2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

SpaceNut · 2020-03-16 19:51:43

Thank you Quaoar for the history lesson on immigration elements and how its changed.
The fact or lack there in for nations cooperating is still evident.

The state I live in is sort of tiny in comparison to others in the US but even its Governor has decided to have the schools closed for 3 weeks and could make it quite a bit longer depending on how the virus continues to spread.

Each state has been basically told to fend for thineself for how and what they need to do. Which in cludes building up of hospital equipment respirators which will be greatly needed for the sick as required.

So states have set addendance levels in a single location as well as recogmending distances that you should keep between you and others.

Restaraunts and bars are being ordered closed and while food stores are open they are quickly running out of many items in the histeria along with those trying to make a buck by buying up items for later resale with price gouging for those that are dispair for the items.

Convience stores are taping off food items and must request the ready to eat be handed to them from the protected areas and even the single coffee creamers have been pulled from the open for the customer to grab for now.

They are also stepping up cleaning of counter tops and serving areas and can not have any seating for customers to enjoy there purchases at in the stores any longer.

one stop all states for information on the corona virus

SpaceNut · 2020-03-16 20:26:03

The CDC is usually the ones that we would see finding the way forward from such pandemic but it seems that they have slid a bit from the top rung.. CDC reports its 1st employees tests positive for coronavirus

kbd512 · 2020-03-17 04:15:23

We have outbreaks like this because we still have poor to non-existent sanitation and health care standards in many parts of the world, along with dictatorships- politics unimportant, who care more about the appearance of "control" than they do about their own countrymen. At this point, it doesn't really matter where people came from or how they greet each other. Blaming the Chinese people living in Italy, or people kissing each other- a sign of love for one another, is akin to stopping to wag your finger at the power company in California when your entire neighborhood, the forest around it, and even the road you're driving on, is on fire. It's an exercise in futility and an utter waste of whatever time you have remaining.

You know what really has me scratching my head...

There is precisely zero mass hysteria over hepatitis and tuberculosis, yet those two diseases kill as many people every single day as coronavirus has managed to kill over several months and nobody bats an eye over that fact and all those dead bodies would be what I'd call "proof positive" that we're not even close to "flattening the curve" or whatever other euphemism we've taken to using for having some effect on the spread of a disease. Apart from the number of elderly and immunocompromised people this latest little nasty has killed, what else is so special about COVID-19? Is it shocking to people to learn that damn near anything can kill someone who's 80 years old or 8 months old? When did that become news? Is this little reminder of what life was like for the average person before the industrial revolution really that scary?

My grandmother gave birth to 8 children. She lived in a time before the polio vaccine ever existed and worked as a nurse in Chicago at the time of that epidemic. She smoked a pack a day for longer than I've been alive. She bled to death internally after falling and breaking her hip in her mid-80's. Many years earlier, her husband bled to death internally after eating Thanksgiving dinner. He was shot in the head in Korea and also broke his spine there, but was suffering from severe Parkinson's symptoms at the time of his death. After living through all of that, Thanksgiving dinner finally did him in. Nobody who was born is leaving this world, nor any other we may venture to, alive. Sooner or later, there's only one possible outcome. You can work yourself up into a frenzy over that fact or you can face reality with your chin up and a smile on your face and carry on as best you can. Nobody who has ever served in the military or has lived to the age of 40 should be living under any illusion that they're going to live forever. I've seen enough bodies to know for damn sure that I'm not.

I'm going to continue working for as long as I'm counted amongst the living, I'm going to love my family, and whenever my last day comes I'm going to remember the good times that I had and choose to leave the bad memories in the past where they belong. I suggest others do the same with whatever time they have and stop worrying about things they have no control over. You only have control over how you respond to other people and events, so if you need something to control to make it seem as if you're doing something constructive, whether you are or aren't, then I'd humbly suggest that you start there.

Quaoar · 2020-03-17 05:56:05

SpaceNut wrote:

Restaraunts and bars are being ordered closed and while food stores are open they are quickly running out of many items in the histeria along with those trying to make a buck by buying up items for later resale with price gouging for those that are dispair for the items.
one stop all states for information on the corona virus

In Italy, hoarding food and commodities in time of calamity to resell at higher price is a very serious crime, for which one can be jailed for up to 21 years.

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-17 07:49:34

As an update to my earlier post about Britain planning to try an unusual (do nothing) strategy for dealing with the virus, today's Yahoo feed contains an article reporting that Mr. Johnson has been persuaded to adopt what is now seen as the best strategy to slow the spread of the virus.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/uk-abandoned … 50623.html

Even if everyone in Britain adheres to the new policy, which seems possible due to the relatively disciplined nature of the population, the health care system is likely to be overwhelmed at the peak of the event.

