of these respiratory diseases. So, no matter what you think about President Trump, you received a much faster response after far fewer American lives were lost that also involved invoking the war powers act to get production rolling on the items needed to combat the pandemic or treat the afflicted.

3. Instead of focusing on what became a pandemic- largely through media machinations rather than the butcher's bill since the influenza pandemic that occurred under former President Obama's watch killed far more Americans and never received a minor fraction of the media coverage that this new COVID-19 virus has received, the elected Democrats chose to focus all of their attention and our President's attention on impeachment instead of a real public health issue now named COVID-19.

Senator Pelosi and her gang of radical leftists blathered on about putting country ahead of politics as she and her fellow Democrat politicians were slobbering over the prospect of impeaching President Trump, all while this COVID-19 virus was slowly but surely making its presence felt. When a reporter asked Senator Pelosi why she hated President Trump so much, her "un-hate-filled" mindset was made clear to the rest of us, when she responded by screaming and flailing about like a drunk schizophrenic. Those of us who aren't completely brain dead couldn't help but notice the myriad of expressions of seething rage over the fact that someone was elected that Democrats disapprove of.

Maybe you'll give them a pass on that because you hate President Trump more than you love your fellow countrymen and your political ideology is more important than your life, but many of us don't feel that way. I'd rather have someone who I can't stand in office than to distract them from governing our country with endless political frivolity over a difference of opinion. I express my political opinions at the ballot box and you won't see me throwing a temper tantrum like the pink hat wearing yahoos who were screaming and crying and pounding their fists into the pavement like little two year olds because someone they had political disagreements with was elected to office. Then again, that's probably because I'm an adult, whereas most of those people are merely the same size as adults but have none of the requisite maturity and critical thinking skills that should have been imparted to someone their age. Perhaps during this upcoming elections cycle, as part of a very refreshing change from false accusations of collusion with foreign governments or whining and crying over elections results, we can have simple statements of belief associated with congruent actions that demonstrate adherence to those beliefs. A four year long temper tantrum over who won a single election is too much.

What's it like electing people who are so infatuated with their ideology that they'll never even think about paying heed to issues beyond the scope of their ability to use those issues or events as weapons against their political opponents? I really want to know, because that describes today's Democrat Party to a "T". Do they just tell you what you want to hear and that's good enough for you?

Finally...

We always read about the chaos and terror of the Trump administration that these always-anonymous sources "close to the President" try to portray as it pertains to President Trump's administration. Personally, I think they're upset that President Trump was elected to make the decisions rather than them. In any event, shortly thereafter these partisan ideology driven false narratives fall apart completely the instant the first ray of sunshine strikes their little subversive schemes, which are little more than pissing contests regarding who has power and authority- and the people peddling such drivel clearly don't since President Trump remains President, not them. I think the real cover story here is that whenever our media or political ideologues have no clue about whatever is currently happening, they just start making things up to buttress their failed ideological belief system and place their opinions in the spotlight, rather than the person the American people elected to office.

In closing, can you or someone else here actually express, in your own words, whatever it is that you think should be done, rather than re-hashing / re-tweeting opinions from people in our media about someone you've never met and likely have no intention of ever meeting or trying to understand?

For my Democrats out there, is there anything at all that doesn't get passed through your political ideology filters?

For example, if President Trump said the sky is blue, do you feel the need to express your disapproval or disagreement or prove that he's "wrong" or "lying", or does whatever meaning that does or doesn't carry with it not require political filtering or agitation? In other words, can you ever accept that sometimes certain ideas or events "just are", and don't need to carry special political ideology or opinion with them?

louis · 2020-03-21 19:31:52

The daily death toll in the USA has declined two days running - I'd say that was grounds for optimism as far as the USA goes, but because it's Trump's patch the decline hasn't been mentioned here in the media, in the UK.

