2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

Quaoar · 2020-03-19 05:24:41

louis wrote:

I'm coming to the view that we may be in the middle of one of the great mass hysterias of all time.
I base this on the following:
1. This video, which explains in large part how this hysteria may have taken root:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_AyuhbnPOI
Coronaviruses are not new and are always around in patients near death from respitory diseases - forming 5-15% of the virus load.
People don't die from "one" virus but from their inability (normally a result of age) to deal with the range of viruses infecting their lungs.
2. The extremely low death toll from Covid 19 in China. It has been implicated in 3300 deaths, the equivalent of about 170 in the UK or 850 in the USA. These are tiny numbers and you could probably attribute many of the deaths to other viruses just as well. About 600,000 people die in the UK every year. Even if 600 more died, that would just be a minor blip.
3. In China and South Korea the number of cases seem to levelled off after about a month.
Of course, it remains to be seen if this is indeed the end of the story and whether all countries follow this pattern, but if it is, then this will be one of the remarkable episodes of self-harm ever recorded, nation after nation destroying their economies...for what?

Louis, Italian hospitals are plenty of young and (formerly) healthy people under mechanical ventilation, many of them even in critical condition.
This may seem paradoxical, but old people fear the virus and lock themselves at home, while young and healthy adults think to be invulnerable and go jogging in groups in the parks, ignoring the rules.

I consider friends all the people of this forum, so I beg you, be careful. Covid-19 is not a piece of cake.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-19 05:36:03)

louis · 2020-03-19 07:15:39

"plenty of young and (formerly) healthy people"

Really? Let's see the evidence. No underlying health conditions, known or hidden?

Many younger people damage their lungs through habitual marijuana smoking: "Smoking marijuana clearly damages the human lung. Research shows that smoking marijuana causes chronic bronchitis and marijuana smoke has been shown to injure the cell linings of the large airways, which could explain why smoking marijuana leads to symptoms such as chronic cough, phlegm production, wheeze and acute bronchitis."

https://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoki … ealth.html

However, they might not be aware of the damage they have done. But something like a new opportunistic virus might exploit their vulnerability in a few cases.

I'm not arguing people, especially those with pre-existing lung conditions, shouldn't take reasonable precautions (washing hands, not going to crowded places etc). But I am arguing we cannot destroy our economies, create huge personal misery, just to save a few people who are likely to die very soon in any case.

Quaoar wrote:

louis wrote:
I'm coming to the view that we may be in the middle of one of the great mass hysterias of all time.
I base this on the following:
1. This video, which explains in large part how this hysteria may have taken root:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_AyuhbnPOI
Coronaviruses are not new and are always around in patients near death from respitory diseases - forming 5-15% of the virus load.
People don't die from "one" virus but from their inability (normally a result of age) to deal with the range of viruses infecting their lungs.
2. The extremely low death toll from Covid 19 in China. It has been implicated in 3300 deaths, the equivalent of about 170 in the UK or 850 in the USA. These are tiny numbers and you could probably attribute many of the deaths to other viruses just as well. About 600,000 people die in the UK every year. Even if 600 more died, that would just be a minor blip.
3. In China and South Korea the number of cases seem to levelled off after about a month.
Of course, it remains to be seen if this is indeed the end of the story and whether all countries follow this pattern, but if it is, then this will be one of the remarkable episodes of self-harm ever recorded, nation after nation destroying their economies...for what?
Louis, Italian hospitals are plenty of young and (formerly) healthy people under mechanical ventilation, many of them even in critical condition.
This may seem paradoxical, but old people fear the virus and lock themselves at home, while young and healthy adults think to be invulnerable and go jogging in groups in the parks, ignoring the rules.
I consider friends all the people of this forum, so I beg you, be careful. Covid-19 is not a piece of cake.