In the United States, a well known analyst pointed out the weakness of the capitalist system of medical care we have developed here. The observation was that the private system is optimized for profit, so every medical facility is squeezed to remove all unneeded capability from the facility. I thought this analysis was quite reasonable. The analyst was participating in a discussion of why we have no national capability to absorb a medical shock, such as would be caused by a natural disaster or potentially even a manmade disaster. There is simply no profit in building facilities and stockpiles which would be needed in an emergency. Only a government can "afford" to allocate resources for such a purpose.

Another analyst on another program made a similar observation about the British health system, which is at a disadvantage (I gather) because it has been starved for funds in recent years as the various governments have tried to deal with the broad range of challenges faced by a society of that scale.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-17 16:22:15

political now here in The Italy China connection corona virus

Let the finger pointing and blame games continue over there....

SpaceNut · 2020-03-17 18:30:40

We have gotten to the state of shelter in place in some of the large cities within the US now. California after the Bay Area’s “shelter in place” order effectively bans nonessential travel “on foot, bicycle, scooter, automobile or public transit,” according to the San Francisco Chronicle. As the numbers climb more steps will be needed to slow the curve of new cases of the virus in the coming days and months.

The local convience stores are now protecting common areas with hourly disinfecting of surfaces and putting the cups plus lids behind the counter for the gloved cashers.

The number of confirmed COVID-19 cases surpassed 5,000 in the United States on Tuesday, increasing fivefold over seven days as states ramp up testing and the new flu-like coronavirus sweeps across the country. Across the country, the virus has infected more than 5,145 and killed at least 91 people as of noon Tuesday. With reports that the US now has cases in all 50 states. Globally, the virus has infected more than 189,386 people and killed at least 7,504.

Store images of empty shelves are now becoming the norm...
BB11gWLR.img?h=373&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=t&l=f&x=343&y=405

So what do you do if your the business owner thats going slowly under from the corona virus? New Jersey small businesses get creative to stay afloat during virus lockdown or you decide to make lemonade with all of those lemons which you are not selling... Quarantine Cakes Are Helping Save This Bakery's Business During Coronavirus Outbreak Maybe your sit in an eat area is closed but the drive through is stretched around the block to fill the food needs of the customers that have come as they need to eat...

Quaoar · 2020-03-18 07:43:06

tahanson43206 wrote:

As an update to my earlier post about Britain planning to try an unusual (do nothing) strategy for dealing with the virus, today's Yahoo feed contains an article reporting that Mr. Johnson has been persuaded to adopt what is now seen as the best strategy to slow the spread of the virus.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/uk-abandoned … 50623.html
Even if everyone in Britain adheres to the new policy, which seems possible due to the relatively disciplined nature of the population, the health care system is likely to be overwhelmed at the peak of the event.

Wise decision: statistics said that 81% of infected people has a mild disease, 14% develop a severe disease with interstitial pneumonia and need to be be intubated and mechanically ventilated to survive, 5% develop a critical disease with pneumonia and multiple organ failure.
So given GB has 66.7 million of people, if 50% of them will be infected and 19% of them will develop severe or critical disease, they will need 6.3 million of ICU beds with ventilator.
But they don't have them. So this hazardous strategy may potentially cause 6 million of death, which is almost the same toll of the Holocaust...

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-18 07:45:08)

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-18 10:24:36

For Quaoar re #108 and topic in general

I've been thinking of you and your countrymen as we follow blindly behind you and so many others.

Here is a ray of hope that might be worth considering for the part of your population not yet infected. The treatment described was approved for ordinary flu, and it is apparently effective with this new virus if given ** early ** enough.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/japanese-flu … 20934.html

(th)

Quaoar · 2020-03-18 11:12:20

tahanson43206 wrote:

For Quaoar re #108 and topic in general
I've been thinking of you and your countrymen as we follow blindly behind you and so many others.
Here is a ray of hope that might be worth considering for the part of your population not yet infected. The treatment described was approved for ordinary flu, and it is apparently effective with this new virus if given ** early ** enough.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/japanese-flu … 20934.html
(th)

I'm very sorry to see the same bad things starting in other countries. It's a disaster waiting to happen, so what's the problem for politicians to give a shelter at home order before the breaking out and not after?
Science and common sense suggest that it's easier to control an epidemic whit few cases than thousands.