What I can't fathom is how we have Italy with a death toll of over 4,800, more than a third of the global total (and, even more, pretty much concentrated in a small area of the country) while Greece has only 13 deaths. Italy's total surpasses even that of the original epicentre country (China) which has a population over 20 times bigger than Italy's. That is seriously weird. But no one in the mainstream media seems to think it's odd.

kbd512 · 2020-03-21 19:41:54

Louis,

I don't understand that, either, but yes, it should be fully investigated to figure out what's happening and prevent it from happening again, presuming preventing such an outcome is even possible.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-21 20:03:50

Ponder this as we are # 3 for the level of infected and #4 is with 40 times more deaths for nearly the same infected and then of course adjoining nations where exposure is lots lower

Novel Coronavirus cases
Places Cases Deaths Recovered
China Mainland 81,008 3,255 71,740
Italy 53,578 4,825 6,072
United States 26,706 337 176
Spain 25,496 1,381 2,125
Germany 22,364 84 239
France 14,459 5,621 587

edit table fixed

louis · 2020-03-21 20:34:49

Where are you getting those figures from Spacenut? They're wrong.

See here for more accurate figures:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

SpaceNut wrote:

Ponder this as we are # 3 for the level of infected and #4 is with 100 times more deaths for nearly the same infected and then of course adjoining nations where exposure is lots lower
Novel Coronavirus cases
Places Cases Deaths Recovered
China Mainland 81,0083, 25571, 740
Italy 53,5784, 8256, 072
United States 26,706, 337, 176
Spain 25,4961, 3812, 125
Germany 22,364, 84, 239
France 14,459, 5621, 587

SpaceNut · 2020-03-21 21:11:56

Ah I see the table got copied with errors....

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-22 07:54:17

Here is an update on the Japanese flu drug mentioned earlier by Quaoar ...

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/03/ … to-us.html

The drug is not currently approved for use in the United States, and (apparently) not approved for coronavirus in Japan.

However, it appears that expedited trials are underway.

CVS and Amazon don't know anything about it, which makes sense.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-22 09:50:40

The drugs currently on the market are being tested in off use trial modes for safe and effective use to save lives at this point being administered by doctors only in hope of saving people hardest hit by the virus that will or could die from the complications of the virus.
There are many drugs that are used in that manner from baldness to acne from what they were license to be used for.
Mixed medications used to work with each other are also being paired up when single drugs are not enough as coctails.

America Needed Coronavirus Tests. The Government Failed.

Sick parents with 102° fevers denied coronavirus test, as son begins vaccine trial

But here is why doctor explained that they had to have a fever of at least 103° or be ill enough to be admitted to a hospital to be tested.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-22 10:37:14

The volunteering of service is coming from the unexpected in a variety of forms.

The schools have emplyeed the Bus drivers in the food programs for the at risk children in delivery of meals to the low income of there districts in some cases. This could be something done in manmy more locations and not just the few which have started doing it on there own.

Then there is the closed restaraunt which is taking orders via facebook filling orders for a take out version of bagged delivery to customers that are outside in some case waiting to give donations or to the elderly whom are in need which is allowing the business not to fail or close but to be able to give to community.

Another version of that is the old drive up like fast food, what I remember was the AMW buisiness which is like to old out door movie theater where the food is brought to you where you have parked.

Of course essentual business are to stay open but even that needs to protect there employees as well as The Nation Is Shutting Down. For Walmart, It’s Time to Step Up

After Hurricane Katrina ravaged New Orleans, Walmart’s truckers shuttled bottled water, diapers and socks to displaced residents -- often before the Federal Emergency Management Agency showed up. When the Great Recession crimped consumer spending, Walmart’s low prices and wide assortment made it ideal for those trading down and cocooning at home. These changes span across the company, but are most evident in its market-leading online grocery business. Walmart has spent the past five years aggressively expanding that service, in part to provide a bulwark against Amazon’s dominance of most other areas of online shopping. Now, that investment could pay off as coronavirus-conscious consumers, stuck at home, eschew brick-and-mortar stores for the web.