Quaoar · 2020-03-19 08:10:50

louis wrote:

"plenty of young and (formerly) healthy people"
Really? Let's see the evidence. No underlying health conditions, known or hidden?
Many younger people damage their lungs through habitual marijuana smoking: "Smoking marijuana clearly damages the human lung. Research shows that smoking marijuana causes chronic bronchitis and marijuana smoke has been shown to injure the cell linings of the large airways, which could explain why smoking marijuana leads to symptoms such as chronic cough, phlegm production, wheeze and acute bronchitis."
https://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoki … ealth.html
However, they might not be aware of the damage they have done. But something like a new opportunistic virus might exploit their vulnerability in a few cases.
I'm not arguing people, especially those with pre-existing lung conditions, shouldn't take reasonable precautions (washing hands, not going to crowded places etc). But I am arguing we cannot destroy our economies, create huge personal misery, just to save a few people who are likely to die very soon in any case.

I exposed the facts.
I's a fatal misconception that covid-19 only kills people who are about to die for other reasons.
You are free to think the hundreds of young adults under mechanical ventilation are all drug-addicts and you are invulnerable, but as I'm writing this post, in cities like Bergamo the crematory ovens are saturated and columns of military trucks are bringing the bodies to ovens outside the region.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … mated.html

Please, don't underestimate the enemy

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-19 08:35:10)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-19 09:53:13

Today is my first home stay vacation and the news reports continue to indicate that this desease os still spreading. Its also indicated that its going to be a week or possibly 2 to see if the cleaning and clamp down of hygenie touch will slow the condition of rampart infestation in the future.
Also indicated from work was the next step to curb the transfer to those in a pre-existing condition spread by sending those that have the conditions list or have family members that live with them that do.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020022 … -and-donts

It is also believed that self quarantine for a 2 week period is enough to prevent or slow the contagion. They are not seeing how we must still be mobile when staying home as we are not with supplies required for such a long term stay. That this is where the ramp of infestion is not being flattened as the cruise ships showed when after another 2 weeks on land did not change the curve as they still got infected.
With some getting sick in the following 2 weeks since so the time is not enough.

Had to get son's blood pressure refilled today and they are not doing enough to protect people as they did not clean the pin pad after another individual used it that was sniffling. I keep wipes in my vehicle for disinfecting, so cleaned hands once I was there so as to reduce chances of catching what ever that person had.

Quaoar · 2020-03-19 11:08:06

Today is my 11th day of "house arrest". I'm the one to go outside to buy food so, being potentially exposed, I keep myself separate from my family (fortunately my home is quite big). I'm confined in two rooms with Mr. Spock (my black cat) and every day is the same. I'm losing the track of time.

In Rome fortunately we have drinkable tap water, from ancient Roman aqueducts still working (our ancestors were great engineers). At the moment there is no food shortage. There are very long lines in front of supermarkets, but it takes little time to enter in little food stores, which are just a bit more expensive.

Yesterday I went to the butcher to buy some meat. We were allowed to enter one at time in the store, so I waited some time in front of it. There were only two people before me and we kept about five meters of distance. The street was deserted except a group of young joggers. An old lady reproached them. They laughed and ran away.
I felt sad they were unable to perceive the danger.
Then it was my turn and I entered the store. The scaffold was full of meet. I bought some beef stew for the goulash and some bread, then quickly went back home.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-19 11:17:38)

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-19 12:13:53

To Quaoar and SpaceNut ...

Thank you for taking the time to report on your local situations and how you are dealing with them.

Because the regular contributing membership of this forum is so small, I am hoping others will toss in local reports every week or so.

I am thinking in particular of elderflower and GW Johnson, but there are surely others who follow the forum somewhat regularly who can add a perspective not available to others. I'm hoping kbd512 keeps developing one or more topics on a regular basis.

Newer (and younger) members would include Calliban and family.