I have red about favipiravir (commercial name Avigan). Even if it is not so effective in the most critical case, it helps to eradicate the virus more quickly, so it's a good weapon in this war. The problem will be the large scale availability and distribution of this drug.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-18 14:07:50)

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-18 12:09:29

For Quaoar re #110 and topic in general

Can "Avigan" be licensed for manufacture in Italy? Can a citizen such as yourself cause that to happen?

I am impressed to see by your reply that you were already aware of the benefits of this treatment. My understanding is it has already been approved for use in dealing with flu, so approval for an emergency such as the current one should (hopefully) flow more quickly.

Edit#1: Uh oh!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal … SKBN215025

Edit#2:

As a follow up to an earlier post about use of electron microscopes to create images of the Corona Virus, I wrote to Hitachi. I don't expect a reply but will post any that might arrive.

By any chance can your electron microscopes by used to rapidly identify the Corona Virus? An article about the Corona Virus showed images from electron microscopes provided by a US government agency. As I understand the problem faced by the world today, tests using chemistry are in short supply, and they take hours to perform the reactions needed.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-03-18 13:24:56)

Quaoar · 2020-03-18 13:57:22

tahanson43206 wrote:

For Quaoar re #110 and topic in general
Can "Avigan" be licensed for manufacture in Italy? Can a citizen such as yourself cause that to happen?
I am impressed to see by your reply that you were already aware of the benefits of this treatment. My understanding is it has already been approved for use in dealing with flu, so approval for an emergency such as the current one should (hopefully) flow more quickly.
Edit#1: Uh oh!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal … SKBN215025
Edit#2:
As a follow up to an earlier post about use of electron microscopes to create images of the Corona Virus, I wrote to Hitachi. I don't expect a reply but will post any that might arrive.
By any chance can your electron microscopes by used to rapidly identify the Corona Virus? An article about the Corona Virus showed images from electron microscopes provided by a US government agency. As I understand the problem faced by the world today, tests using chemistry are in short supply, and they take hours to perform the reactions needed.
(th)

As I'm writing this post, Avigan has just been licensed to China and has just put in mass production, so I see no reason to not do the same in our country. Italy has many pharmaceutical company that under a good direction can produce and distribute this new drug.

The problem might be the Italian bureaucracy, which is awful and now works even very slow because most part of offices are closed. But the Premier, in emergency, has the power to bypass bureaucracy and issue a decree to authorize the use of this new drug.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-18 14:06:03)

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-18 16:04:08

For Quaoar re #112

Citizens of the United States have the ridiculous idea they might be able to communicate with the country's leaders. In practice this does not work, because of the inevitable fact of hierarchy of any system of government.

Despite that obvious reality, citizens here keep trying.

Thus, I am hopeful that you may be able to influence a decision by the government of Italy to license manufacture of Avigan as soon as possible.

In our case, the process starts with a citizen contacting the offices of the local congressperson (best bet) and the offices of the two state Senators (almost always hopeless). I'd like to encourage you to give whatever the Italian equivalent process may be a try. You will surely fail, but please let us know the stages of the failure. I can only speak for myself (of course) but I will celebrate your tilt against the windmills of Italian bureaucracy!

(th)

Terraformer · 2020-03-18 16:37:12

But they don't have them. So this hazardous strategy may potentially cause 6 million of death, which is almost the same toll of the Holocaust...

Well, the Holocaust was 11 million, but yes, it's a pretty big death toll we're talking about. Though only ~5% need intubation - 15% 'just' need supplemental oxygen.

The schools are going to be shut from Friday, except for vulnerable children and the children of critical workers - police officers, health workers, delivery drivers etc.

Our town council is moving to meetings using Zoom. That will be interesting. We're about to see a massive parallel experiment in online governance.

Quaoar · 2020-03-18 17:15:27

tahanson43206 wrote:

For Quaoar re #112
Citizens of the United States have the ridiculous idea they might be able to communicate with the country's leaders. In practice this does not work, because of the inevitable fact of hierarchy of any system of government.
Despite that obvious reality, citizens here keep trying.
Thus, I am hopeful that you may be able to influence a decision by the government of Italy to license manufacture of Avigan as soon as possible.
In our case, the process starts with a citizen contacting the offices of the local congressperson (best bet) and the offices of the two state Senators (almost always hopeless). I'd like to encourage you to give whatever the Italian equivalent process may be a try. You will surely fail, but please let us know the stages of the failure. I can only speak for myself (of course) but I will celebrate your tilt against the windmills of Italian bureaucracy!
(th)

I'm not able to do anything. But in these days, a medical team of Chinese expert arrived in Italy and they surely know about this drug and hopefully they will inform our politician about it.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-18 17:17:19

I have been hearing that the Ebola drugs did not work and patients did not stay free of the virus coming back for a second time reinfecting the individual once more. I wonder if any one has thought about using a mist tent with air aerosols that are used to kill the virus such that the person with in the tent to breath the mists which would allow for the chemical to reach within the lung where the virus is doing its damage. Spray the bedding just before you go to sleep so that you are inhaling the fumes all night long.