So mastering the abilities of these large companies in the transportation system is key as well to help us through this tough time as well transision from working to stay at home.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-23 16:17:26

Quaoar wrote:

kbd512 wrote:
Quaoar,
I hope your civil service goes well. I know perspective is a difficult thing to maintain in difficult times, but I think most of us are going to get through this. In the end, we're all going to the same place and no matter what we choose to believe there is no escaping that fate. Before you arrive at that place, do whatever you feel you must with the time you do have. When I arrive at the end of my life, I want to know that I made good use of the time I had and that I did what I felt needed to be done. As long as I do that, I can accept the final result.
Thanks,
I'm still waiting for the call. I will be probably deployed in Lombardy.
I fear my enemy, but I want to give my little help to win this war.

scratch edit:
Hopefully all is going well with Quaoar first day in the trenches of the fight against this virus which is not his 15th under house arrest and for me I am a stay at home isolation day 4 that must email report status to work tommorrow. end edit

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louis · 2020-03-23 19:35:59

Japan has very low figures for Covid19, for a country near the epicentre, and with substantial contacts with China. If they have had success with the drug, I would take that v. seriously. We aren't talking about saving people's lives here, just extending them by a few weeks (they will mostly die soon in any case) so we can prevent health services being overwhelmed.

tahanson43206 wrote:

Here is an update on the Japanese flu drug mentioned earlier by Quaoar ...
https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/03/ … to-us.html
The drug is not currently approved for use in the United States, and (apparently) not approved for coronavirus in Japan.
However, it appears that expedited trials are underway.
CVS and Amazon don't know anything about it, which makes sense.
(th)

louis · 2020-03-23 19:43:21

We need to keep a sense of proportion about this disease.

It is nowhere near as bad as many previous pandemics.

China has had one death in 428,000. That is statistically the equivalent of "no impact at all".

Even Italy, the worst affected, has only one death in 10,000. Greece, oddly, has had an incredibly low toll of about one death in 1.5 million!

And of course, all those "one deaths" would in any case likely have occurred within the next three months if Covid19 hadn't appeared on the scene because the people have pre-existing health conditions (often multiple such conditions). Their end of life plight is NOT a reason to crash our economies (which will cause many more deaths of perfectly healthy people), saddle the next generation with insupportable levels of debt and compromise our democracies.

The real problem is the overwhelming of hospital services.

So democracies who are interested in preserving themselves need to invest way more in effective emergency planning and resourcing. They need to warehouse huge stocks of ventilators and personal protection equipment. They need to invest in emergency hospital facilities that can be rolled out within 3 days.

Last edited by louis (2020-03-23 19:45:41)

louis · 2020-03-23 20:14:16

People have mentioned the fact that Northern Italy (contrary to its image of healthful lakes and hills) has poor air quality compared with the rest of Europe - partly to do with the Alps acting as a retaining barrier. That could be part of the explanation for their incredibly high death toll...but then I think Athens has a similar problem.

Northern Italy may just be the perfect storm: semi-legal Chinese migrant work gangs including from the Wuhan region, lots of Chinese tourists, young mixing with old more than average in households, rural-urban commuting leading to super-spreaders fanning out across the region, older than average population, poor air quality, cultural habit of close body-to-body greetings and maybe an inadequate treatment regime (e.g. a lot of people being held in A&E/ER for as long as two days and maybe a conservative approach to drug treatment).

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Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

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Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

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Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

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Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

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Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

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Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#160 2020-03-21 17:14:21

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Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#162 2020-03-21 18:12:47

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#163 2020-03-21 19:19:33

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#164 2020-03-21 19:31:52

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#165 2020-03-21 19:41:54

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#166 2020-03-21 20:03:50

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#167 2020-03-21 20:34:49

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#168 2020-03-21 21:11:56

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#169 2020-03-22 07:54:17

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#170 2020-03-22 09:50:40

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#171 2020-03-22 10:37:14

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#172 2020-03-23 16:17:26

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#173 2020-03-23 19:35:59

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

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Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

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Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

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