The idea is for ** everyone ** to ride through this and show up on the far side.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-03-19 12:16:25)

louis · 2020-03-19 12:28:16

In the UK we have 676 new cases today and deaths have risen 33 to 137. To put that in context, in January, before any confirmed Covid19 cases, we had an excess mortality of over 2000 compared with January 2019. That's an excess mortality average of 64 deaths per day in January, compared to the 33 we had today. No one seemed at all troubled by that excess mortality in January. Remember that most of the "Covid19" deaths will be respitory failure and if you examine the patients' lungs, you'll find lost of other opportunistic viruses there. There is no particular reason to label all these deaths as being caused by Covid 19.

I don't even know if there is excess mortality this month - we will have to wait and see.

It's been a very wet winter in the UK, so the dampness, and people getting cold in the damp probably explains the excess mortality in January.

We are now going into a full lockdown creating a lot of anxiety everywhere as people lose jobs, income and become socially isolated. People will die as a result.

tahanson43206 wrote:

To Quaoar and SpaceNut ...
Thank you for taking the time to report on your local situations and how you are dealing with them.
Because the regular contributing membership of this forum is so small, I am hoping others will toss in local reports every week or so.
I am thinking in particular of elderflower and GW Johnson, but there are surely others who follow the forum somewhat regularly who can add a perspective not available to others. I'm hoping kbd512 keeps developing one or more topics on a regular basis.
Newer (and younger) members would include Calliban and family.
The idea is for ** everyone ** to ride through this and show up on the far side.
(th)

Quaoar · 2020-03-19 12:36:01

louis wrote:

In the UK we have 676 new cases today and deaths have risen 33 to 137. To put that in context, in January, before any confirmed Covid19 cases, we had an excess mortality of over 2000 compared with January 2019. That's an excess mortality average of 64 deaths per day in January, compared to the 33 we had today. No one seemed at all troubled by that excess mortality in January. Remember that most of the "Covid19" deaths will be respitory failure and if you examine the patients' lungs, you'll find lost of other opportunistic viruses there. There is no particular reason to label all these deaths as being caused by Covid 19.
I don't even know if there is excess mortality this month - we will have to wait and see.
It's been a very wet winter in the UK, so the dampness, and people getting cold in the damp probably explains the excess mortality in January.
We are now going into a full lockdown creating a lot of anxiety everywhere as people lose jobs, income and become socially isolated. People will die as a result.

Ok. We'll talk again about it in ten days.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-19 12:43:37)

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-19 12:46:04

For Quaoar re whether one person can make a difference ...

The following is taken from a chat posted on Facebook. The author has worked in biochemical engineering, and is currently working in another industry altogether.

An autonomous drone startup heard about our bathroom UV light plan. We connected and now they are modifying their design with different lights (to be tested soon). Today I was contacted by a global food company about it to keep operations running. I will post in the future if there are successful/ effective applications. (I don’t work for the light company just think it’s a useful tool with applications beyond my own needs).

Since the report was posted in a public place to this person's large list of followers, I expect you can forward it immediately to your local authorities to help deal with the immediate situation.

(th)

louis · 2020-03-19 14:10:19

That's fair enough! But seasonal flu does kill about 17,000 people every year in the UK - for the six months of the flu season that would be 92 deaths per day, averaged, and obviously there will be weeks in which the average will be more like 200 per day. How many of the people dying also have the seasonal flu virus or other viruses? In other words, how many would die in any case. It only makes sense to look at excess mortality against the average for recent years .

It's interesting that no deaths are now being reported from Wuhan - the temperature there is now a high of 23 Celsius...they are obviously emerging from their winter there.

Quaoar wrote:

louis wrote:
In the UK we have 676 new cases today and deaths have risen 33 to 137. To put that in context, in January, before any confirmed Covid19 cases, we had an excess mortality of over 2000 compared with January 2019. That's an excess mortality average of 64 deaths per day in January, compared to the 33 we had today. No one seemed at all troubled by that excess mortality in January. Remember that most of the "Covid19" deaths will be respitory failure and if you examine the patients' lungs, you'll find lost of other opportunistic viruses there. There is no particular reason to label all these deaths as being caused by Covid 19.
I don't even know if there is excess mortality this month - we will have to wait and see.
It's been a very wet winter in the UK, so the dampness, and people getting cold in the damp probably explains the excess mortality in January.
We are now going into a full lockdown creating a lot of anxiety everywhere as people lose jobs, income and become socially isolated. People will die as a result.
Ok. We'll talk again about it in ten days.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-19 14:38:24

Went out once more to the local store guarding against chances by keeping distance and making use of the disinfecting wipes on items that I would use.