I was dismissed today along with all other individuals which are over 60 years of age as a means to protect us from getting it. This is an admin leave but its not known as to how long we will be told not to go to work. Tomorrow they will start telling others to go home that have family members that fit into other categories that would be devistating to them if it were brought into the home.

The government still has not passed anything to pay individuals or to grant cash or anyother method to give aid so as to not have more people losing every thing.

Quaoar · 2020-03-18 17:32:19

Terraformer wrote:

But they don't have them. So this hazardous strategy may potentially cause 6 million of death, which is almost the same toll of the Holocaust...
Well, the Holocaust was 11 million, but yes, it's a pretty big death toll we're talking about. Though only ~5% need intubation - 15% 'just' need supplemental oxygen.

It depends on the severity of pneumonia: in interstitial pneumonia the alveolar membrane become thicker and less permeable to oxygen. So less oxygen pass from alveoli to the capillary vessels. In mild cases an oxygen tank is enough, but often there is also a failure of type 2 pneumocytes, a kind of pulmonary cells producing pulmonary surfactant. Without surfactant, pulmonary alveoli collapse due to the surface tension of the water membrane that cover them: this is called ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome). In this case the patient has to be intubated and ventilated under positive pressure, otherwise his/her lungs collapse causing death.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-18 17:33:53)

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-18 17:47:52

For SpaceNut re #116

Best wishes for resilience for your family at this time.

You've told us in previous posts about various difficulties your family has come through. Hopefully you and they will make it through this one as well.

For Quaoar re #115 ... You might be able to help with even so little as a Letter to the Editor, if your community has such a thing.

Glad to hear the Chinese have come over to help. That is an indication (to me at least) the government of Italy has tried to maintain a positive relationship with China.

(th)

Quaoar · 2020-03-18 19:09:25

SpaceNut wrote:

I have been hearing that the Ebola drugs did not work and patients did not stay free of the virus coming back for a second time reinfecting the individual once more. I wonder if any one has thought about using a mist tent with air aerosols that are used to kill the virus such that the person with in the tent to breath the mists which would allow for the chemical to reach within the lung where the virus is doing its damage. Spray the bedding just before you go to sleep so that you are inhaling the fumes all night long.
I was dismissed today along with all other individuals which are over 60 years of age as a means to protect us from getting it. This is an admin leave but its not known as to how long we will be told not to go to work. Tomorrow they will start telling others to go home that have family members that fit into other categories that would be devistating to them if it were brought into the home.
The government still has not passed anything to pay individuals or to grant cash or anyother method to give aid so as to not have more people losing every thing.

I hope you and your family will be safe. My thoughts are with you.

Quaoar · 2020-03-18 19:13:29

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut re #116
Best wishes for resilience for your family at this time.
You've told us in previous posts about various difficulties your family has come through. Hopefully you and they will make it through this one as well.
For Quaoar re #115 ... You might be able to help with even so little as a Letter to the Editor, if your community has such a thing.
Glad to hear the Chinese have come over to help. That is an indication (to me at least) the government of Italy has tried to maintain a positive relationship with China.
(th)

Italy is in good term with China. I think this is not the right time for quarrels. We Humans have to find a solution all together.

Last edited by Quaoar (2020-03-18 19:13:56)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-18 19:34:56

The food, water, power and money are the main things to keep going when you stay nearly 70% plus time spent at home and go to get supplies as needed.

I have a small working refridgerator so fresh meats will be a problem since its not able to freeze. We survived the winter using the out doors cold to help keep our food frozen but now its getting warm and we will not be able to do that. Of course if a cheap freezer if found we will make use of that and hope that power stays stable during this what is going to be a long period of wait and see...

The first things that have gone up in price was the meats so this got a bit harder since supplies to stores are not coming due to the truckers not hauling product as they once were accross state lines. They have begun to grind up Sirloin as hamburger....$10 a lb., ya thats not happening...