Along with getting 4 gallons of water for the visit which was the limit. This is what I have been able to stay working with for all needs at the normal low cost of 99c a gallon. Hit the lottery today as they had Hamburger at the normal cost per pound in a 3 pound package for $7 and got zip lock bags to divide it up into 3 units to make use of for meals.

Still in short supply or none was pasta of all types, tomatoe sauce, instant or slow cook rice, toilet paper, antibacterial and disinfecting products up and down the length of the aisle, breads, chicken and even frozen turkeys.

Today is a wet rainy misty day much like Louis experiences quite often.

Quaoar · 2020-03-19 15:44:23

tahanson43206 wrote:

For Quaoar re whether one person can make a difference ...

Avigan has just arrived in Italian hospitals. I hope it will work. Today we have lost 427 people, reaching 3405 death and surpassing China, whose death toll is 3245 (not exactly just like a flu, as many great minds still think).

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-19 16:00:50)

louis · 2020-03-19 16:13:54

China's figure of 3245 is just like a flu. There were 3433 deaths in the USA from the H1N1 pandemic flu in 2009.

The USA was not put into lockdown in 2009.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_ … by_country

The experience in Italy does seem odd. You have one region with over 1600 deaths and one with no deaths at all. Lombardy is hugely affected.

You have to ask also why Italy has been hit so hard compared with other European countries. If this was a simple matter of jet airliner spread you'd probably expect the Netherlands, France and UK to be the hotspots. Also, is there something amiss with the treatment regime - I've seen photos from Italy of beds quite close together in group wards in temporary hospitals. Is that just a recipe for spreading viruses on the air from one patient to another? I don't know. Were the Chinese isolating individual patients more effectively?

Edited to add:

If Italy's death toll were translated into Chinese population figures, that would be a death toll of over 60,000. Of course that would still be quite small for country like China where probably something like 10 million people die every year.

Quaoar wrote:

tahanson43206 wrote:
For Quaoar re whether one person can make a difference ...
Avigan is just arrived in Italian hospitals. I hope it will work. Today we have lost 427 people, reaching 3405 death and surpassing China, whose death toll is 3245 (not exactly just like a flu, as many great minds still think).

Last edited by louis (2020-03-19 17:27:29)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-19 16:45:37

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/usmap.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pr … imates.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

Flu is caused by influenza virus of Class A, B and C. Flu spreads directly or indirectly from airborne droplets produced during sneezing or coughing.
Following are the symptoms of flu:

Fever
Malaise
Headache
Runny nose
Postnasal drip
Sneezing
Reduced sense of smell
Metallic taste in mouth
Chills
Cough
Body pain or muscle pain
Sore throat

Most of the time flu goes away without treatment. Taking medication can help relieve symptoms. Bed rest will help in faster recovery.

Self care:

Drink plenty of fluids
Take complete rest
Eat healthy foods
Practice good hygiene

Quaoar · 2020-03-19 17:02:57

louis wrote:

China's figure of 3245 is just like a flu. There were 3433 deaths in the USA from the H1N1 pandemic flu in 2009.
The USA was not put into lockdown in 2009.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_ … by_country
The experience in Italy does seem odd. You have one region with over 1600 deaths and one with no deaths at all. Lombardy is hugely affected.
You have to ask also why Italy has been hit so hard compared with other European countries. If this was a simple matter of jet airliner spread you'd probably expect the Netherlands, France and UK to be the hotspots. Also, is there something amiss with the treatment regime - I've seen photos from Italy of beds quite close together in group wards in temporary hospitals. Is that just a recipe for spreading viruses on the air from one patient to another? I don't know. Were the Chinese isolating individual patients more effectively?
Edited to add:
It Italy's death toll were translated into Chinese population figures, that would be a death toll of over 60,000. Of course that would still be quite small for country like China where probably something like 10 million people die every year.

Quaoar wrote:
tahanson43206 wrote:
For Quaoar re whether one person can make a difference ...
Avigan is just arrived in Italian hospitals. I hope it will work. Today we have lost 427 people, reaching 3405 death and surpassing China, whose death toll is 3245 (not exactly just like a flu, as many great minds still think).

For China is not just like a flu: 3245 is a limited toll compared to the overall population, but they reach it by completely locking down the entire country. If not they would have likely lost millions of people.

Lombardy is the Italian epicenter, now the virus is spreading to other regions, which fortunately were put in lock down before the arrive of the viral tsunami. In the next days we will see if this strategy works or not. If not we will see an outcome similar to Lombardy and it will be a complete disaster because southern regions has not a healthcare system as efficient as the lombard one.
Tomorrow the Army will patrol the street to enforce the lock down.

In Italy medical first aids are overcrowded even in good times, due to insufficient medical personal. So, when patient one (the man called Mattia whom I talked about in one of my previous post) went to the medical first aid of Codogno (near Milan) with a strong cough, he spent 36 hours waiting in a very crowded room, were he infected hundreds of other waiting patients, who in their turn infected other people.
That was the unfortunate series of events which made Lombardy the Italian epicenter.
Had Mattia tested immediately and isolated, this tragic outcome could've been avoided.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-19 17:08:18)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-19 17:09:28

repost:

GW Johnson wrote:

Hi Quaoar:
We here in the US are having panic-buying difficulties, because people have been lied to by their favorite internet and social media sources. The business model is getting paid by more clicks, without regard to the truth of what is posted. That's why so much bogus BS is out there. I posted an article debunking this crap on "exrocketman" today.
I hope you get through the troubles in Italy soon. We here are entering a sort of lockdown that is not really a shelter-in-place lockdown. But essentially the restaurants, theaters, bars, schools, and sporting events have been shut down in Texas, and across most of the US.
This will go on for a few to several weeks until the infection rate peaks and drops. Then we have to deal with the economic recession that is the inherent fallout from this. This is not a lot different from the 1918 flu pandemic, and it is nowhere near as bad as the 14th century Black Death pandemic. We'll get through this. All of us. Everywhere.
GW

Large gatherings are done for a while and those that seem to think that its a great time to go to the beach are not thinking this through.

louis · 2020-03-19 17:41:18

The story keeps changing. I have read lots of times that China ignored the coronavirus outbreak for about a month, certainly there was no lockdown during that period. Coronavirus is clearly highly infectious. Are we really supposed to believe that the subsequent lockdown was super-effective. Excuse my scepticism...

"Test, test, test" as recommended by WHO is a very effective way of crowding old people into hospital facilities where they can catch other viruses and die.

One guy blamed for the Lombardy outbreak! lol We know there were tens of thousands of people coming from China to Europe in the first weeks of this year and hundreds of them would be infected, and many of those would be effectively asymptomatic.

Quaoar wrote:

louis wrote:
China's figure of 3245 is just like a flu. There were 3433 deaths in the USA from the H1N1 pandemic flu in 2009.
The USA was not put into lockdown in 2009.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_ … by_country
The experience in Italy does seem odd. You have one region with over 1600 deaths and one with no deaths at all. Lombardy is hugely affected.
You have to ask also why Italy has been hit so hard compared with other European countries. If this was a simple matter of jet airliner spread you'd probably expect the Netherlands, France and UK to be the hotspots. Also, is there something amiss with the treatment regime - I've seen photos from Italy of beds quite close together in group wards in temporary hospitals. Is that just a recipe for spreading viruses on the air from one patient to another? I don't know. Were the Chinese isolating individual patients more effectively?
Edited to add:
It Italy's death toll were translated into Chinese population figures, that would be a death toll of over 60,000. Of course that would still be quite small for country like China where probably something like 10 million people die every year.