Next problem will be clean water as the stores will dry up in time for what will be trucked in for the sale of it. I have Mars water that is undrinkable and not fit to use for washing without a fresh rinse water being used.

That said diets will need to change for what we can get for foods to eat in light that goods on the store shelves will be in high demand until this settles out.

The drive up places will still go as long as they can while other places to get food will most likely start limiting number of people that can enter so as to keep social distances and not just the quantities that one can get.

There is not eating in for the most part where one would normally be able to socialise over a coffee and or doughnut with friends.

louis · 2020-03-18 20:26:42

I'm coming to the view that we may be in the middle of one of the great mass hysterias of all time.

I base this on the following:

1. This video, which explains in large part how this hysteria may have taken root:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_AyuhbnPOI

Coronaviruses are not new and are always around in patients near death from respitory diseases - forming 5-15% of the virus load.

People don't die from "one" virus but from their inability (normally a result of age) to deal with the range of viruses infecting their lungs.

2. The extremely low death toll from Covid 19 in China. It has been implicated in 3300 deaths, the equivalent of about 170 in the UK or 850 in the USA. These are tiny numbers and you could probably attribute many of the deaths to other viruses just as well. About 600,000 people die in the UK every year. Even if 600 more died, that would just be a minor blip.

3. In China and South Korea the number of cases seem to levelled off after about a month.

Of course, it remains to be seen if this is indeed the end of the story and whether all countries follow this pattern, but if it is, then this will be one of the remarkable episodes of self-harm ever recorded, nation after nation destroying their economies...for what?

SpaceNut · 2020-03-18 21:32:27

Its not fake as At least 7 members of N.J. family contracted COVID-19 at a family gathering; 2 dead, 4 critical with 19 more relatives, including spouses and children, been tested for COVID-19 and are waiting for the results.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ … li=BBnb7Kz

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/personal … li=BBnbfcN

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ … li=BBnbcA1

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-18 21:40:14

For Louis re topic ...

In the past in this forum, I have watched as various members attempted to explain mathematical concepts to you. From my observation, all such attempts have failed.

It is possible you are simply unable to understand exponential progression. That is an affliction suffered by many humans, who manage to live out their lives without that ability, thanks to the many others who possess it.

This condition may be like color blindness, which I understand is a condition experienced by many people. A gent with this condition explained it to me when I was blithely going on about using colors in a computer display.

In your case, your comments about the risks of the current virus infestation pattern suggest you may simply be unable to understand the danger faced by global populations.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-18 22:19:13

For Quaoar re #120 and topic ...

You might be surprised what a single individual can do.

Here is a reply from Hitachi about their (relatively inexpensive) electron microscope.

I’m responding to your web inquiry below regarding imaging COVID-19 in an SEM. You can in fact image the Coronavirus with an electron microscope and a customer of ours did just that very recently and may very well be the government agency you’re referring to. You can find some details about this at the links below:
https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/n … ov2-images
https://www.niaid.nih.gov/research/scan … oscopy-sem
“By any chance can your electron microscopes by used to rapidly identify the Corona Virus? An article about the Corona Virus showed images from electron microscopes provided by a US government agency. As I understand the problem faced by the world today, tests using chemistry are in short supply, and they take hours to perform the reactions needed.”

If you are interested in contacting the company representative directly you can request that and I will send it to you privately. As a general matter, this forum does not promote particular company products. SpaceX is a notable exception.

(th)

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#101 2020-03-16 19:51:43

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#102 2020-03-16 20:26:03

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#103 2020-03-17 04:15:23

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#104 2020-03-17 05:56:05

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#105 2020-03-17 07:49:34

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#106 2020-03-17 16:22:15

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#107 2020-03-17 18:30:40

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#108 2020-03-18 07:43:06

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#109 2020-03-18 10:24:36

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#110 2020-03-18 11:12:20

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#111 2020-03-18 12:09:29

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#112 2020-03-18 13:57:22

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#113 2020-03-18 16:04:08

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#114 2020-03-18 16:37:12

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#115 2020-03-18 17:15:27

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#116 2020-03-18 17:17:19

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#117 2020-03-18 17:32:19

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#118 2020-03-18 17:47:52

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#119 2020-03-18 19:09:25

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#120 2020-03-18 19:13:29

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#121 2020-03-18 19:34:56

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#122 2020-03-18 20:26:42

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#123 2020-03-18 21:32:27

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#124 2020-03-18 21:40:14

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#125 2020-03-18 22:19:13

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

Board footer