Quaoar wrote:
Avigan is just arrived in Italian hospitals. I hope it will work. Today we have lost 427 people, reaching 3405 death and surpassing China, whose death toll is 3245 (not exactly just like a flu, as many great minds still think).
For China is not just like a flu: 3245 is a limited toll compared to the overall population, but they reach it by completely locking down the entire country. If not they would have likely lost millions of people.
Lombardy is the Italian epicenter, now the virus is spreading to other regions, which fortunately were put in lock down before the arrive of the viral tsunami. In the next days we will see if this strategy works or not. If not we will see an outcome similar to Lombardy and it will be a complete disaster because southern regions has not a healthcare system as efficient as the lombard one.
Tomorrow the Army will patrol the street to enforce the lock down.
In Italy medical first aids are overcrowded even in good times, due to insufficient medical personal. So, when patient one (the man called Mattia whom I talked about in one of my previous post) went to the medical first aid of Codogno (near Milan) with a strong cough, he spent 36 hours waiting in a very crowded room, were he infected hundreds of other waiting patients, who in their turn infected other people.
That was the unfortunate series of events which made Lombardy the Italian epicenter.
Had Mattia tested immediately and isolated, this tragic outcome could've been avoided.

Quaoar · 2020-03-19 17:55:17

louis wrote:

The story keeps changing. I have read lots of times that China ignored the coronavirus outbreak for about a month, certainly there was no lockdown during that period. Coronavirus is clearly highly infectious. Are we really supposed to believe that the subsequent lockdown was super-effective. Excuse my scepticism...
"Test, test, test" as recommended by WHO is a very effective way of crowding old people into hospital facilities where they can catch other viruses and die.
One guy blamed for the Lombardy outbreak! lol We know there were tens of thousands of people coming from China to Europe in the first weeks of this year and hundreds of them would be infected, and many of those would be effectively asymptomatic.

Mattia was patien one. We don't know who infected him: may be a Chinese tourist or an Italian coming back from China. Who knows?
But put an infected man in a very crowded room with hundred of sick and debilitated people for 36 hour and figure out what mess can happen.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-19 17:56:49)

louis · 2020-03-19 18:24:32

Indeed - but that seems to be what they are doing in the temporary hospitals...putting people with respiratory diseases very close together...how is that not going to increase the death rate or the rate of worsening symptoms as people become infected with each other's viruses?

You can see how this works...in normal circumstances (before the Coronavirus scare) an aged person with a respiratory problem goes to see the GP (local doctor) and is then given antibiotics and told to go home...concerned family look after old person as much as possible. The person either gets better or dies. But now - aged person has to contact telephone line. Symptoms are confirmed as possible Coronavirus. Because of the person's age, it is determined they need to be seen my medical staff and tested. Medical staff are always going to play safe in these circumstances and so patient is immediately hospitalised...in hospital they are plunged into a frightening and demoralising environment of antiseptic decor and unidentifiable medics in masks. Their immunity is reduced, now isolated from their loving family in this horrible environment, and - very possibly - they are infected with other viruses ciruclating in the hospital...and so they die.

We need to get over our childish ideas of "hospital = good = get better". We need to think "hospital = concentration of risk = avoid if possible".

Quaoar wrote:

louis wrote:
The story keeps changing. I have read lots of times that China ignored the coronavirus outbreak for about a month, certainly there was no lockdown during that period. Coronavirus is clearly highly infectious. Are we really supposed to believe that the subsequent lockdown was super-effective. Excuse my scepticism...
"Test, test, test" as recommended by WHO is a very effective way of crowding old people into hospital facilities where they can catch other viruses and die.
One guy blamed for the Lombardy outbreak! lol We know there were tens of thousands of people coming from China to Europe in the first weeks of this year and hundreds of them would be infected, and many of those would be effectively asymptomatic.
Mattia was patien one. We don't know who infected him: may be a Chinese tourist or an Italian coming back from China. Who knows?
But put an infected man in a very crowded room with hundred of sick and debilitated people for 36 hour and figure out what mess can happen.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-19 18:44:10

GW blog

If your favorite internet and social media sources have been lying to you about coronavirus COVID-19, what else have they been lying to you about?

Its even worse when its done on TV aka news conference and blatently lie about call it the FLU that you can just go about normal business and you will get well...

5 mixed messages that have marred the Trump administration’s coronavirus response

Calling every virus and bacteria that causes the general symptoms from above is dumb as well since they are not all the same.

People go to the emergency rooms or hospitals because the GP want appointments for well care as they do not give care that results in fixing the problems that they have only giving the bandaid to make them feel better.

Medical staff at hospitals with regards to equipment plus supplies are now working the suspect patients in a ward where they are all considered to have the virus to make best use of those supplies. Putting the non virus people else where to better treat those not infected yet.

The list of risk factors are now being employed with regards to the treatment of the incoming.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-19 21:29:10

Critical equipment as in ventilators are going to be much needed for those in the worst of ways for breathing. NYC mayor tests Elon Musk's offer to make ventilators during the coronavirus crisis

Razer to donate 1 million surgical masks to healthcare workers fighting COVID-19

Other means to push the production of goods is The Defense Production Act of 1950, as Amended September 2009

Opening up the process to use any and all drugs currently made against the enemy...
FDA Urges Caution After Trump Says Malaria Drug Will Be Available to Coronavirus Patients ‘Almost

SpaceNut · 2020-03-19 22:33:27

What do you do when the store shelves are empty and you can not keep traveling around to find another that his it in stock? DIY How to Make Your Own Hand Sanitizer; Learn how to make your own hand sanitizer as a healthy alternative to commercial sanitizers that are drying, costly and contain 60 to 90 percent alcohol and Essential Oil Hand Sanitizing Gel; Keep the kids in tip-top shape with an essential hand sanitizing gel that does not use harmful chemicals.

Quaoar · 2020-03-20 05:50:51

louis wrote:

Indeed - but that seems to be what they are doing in the temporary hospitals...putting people with respiratory diseases very close together...how is that not going to increase the death rate or the rate of worsening symptoms as people become infected with each other's viruses?

That's the emergency. The ones who end up in field hospitals are those who would die anyway if not vented.
Sure, a regular and clean hospital is far better, but when people get sick in thousands healthcare systems go haywire.

louis wrote:

You can see how this works...in normal circumstances (before the Coronavirus scare) an aged person with a respiratory problem goes to see the GP (local doctor) and is then given antibiotics and told to go home...concerned family look after old person as much as possible. The person either gets better or dies. But now - aged person has to contact telephone line. Symptoms are confirmed as possible Coronavirus. Because of the person's age, it is determined they need to be seen my medical staff and tested. Medical staff are always going to play safe in these circumstances and so patient is immediately hospitalised...in hospital they are plunged into a frightening and demoralising environment of antiseptic decor and unidentifiable medics in masks. Their immunity is reduced, now isolated from their loving family in this horrible environment, and - very possibly - they are infected with other viruses ciruclating in the hospital...and so they die.
We need to get over our childish ideas of "hospital = good = get better". We need to think "hospital = concentration of risk = avoid if possible".

In fact, it's better to test suspected cases at their home.
Here in Italy there are just some people who pretend to be medical personal in charge of test and goes door-to-door to old people to rob them. I think those jackals should face the firing squad.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-20 12:01:58)

Quaoar · 2020-03-20 06:23:58

The pandemic has broken out even in Spain, with the epicenter in Madrid.
Today I have red they lost more than a thousand people.
It seems to me to see again the same movie. They are almost ten days behind us.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-20 12:02:26)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-20 06:33:42

Speaking of the other part of American that can not read or speak English aka american After pressure, Trump coronavirus guide is in Spanish on CDC, White House sites That means we need them in German, French, Italian ect....so how United is that.....

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